Sinfullyvannila
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Posts posted by Sinfullyvannila
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2 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Explain what you mean by bomb? Unless bomb is doing something outside the realm of wounds.
Either way wounds are allocated 1 at a time. So they die one model at a time. So the unit size can always stay within 30 models.
Let's say you take 10 wounds.the first 3 wounds you give to a pink, a brim, and a blue. Then you give the next 5 to apink, 2 blues, and then 2 brims. Lastly you could just kill a pink and a blue. Leaving you under 30 models.
1) Bombing = Petty vengeance. Instead of Split and Split you can use Petty Vengeance when a pink dies to deal a Mortal on a 5+
2) If you have any Pinks you have to allocate wounds to them before Blues; And even if that weren't the case, wounds are applied before models are removed. So you can't apply the wounds to the split models until all the models are removed from that set of attacks.
Edit: let me double check how much of #2 still applies in 3e. Yep, still checks out. Most people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how allocating damage, slaying and removing models works. This is because of bad habits they pick up from watching battle reports. People work under the assumption that you apply wounds and remove models many times during the attack sequence. But you dont apply wounds to models until ALL attacks are resolved. And models arent removed until all the damage is applied to the unit.
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2 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Okay so I've listed to a lot of youtubers recently as my best way to keep my foot in Warhammer while I'm busy. Sorry if this is said before, but I don't think it has been from my daily nosing about in here.
In 3.0 I don't really see how pinks are "dead". Sure max unit size can't go beyond starting unless a rule change. However, the pinks can still take advantage of almost all of thier splitting.
What you lose is the ability to get the unit size to explode quickly by killing lots of pinks first.
That said wounds are still applied 1 at a time...meaning the pink dies per wound, then can immediately flow into blues and brims. This means in a 30man pink unit. When the first pink dies it splits into 1blue, and then 1 brim.
After that you are no long maxed and each pink can die counting all 5 wounds. If you want to load up on blues you can just wait till 15 pinks die for instance and hold onto 14+ blues as your other pinks start dying.
You never gave to go over 30 to gain just about all of your wounds.
Maybe I'm missing something. This is very possible as I'm only casually following this conversation.
Bomb half of them, don't half-split. If you split into 1 blue, you will keep having to split them into 1 blue until you lose all your pinks. Meaning you lose out on 20 wound. If you bomb every other(1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19) one you still lose out on 20 wounds per 10 but youre also doing mortals. Also, if you never bomb you can't bring them back with your Icon Bearers. So you're probably better off just bombing the first 3 if you have a 1 on your DD.
And yeah, I got them mixed up with the 40k ones so you do have to bomb them unfortunately.
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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:
I've heard Gors being called better these days. Colonel Cabbage was talking about Gors vs Bestigors and he made good points. 75 points, rr charges, 4+ in combat. And they die just like Bestigors. His point was Bestigors (in 10 anyway) do less than you expect so the points difference is really noticeable. I mean, just to consider. I'm all for looking at things.
Yeah I was kids surprised at poo-pooing on Gors yet. Aren't they pretty much strictly better than Ungors in MSU now? I really don't agree with the comparison to Bestigors though. Isn't the whole point of them that they don't scale with model count so you can take them or leave them at 10? Also, they actually do quite good damage at 10, and you'd want to be running MSU hammers this edition since the opposition can only All out defence once per round now.
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On 6/26/2021 at 2:45 PM, Chaos Shepard said:
I also like how they call out Raiders and Skyfires as being "very capable when operating in there minimum unit size". You know like all those ranged units suffering from the new coherency rules... what.
Nevermind that Raiders can no long group up to gain rerolls, and Skyfires want to group up so they can active as a group to take advantage of Guided by the Future.
Ive never actually thought of running them in more than 3s for GFTF because I usually activate one of my groups on the unit I used the Taurus on.
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2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:
Hey guys,
So, I have a question about the Gaunt Summoner. I read that in general he's way over costed and basically unplayable. I'm kind of new to Tzeentch as I've been building an Arcanite army slowly over the past month or so but I find him to be very compelling. He's 255pts (that's a lot), but he is a double caster with a pretty good horde spell and he brings 25 wounds on the table for free, whenever he wants to. That's not nothing. What am I missing here?
Now, with the new points, my 1k list Arcanite got all fussed up and I was thinking of still taking this guy in my 1k list. Would look a little like this:
PYROFANE CULT
1x Fatemaster (General) - 135pts
1x Ogroid Thaumaturge - 165pts
1x Gaunt Summoner - 255pts1x20 Kairic Acolytes - 150pts
1x10 Tzangors - 195pts1000pts flat.
I feel like Gaunt Summoner is a good addition to my list as I get more spell casting and he does bring 25 wounds on the table. Am I missing something obvious about him?
Thanks
Whoever told you hes overcosted is nuts. All I can think of is that maybe after our costs got increased in last GHB he couldnt fit into Changehost as well as Fatemaster.
