Ganigumo
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Posts posted by Ganigumo
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16 hours ago, Jabbuk said:
Hey guys, here's a quick question. I remember before our new book, that building brutes was a no-brainer. You build them with Choppas in groups of 5 with the boss Klaw.
Now that everything has changed with the new book for Brutes and that this configuration is less useful than let's say, a group of 10 with Gore-Hackas, I'm looking for ways to make my brutes useful and sometimes (only sometimes) just field them as a group of 10 w/hackas but they all have Choppas on
You guys have any ideas to bash them into Gore-Hackas? Or is the only solution to buy 2 other kits? (And since their warscroll is meh, I don't see this as a good investment)
The math isn't as bad as it looks for units of 10. If you can get 5 within 1" the choppa variant will get 16 attacks, and the hackas will get 21. This looks bad, but once you lose 2 models it evens out, or if you can get one more brute in the difference is only 1 attack.
Something to keep in mind is gore-choppas have 2" range so they can still attack over your dual choppa brutes.
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21 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said:
I am looking for a new army and thought about maybe picking up Tzeentch. I love the spell of the Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore. Is he worth anything or is he just too expensive for a level 1 wizard?
I'm gonna throw out a recommendation for paradoxical shield on the sorc lord on manticore.
The sorc lord can give himself rerolls to save rolls with oracular visions.
Paradixical shield adds 2 to your save but you must reroll successful save rolls.
Since modifiers are applied after rerolls the sorc lord will succeed on a roll of 2 or 3 (vs no rend) then reroll everything succeeding on a 2+.
The actual math is something like:
89% chance to save vs no rend
72% chance vs 1 rend
50% chance vs 2 rend
You don't get any mortal protection but its an interesting combo.
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In my opinion picking an army that you like from a lore/model perspective is pretty important, as well as a playstyle one.
That said I'll throw out a recommendation for Beastclaw raiders specifically (as part of the Ogor Mawtribe battletome). Stonehorns might get hit with a bit of a nerf, but the Frostlord on Stonehorn is an absolute unit, and BCR are quite fast in general, since they benefit from the "hungry" rule giving them a bit more move than is on the warscroll. You also get a bit of deepstriking if you want to run a frostbrow hunter with some cats. BCR are pretty weak as far as magic goes, but you can fit a slaughtermaster into a BCR list pretty easily.
Additionally at the moment you can build a pretty good 2k point army out of 3 Start Collecting: Beastclaw Raiders. This list is pretty easy to build out of as well, opinions on mournfang vary, but since you have an extra battleline, and the battalion only requires 2 units you could cut a unit, drop a unit to 2, etc. A slaughtermaster costs the same as 2 mournfang as well so that becomes an easy upgrade.
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of Beasts
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Gargant Hackers
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
Battalions
Eurlbad (140)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
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10 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Both spells do average 6 mortal wounds. Kairos falls off more, but kairos gets a spawn. LoC is either a way better model to have in melee or about the same if you combine the magic and ranged profiles. As mind you the shooting attack is basicly a bonus spell with longer range (range+movement).
Kairos Vs LoC is really this
Spells ~= Loc 48/Kairos 52
-Loc gets 2 spells + rods (rod against a 4+ save is better than your average spell doing about 2.... damage. Signature Spell with command ability LoC is more consistant.
-Kairs actualy gets 3 spells which Matters for summoning, and his spell can spawn a Chaos Spawn which has powerful utility. Signature spell CAN be harder to cast. Spell falls off sharper when taking damage.
Melee ~= LoC50/Kairos 50
-LoC can be kitted to do really well in melee. Transumutation, agenda, and destiny dice can let you auto kill key targets at the end of the game. A very powerful peice and really strong for missions where the hero must take objectives. Letting you force a kill. REQUIRES SWORD.
-KaIros otherwise they are pretty much about the same thing as making the LoC powerful takes that rod attack which lets you have that fake magic attack for above.
Utility. Loc 60/Kairos 40
-LoC's command ability in our army is very strong. We have a lot of higher casting value spells that are borderline unrealistic with our casting steroids. It's just +1 top cast, but it hits all daemon units in range for all of thier spells the range is huge. Even for units of pinks that can get spread out, only 1 casting pink needs to be in range to get the bonus as 1 model counts as the wizard for the spell. LoC +gaunt summoner make arcane suggestion realistic all game which can be quite big for our army. And his own buff make his spell easier to cast and more reliable than kairos.
