Jaskier
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Posts posted by Jaskier
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1 minute ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:
Someone in the Rumor thread pointed out to me that, functionally, this kinda already exists, in that having an enemy unit within 3" of one of your Wyldwoods often means that you can't place a unit more than 9" away from it while still being within teleport distance of the wood.
So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree that the additional number of starting teleport destinations through overgrown terrain, combined with the teleport range now expanded from 6" to 9", is overall a net positive. Hopefully it also becomes easier to plop down more overgrown terrain and/or Wyldwoods as the game progresses.
And we haven't even seen the Seasons of War!
This was my thinking exactly, it will only affect larger terrain pieces - which we couldn't teleport to before anyway, so it's less a negative and more just something for Sylvaneth players and their opponents to be aware of.
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It's weird to me that anyone would think a faction with army-wide retreat and charge and super high mobility fits a hammer-and-anvil playstyle and not a hit-and-run playstyle. This army's baseline tools are designed to let you choose your engagements with ease. If you approach Nighthaunt as you do Stormcast or Soulblight then you're not using the tools provided to their fullest.
The closest thing to a traditional anvil in the army is a Grimghast blob with Discorporate in the no retreat subfaction, but even that is best used more as a pinning tool abusing the ridiculously powerful combo of retreat and charge/no retreat to mess with how enemy units are piling in to pull them away from where they want to be rather than a "grind it out" type of unit.
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Alarielle, Be'lakor, the Slaanesh twins Dexcessa/Synessa, Morathi and Karazai are my favourite centrepiece kits in that order.
Infernal Enrapturess, Lady of Vines, Eltharion, Arch-Revenant and Bastian Carthalos are my favourite heroes in that order.
Orruk Brutes, Vanari Wardens, Kurnoth Hunters, Myrmidesh Painbringers and Stormdrake Guard are my favourite line units in that order.
I had to do multiple categories with top fives because I've loved so many kits they've done for AoS, and even with so many spots it was a struggle to narrow them down. It really feels like the designers keeps outdoing themselves every year.
If I had to pick just one and lose the rest, it'd be Alarielle. It's the model that really sold me on the direction of AoS and is still the one I cherish most in my collection. It helps that Sylvaneth are just top to bottom an amazing range like Nighthaunt.
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I tried the new rules and got to test out a few things I've yet to use - my game opportunities have been infrequent at best and my tournament focus has been on other armies - and I think they are a nice, but not game-changing boost. It definitely will not shoot the faction straight to the top tables but it's a nice alternative to just waiting for the big summons and gives a bit more incentive to using smaller summons to retain the bonuses.
In my game, I got to 18 Depravity/the 5++ by the bottom of my turn two leading into round three which helped offset my opponent's damage in their subsequent turn after they won priority; it's going to be super useful against slower armies that have weaker shooting and from which you can easily farm Depravity, like Nurgle. For a lot of armies though it's business as usual, especially if you're like me and you don't abuse Fomoroids or other Depravity 'farms.' Even against another struggling faction in Ossiarchs I still felt how weak we are on objectives; our only proper high body count unit is one that folds like paper and should'nt be used sacrificially, and everything else is too expensive to fit much of it in.
Here's hoping for some good point decreases in the GHB, as otherwise I'll be waiting for a new battletome before taking Slaanesh to another tournament and it pains me to say that given they are by far my most played army. For reference, it's less to do with how 'good' the army is but more that it's playstyle is so stale now which points reductions could change by making other units more viable. It's just not as fun or engaging as the other factions I own, which is pretty bad given it's Slaanesh of all things.
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It just occurred to me that as we now know overgrown terrain will functionally give us the same benefits wyldwoods do (at least as far as what they've shown off) and we get to pick three terrain pieces at the start of the game to be overgrown - and assuming we also get a wyldwood to start with - Sylvaneth armies will now start with up to four (five if you count the Lady of Vines; more on her below) wyldwoods/equivalents!
That's a pretty huge buff given we only ever started with one and the placement rules made it difficult to summon extra ones in good spots. I can only assume this means we'll be less reliant on the actual wyldwood models themselves; it seems the intent is to solve Sylvaneth players lugging around multiple sets of terrain compared to the one other armies use. Exciting times!