For your list, drop the Thaumaturge for literally anything else.
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On 6/26/2021 at 9:13 AM, Ganigumo said:
Got a game in with a trogg list against nurgle, we got a few rules wrong and didn't have the full ghb or secondary rules.
I ran
Dankhold with loonskin and glowy howzit
Hag with amulet of destiny
Madcap shaman with itchy nuisance
Webspinner shaman with sneaky distraction
9 rockguts
6 fellwaters
3 fellwaters
10 hoppers
5 spider riders
I ended up losing by 1 point at the end but it was very close even though I nearly tabled my opponent.
My thoughts:
Hoppers are still super weak and don't get mortals when retreating now (faq pending)
Fellwaters still underperform for me, and in the new edition rend 1 just isn't enough. Unleash hell is cool on them but the damage is very swingy on the vomits.
Rockguts are huge winners, rend 2, you can stack +1 to hit and the troggboss CA (since the boss is the target of his own CA) and they take +1 save super well.
Troggboss is just as inconsistent in combat as ever, you could do a combat build but loonskin's extra CP is super valuable.
Hag is phenomenal with amulet of destiny, she's just unmoveable without a significant amount of burst damage.
5 strong spider riders are useful as screens, fast objective grabbers, and backline objective holders but still do nothing in combat/shooting.
I actually had a game against Nurgle this weekend. It did not go so well. But it was a 500 point escalation and there's only so much 9 models can do against a summoning army at 500 points. It also doesnt help when my rockguts failed all their saves an 12/14 wards on one turn.
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I think perhaps scalpers may not be getting the returns they expect from GW boxes since they started releasing models a lot earlier than people expect after the box set released. The OBR line got a full release like; 2 weeks after Feast of Bones and people were expecting like 3 months for those. Indomitus got the MTO treatment. Cursed City models got released and nobody was expecting that to happen at all.
Also I dont think anyone should worry about the popularity of the game. Even though its considerably less popular than 40k, it still absolutely dwarfs most other games.
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4 hours ago, Brad999 said:
I agree the BoC units shouldn't be taken as cheaper but the allegiance ability states tzeentch unit, which is what they still are on their warscroll. So if you took tzaangors as an ally they still can have DD dice used with them.
Unless they're allies or coalition the army doesnt even get Allegiance abilities period.
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8 hours ago, Dingding123 said:
Honestly that's still fine with me. It's not like the Loonshrine is relevant all that often anyway, plus 6 Squigs aren't gonna turn a game around haha. If I were dead set on running reinforced Herds I'd be miffed.
Edit: autocorrect Moonshine lol
I flip games with 3 Screamers all the time. Dont underestimate resurrected units.
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6 hours ago, Clise said:
They are allies at least for now and I dont see that changing in the future. But do you even need to take them as allies, they presumably still have the tzeentch faction keyword and therefore you can just take them without it counting against allied points. The slaves to darkness mutalith vortex beast doesnt have to be allied in at all since it also has the tzeentch keyword. Based on the soublight and dominion boxset warscrolls there appears to be no change to how faction keywords function in the new edition.
Keywords have absolutely nothing to do with Faction selection anymore. Your faction is now the pitched profile list you pick at the start of the game, units that you pay for on that list have access to your allegiance abilities. Allies do not. Right now there are references to a mechanic called Coaltitions that needs to be clarified. If you can take the units from BoC they wont benefit from your faction abilities(Destiny Dice, agendas).
The Soulblight book is worded the way it is because otherwise it would simply not have functioned in 2e. Dominion warscrolls are irrelevant because literally every single warscroll unit size is overwritten in their matched play profiles.
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On 6/20/2021 at 9:46 PM, Jabbuk said:
Would this be also true for Enlightened on Disc? They have a reach of 2", I feel like they could still all be in coherency and hit. Did I misunderstand the new rule?
Enlightened should still trade up against most units even if you lose out on the teeth with half of them as long as you are getting the extra attack from the agenda and are using a Fatemaster. They still just suffer from Flamers simply being the better choice.
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On 6/20/2021 at 8:55 AM, Ganigumo said:
It used to, but FW would always release their version of updated points after the ghb anyways and they weren't always the same.
The issue with dankhold's internal balance issues is they they're only about as effective as 3 rockguts/fellwaters but cost a chunk more. Maybe the new coherency helps with it thanks to their grabs but I'm skeptical.
Unleash hell fellwaters is great, and rockguts with all out defense and maybe a webspinner behind to give -1 to hit is going to be a nasty anvil.
There's not really a lot we can do with 40 points anymore since our spells went up, so he should be a fairly safe replacement if we have the extra point. Probably never worth taking a second one though because then youre using up an extra 80 points and then theyre competing with the Madcap shaman who can pump out a rend with his artifact.
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5 hours ago, Latetotheparty said:
I’m new to AOS so forgive a noobie question.