-Kairos gets a force d6 which can be good for keeping his spell relative, or keeping some one a live. Also get for making key charges. Along side his Chaos Spawn which is pretty good, but often won't stop anything that really matters and will likely die the turn he is cast. This isn't always the case and he can come in clutch, but when i've messed with it, it's always felt useless.
They both have thier place and are important in different list. WIth heavy wizard investment i like the LoC. I also like the LoC in guild. Sure you get more for the command ability later, but getting that first one out is important, and the bonus to cast on multiple units of pinks is big. Even with casting rerolls from blue scribes or host you that +1 one is more than clutch with a reroll, and the bonus armor save fits the LoC like a glove. Down side in host is Host is CP hungry as you don't have none CP protection for pinks. The rod/sword more than makes up for not having the 3rd spell as most spell do an average of 2 or 3 mortal wounds, but then you have to think that's before factoring the chance to fell the spell. Where as the rod just gives you that 2 damage or the sword can give you 6-9 from your destiny pool. He's gonna be in Eternal Conflag = Guild of Summoners> Host>>>>>everything else.
Kairos is all about himself, and wants to slot into a list that is already full of steroid to help him out. He sucks with a 2nd LoC so i'd say he sucks in guild. You also don't want him in eternal conflag because you want change host there. You'll love him in Host though as the reroll cast goes a long way when given to him, but then you have to put the command trait and artifact on some one small and squishy to follow him around. Unlike the LoC though you aren't having the LoC chugging your CP. Kairos wants Host=blue scribes>>>>>>>>>everything else.
They both are pretty good and have a lot of work to get thier points. Both snipe characters like crazy and cost an extra 70pts for the spell portal they will mandate. But one will force you down a path, as the LoC wants CP and people to buff. Where Kairos is plug and play, but gets a lot better with blue scribes or host.
If you aren't sold on kairos don't use him. If you have a place in your army for the LoC to shine then put him in there. Both have well designed rules that make it a real choice.
Kairo's spell does a flat 6 damage at his highest bracket. Sure the LoC will do about 6 on average but kairos removes the variability which has its value.
Unless you're using a CP to get a casting bonus both cast their spells on a 4+, since the normal LoC would need either a 4 or a 3 +1.
Kairos fits well into a more arcanite themed list as well, since the command ability won't affect arcanite wizards (like acolytes) so I think in an arcanite based guild of summoners list he edges out a normal LoC.
That forced die can be used on your opponents rolls too, so you can disrupt a key charge or save.
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19 hours ago, backslide said:
Can someone sell me on fateweaver?
I admit I'm far more likely to use him in legion of chaos ascendant than tzeentch
Unless you have a spare artifact or need to take a normal lord of change to meet a battalion requirement I think Kairos really outshines the normal LoC.
For 20 points more than a lord of change Kairos can cast an extra spell, can change a d6 once per game (yours or your opponents), knows all the warscroll spells of friendly wizards within 18, and has more consistent damage on his spell, with the highest bracket doing a flat 6 damage. You only lose out on the command ability and the shooting attack. Kairo's spell will also drop a chaos spawn IN COMBAT with the unit if any models were slain. 6 mortals with a spell portal can snipe a lot of characters, and getting a chaos spawn within 3" of the unit has a lot of practical applications. Very important is the fact that the chaos spawn is dropped in the hero phase, which means it can retreat if its in combat, and get in the way, or move to harass/charge something if it isn't. -
I was looking at the Aether war book to check the battalion out and I noticed it includes Tzaangor Enlightened, but it isn't bolded and doesn't specify they need to be on disk.
Is this a misprint or does the non bolded "Tzaangor Enlightened" mean either on foot or on disc. I was under the impression if it was non bolded and didn't specify it meant the ones on foot. -
3 hours ago, a74xhx said:
So why take Squig herd in a mostly Squig list?
Boingrots are my frontline cavalry. Hoppers give better board control at the loss of damage output, maybe useful for grabbing objectives.
Stabbas are my tar pits holding the middle, taking up space and gumming up dangerous units. Shootas are my tar pits that avoid combat, in the backline holding objectives and blocking teleporting/flyers.
