[The Rumour Thread]

6 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Can we talk about the Meta Watch in a separate topic please?

Thanks

So I don't want to derail the conversation or suggest that it's not great you guys are using your time to moderate these forums but there was a discussion a few pages back about why TGA seemed to have slowed down and there was less chat.

 

There was a pretty interesting and completely rational/friendly discussion happening in this thread that is now shut down,which is a common occurrence, participants are always encouraged to make a new thread discussing the topic but it rarely happens. I appreciate that this is the "Rumours" thread but it's often used as the general chat thread, there aren't enough consistent rumours to keep this thread alive daily but in its place interesting discussion about all things Warhammer constantly pop up. Is it worth continually squashing these conversations in the hopes new threads that are never actually started will appear or should this just become the general/rumours thread or something to that effect?

 

Again I'm not here to dismiss the mods or take shots, I just know that this is the main thread I come to read and it's disheartening to constantly see interesting discussion squashed because it doesn't align with the thread title.

Edit: quick edit to say not everyone might feel this way and that's totally fair but for me it's been a frustration for awhile 

2nd edit: To clarify I specifically am referring to discussion being shut down for being off topic, the mods here are fantastic at shutting down arguments, people getting carried away and  bigoted language or discussion ❤️

[How literal do people adjudicate distances?]

Generally that's fine, you measure out the front models and any model where distance is crucial (maybe tagging an objective on a side model) then filling the back ranks behind. If the unit has shooting and the back ranks may be in a position where they could be out of range it's best to measure from the back ranks to the target and determine if that is less than the units move + range so you can confirm with your opponent it is possible.

 

E.g. my judicators shoot 18 and move 5 (23 in total), they are set up in 3 ranks. I measure the back ranks and find they are 22 away. I can now move my first rank 5 and eyeball the next 2 ranks with both myself and opponent comfortable that I am indeed in range.

 

 

Playing with intention is a really good habit to get into, being clear with your opponent about where your models are and the distances from one another, it makes the game much faster and cleaner

[Khorne unbinding on a 8 - D6 mortal wounds to the caster?]

1 hour ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

That makes sense. Presumably the same would be true for double 1 when casting then? The d3 MW could be taken by the unit, not just the high sentinel?

Still seems a bit janky to me - it's not like pink horrors where they're all wizards as long as the unit is a certain size, but I think your explanation shows the rules can be applied the same way.

Correct, miscast mortals are spread to whichever model the player wants 

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

Regarding lack of debate here (and other online forums, e.g., dakkadakka) and it indicating lack of interest in AoS or little to discuss, perhaps it's got something to do with the medium? You ever checked out AoS Discords? Buzzing. For example, there's an entire sub-thread dedicated to the particular list style of SCE I play. The chat never stops. 

This is just pure speculation but I get the impression online forums aren't something younger generations really engage with. 

This is what I was going to say. I don't think AoS is less popular recently I think TGA is. My local messenger group is pumping, discord is super popular, ever faction has its own WhatsApp and Facebook

[Khorne unbinding on a 8 - D6 mortal wounds to the caster?]

4 minutes ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

Thanks for pointing out the FAQ. That makes it slightly clearer.

I think the wording of the Khorne ability would still mean that the caster (high sentinel) would take the first lot of wounds, so in my example it would be the high sentinel plus 5 others. The Khorne ability specifically says it targets the caster. You would then apply the core rules as per the FAQ, I think.

So maybe it's still not 100% clear...

No it's still clear, the ruling is around how you distribute wounds to units with a Wizard in them, while the high sentinel is the wizard/caster the spell is still cast by that unit because the high sentinel is part of that unit. It's weird but unless the rule stated that the model that cast the spell must take the wounds you can spread them as you please.

 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

12 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

 

Time to resolve the riddle... It is a tree

Sylvaneth in Lumineth confirmed

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Is this how argumentation works? Alright, let me try now!

yeah, I‘ve just played a 360 Person Tournament, and everyone was using Roos 🤦🏼‍♂️🤣

*facepalm*

 

Ganigumo showed you the statistics. 

"maybe local scene is not always representative of the global playerbase?"

 

Wow you really got me with my own point!

 

Either way we're moving away from what I originally pointed out. Ignoring wards has existed for 4 years, it's not worth getting up in arms over, especially when you've noted that you don't play anymore so you have 0% chance of running into anything with this rule.

