Ganigumo
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Posts posted by Ganigumo
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18 hours ago, Stromberg said:
Hi guys, i Just started ogor mawtribes and i got a question how to build the Mournfang Pack the Best way. I got myself 2 starter Boxes and i want to build 2x 4.
1)Do you guys prefer Gargant Hackers or culling Clubs/prey hacker?
2) if i build a skalg, a horn blower and a Banner bearer all of those use a culling Club or prey hacker. Is this right? So best i could Do is add only one Gargant hacker?
Thanks in advance.
Personally I prefer clubs & ironfists, the damage is nearly identical vs a 4+ save, anything higher or rerolls will favor the gargant hackers, but thats not taking the mortal wounds from the ironfists into account. the 2" range isn't particularly useful on mournfang imo. Ironfist mileage can vary wildly as well, being better against massed weak attacks than against high quality ones.
Also since the description says "The unit is armed with one of the following weapon options" it means everything will have the chosen weapon, including the skalg horn blower, and banner bearer, even though those ones are modeled with clubs. -
@Nezzhil the chamon artifact is probably the best one for his durability and would let him fight rend 1 things more consistently. If you wanted an offensive option maybe the one to reroll 1s to wound? Then you can use a CA to reroll hits of 1 as well. Still weaker than ghyrstrike though.
Howzit is basically just praying to the dice gods.
If I had only 1 artifact option I would definitely be considering a madcap with moonface mommet. Its probably the best artifact in our book, but the madcap is pretty fragile.
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47 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
In the new meta without the Realm Artifacts and when you need battlelines, leaders and monsters... Skragrott is useful like in the classic tournament lists?
With endless spells being limited and the amount of stuff around that can wreck low wound heroes he might be in trouble.
Controlling the moon will still be powerful but there are going to be matchups where he probably can't cast anything useful and will get blown off too quickly and i imagine those armies are going to be the ones gatekeeping/winning.
Lumineth is going to be an absolute nightmare for us, since their archers don't need LoS, they have the potential to shut down our magic, they have bravery debuffs, they can pass off battleshocks to our units and they have a spell that makes our CA cost 2cp.
I don't know if skragrott would be dead weight there because of magic dom and sniping or mandatory for the cp, and it looks like lumineth is quite popular too.
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3 hours ago, RUNCMD said:
I think if they go up to 140 that's still not too bad really. I personally think pinks are where they need to be and don't need a hike. They're nothing but a tar pit really.
Pinks are where they should be if each model returned to the unit didn't net you 5 more wounds.
That interaction is the reason they need an increase or new warscroll.
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6 minutes ago, Requizen said:
Anyone played around with the Anvil of Apotheosis for Bonesplitterz yet?
One of my main issues with playing Bonesplitterz prior to this has been access to baseline hard hitting units that didn't require buffs, outside Big Stabbas. This was was somewhat alleviated in the new book with the inclusion of the Rogue Idol into Bonesplitterz, which worked out great.
But now, you can make a pretty solid beatstick custom Hero if events allow it, and I think a non-zero amount will. I'm thinking even a Monster Hero alongside a Rogue Idol might be pretty terrifying - there's plenty of solid support spells in our Lore, and that Hero would get Warpaint, Monster Hunter, and Tireless Trackers, making it a great aggressive piece on the board. One could splurge and make it Ethereal with a good save, which would give us a nice independent unit that can swing around and fight things.
There's definitely gas in Anvil I think, a cheap foot hero with the +1 save CA could give savage Orruks a 2+ save, 5+ with shield, +1 from the spell, +1 from wardokk prayer, +1 from CA.
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2 hours ago, Boar said:
Huh? But it`s written that they are battline in SoB army, (and max unit size counts as 3), so what`s stopping someone from taking 9 solo mancrushers and mega-gargant?
Points. Mancrushers are 180/480. but 3 solo mancrushers is 540.
The other gargants are 480 or 490.
so if you run 3 of the 490 point one you would hit 1470 points and be unable to run any solo gargantsif you run 2 of the 490 point one and one 480 point one you would hit 1460 points and be able to run 3 solo gargants.
if you run 9 solo mancrushers you would hit 1620 points, and you can't fit a mega gargant in the list to be your general.