Troggoths are my chunky elites, playing wherever needed, in both elite killing and horde killing versions, able to soak up damage too.
What do Squig herds give me? They feel like Stabbas with a smaller footprint, which means denser damage. And I can boost them with Squig bosses I already have. But I still feel I'd rather take more Stabbas or Boingrots. What am I missing?
Cheap wounds with rend and since they're on 25mm bases they can attack in 2 ranks. They die in droves, but that can be beneficial if you need to be inflicting mortal wounds when they flee.
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14 hours ago, VonSmall said:
Thanks @Nezzhil!
This does make me a bit sad but I totally get where you are coming from.
I like the movement on the hoppers but their lack of save, very low bravery and 5+/5+ in combat just doesn't justify them for me when you get Boingrots for 10 points more.
It's also a shame you don't get a small points drop for running a max size unit of herders. This could really fill a gap bodies wise and they are a decent call for a battleline unit.
I'l continue to play with the list. I may drop one of the Manglers for 10 more boingrots. Re-rolling their movement from the battalion and +3" move, run + charge is at least somewhat reliable.
I've been meaning to play with hoppers more but I haven't been able to get many games in recently (for obvious reasons). I think a unit of hoppers can be nasty if used correctly. Hide them behind a terrain piece/endless spell/unit and dash forward to trigger the mortal wounds and then straight back to safety. 3d6 move (rerollable if in the battalion) + d6 run + 3 from the loonboss is pretty fast, and a mortal on a 4+ for each model that passes over can be some nasty damage.
I do think their points might still be a bit high though (especially in comparison to boingrots) but this might be a useful piece to have in order to score some extra mortals. If you happen to roll exceptionally well you can dash into the backline as well, but if you roll poorly you're probably going nowhere. -
7 hours ago, VonSmall said:
So I'll be back in the UK for July+August and would really like to put together a Squig list. I know it's not the most competitive with all the random movement but I would still like to try and make a list that could feasibly go 3-2 at a 2 Day event without losing the essence of a squig list.
With that in mind, I was wondering if there were any non-squig units that I should really consider adding in to make the list just a little bit more reliable.
My first thought was the Loonking for his spell casting, command point gain and most importantly his ability to guarantee a board wide Bad Moon for the Run + Charge. Are there any other non-squig units you'd recommend for some added reliability?
Thanks in advance.
Obviously Loonking you already mentioned, but both the fungoid and madcap are decent options as well. The madcap's main appeal over the fungoid is the moonface mommet if you have an extra artifact since it can give a unit a -1 to save and both can take squig lure.
If you're running squig hoppers to try to use their flyover ability prismatic palisade is useful since if you roll well enough you can fly over it, hit the unit you want to, then retreat back over the palisade. This can also be done with regular terrain but depending on the matchup palisade might be more consistent.
If you feel you need an anvil consider some troggoths, both fellwater and rockgut can be durable. If you don't mind allies 30 savage orruks only costs 300 points, has 60 wounds, and has a 5+ save in melee. A Wardokk could fit in too at 80 points and on a 3+ could give the savage orruks a 4+ save in melee.
Loonsmasha fanatics can actually hide in snufflers, but it definitely feels like you'd be gambling with that maneuver. Sporesplattas can help against shooting, but they'll probably die t1 against shooting armies anyways.
Also I've heard rumors that white dwarf 455 will feature squigs so hopefully we see some new battalions.
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36 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:
Has GW ever done a 20% increase on a unit before? The problem w the Pinks is that 20 is SO much better than 10. 240 for 10 is overcosted. 480 for 20 might be right. BUT it's GW so I see a path where they increase 10 to 220 and then give the full unit discount do 20 are still 400.
Flamers need to go up by 20% if Pinks can go up by 20%. I see the Flamers as the worst culprit.
I don't see Changehost dodging an increase. Needs to be 200.
If Pinks do go up then the Gaunt Summoner has to go up as well. That's easily a 300 pt model.
The way I see it the Pink warscroll needs to go, maybe the split can happen at end of phase or in battleshock (with a significant point reduction because of the change in power) but at the moment the sheer efficiency of the unit is too much. This is not really something that can be fixed with just a points change.
