Bloodmoon

Archaon is fantastic everywhere. If you take him in Khorne you lose knowing the turn order, as well as most of his other utility that comes from Host of the Everchosen, but in return you get a beatstick that can kill pretty much anything with his buffs up, as well as fighting upwards of 3 times in a turn which is insane. So it's essentially whether you prefer killing power or utility for him.

having just played new Tzeentch, it certainly seems like we're gonna have a bad time. With very very careful play I think we can still win, but its certainly more effort than the Tzeentch player has to go through.

@Wulfrik the Wandererthats a really interesting way to use them. Do you mind giving us the full list? I also agree that Nurgle is probably the best mark as long as you have a warshrine, otherwise I think Khorne wins out just because all it relies on is the general.

oh you cant just post a result like that and not show us the list!

@whispersofbloodbecause of my early double turn, it meant my entire army was sat on the OBJs, and there wasnt really any of the trademark "dance around the slow enemy while they hoof it at you"strategy, which is why he was forced to engage. I explained positioning poorly, its a bit hard over text. The FAQ changes nothing about how my list plays, it just means its slightly less likely for me to get a double turn early on. If we fought again(and I certainly plan to) I think both of us would have learned from the experience, as that was actually my very first game against IDK ever. now that I realize more what his army can do, and i've improved the list I run by adding a CSL in place of 5 CW(lets be honest, an extra 5 models isnt gonna help anything, certainly not more than full rerolls to hit/wound/save that the sorc can put out)I think it would still be very very winnable for either of us, but I think I would have the advantage because of drop count, less reliance on charges, and control over the turn order.