Basically the army has 4 500 point slots when listbuilding, and you can usually only run 3 solo gargants before being forced to squad them up. Although I suspect most lists will have the choice between running the 3 solo gargants or a bonus command point.-
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10 hours ago, RUNCMD said:
Overall, starting to play more games now with restrictions easing and my new units rocking up in the mail, and im really starting to enjoy the new Tome a lot more. Im running Pyrofane mostly as Ive invested most of my battleline into Kairics, and I dont think you would take anything else, other than Guild of Summoners to get that resistant to battleshock, because the buffs in the Pyrofane coven are actually great when used correctly. Just my thoughts though.
I think pyrofane is overshadowed by eternal conflagration at the moment, but if flamers eat a nerf (which they certainly will be) I think Pyrofane will be able to stand on its own. You can definitely get a lot of mileage out of a 30 block of kairics in a witchfyre coven, and bringing a fatemaster can allow you to reroll hits as well as wounds although you might not have the CP for it.
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22 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:
Where did you get this from?
From the battletome pg 5: "Though some Orruks can be quite ingenious when it comes to new ways of bashing, clubbing or impaling their victims, they see things like blackpowder weapons, well made castle walls, and duardin flying machines as 'cheatin'" (this statement is about all orruks, but just rules out anything more advanced than bows and maybe the crudest of artillery)
pg 8:"These Orruks epitomise the side of the greenskin psyche that is brutal rather than cunning. They favour raw strength and resilience over all that complicated brainy stuff they call 'finkin'"
"The weapons and armor of the ironjawz are crude but effective, much like the orruks that use them. Simple weapons of iron and steel are popular"
"Not all are simple bludgeons and axes, for the rough ingenuity of the orruk manifests in the creation of their most prized weapons - some have crude blade-breakers saw teeth or claws that can pull an enemys' guard wide open before the killer blow slams in"
"The ironjawz do not have smiths as such, nor do they trust grots to fashion their equipment for them - instead they batter and punch the metal into shape"
Its not directly stated they are opposed to using ranged weapons but if you read between the lines it paints a pretty clear picture that not only do they lack the desire to use ranged weapons, but also likely the ability to craft them, and even if they could it would only be the crudest and simplest possible, even bows would likely be out of the smithing ability of the ironjawz, since it would take a more delicate hand to craft one, let alone the ammunition.The rules also reflect this mentality being that every allegiance ability either helps in combat, or helps get to combat.
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Just now, Scurvydog said:
Well I don't really agree with this, however they currently have a problem with Ardboyz and Brutes being samey in game, even though they only have 3 units to choose from! There is so much you could do with big nasty Orruks who likes to beat both beasts and armor plates into submission. With Gordrakk laying siege, adding a warmachine to Ironjawz would be awesome, anyone who played WoW and saw warmachines from the Iron Horde would have an idea here, like a broken and whipped mawkrusha like beast having a crude mega shotgun strapped to its back basically, or a Megaboss in a grunta chariot, to fill that gap between foot hero and Behemoth.
The current Warclans book was a great disappointment to me, none of the factions got anything new, not even terrain, and sacrificed a more diverse offering of sub factions for both IJ and BS to get a combo allegiance which is still not good for combining these armies, as every single spell, ability and warscroll has no synergy with the other faction. To make things worse they even overlapped in function. Orruks and foot with shields, Orruks on boars with hand weapons or spears...
No despite the rules being decently strong, orruks as a race is in a dire spot compared to the rest of destruction. The theme of both Ogors and their hunger+everwinter is so much stronger, and gitz with their musrooms and bad moon binds it all together. Orruk warclans feel like someone took a very limited range and an old range with just enough life in to not scrap with the other greenskinz and then taped them together and slapped som vague lore on top. I don't even play them, but I was really entertained by the lore of the gitz, while the warclans is just so generic it hurts, with barely anything interesting going on in an overall narrative.
Argh tore up that wound again, time to patch it up and drown the sorrows. At least the new underworlds warband of brutes look sweet, altthough 3 brutes cant possibly be useful in AoS, they are hopefully a sign of things to come...