240 points for 50 wounds is still among the cheapest wounds in the game (and might even still be the cheapest)
As for flamers, if you push the cost to where they're right for baleful conflagration they become worthless in other builds which is why I don't think they should get pushed up as far, although maybe that's necessary
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22 hours ago, Levvox said:
Hey guys, it's been quite a while since I've played my last game. I heard that we've been blessed with a new battle tome in the meantime. Can anyone give me the most mayor changes? Any units that have gotten completely useless or have risen to the top?
Much appreciated.
Daemons in general are MUCH more powerful as both flamers and horrors got significant buffs. A unit of 10 pinks is actually 50 wounds, and if you restore slain models you can restore the pinks, which means even more splitting. Flamers just have very high damage output and a long threat range. The rest of the daemon stuff hasn't changed that much, although kairos is now a triple caster. I'm not sure how most of the daemon battalions fare, changehost was so powerful it got nerfed but I'm not too sure about the rest.
Its hard to tell where the arcanites stand though, Tzaangors are relatively unchanged and kairics are more expensive but saw buffs to compensate and most of the arcanite battalions are thoroughly mediocre, with wierd unit compositions, and/or high costs.
The Gaunt summoner is quite good now since he can always summon a unit of pinks (50 wounds of chaff) ans has the daemon, mortal, arcanite and slaves to darkness keywords.
The subfactions are a nice addition, but heavily favor daemons with the two best being the horror and flamer subfactions. The kairic subfaction is great for kairics, buffing their shooting significantly but they still don't match up well vs flamers. Tzaangors seem largely forgotten despite being very prevalent in arcanite battalions. Cult of the transient form is super cool, letting kairics fight before they die, or potentially become a tzaangor, but the chance is low(1 in 6), it requires a normal tzaangor unit within 9" of the slain model, kairics still kind of suck in CC and for some reason has the worst artifact and command trait in the entire book. Hosts arcanum might be good for a tzaangor build since you get a pregame move with d3 fliers and get screamer battleline so you could cut costs on battleline a bit.
Cult of a thousand eyes from wrath of the everchosen seems solid for mortals though, letting you ignore cover and reroll hits in melee against d3 units chosen at the start of the game.
Guild of summoners is super cool though, and probably one of the most fair subfactions and works for daemons, arcanites, or a mix. Its major draw is that it can only summon Lords of change, but the first one costs 9 points, the second 18, and any after are 27.
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14 hours ago, EMMachine said:
I would say Spell-eater has to be used at the start of the Herophase because dispelling Endless Spells is restricted to the start of the Herophase. The only difference to the Myrmourn Banshees is that the banshees have to roll dice to disspell it and the Lord of Change does it automaticly with the abilitiy.
The point for the sentence "can attempt to dispel the endless spell in the same manner as a Wizard." is used because the Myrmourn Banshees aren't wizards and you normally need the WIZARD Keyword to Dispell Endless Spells. The Lord of Change doen't need the Sentence because he is a wizard.
It is quite clearly worded on the warscroll "Once per turn, in your hero phase, you can pick one endless spell within 18" of this model. That endless spell is dispelled"
This doesn't specify at the start of the hero phase and this clearly isn't a dispel in the same manner as a wizard since you don't need to give up a spell to use this ability. There are plenty of other ways to have worded this if it did need to be at the start of the hero phase, and the once per hero phase part would be irrelevant if it was at the start of the turn. This also wasn't addressed in the FAQ or designers commentary.
I know in batreps and tournaments people are using it to dispel their own endless spells as well and it makes sense that a Lord of Change could be capable of this.
I'd say all signs point to this being worded as intended, as a special ability that can dispel endless spells in a unique way.
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On 5/22/2020 at 9:19 AM, Malakithe said:
Generals handbook is coming. What points changes do we want or predict?
Kairics down 10 points
Tzaangors- down 20, Wishlist: Unit size changed to 5-30, 15 Tzaangors seems like a potential sweetspot in terms of usability, and saving the cost of 5 could go a long way.
Enlightened and skyfires on disk down 20
Enlightened on foot - Battleline with TZAANGOR General
Flamers up 20
Pink Horrors up 40, Ideally there would be an FAQ or warscroll change to make healing them less obnoxious so they don't need an increase, but 4 points a wound, and healing being 5x as effective makes them a bit ridiculous.