Battleplan was Starstrike. The lists were as such: Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: Host of the Everchosen (First Circle)LeadersArchaon the Everchosen (800)- General- Aura of Chaos: Khorne- Spell: Binding DamnationBe'Lakor (240)- Spell: Mask of DarknessChaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)- Artefact: Rune Blade- Mark of Chaos: KhorneBattleline10 x Chaos Warriors (200)- Hand Weapon & Shield40 x Chaos Marauders (300)- Axes & Darkwood Shields5 x Chaos Knights (180)- Cursed Lances Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 112 vs +Tidecaster -General -Born From Agony +Soulrender -Cloud of Midnight +Soulscryer +Akhelian King -Ghyrstrike +2x10 Thralls +2x10 Reavers 2x6 Shock Eels 1x3 Kingsguard Eels its gonna be a bit of a rough battle report because it was several weeks ago; apologies. I finished deploying first, focusing mostly on the left side of the board. Belakor and Archaon were screened on all sides by Marauders, while my knights set up to the right of them, still close to Archaon, with the Chaos Lord behind them. Chaos Warriors went even farther left, in front of the marauders. I marked one unit of Shock Eels with Be'lakor. He set up almost diagonal to me, with one unit of reavers and one unit of thralls in the water with the soulscryer, shock eels, and king on the diagonal side, kingsguard eels opposite Archaon, along with the tidecaster and soulrender behind them. I gave him first turn and he ran his eels to the right, hiding behind a big piece of terrain, along with his king. He moved his two heroes on the left slightly forward, and got the reavers into range of my CW, shooting and killing one and wounding another, which was super unlucky for me. That was it for his turn, so it went over to me. I used By My Will(mistake here, I should have waited until I knew Mask of Darkness went off to use it) on the Marauders, then used Dark Prophecy and got the 4+. I tried to cast Mask of Darkness to teleport the marauders, but failed. I ran the Marauders up the right side, along with the knights and the chaos lord. Be'lakor followed behind them, while the chaos warriors and Archaon went left(this ended up working out, but it was a mistake in hindsight I think, it meant a lot of my stuff was without their buffs) I revealed Dark Prophecy and took the double turn, using By My Will again, along with The Knights of Chaos on my knights. I didn't even try to cast Mask of Darkness here, which was really stupid because if I did I would have killed a whole Eel unit. As it was, I moved them up to get a guaranteed charge because of their charge ability, while the knights ran into the unit of Eels I didn't mark. Archaon moved to engage the two characters, and the CWs charged the reavers. The Obj ended up in the center, and I held it with Be'lakor. It was High tide so he got to swing first, which combined with some luck hurt me really bad here. He swung with the unmarked shock eels unit, and killed all my knights with the help of his once-per-game MW effect. It was really painful to have that happen, because I was relying on that damage on the eel unit to help me later in the game. As it was I just had to deal, and the rest of his swings didnt really do much. He killed some Marauders, but I got an eel and a bit in return, so that was ok. He popped his artefact so I couldn't target his soulrender, and his other character bounced off Archaon. I got to swing after that, oblitorated the tidecaster, and got another eel with my Marauders. They were really strung out because of prior positioning, so it was only a few swinging at a time, which is why it was a big mistake to not try to teleport - with more of them getting in, the eel unit would have been dead. The CWs and reavers flailed at each other, I killed a fair few but the soulrender brought them back later. he took his turn and I thought I was ******. My Chaos lord was almost certainly dead if he commited a unit of eels to it, and that was a good half of my army deleted in the second turn. However, I think he made a mistake here, or rather, underestimated the chaos lord. He only sent his King to deal with him, and sent the second unit of eels to free up the marked unit from Marauders. He kept his soulrender in combat, which was a big mistake because I got a free kill out of it, and kept his reavers in. he charged his king in and failed his d3 MWs roll, then charged in his eel unit. His king swung first, bringing my chaos lord down to 3 wounds remaining(I dont think the MW roll would have mattered here because the MWs statistically wouldn't have killed the chaos lord, but if he got really lucky it could have.) His charging eel unit swung and killed a lot of the marauders, leaving me with only slightly above 20 to keep my rend, and I pulled them in such a way to get his marked eel unit out of combat, while swinging at the two units and doing some plink damage. (again if Archaon had been on this side, i think I could have won the flank much easier than I ended up doing, which would have pretty much ended the game right there) his soulrender bounced off, and his reavers didnt do much of value that I can remember. Archaon obliterated the soulrender, the CWs killed a few more reavers, and my Chaos Lord swung into the King, bringing him down to a handful of wounds remaining. We rolled off and I kept priority, the second OBJ coming down on Archaons side of the board(pure luck there), and the third coming down on the far right side. I failed all my casts, retreated my Marauders onto the center OBJ to screen Be'lakor, flew Archaon over to finish off the reavers and ensure I got the left obj, used By My Will again on the chaos lord, and stayed in combat with him. I swung with the chaos lord first and finished off the king, rolling on the eye of the gods table and clinching a 12. I set up my brand new demon prince while he goggled at me, and put the chamon blade on its malefic talons. This here was the roll that made up for my positioning errors earlier in the game, and I don't know if I would have won without it. I think I would have, but it would have been very close indeed. He swung with reavers and bounced, and Archaon cleaned them up. On his turn I revealed Be'lakors target, which put him in a terrible position. He had scored 0 points thus far, and I was ahead by a ton. The only thing he could capture the far right obj with was either his unmarked eel unit, or his units in the water. he elected to put his eels on the right side to get some points, and put his units from the water near my DP, and marked my Marauders with his characters ability, making it a 6" charge to get to them. he moved his kingsguard up, a unit that I had ignored up until this point, and charged Archaon. he got the charge off with his thralls and reavers, getting into both the tattered remains of my Marauders and Belkaor. he took about 5 wounds off Archaon with the kingsguard, and I swung back and did horrible, I think the worst rolling I've ever done. I ended up doing 4 damage with the lashing tails of all things, mostly because of his ignoring rend and 3+ save, leaving me with a pretty big problem of my 800pt model unable to get anywhere unless he chewed through the unit. This was also a mistake because there was no reason to swing with Archaon here, instead I should have gone with Be'lakor. He swung with thralls, getting a few into my Marauders and most into Be'lakor. most of the Marauders died to that, while Be'lakor was a complete disappointment, failed every single save and died. He finished off the Marauders with reavers after they flailed with 4s/4s, and held two obj at the end of his turn. I won priority, and had to make some risky plays at this point to win. Archaon cast arcane bolt, doing 1 MW to the eels in combat with him, then used his Nurglesque head to deal 3 MWs and finish that one off, finally casting the Realm spell Transmutation and killing the last Eel with 2 5s. I used the DPs command ability to halve all charge and run rolls near me, and flew over to the thralls, while Archaon barreled in, finally leaving the left flank to actually do something with himself. The DP fought first and wiped the thralls, then Archaon picked up the reavers. I now controlled two obj, leaving me with a massive points lead. His turn he couldnt get his unmarked unit of eels anywhere, so moved the (now) free to act unit up to my DP, charging it. the DP swung at the start of the combat phase and killed two of the eels, but the remainder killed him in return. Archaons crown of domination lowered their bravery by 2, and they ran away. At that point we called it because even with one model to my name I had such a huge points lead even if he somehow tabled me I would win. This is a very rough report for aformentioned reasons, but I hope it shows what i'm saying. Mistakes on my part were propped up by good luck, which was somewhat countered in my mind by some atrocious rolls on my saves(looking at you be'lakor, should have lived)