Ironjawz are basically strictly opposed to using ranged weapons in any major capacity, so while Ironjawz themed war machines would look awesome, they wouldn't fit into the faction thematically unless they were being crewed by grots or something, at which point you might as well make that a faction (Gitmob/grotback). If you were adding "siege" units to Ironjawz it would need to fit their theme, brutes with heavier armor and shields that walk through enemy fire to get to them (3+ save, 2+ when not in combat since they use their shield to block and not bash), a Grunta chariot, that is pushed from the rear and the front is a big metal plate used to ram into stuff that curves over the gruntas to protect them, and maybe some new shaman/boss variants. The other issue is Ironjawz already have the tool they need to smash down city gates and stuff in the maw krusha, and if you need a bigger thing it'll need to be something like Gordrakk's battering ram, which is more of a narrative piece than a useful unit.
From my perspective adding these things doesn't really expand Ironjawz in an interesting way, even if the models would be awesome, since Ironjawz already covers everything they need, sure a grunta boss would be cool, but it doesn't expand the army, its purely driven from a game perspective. Ironjawz is a very "complete" faction given its current lore, and expanding it doesn't seem like it would add anything to the army. This is why I think a new clan would be the way to go since I feel the same about bonesplitterz.
I also disagree about the themes of Orruks being weak thematically. Ironjawz are pragmatic to a fault driven by their experience, everything that they didn't need was scrapped so they could be better at what they do, smashing and bashing. Its simple, but thats why it fits Ironjawz and that is the appeal. Ironjawz are a fist, united in goal and purpose. I won't go into bonesplitterz, but the lore is very interesting (at least to me) and fits them well, although they could use some updated models/endless spells. -
5 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:
I am still on board with the idea of giving Aelves their own Grand Alliance. It reduces the order bloat and would make most of the alliances similar sizes. Also Order could still field elves through Cities which would work independently from this hypothetical alliance.
As for Destruction proper. I think it is really interesting that there is little in the way of rumoured factions beyond two possible Goblin armies. Grotbag Scuttlers have a lot of dedicated fans who have already made custom armies. Ever since Rippa's Snarlfangs release I have seen folks clamouring for a dedicated Gitmob release. I would normally expect these to be enfolded into a single army or released as expansions of Gloomspite in the future but something about these armies seem like they could work as stand-alones.
I have stated many times that the aesthetic and play style of Idoneth and Fyreslayers would have made them interesting additions to destruction but their current lore does not make either of them the best fit. I also think an army of classical witches would make a cool destruction army and I would love an army of riderless wild dragons. I feel a lot of people want Fimir but I feel that they are somewhat underdeveloped conceptually and might feature as part of a larger swamp themed army (might work with my idea for a classical witch army).I think gitmob and Grotback could get an Orruk warclans style book, with two separate allegiances, and then a little waaagh! allegiance. Honestly based on how well I've heard the gloomspite line went, I think it might be possible that the destruction faction at the forefront of the next edition could be this new goblin faction, with the starter set focusing on one half, and the initial release covering the other, catching both nostalgic players and those hyped for the new AoS style.
The obvious choice would be ironjawz but Ironjawz wouldn't expand well, there's only a couple potential units you could add to the army without all the units feeling samey or breaking the focus of the army. Warclans would probably get expanded by the creation of a new clan, if/when it happens.
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I Love AoS. This is coming from dropping wargaming entirely after the initial axing of Fantasy and introduction of AoS.
The game rules are simple, which is great because there's enough depth in the factions, scenarios, and general strategy of the game that it won't get boring. (I also like that I don't need to reference a compendium of special rules like in Fantasy/40k)
I love the setting, it very much feels like unexplored territory, and will hopefully stay that way indefinitely, which can prevent it from becoming stale. Even the addition of new realms is a possibility, which is a huge change from Fantasy where so much was static and defined.
The new armies, and they way they built old armies into the new setting has been great.
My only issues tend to be game balance related, we are entering a world with two tiers of books, which is going to be exacerbated by the constant creep of powerful magic. Most armies have magic, but only a small handful are going to actually be able to use it, since the strong magic armies are also great at shutting down enemy magic, which is a problem since many armies need their support spells to function properly.-
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14 hours ago, KingBrodd said:
Sons of Behemat!! What release date are we realistically looking at here? August or September? July is going to be dominated by 9th but will August be as well?
My money would be on early August. I know they want to get 40k stuff out the door but I imagine they'll give the players a week of breathing room after needing to buy all the new books and indomitus.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sons of Behemat announcement on sunday, but it might be more likely that we get a specialist games release since some of those have been dragging for a while as well.-
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I made a scuttleboss on arachnarok spider. I couldn't really recreate the crew attacks but this thing still looks better than the normal arachnaroks...
