[Fights First/Fights Last after December FAQ]

25 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Ok - so both abilities happen at the start of the combat phase and the player whose turn it is triggers their ability first.  So, if the Bloodlord General's ability says he fights at the start of the combat phase then logically, he would do the fighting (which is what the ability is) before Durthu can stomp because his ability works first. 

Using the same logic, though, this also means that if it is the Sylvaneth player's turn, he triggers Durthu's stomp but then the Bloodlord General's ability would trigger second thus over-riding the stomp. 

It would appear that Durthu's stomp cannot affect a unit that has an "attack at the start of the combat phase" ability. 

This would seem to imply that, according to this ruling, no "strike last" ability can stop a "Strike first" ability, whosever turn it is.  

Not sure that this is the intent, but this appears to be the result of the FAQ.

 

 

 

Except that Durthu's stomp is *also* a "Start of Phase" ability, which is why I assumed whoever's turn it is would get priority.

It *seems* the FAQ clarification only applies when these effects are applied in different phases, or different sub-phases in the case of the combat phase (i.e., "Start of Phase," "Combat Phase," and "End of Phase."

[Fights First/Fights Last after December FAQ]

6 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

I have double-checked the core rules and FAQ and concede that I was mistaken.  It does say that the player whose turn it is do their abilities first; they just decide the order in which they do their own, not the order between them and their opponent.  My mistake.  Thanks for pointing it out.  Up to now, It hasn't been an issue, but this has muddied the waters - sounds like a case of unintended consequences.

OK, this is my point.  So if it is the Bloodlords player turn, his attacks would occur first rather than Durthu's stomp.  If it is the Sylvaneth turn, they'd get to roll for Durthu's stomp before the Bloodlords General attacked.  That was the rule based on a priority article put out by GW (link available on request).

BUT this new FAQ uses the example of Locus of Diversion and Smashing and Bashing.  The locus specifically says it occurs in the Charge phase and then S&B occurs in the combat phase.  Clearly a case where the *new* effect takes place instead of the *previous* effect.

So does this new ruling change what happens when BOTH effects occur "At the Start of the Combat Phase"? Do the previously released priority rules still apply? OR - as I suggested in my original post - is it the counter-intuitive effect that whoever's turn it is LOSES priority to the other player (which is stupid)? 

"It's my turn.  Start of the combat phase, I attack first."

"At the start of the combat phase, I can make you attack last."

"OK, but since it's my turn, I attack first."

"Yeah, but since it's not my turn, my attack last effect comes after yours and you now have to attack last even though it's your turn."

See the confusion here?

[Fights First/Fights Last after December FAQ]

Based on 3 different perspectives here, I'd at least say this is not an intuitive ruling.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I honestly don't know how many effects there are that make an enemy unit attack last in the combat phase, but it seems the FAQ's "clarification" on attack first abilities limits the primary reason to take the Bloodlords,

[Fights First/Fights Last after December FAQ]

I think this new "clarification" is more opaque than before.  Let me propose a common scenario in our club: Khorne Bloodlords vs. Sylvaneth.  Bloodlords General attacks at the start of the combat phase.  Spirit of Durthu does a stomp at the start of the combat phase that makes a unit fight last.

Prior to the December FAQ, whoever's turn it was took priority.  On Khorne's turn, he'd strike first.  On Sylvaneth's turn, the stomp could go off before Khorne attacked first, dumping him to the end of the sequence.  Pretty simple.

Has this new FAQ changed that in any way? Because if effects are resolved in player turn order, it seems the above scenario is now *reversed.*  For example, Khorne player turn: General attacks first because it's his turn.  At "start of phase," Durthu successfully stomps.  That effect occurred second, so now Khorne General attacks last in his combat phase.  However, on Sylvaneth player turn, stomp goes off first because it's his turn, and then Khorne supercedes the effect and goes first because it is applied second.

Am I reading this right? Is this as counter-intuitive as it seems?

[Controlling Objectives at Setup]

It does.  Thanks.  No offense taken.  I've been playing AoS for 4 years.  it's not at all uncommon in a game whose rules are as loose as this to play things incorrectly for years.  My position makes perfect narrative sense, so I never questioned it.  Nor did my friend till someone at a con pointed it out to him.  So I wanted to check. 

[Controlling Objectives at Setup]

Disagreement at our club last night.

If you start a unit on an objective at setup and then move away on turn 1, do you control the objective? I think the answer is yes; another person said you don't start controlling them and if you move away on turn 1, you never controlled it.  (He got that from a NOVA TO.)

Thoughts?

[Which army do you use at tournaments and why?]

43 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

My first (and only complete) army is Sylvaneth and I'm looking to participate in more tournaments next year.  I've gone 1-2 in my only individuals tournament and then 3-0 in a doubles tournament this year and I've had a lot of fun playing.  I got the army because my wife and I really loved the models in that line so that's why I play trees.  I also enjoy how they play with summoning terrain and teleporting.  

I do have some Tzeentch daemons and I'll be slowly expanding that army when the new book drops because I like the concept of endless spells and want to use them more.  I have to expand into that army slowly because I'm also getting into 40K for the first time with Adepta Sororitas.

Love my trees.  You hate trees?  Get off my lawn.    

I hate trees...but only because I lose to them all.  The. Time.

My friend's Sylvaneth army went 3-2 at NOVA this year.  My Khorne army went 1-4.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

I'm not on the StD train yet, so I suggest a unit of Wrathmongers and the Icon for the hell of it.   Not sure about general, though.

[Which army do you use at tournaments and why?]

I only attend 1-3 tournaments each year and still consider myself a tournament newbie (especially since I usually do poorly).

I run BoK for the practical reason that it was the only army I owned until recently.  However, I also would have chosen it because I like the scary demons and the blood and because it's fun to kill lots of things even if I lose.

I find that many players find the army scary - for the 1st 2 rounds anyway!

[How to stop losing]

6 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Not saying that's bad advice, just chiming in FWIW -

I have 3 (4 with skarbrand) bloodthirsters. I use Tyrants and Murderhost.

They don't help against Seraphon.

Funny.  I run 4 w/Skarbrand, Tyrants and no Murderhost.  I've never lost against Seraphon with this list.

I'm just saying it's more than just the lists involved.

To add to the conversation, I second Bloodlords and more 'thirsters.  Prioritize Flesh Hounds over 'letters.  I ditched the Bloodletters, replaced them with reavers that often never leave the backfield, and added 5 Wrathmongers.  (I also don't use a 'secrator because I prefer 2 priests.)