Lord of Change down 30, This guy just does not measure up well to kairos, 20 points for an extra spellcast and an (arguably) better spell is a steal, but I don't think kairos is undercosted
Gaunt Summoner up 30
Battalions:
Alter-kin Coven: down 60. This battalion is frustrating because the effect is weak, and it doesn't have the composition you want. if this could have more kairics and/or Tzaangors it would be fine but as it is it really wants to be taken in multiples. 80 points may be too cheap for a command point and artifact but the battalion effect itself will probably only occur once per game.
Tzaangor Coven: down 20, might be a bit much with all the other tzaangor point drops though
Changehost: Unchanged, probably controversial, but many of the warscrolls and allegiance abilities have issues, and Changehost exacerbates the problem. Increasing the costs of the individual units is probably enough to bring it in line. (Eternal Conflagration flamers, and pink horrors in general will be a problem even outside of changehost)
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13 minutes ago, Dankboss said:
There are factors that need to be considered like power per square inch and autonomy, which are both better with the Dankhold. I'm not saying that they're the superior choice, only that they have opportunities to work well in certain circumstances. 3 Dankholds take up much less space than 9 Rockguts and can more easily control blocks of infantry with their crushing grip and smaller pile in footprint; this also makes for less enemy models striking back. I also would not discount their 4+ magic immunity, as Endless spells used as speed-bumps are extremely prevalent.
Dankholds would be a viable choice for tackling the likes of Chaos Warriors and other elite infantry, while I would choose Rockguts for most other things. Another thing that is easily overlooked is that you're comparing 3 of one troggoth to 1 of another; the Dankhold can fight at maximum capacity while 2 lesser trolls will be dead if the same damage is taken, this is a better comparison than if they were in a vacuum, because the vacuum doesn't take the rest of the game into account. An example is my last game, where my Rockguts were getting pounded by artillery and lost models, but eventually made it into combat: that unit lost effectiveness and it showed, however Dankholds can fight at maximum capacity for longer before they are slain. The Rockguts lost effectiveness as they lost wounds; Dankholds will not.There's lots of non-stat factors to consider when pricing units.
There are other factors, but that goes both ways, large unit footprints can be tough to get into combat, but are excellent for holding objectives, which is a big part of why the game favors hordes at the moment plus fellwaters and rockguts are on 50mm bases with a 2 inch reach. 50mm is just under 2 inches. The dankhold also dies 2 wounds earlier.
What I'm trying to get at is I really don't think the dankholds can justify having a higher price tag than the other variants. I think they belong at the same cost, because when I weigh the pros and cons they seem pretty equal to me, except for the 50-60 point difference in favor of rockguts and fellwaters.
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3 hours ago, Dankboss said:
I agree; most of what makes Gitz a mid tier army at best is our allegiance abilities. Our warscrolls are actually really good, especially things like Rockguts and Bounders.
Even if Rockguts and Fellwaters got a discount, the unit will be too big to wield effectively, and would be a battleshock magnet. The biggest unit I ever see is 9, while I run multiples of 6.
Dankholds won't go below 170 due to things like magic resist being a premium ability (which in this meta I value highly). Now if they were between 170-180 I would take a unit of 3 in a Grot based force (not a Trogg based force like I play) as they'd make excellent line breakers due to their massive footprint to power ratio, and the ability to pull 3 models out of an infantry unit; ogres/stormcast would wet themselves if they get split. The cheapness of the Grots would offset the more premium price of the Dankholds, which is why I wouldn't take it in a Trogg list. Not to mention if you get the Dankholds fighting in cover they can be a real pain to fight. Also, being Bravery 6+1 they can be left on their own provided the enemy doesn't have any penalties to bravery. In the proposed list, they don't need a Dankboss around since All out Attack will do the same thing.
In terms of troggoth hordes I'm just looking for ways to buff troggoth lists that won't break the unit for anything else.
Now onto why dankholds need a significant point drop:
Troggoth melee average damage comparison
3 Fellwater:
Vs 4+ 7.11 damage
Vs 3+ 5.33 damage
Vs 2+ 3.56 damage
3 Rockgut
Vs 4+ 6.67 damage
Vs 3+ 5.33 damage
Vs 2+ 4 damage
1 Dankhold:
Vs 4+ 3.89 damage
Vs 3+ 3.11 damage
Vs 2+ 2.33 damage
Then you can factor in special abilities like the rock throw, grab, and vomit but unless you're grabbing models with 3+ wounds, it will only even out the damage disparity. This isn't even getting into the damage variance of these guys, 3 d6 damage attacks is horribly incinsistent.