The rider doesn't have access to poisoned attacks but luckily the spiderfang artifact table is actually available to him (unlike any of the moonclan artifacts) so I can just give him The Black Fang.
300 points might be worth it here in comparison to the other arachnarok variants, but he would be competing with the Webspinner I think. I feel like the +1 save CA would be better but the +1 hit CA is more fitting.edit: It seems I got the numbers wrong and this should be 31DP, or 310 points.
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2 minutes ago, Dankboss said:
Do models actually block line of sight?
Yes, but only if they physically block line of sight. as per the rules
So smaller models like grots or possibly even fellwaters (they're quite squat) might not block LoS properly, the Rockguts are pretty tall and beefy though and can probably obscure a shaman from sight. Won't work against K.O though, since their boats are pretty tall, but might work against kroak. -
12 minutes ago, Dankboss said:
So having returned my Madcap Shaman with Mommet to my list, I played a game against Greywater Fastness, which was a good test for the emerging shooting meta.
I kept Nightshroud on my Rockguts and that was a big deal, as I only lost 2 before they reached combat (most of the artillery and 30 gunners shot at them); the remaining 4 went on to kill 17 Longbeards in one turn. Hag Curse reduced the effectiveness of the 30 Handgunners and made for a smooth charge for my grots to absorb Stand and Shoot, losing just 5.
While it was no hard edged list from Greywater, it was certainly a good test against massed powerful shooting.
Now the Madcap would be fairly easy to shoot off if he's properly targeted, but all the Troggs going for his frontline made my opponent focus them instead, so I think the trick is to give them a better target than him.
It was The Blade's Edge (or whatever it was called) which I think can be a pretty good mission for Gitz as Grots can easily hold multiple objectives at once, and speed isn't such a big deal. The game ended on my turn 2, as the Troggs wiped out his infantry, so he had nothing to hold with. Probably not the best game to test the army's effectiveness, but the indicators were there as to what we can do against shooting.
I'm not certain, But i think rockguts might be big enough to block line of sight to the madcap if you position properly, those rockguts are pretty large in comparison to the madcap. Rockguts + Madcap could prove to be a good power piece against shooting.
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2 hours ago, Dankboss said:
The meta is shifting towards high armor and shooting right now, thanks to OBR, Tzeentch and Seraphon; both of which we have tools to deal with, while some armies are left in the dust with no answer. The Madcap Shaman's value has gone up recently imo, thanks to his -1 to hit from missile weapons spell, and Moonface Mommet. Now he's extremely vulnerable, so he's not easy to use, but still at 80 points he certainly has value and the tools for the job. I'm returning him to my list at least.
Rockguts are a good investment due to their massive damage and 5+ ward save, so they'll always be a relevant and safe choice for most matchups.
Now we're still probably going to get dunked on, but it's not hopeless. We'll have to see how the new GHB changes the aforementioned armies first.
Vince Venturella was discussing another shift towards 'Spell Doms' with the release of Lumineth, so I think Skragrott does still have value with Cauldron to at least try and compete with a +2. This also increases the Dankboss' value a bit, thanks to his magic resistance. Having a hero that can't be sniped is value in its own right.
Magic domination is certainly the way things look to be going, seraphon have crazy dispelling too. I know for my ironjawz I've started playing bloodtoofs and dropped the shaman entirely. I don't think gitz have the luxury of dropping magic and still staying competitive. I wonder if it might be worth running a Loonskin Troggboss general in a more grot focused list over skragrott. It would let you fit a unit of rockguts in as battleline over one of the Grot units to diversify the force. I haven't seen much about it, but the seraphon matchup looks really bad for us (kroak sniping our foot heroes stopping our inspiring presence) and having a troggboss might help mitigate that.
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From what I've seen the rumored points changes range from disappointing to confusing, Like pricing the rogue Idol out of Gitz, or finally giving the Dankhold Troggoth a point drop, but only going down 10 points, while the Troggboss got another point drop. It almost feels like this set of point changes was just to make it look like they were doing something.
Hopefully the next iteration will just drop the matched play points entirely, put them in pdfs, and instead focus on extra narrative and matched play content (like mercs, battleplans, etc)
I'm super excited for the Custom warscrolls though, that alone would justify the book for me. There are a bunch of holes in some of the armies I play that I can convert characters up to fit into, and now have some rules to go with it.-
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11 hours ago, Nezzhil said:
Gitmob returns in the GHB20
Praise the Sun!