agreed @Petroos, I can see someone not liking the way the book plays, but I think plenty of people will.

I think you're going a bit far with that. You can't really say the army isn't fun to play, because thats completely subjective. I personally have plenty of fun with the army, and I also don't think its bad competitively at all. Its not spikey in terms of damage, and its not flashy or as overwhelmingly good as PE, but it is very consistent with full rerolls, low to hit/wound, and decent rend. I can say with full confidence it can compete with good players with good lists, as I was fortunate enough to go against a very good IDK player, and managed to beat him by top of 5, with an army you're saying cant even win mid-tables. I think you're overreacting to a set of nerfs to a specific way of playing the army. I think some things are almost needed (Be'lakor being the thing that won me the aformentioned game, can't see myself ever not taking him) as well as warshrines/maruaders/sorcs, but there certainly is good, competitive options in the book. Is it perfect? No. But its on the same level as most of the books in the game, and thats fine by me.

I really dont feel like the book is bad at all. Things are expensive, sure, but the buffs are very good(reroll all hits/wounds/saves is common) and units tend to be tanky or damaging, and compared to other books we are much better off. I think everyone might be a bit overreacting to the nerfs here, the army isnt unplayable at all, much less terrible.

@WargamerRyguyit is not, sadly

Archaons nerf is fine. He was already very very strong with the ability to control the turn order, now he still can, its just a 50% chance for a double turn instead of a 60-70% chance.

@drcrater I think everyone underestimates them too, they're as tough or tougher than Mortek Guard point-for-point, especially if you start stacking buffs on them, and they hit fine. Not great, but when you have ****** behind them(or you start sending MWs back with the nurgle CA) they dont need to hit hard.

you are still the only person using the exalted hero that I have ever seen, and I love it. Does he consistently preform?

I would go with shields. Because of 25mm bases you can get 2 ranks fighting anyway, and the extra attack+extra save is pretty important. Having a 6+ save sucks lol

Its honestly why I enjoy playing with Archaon so much - control over the turn order is the most powerful thing in this game, and using it well means you can win games exceptionally quickly.

I feel the same way. There are a ton of tools in the book to make sure every fight is on your terms, and I think thats how its going to play as an army.

What do you guys think of Archaon? Or more specifically, Archaon in Host of the Everchosen. People have told me he isnt competitive, but I think in a correctly built list his control over the turn order could completely break games in your favor. (along with making Marauders even better cause they dont take BS)