The only real "negative" - and I'd argue it's really more a balancing factor to make the army matchup more interactive for opponents, which I like - is the teleporting can be blocked if any enemy units are within 3" of the terrain you want to go to, but getting four to start with will still give us a lot more flexibility and especially so in the early game. Helpfully, Durthu's Spirit Paths rule (based on the leaked warscroll) doesn't have this restriction; he can teleport to a terrain feature that's got enemies within 3" of it as long as he's setup more than 9" away, so your opponent will have to be very careful to stop him coming at them.
The preview also gave us a better idea of just how useful the Lady of Vines' aura for stuff counting as being wholly within range of a Wyldwood will be. It will;
1) Let them heal a wound at the start of your hero phase.
2) Teleport - per the wording of it, you just need to be wholly within range of a friendly Wyldwood to teleport; the wording of the Lady's ability implies you wouldn't be able to teleport to her because she only counts as a wyldwood for units near her, but it looks to me like the Lady will absolutely let you teleport from her. It's the same wording for the new Spirit Paths on Durthu's warscroll.
3) Use the new ability to leave combat after striking. Like above, she will for sure qualify a unit to use the ability but I'm unclear if you can actually use it to teleport to her from another wyldwood.
All up that's pretty nice for her and honestly is already more than I was expecting. She's essentially a mobile teleporter (in multiple ways) and healer. Lastly, it's hard not to think of Alarielle given her unique monstrous rampage gives scenery the overgrown rules with no dice roll required. This will let us get overgrown terrain in enemy territory, particularly if you can use it on faction terrain (I'm unclear on this one) and can potentially seed the whole board without needing any Wyldwoods!
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If Overgrown can block Alarielle, she seems like the perfect candidate to try and abuse that teleport after fight rule - while she already has retreat and charge, her big weakness is high damage shooting/mortal wound output putting her down in the enemy turn before she can heal and reposition. If you can play around the wholly within ranges for scenery while charging stuff, and if overgrown terrain does block line of sight for her, this will make her extremely difficult to kill without compromising on her damage output on our turns, allowing you to fight without actually exposing her to a potentially deadly counter-punch. We'll see.
Strong rules though, and already making me feel Sylvaneth are getting a similar allegiance tune-up to Nighthaunt.
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9 hours ago, Thugmullet said:
OK. I see now. As they have only named Sylvaneth in the text then she is only Warmaster in Sylvaneth. So nothing changes for her in CoS. I was going off the other Warmaster models like Nagash who does not get army benefits in armies except for the spells. I can see that is set up to allow him in multiple armies as he exceeds the ally points of 400 and also tones him down so he is not OP in those armies. This is good.
Yeah Nagash is an exception to the rule and is closer to Gotrek than Alarielle in terms of how he fits into an army; any Death army can take him but outside of spells he can't use allegiance stuff. Whereas Alarielle is a Sylvaneth model that can go into Living City, Nagash has no parent faction. It's good for us; things like Alarielle and Karazai slot right in to Living City.
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3 hours ago, Thugmullet said:
So Allarielle is to get the Warmaster keyword.
In practice does this mean she will lose access to the shoot and scoot command from LC but retain access to the spell lore?
Will she also count as General in a Living City army?
Why would she lose access to the Living City command? She's only a Warmaster in a Sylvaneth army - so no, she wouldn't be a general in Living City. Her access to the spell lore would be the same as it is now, which is yes - that's decided by the wording of the spell lore itself (which lets unique Cities of Sigmar units use it.)
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32 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
Did Morgwaeth and the Blade Coven get notably better? 9 wounds for the Blade Coven, with 4 attacks each...
Yep, they gained an attack and wound per model, and Morgwaeth herself now does D3 Damage instead of 1. Seems like a no brainer if you're thinking of running a Hag Queen on foot and have the points spare to take them instead.
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Here's the big question; do we think the Lady will be a timed exclusive to that box? The archers certainly won't, but it's often a coin toss if we have to wait for the characters out of a box set.
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29 minutes ago, Frowny said:
How are people feeling about cauldrons now? The always on avatars actually seems to make them pretty killy? Put them with some shadow stalkers for a 3+ save screen might be interesting.
The Slaughter Queen on Cauldron looks like a near auto-take for my lists because of how killy it is on top of having a 2+ strike first prayer. It's gonna be nasty combo-charging with other stuff to pile on the pain before any reprisal.