My bet on gitmob returning would be on another goblin book with gitmob as a subfaction. Gloomspite was all about subterranean and nocturnal goblins (with spiderfang). I imagine we'd get a goblin book featuring both Gitmob (worshipping the sun of Hysh) and Grotback scuttlers, then possibly a "Little Waaagh!" allegiance as well. It would be a bit similar to lumineth, with one half the book capturing nostalgia with gitmob, and the other half being something new. -
5 hours ago, Bululu said:
well the removal of ethereal mawcrushar is a big nerf indeed, but its something every army has to deal with. The problem i see with this is that it benefits even more to the new shooting meta making it even easier for them...
I think Ironjawz aren't hit too hard by this as many builds have a slightly weaker variant. Ironsunz get an artifact to reduce rend by 1 and no clan, Big Waagh! and Choppas have access to a command trait for +1 save, which can be combined with another artifact (but we'll see what those look like)
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31 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
Dankhold Trogboss 250 -20
Dankhold Troggoth 190 -10Gobbapalooza 180 -20
Trogg Battalion 170 -10
Rogue Idol (allied) 420 +20 (bye bye)My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.
Its amazing the Troggboss has come down 50 points since release, despite it actually having a role and a reason to take it, while the dankhold Troggoth is just now coming down a miniscule amount that won't put it anywhere near playable.-
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19 hours ago, Valentine009 said:
I think that's legitimate. Probably doesn't come up often though
You could intentionally trigger this with with the Tyrant CA and a unit of gnoblars. Not sure if that would be worth it though.
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13 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said:
So how do you all feel about the rumoured/leaked changes to points for IJ?
Boys +10
Brutes -10
Megaboss -10
Shaman +10
A minor nerf, whilst the pts drop not being significant enough to make the megaboss and brutes interesting? 🤔
The wierdnob change makes 0 sense to me, which makes me very skeptical of the rumor overall.
I've shifted to bloodtoofs because of how crazy the magic phase power creep is getting, and running a footboss to hold the artefact for the free teleport instead of bringing a wierdnob.
Brutes are certainly more interesting with those changes though, i figured that a 20 point decrease on brutes would make them better than 'ardboyz in most cases, and a 10 point decrease wouldn't be enough. This feels like it lands somewhere in the middle, with brutes being more effecient in terms of wounds and damage but with ardboyz having more bravery and better charges.
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49 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:
From the leaks that are appearing. I can confirm that the cities list is true based on other leaks so Im guessing that Tzeentch is true too
More leaks here: https://twitter.com/ChumphammerI know its not tzeentch, but i find parts of this VERY hard to believe. Specifically the warclans wierdnob shaman (single caster with no bonuses with plenty of armies locking down magic) and the lack of kroak in seraphon. Although the rest of the list seems believable.
They probably want to get tzeentch in line before buffing the weaker units.
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16 hours ago, Jabbuk said:
Hey guys, here's a quick question. I remember before our new book, that building brutes was a no-brainer. You build them with Choppas in groups of 5 with the boss Klaw.
Now that everything has changed with the new book for Brutes and that this configuration is less useful than let's say, a group of 10 with Gore-Hackas, I'm looking for ways to make my brutes useful and sometimes (only sometimes) just field them as a group of 10 w/hackas but they all have Choppas on
You guys have any ideas to bash them into Gore-Hackas? Or is the only solution to buy 2 other kits? (And since their warscroll is meh, I don't see this as a good investment)
The math isn't as bad as it looks for units of 10. If you can get 5 within 1" the choppa variant will get 16 attacks, and the hackas will get 21. This looks bad, but once you lose 2 models it evens out, or if you can get one more brute in the difference is only 1 attack.
Something to keep in mind is gore-choppas have 2" range so they can still attack over your dual choppa brutes.
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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
FAQs are out.
Wierdnob shaman is now 120 (why?)
Foot Megaboss is now 140
'Ardboys are 100
Brutes are 130
Other than the shaman change this seems fine? It probably pushes brutes to be more efficient than 'Ardboys but 'Ardboys have more utility. I'll probably be dropping down to 10 'Ardboys from 15 and running a few more brutes in my list.