[The Rumour Thread]

6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

you really need a metric for that, really? 
I've never even once seen (live) a player play bonesplitters, ever.

And I've never seen the Roos in play before. I also just played a 40 person tournament with 2 Bonesplitters and 2 Big wagh lists so maybe local scene is not always representative of the global playerbase?

[The Rumour Thread]

40 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It's the first time this ability appears on an actually popular unit. The rule was bad before, slapping it onto more Units makes matters worse. - AoS has been copying way too many rules from 40K anyways. Yet 40K is a prime example of how one should not write rules.

 

 

What metric are you using to measure that Lumineth roo riders are more popular than dreadscythe harridans, Sigvald and the entirety of bonesplitters? 

 

And ultimately there is no problem with this rule as long as it is used correctly but this is on an expensive unit with a short range attack that has fairly soft defense so it seems pretty well balanced to me. In fact almost every book that has come out has been pretty well balanced with good rules so maybe it's not worth screaming into the void, especially when you're not playing the game anyway

[The Rumour Thread]

21 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

LRL article and DOT article this week, almost definitely up for Pre Order next weekend!!

Who knows, with the Ogor article last week we may have a triple threat release.

Tomorrow's article is going to be interesting, if it's gargants we might see them all arrive same time?

 

Although I think more likely just tzeentch and Lumineth 

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

So we are starting the 40K arms-race of idiocity it seems: Bullets that ignore wards. Wards that ignore Bullets that ignore Warding effects. Bullets that ignore effects that ignore this bullet’s ignoration of wards and so on.

 

I really don’t miss playing AoS.

No? There have been abilities that ignore wards long before this one, this is no indication that we're suddenly getting wards that negate ward negation.

 

I'm actually really confused why people are so up in arms about this rule other than maybe that it is on Lumineth and there is always severe amounts of panic around anything Lumineth does.

[Khorne unbinding on a 8 - D6 mortal wounds to the caster?]

It's been FAQ'd. 19.4

Q: Some effects inflict damage that can only be allocated to Wizards. Can you explain how such damage is allocated to a unit that is not a Wizard but includes models that are Wizards, e.g. a High Warden from a unit of Vanari Auralan Wardens?

A: The wounds are allocated to the unit as normal (core rules, 14.1)

 

So it's the third option. The unit would take 6 wounds however they can be allocated to any models in the unit

[Treelord Lash and Tangle ability...does an enemy unit get to Pile-In at the end of the turn?]

So to make it clearer because you seem to have missed my point.

 

If effected by this ability you do not pile in at all. "Until the end of the turn" is how long the effect lasts, it is not moving the action to a different part of the turn.

 

"Until the end of the turn" is used on multiple rules and abilities to determine the length of time the specific effect lasts. It is a measurement of time and it's ridiculous to think that this single rules is somehow different.

 

Also I never once suggested that the end of turn means the turn is over per se. There is still some housekeeping and the occasional ability that can take effect but the end of the turn is still the end of the turn, it's the last part before the start of the next turn and therefore a great place for abilities to end. The fact you decided I don't know the end of turn exists is a weird misreading of what I wrote and is concerning because you are severely misreading this rule as well.

Edit: Added to this your logic would suggest the Kruleboyz Nasty Hex spell means opponent move their ward rolls to the end of the turn but what happens between their? I do damage, you remove models and at the end of the turn you roll wards and bring models back?

 

Same with Seraphons Celestial harmony, do you think it moves battleshock tests to the start of your next hero phase? So a unit could conceivably roll 3 stored battleshock rolls in a hero phase?

 

You're reading it wrong, you cant pile in during the end of turn unless you have an ability that lets you but this doesn't. It's a simple rule that prevents you pileing in, that's all.

 

[Treelord Lash and Tangle ability...does an enemy unit get to Pile-In at the end of the turn?]

That seems like the wrong reading to me.

You can't pile in until the end of the turn means you are unable to make pile in moves, once the game state has moved onto the end of the turn effected units are once again able to pile in when able. End of the turn is how long the effect lasts, it's a qualifier used across the entire game. Almost all buffs and debuffs say X unit is buffed/debuffed until end of turn/next hero phase, end of phase etc. Why would this be the only ability that acts differently to this phrasing?

So RAW seems pretty clear, they have a set convention for the effect than the length of time the effect lasts.