It's important to note that bucklers now change the save characteristic instead of giving +1 to saves, meaning Witches/Sisters with bucklers near a Cauldron now get a 4+ save!
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Something I didn't see in the leaks is that the Slaughter Queen (both versions) has a prayer that lets her fight first, and it's answered on a 3+...so a 2+ if she's on a Cauldron. That's nuts!
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Yep. Blood Sisters are gonna wreck face. It's gonna be hard to choose between Khelt Nar (repositioning with retreat and charge is always great) and Zanthar Kai (automatically fighting when they die is awesome) for a snake themed list.
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Does Morathi know all lore spells as she did post-FAQ? If so, I can imagine that's why she lost her +1 to cast/etc as that in itself was a decent buff that came out of nowhere.
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15 minutes ago, boyadventurer said:
Alarielle's scrolls is out in the wild now.
Spear damage gone down 1 per bracket but has a melee attack at the same profile
Brackets better now (first one is 0-6)
Has warmaster, 2 casts/2 unbinds
The new units are added to Soul Amphorae
New rampage to turn a terrain piece into overgrown
Ghyran's wrath CA is goneI think that's it
Edit: Also the Talon damage isn't ignored on a 1-5 now too
She also gained an attack on her Antlers, so coupled with the Spear having a melee profile, she now has 6 Rend 2 Damage 5 attacks (up from 4.) Talk about a hitter.
To note, she almost certainly still has 3 casts and unbinds but the potato cam quality makes it look like it's 2/3.
She also lost knowing all lore spells but it's almost a guarantee they just moved her knowing them all to the actual lore itself ala Nagash, so effectively just codifying that recent FAQ that made it so she could only use/know the entire Sylvaneth lore in a Sylvaneth army.
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She's definitely improved, assuming that she kept her 3 casts (potato cam angle makes it look like a 2 but it's probably still a 3 as her unbinds are still 3.) She lost her command ability which isn't great obviously but given re-rolls have been disappearing everywhere that isn't a surprise. Her Spear now also has max 5 Damage instead of 6. However, she now;
1) Gets a Spear attack in melee.
2) Gained an extra Antler attack.
3) Her talon no longer negates itself on any roll except a 6.
Meaning her overall damage output shot way up! Give her +1 to-hit and all those Spear and Antler attacks are hitting and wounding on 2s at Rend 2 with Damage 5; she effectively gained 50% more melee output, which is pretty crazy when you consider those attacks are super high quality.As others have noted, she doesn't have access to the entire spell lore per her warscroll but that's because they've been moving those sorts of abilities to the actual spell lores in books, so she probably still has the entire Sylvaneth lore but, much like what the FAQ already did to her, she only gets access to if it she's taken in a Sylvaneth army (i.e. she works the same way Nagash does.) Her new monstrous rampage is also really cool, allowing us to create even more overgrown terrain as some of us had suspected. She can now also summon those new units coming out; the Archers at minimum will be a good alternative summon option. Gaining Warmaster is nice and expected.
Overall, thumbs up - provided her points don't trend upwards too much. She's going to hit like a truck with those two extra Damage 5 attacks in combat, though she of course retains her classic weakness to massed mortal wounds. Very exciting stuff though, this looks to be her best incarnation yet!
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Yeah that definitely makes Doomfires more attractive.
I'm very excited for Blood Sisters given what I've read. Am I right in understanding they now do their mortal wounds after they attack and not at the end of the phase? If that's the case, with the roll now also being on a 2+, that's a pretty hefty boost.
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9 minutes ago, Rebluff said:
Draichi+Gladiatrix was already a thing though, wasn't it? That's the one combo that received almost no changes.
It's interesting that your problem is output because historically, I haven't had any problem killing something once I got stuck in with it, I struggled having more than 4 witch aelves left at the end of my opponent's first shooting phase. 😔
Huh, it was too 😅 shows how little incentive I had before to swap from Hagg Nar! I guess the big change from the old book is more the Gladiatrix herself, Rend 1 in the current meta is a bit eh but Rend 2 (up to 3 with Mindrazor) is the sweet spot.