Dankholds are also not durable at all. They are currently 10 wounds with a 4+ save is the equivalent of 5 Ardboyz or 5 chaos warriors(which will actually put out similar damage as the troggoth club) even at 170 these guys are way too inefficient. Spell resistance is pointless on a unit that is little more than a speedbump.
Rockguts (definitely) and fellwaters(arguably) are more durable than dankholds, while dealing similar to more damage and having way better wound efficiency. I can't see dankholds being remotely usable until they cost the same, or less than rockguts and fellwaters.
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On 5/22/2020 at 9:15 AM, Malakithe said:
What is everyones predictions for points changes?
A bit of this is wishlisting of course but I'll give what I think some of the stuff should go to.
Dankhold Troggboss - 270 to 250
Fungoid Cave Shaman - 90 to 100 (Not convinced, but this guy is very solid for the points and is used as an ally quite a bit)
Madcap Shaman - 80 to 70
Arachnarok with Warparty/Flinger - Battleline if Spiderfang General.
Gobbapalooza - 200 to 160
Dankhold Troggoths - 200 to 150/400 (these dudes really need a warscroll rewrite though, but this at least makes the bodies more affordable)
Fellwater Troggoths - 150 to 150/520
Rockgut Troggoths - 140 to 140/520
note on Troggoths: I think horde discounts are the way to go for troggoths going forward, since if they get any cheaper every destruction faction and non-troggoth list is going to benefit more from the efficiency. What I would really like to see though is troggoths being able to regenerate back slain models if their unit still exists.
Spider Riders - from 100/540 to 80/280 with their unit size changed to 5/20. I could see these guys going as low as 70 points base though.
SporeSplatta Fanatics - 120 to 100
Squig Hoppers 90 to 80, I'd love it to go to 80/280 though.
Scuttletide: 30 to 50
Malevolent Moon: 40 to 30
Battalions:
Gobbapalooza - 110 to 100
Troggherd - 180 to 80 (This thing has a sketchy ability at the best of times, and the fact it can make a 1 drop list doesn't really matter when Troggoths don't get a huge benefit from going first or second since they aren't fast enough to alpha strike, and don't have enough shooting/magic to make double turns crippling.)
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1 hour ago, Malakree said:
The big question is, if Brutes were 100 points, would you take them over Ardboys? How low does their points need to be that they are actually usable?
I did the math using 5 brutes with dual weapons vs 5 ardboyz against a 4+ save and ardboys do around 0.04 wounds per point while brutes do about 0.048. Brutes should scale better with bigger units due to additional gore hackas and I would expect brutes with gore choppas to do better in large units as well due to the 2 inch range. Brutes will do even better against anything with 4+ wounds, so if things like ogors or giants become meta brutes will start looking very good even at the current point cost.
In terms of points per wound ardboys are a 9 and brutes are a 9.3.
If we were just looking at a points drop brutes start looking good at 130 and are probably better than ardboyz at 120 (8 points per wound, 0.056 damage per point). I'd probably advocate for a horde discount of ~80 points myself. You get the 20 point discount, but only in a big unit and "horde" discounts actually make more sense on units that don't have incentive to be run in larger units to make the decision between MSU or big units more compelling.
I'd still prefer a warscroll update though.
If they were 100 points i think the only reason to take 'ardboyz would be for hand of gork. As they would have 0.0672 damage per wound and 6.67 wounds per point which is nearing savage orruk levels of efficiency, especially with the save factored in.
@TALegion That actually sounds like a great idea, i'll definitely give that a shot when I can eventually get a game in.
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1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:
Fair enough, maybe that works better in your meta. Khorne can kick out a few mortals for sure.
Have you got your eyes on a particular Mount Trait then?
Probably Mean 'Un for the bonus damage. I could go fast 'un, but if I really want the maw Krusha somewhere i can probably afford to use a CP on Mighty Destroyers.
Although Ignax's scales + Wierd Un would make him nearly invulnerable against magic if I need that much defemse.
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2 hours ago, Jackroks981 said:
I like brutes too, they look one million times better than ardboys which is way I run them, I don’t think they’re unplayable at all and I have lots of success with them. However I’m also aware that this is the internet and apparently I’m not allowed to say I like brutes.