RAI is not a great way to measure anything but to me the rules are clearly designed to work together so I would say it's definitely RAI but who care what randoms think the intention is.

 

Either way the unit effected cannot pile in that turn, at the end of the turn the debuffs turns off and the effected unit is able to pile in during combat next turn or during any other phase it has the ability to do so.

[Treelord Lash and Tangle ability...does an enemy unit get to Pile-In at the end of the turn?]

Edit. Misread question 

-------_---------------------------------

Are you suggesting because the ability prevents pile in during combat that the units move their pile in to the end of the turn?

[Need help with basic Stormcast tactics]

10 hours ago, Battlebeard said:

Thanks for all the info! I've got another game next week, I'll give that list a try!

EDIT: Sorry one more question, you mention that the Chariot is tanky but it only has 12 wounds, if my maths are right six properly buffed Boltboyz will do 11 mortal wounds on average via unleash hell, so my opponent only needs to roll slightly above average to kill it on the way in? Would it be best to suicide the Prosecutors to eat the overwatch if I have to use the Castigators to clear the screen?

Absolutely! If you can get the prosecutors there it's worth using them to eat the overwatch. 

It's worth noting though that you shouldn't eat shots from 6 bolt Boyz though. The prosecutors have a little shooting, the chariot does too, if the knight judicator works it can kill one and most importantly the mortal wounds from the chariots charge happen before the boltboyz shoot so that should also kill a couple. Again it might be worth using the dragons to snipe the boltboyz with shooting even if they engage a different unit in combat

[Need help with basic Stormcast tactics]

Ok so boltboyz are really the biggest threat in that army so the quicker you can get them out the better. Because he can't be shot outside of 12 you have to create your opening with movement.

 

Put units in reserve, it prevents your opponent from just moving his units freely. However don't rely on deep striking and charging, the best units to deepstrike tend to be shooting units to give them a better angle or range for shooting, or cheap units for choking the battlefield and taking objectives that it doesn't matter if they die.

Use ranges. His boltboyz his hard but the 3 shot mode has a max range of 17" (12 range +5 move) so keep your dragons/chariot/yndrasta 17.1 inches away so on your next turn they can move across the board and shoot/charge the unit

Use your cheap units to screen his monsters out. Redeemer's are suprisingly tanky and opponents that don't respect them can be punished.

Stormcast don't have as many rules, tricks or abilities as most other factions but we do have solid warscrolls with good damage so positioning is key.

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Yndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)*
Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
5 x Vindictors (130)**
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
3 x Evocators on Celestial Dracolines (280)*
2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Warblade
1 x Stormstrike Chariot (165)*
6 x Castigators (210)*
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (110)**
*Battle Regiment
**Redemption Brotherhood
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
Drops: 2
 

 

 

I've put a basic list in the spoilers for you. I'm not saying it's the best possible list with your models but it should be fun and let you compete with your friend.

 

Use the Castigators to screen out, drop them from the sky, is he lets you get within 12 of the boltboyz or shaman shoot them. If not use them to clear screens for charging units, chip his monsters.

Use your ranges to move the dragons into shooting range of the boltboyz, try to engineer a charge into the boltboyz with the chariot, it's super tanky and will kill a couple from the impact hits

Use the liberators and prosecutors to block your opponents charges and steal objectives

The knight judicator can be used as a bunker buster, drop his mortal wound bomb into your opponent s castle, it doesn't require line of site on the units it hits with gaze of Sigmar

Hammers of Sigmar so try to keep units in range of objectives for the ward save, it will go some way to softening mortal wound damage

 

 

 

 

[Need help with basic Stormcast tactics]

What's your list? There's not one list or one way to play stormcast so developing tactics around what you're playing is key.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

I've got 2 tournaments coming up end of this month and start of next. Running something like this:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Divine Light

Battleline
4 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (460)*
- Reinforced x 1
4 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (460)*
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Judicators with Boltstorm Crossbows (190)*

Units
3 x Aetherwings (65)*
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)*
3 x The Farstriders (90)**
3 x Castigators (105)**
6 x Gryph-Hounds (110)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Redemption Brotherhood

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
Drops: 2

 

I'm enjoying it so far, packs a punch, lots of versatility, plays well into everything so far 

 

I also tried a 12 fulminators list last night and I'm thoroughly whelmed, it's not terrible but it's (unsurprisingly) one dimensional 

 

 

 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

Yeh that's what they do most games, it's not a trick you set up per se, but it's always worth remembering that gryph-hounds have 25 inches of movement on a 7" charge because your opponent will definitely not realise.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

8 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Had my first game with the new GHB today. It was very fun, we played Prize of Gallet and at least for that battleplan I think the double turn is "solved" because going second is so good that I chose (or would have chosen when I lost the priority roll) to go second every turn rather than double my opponent, except on round 5.