I just found out that according to gw Furies go on 25mm bases. Mine are mounted on the 32mm ones that came in the box. Is it worth it to rebase them?
I understand the advantage of mounting say marauders on 25mm. But is it worth the hassle for the furies? I’m not a tournament player btwI would say dont worry about it, it almost certainly an oversight since neither them nor Raptoryx were added to the Slaves of Darkness unit list. There is a faux pax to model for advantage, but basing a model on the bases that GW currently packages them in does not fall into that. Even in the base size chart it says it only matters in matched play, and from my experience, nobody actually strictly uses all the matched play rules unless they are in a tournament or practicing for one.
Also, if someone calls you out for something this minor its going to be a red flag that they arent worth playing with anyway.
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I feel like hoppers are our biggest losers unfortunately. 5s and 15s seemed to be best way too run them and they don't have 2"attacks. I'd actually rather use 5 spider riders over 10 hoppers even in a Squig list since Hoppers rarely benefited from synergy anyway.
I honestly kinda thought that Squig Herds points increase is pretty fair if you run a Squig General and maxing out their numbers makes a lot of sense.
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17 hours ago, Fyrenn said:
Maybe this is a better 3.0 question, but how are you getting so many spells and so much equipment? I had thought we only get one spell now (not one per wizard) so to get a second spell we'd need to use the enhancement for it?
So basically there would be on Command Trait, Artifact, and Spell - and then you can get either an additional artifact or spell with the warlord battalion?
The spells are covered in the margin note next to the spell lores entry.
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If I ran Bestigors I would suicide pile-in to get all the attacks if the unit had more than 9 models. I put them in my list assuming they wont survive the round they get into combat anyway.
I do think that footsie enlightened do look pretty good this edition though.
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I cant find it, its possible that it was faqed in the old book, or more likely i was just wrong.
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Ill double check but I think the scribes got FAQed. Fate Points are an allegiance ability so allies cant do it.
Nevermind, I cant be right about Belakor because it affects your opponents wizard too.
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13 hours ago, Brad999 said:
OK, I must admit dead on arrival is a bit extreme. I know a big faq due and horrors will get changed but currently cant go above starting models, fleeing is not killed and way too many ways to stop inspiring to force a battleshock. You also cant zone as much with them
Worst case scenario is we only have to bomb one of our Pink Horrors instead of splitting it.
Things arent going to be hitting our Horrors as hard as they used to either with coherency and its still 10 bravery and an autopass on 1s for our Icon Bearer.
Horrors are so much better off than most 32mil models in this edition its not even funny. The sky is most certainly not falling for them.
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13 hours ago, Brad999 said:
This is true, take kairos, blue scribes and belakor and if all spells go off, with reroll spells, you get a LoC on turn 1 which is a huge amount of points. Then by turn 3 you are around the point of another.
Be'lakor doesnt generate Fate Points and TBS doesn't get one from his sigle die-roll spell FYI. I'd still definitley take TBS though.
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12 hours ago, Brad999 said:
Yeah but no reason not to for all tzaangor on disc, I agree with people though, unless there are warscroll changes or points corrections tzeentch and slannesh are dead on arrival
Dead on arrival is a pretty huge stretch. We can still mob the board with horrors people cant retreat from. I dont think flamers hit as badly seeing as we can unleash hell and in some cases still hit on 3s.
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1 hour ago, Mutton said:
Their points are the same, they lost Look Out Sir, Cover, and can't hide behind obscuring terrain because of their Wounds. They're also not monsters. They're pretty bad. I wish it wasn't true, I have two of them, but such is the way of it.
Most unit's points went up so their points deflated.
Put those two bad boys on the table and your opponent is either going to lose a lot of models to coherence or lose out on a lot of efficiency to prevent it from happening.
Yeah he'd be awesome if he had like 3 more wounds or so. Also, he'd need a warscroll update do get the monster keyword so it's outside of the scope of a GHB release anyway.
So yeah, is he worth 50 points less than Angel lady? Absolutely not. Is he worth 40 more points than a Lord Arcanum on Gryph-Charger? Heck yes.
All that aside; he was always overcosted to mitigate the efficiency Rockguts and Fellwaters got anyway. They still came out ahead of the efficiency curve too.
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1 hour ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:
I’ve gotten lost in the back and forth re:StD and the Chaos Gods. I just got Archaon. Can I still build a TZ list around him?
Wait for the inevitable FAQ.
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55 minutes ago, Mutton said:
Dankholds continue to languish because some nutter at GW thinks they're fine.
Their points deflated and crushing grip got much better.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Honestly the whole "maximum unit size" needs to be clarified. The rules only describe Minimum Unit Sizes and reinforcement limits. Is the maximum size the number you bring at the start? Or is it the number at the reinforcement limit. In conversational English, context would make it the reinforcement limit; but we all seen to intuit it as the size you put on the table.