Yeah I love brutes too, but the issue is that they are too similar in function to Ardboyz. Same save, similar attack profile, similar points to wound ratio.
The game as it is now favors big hordes though, and generally the 'ardboyz +2 to charge, bravery bonus, and shields are more useful than the Brutes +1 to hit against 4+ wound models and Gore Hacka. But IMO its a pretty close comparison. If it werent for the +2 charge bonus I would probably leave them at home too.
Its a bit surprising that a faction with 3 units has 2 that are nearly identical in role and strength. I don't think brutes need buffs, but certainly they need to differentiate 'Ardboyz and Brutes more.
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8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:
You make an interesting point on the Quickduff Amulet @Ganigumo
Bloodtoofs haven't been super popular competitively, but with the +cast +unbind arms race, it might be worth a second look to have that guaranteed teleport.
Shame the Command Trait is such a tax.
Don't forget your Mount Trait. If you take Weird Un, that gives you access to ignore magic on a 4+ which removes a lot of the logic for taking Ignax Scales, in turn freeing you up to take Ethereal Amulet.
I'd also advise a second unit of Gore Gruntas over a Gargant at the same points every time, unless you're looking at Rule of Cool and you like em, in which case go for it!
The Gargant is mostly filler at the moment, but I've already got it painted. I'll probably swap it out once I get some more Gore Gruntas painted.
My reason for playing ignax's scales is that there's a lot of khorne in my playgroup and Wierd 'un doesn't help against Prayers so I'm wondering if that gives more durability than ethereal amulet in that scenario.
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If we're looking to make brutes better I would love to see them get +1 damage somehow. A lot of models on 40mm bases have at least 2 damage for their primary attack (Ogors, trolls, Tzaangor enlightened, etc) it would probably come with a point increase though. I like the idea since it makes the warchanter less of a necessity for Brutes.
Also what is the opinion on Bloodtoofs? I've been painting up a list but I'm not sure if I should go Bloodtoofs for the +1 charge and autocasting hand of gork, or go with no clan and a wierdnob to free up an artifact and get a useful command trait.
My List:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
15 x Orruk Brutes (420)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 3x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
- Allies
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 136
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34 minutes ago, Pitloze said:
As somehow who wants to focus on Grots and Troggoths. Which Spiderfang and Squig units are still worth including?
You can probably skip most of whats in spiderfang, the only stand-out if you aren't focusing on spiderfang synergy is the arachnarok shaman. He's a dual caster with +1 to cast he can take a spell to project a -1 to hit bubble, which can make grots and fellwaters much more durable.
For squigs, herds are cheaper than grots in min sizes so you can skimp on battleline if you need to. Boingrots are strong but your trolls will probably already be filling the hammer role.
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4 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:
Anyone have much experience with big units of Big Stabbas? Feels like they would be great for breaking deathstars, especially in Drakkfoot, but don't see then in list more than the odd unit of two or four.
I'm incredibly inexperienced with Bonesplitterz but my thoughts are that 2-4 are more than enough to smash most monsters(2 with no buffs dealing on average ~7.5 damage), and they're extremely fragile. lumping a bunch in a big unit would make them an easy target for shooting/magic, where a small unit is easier to hide, and tougher to justify dumping a lot of resources into removing.
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20 hours ago, C0deb1ue said:
Are the squig battalions worth taking?
Squig rider stampede is really good, it helps your bounderz be more consistent and nets you an artifact.
Squigalanche is a bit weak, 6" fight & pile in is good, but it only working under the bad moon makes it too limiting. The cost and organisation force you to use a hero on a squig as well, since only 2 squig herds fit into the battalion meaning you can't afford to use skragrott to get the bonus when you need it. The battalion also doesn't include any snufflers or wizards, when you really want access to squig lure and/or the snuffler buff. If it was a bit cheaper, or had 3 squig herds in it it would be much better but as it stands its pretty unreliable.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I know its not tzeentch, but i find parts of this VERY hard to believe. Specifically the warclans wierdnob shaman (single caster with no bonuses with plenty of armies locking down magic) and the lack of kroak in seraphon. Although the rest of the list seems believable.
They probably want to get tzeentch in line before buffing the weaker units.