Well they die to shooting anyway, not much can change that, especially now the 5++ bubble is gone (though being able to stack Blood Rite bonuses onto one unit to get that early is nice.) My problem was they bounced right off anything with a 2+ or 3+ save, and after facing three Stormcast lists in my last two-dayer that's a big concern for me - I'm ok with them being glass, but the problem was they weren't really cannons either in my experience.
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The Lady of Vines is so darn good at first glance. 10 wounds non-degrading that isn't a monster is a bit iffy, but she is pretty darn tough as-is - especially if you get her (incredible) spell off. Her damage output is really good when you consider she has a 3" reach and thus can safely attack over screens, and her shooting attack is fine. A good two cast wizard with a built-in summon is already worth a fair bit, and then you add that she gives out a Wyldwood buff aura on a very big base - which makes her spell even better practically - and she looks like a genuinely great utility/jack-of-all-trades hero. We need to see the Wyldwood rules to get a better idea but I'm loving her rules so far.
I'm still positive but a bit more mixed on Durthu. Extra 2 wounds, vastly improved damage table, etc are all great. The Talon change is actually a massive boost to his average output as it's two 2+ 2+ -2 3 Damage attacks, whereas before you had to roll a 6 to do anything worthwhile with it, and this compensates for losing an attack near a wood. The stomp being a rampage isn't great though, as now only one Treelord can do it, Hunters are immune to it (i.e. the things you'll often really want it against) and it's in place of another rampage - but it's on a 3+ now so more reliable when you need it. The flat Damage 2 on his shooting attack is also nice, but I'm not sure those changes justify the big points increase he got. Will definitely need to see what the book offers him in terms of traits and allegiance stuff to judge his full value, but overall, I'm happy with him.
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I'm loving the changes or lack thereof in some cases, and it does look like build diversity got a big boost. Gladiatrix + Witches in Draichi Ganeth, snakes in Zanthar Kai, or just the ever strong Khelt Nar and Hagg Narr for less specific builds all sound enticing to me - much better than the previous book where I only liked two temples. Draichi Ganeth and the Gladiatrix solve my biggest issue with Witches (anemic damage into high saves) so that's likely what I'll try first, as my Witches have been retired for far too long.
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Nighthaunt.
The whole army flies. The whole army can retreat and charge. Multiple units can innately teleport. There's a hero that can teleport himself and a friendly unit, and there's another hero that can duplicate that ability to slingshot itself and another unit across the board. Almost everything (there's like two exceptions) in the army moves at least 8", and there's one unit that can move 24". They inflict random, awesome debuffs - such as strikes last - on units they charge. Hell, you can even ambush/deep strike a couple units for free.They are the flying army, and have more mobility tricks than almost any other faction - and did I mention it's an army of GHOSTS!?
Say it with me;
Nighthaunt. -
As I've discussed in depth before, Blissbarbs are in an unfortunate spot where dropping them too much can break the army, as - especially with this new update - making them too cheap would make getting to those high Depravity totals all too easy. Acting like a minor drop to them would leave them in a "bad spot" is a bit disingenuous as they're already one of our best units.
Keepers should be around the 360-380 mark I think, maybe a bit cheaper.
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As much as I wish bow Kurnoths were on a 3+ to-hit and maybe with -2 Rend, when you look at how durable they are it makes sense why their damage is quite anemic compared to units like Vanguard-Raptors. Raptors are highly lethal but also super fragile, and are going to fold if anything catches them. Bow Kurnoths can happily contest a backfield objective thanks to their three models counting as six and their stock 3+ save, meaning if you can contest from cover then few things are going to dislodge them easily. Raptors also oft die after a few rounds of shooting - if they don't it usually means they did their job too well! - whereas bow Kurnoths are more likely to survive a game and thus contribute damage through all five rounds.
In that sense, it makes sense why bow Kurnoths are designed the way they are and priced the way they are. How good they really are will come down to allegiance stuff as always.
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2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
Nagash (GW) found a way into my wallet next weekend, for sure.
Do you think he fits better into the army with the new book than before?
AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion
in Death
Posted
If a command ability doesn't have a listed range and can affect other units beside the user, it uses the standard ranges for command abilities - so wholly within 12" from a hero, or wholly within 18" from a general. Seeing as Nagash always counts as a general, in this case it's effectively got a wholly within 18" range.