Anyway, this is the Stormcast section, so some observations:

I forget who was talking up Gryph Hounds a while ago but I am inclined to agree after one game with them. They made a nice screen, are not Galletian Veterans, and 25 attacks is nothing to sniff at, even if they're on 3s and 4s with no rend. The retreat messed up my opponent's otherwise very nicely calculated attack order. The temptation to put them in Bounty Hunters just because of the sheer volume of 1 damage attacks is actually quite high.

 

YES, YES!! Another gryph-hounds believer! Now you need to pull off the pro move of moving the unit 9" down the battlefield, charge, pile 3 and then retreat onto an objective your opponent previously thought was safe. 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

4 hours ago, lare2 said:

Trying to take advantage of Lauchon before he's inevitably nerfed. It might be the booze so bear with me:

 - Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals
     - Army Type: Scions of the Storm
     - Subfaction: Hallowed Knights 
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Knight-Incantor (125)**
     - Spells: Celestial Blades
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
     - Celestine Hammer
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Mount Traits: Celestial Instincts
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
Lord-Relictor (145)***
     - Artefacts of Power: Mirrorshield
     - Prayers: Bless Weapons 
Lord-Castellant (155)***
Gardus Steel Soul (150)***
BATTLELINE
Liberators (115)*
     - Liberator-Prime
     - Grandweapon
     - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield
Liberators (115)*
     - Liberator-Prime
     - Grandweapon
     - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield
Liberators (115)*
     - Liberator-Prime
     - Grandweapon
     - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield
OTHER
Aetherwings (65)**
Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)**
Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)**
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Lauchon the Soulseeker (30)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Expert Conquerors
**Battle Regiment
***Command Entourage
     - Magnificent

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

That there should put the Stardrake on potentially 5+ ward (Gardus), +4 to save (AOD, Castellant, Mystic Shield [not really gonna get though as KI will be casting Lauchon],  Finest Hour), -1 to wound (MoCM), exploding 6's (Bless Weapons), +1 to damage (Flaming Weapon), retreat and charge (Celestial Instincts)... and, importantly, he can now teleport and move (Lauchon).

Load it up and throw it in first turn. It's not going anywhere fast and it'll savage a lot, especially considering there's no defence against monsters nowadays. Plus there's no worry about giving away extra VP.

A lot of moving parts but they're not unreasonable. 

It's a cool list but unfortunately the Stardrake can't use Lauchon, it's base is too big

[NPE (Negative Play Experience) in Age of Sigmar]

I think a lot of NPE is overstated or at least I don't find issues with it.

Every army (or almost every) has their own tricks and abilities that are unique to them and that's what I like. Every army is a different puzzle to solve, you can't just do the same thing every time and expect the same result.

 

Of course that can fall by the wayside a bit when you have unbalanced army strengths but for the most part there is really nothing I find to be NPE.

 

The closest I've gotten to feelings of NPE is verse Gargants when they were the top army for no reason other than they didn't feel as much like a puzzle. I knew how to beat them wether I could not not.

 

For the record I've played a lot of game verse nurgle, lumineth etc. and never not enjoyed it

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

So if sequitors go down in points do they suddenly become good in this meta?

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

43 minutes ago, Fuxxx said:

So what do you think about the changes in Battleline strength with the newest ghb? Vindictors can still hit in two ranks but - the one more rank to fight only applies to models that are within 1/2 an inch of a model that is within half an inch to an enemy. If I'm not mistaken that means liberators, vanquishers, retributors... All that 1 inch range stuff hugely profits while the 2 inch models don't gain anything, right?

Correct it does nothing for Vindictors.

I think we're going to struggle into this meta a little more, we have more pieces for killing big monsters than hordes and I'm not sure we benefit hugely from the battleline improvement s but it will be interesting to see what we can change, Maybe an ally has pieces we can use?