Sinfullyvannila
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Posts posted by Sinfullyvannila
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On 12/20/2019 at 11:43 AM, Neffelo said:
This exactly, I am unsure why @Sinfullyvannila doesn't quite understand that, and it has already happened before.
While I don't know if Tzaangors will be changed, I would not be surprised. Just adding in new subfaction rules can raise their power pretty significantly.
I am really hoping everything else in our book gets raised up, rather than just a Tzaangor nerf.
Don’t mistake my disagreement with misunderstanding.
The old changes were 1 1/2 year apart, on a 1 year change cycle. The hypothetical changes will be 1-3 months apart on a 1/2 year cycle
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1 hour ago, Korazell said:
I've read through this thread and I'm not sure if anyone else has taken a look at this, but, hear me out. I know we've got a ton of toys to play with, but, I think I have something that is worth considering...
Chickens.
Now wait! These aren't ordinary chickens! CHAOS Chickens.
For the min unit of 6 you get, on the charge, 18 3/3 `1 damage attacks. For a little more than a cultist unit. They are fast, too, decently sturdy with the wounds, no save, but they are quick and cheap and if my math-hammer is correct...they out-damage expensive options with a mobile footprint. Unless I'm missing something, and I probably am, I would rather sent these against my foes instead of any cultists and I mean, they work sort of like marauders lite since they don't get buffs. Which isn't bad, really. Means they can fight backline and other things.
Am I nuts or are these oddly good?
They don’t benefit from just about any buff or synergy.
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2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:
Well theres the obvious Gaunt Summoner since he can contribute to the Pink/Blue Horror Engine. Chaos Lords can have fun with the Daemonheart.
Just going to add out that the splits for the Pinks only work in a DoT army and Gaunt Summoner can work natively in that army(Any CHAOS, TZEENTCH unit can) without needing to ally.
You can accrue Blue and Brimstone fate points in any army but only DoT armies can spend Fate Points.
But yeah, the one on the disc is basically an autoinclude in DoT lists.
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25 minutes ago, Grimrock said:
The main reason why I expect it is most disciples lists have been revolving around tzaangors in one form or another since the book dropped (aside from changehost).
Changehost and horrors definitely got more popular after the nerfs to Tzaangors and Skyfires.
The problem isn’t with the TZAANGORS being too strong though. The problem is that all the daemons other than Horrors and Heroes aren’t bringing enough to the table.
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2 hours ago, Dreadmund said:
Lol okay man whatever. You do you. All I'm saying is that it's not as unlikely as you think that they might get some small changes. How you've turned that into "You are biased against beasts of chaos" is beyond me but if you need an outlet for rage I suggest youtube comments rather than TGA. It's a better void to shout into. All I'm going to say is that if you expect GW to be perfectly efficient with their updates and FAQs you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Does the logic of what you're saying make sense? Sure. Does it match how things have been done in the past? Nah.
Yeah, I don’t have anything to be enraged about because I don’t play BoC and I’m not going to Intentionally work myself up about hypothetical changes. I actually ideally wish Tzaangors got their first extra attack at 5 models and another at 25 so that they could compete better with Pinks at the same price point. But objectively I don’t see it happening.
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45 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:
Exactly. 4 profiles which are imminently due for an update. So why add them to the FAQ when warscrolls and points are due to be updated in a new printed publication? What's the rush?
Because they are currently relevant to a faction that you are ignoring.
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43 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Okay but by your logic, why not update all warscrolls for Tzeentch, Kharadron and Seraphon in the FAQ?
Not my logic because I’m only referring to unrestricted cross-faction units.
We’re talking about 4 warscrolls and point profiles here.
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5 hours ago, Neffelo said:
Not true. They could have new warscrolls and points value in DoT, which will then just retroactively change them in BoC. It did not need to be updated in the Winter FAQ for this to happen.
Well, any prediction by your criteria can’t be true; but why would they wait until the Tzeentch book comes out when it’s probably only going to be 4 months until the next GHB? And why would they wait until an updated faction book to nerf a different faction(Beasts of Chaos).
It’s not as if anything with the TZAANGOR keyword is broken. It’s just that Enlightened don’t have any competition in the Tzeentch faction for a hammer.
So I don’t say it with absolute certainty, but I’ll say it with the highest confidence; TZAANGORS aren’t going to be touched in the new DoT book.
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Anything Tzaangor is going to be unchanged. If they were going to change them for the book, they’d have just changed them in the Winter Ipdate for Beasts of Chaos.
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29 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:
I’m not sure you’re right bout varanguard.... 9 attacks hitting on 2s wounding on 3s (esp rerolling 1s) -2 rend n 3 damage a pop will rinse though most horde units. Not to mention buffs from which ever mark/aura you go for. Then there’s the second pile in if you need it.
It’s 20.42 damage on 5+. So you’d need the 2nd pile in.
A skilled opponent isn’t going to let you get that though.
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5 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:
Sorcerer Lord on Manticore should be autoinclude in every list
Yeah I have a hard time seeing otherwise. Which means an answer to shooting should probably be on every list too; because that thing is gonna get focused down quick.
I think that may actually be a reason to bring Untamed Beasts, since they can at least move forward before the first turn to hopefully block direct movement from shooters.
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3 hours ago, Frowny said:
I think everything but bloodletters has its uses
Deamonettes: killiest choice
Furies: fastest, interesting fallback option for screening
Plaguebearers: sturdiest
Pink horrors: 9 inch deploy gets them in range for endless spells turn 1 and with +1 to cast from being near the summoner himself. I think this will be strongest in a tzeentch arcanites. Makes a great screen even after their spell goes off. Anyone know if they can take a lore spell as well?
Pinks only get lores in Disciples of Tzeentch.
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10 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
Ok. I got it. What's about the other questions? (I copy/paste them again)
I noticed that the gaunt summoner is....NOT in the book, only the gaunt summoner on disc! That is strange. And that make him super expensive (260pts?). I know that kinda includes the cost of the summoned unit but it is not cheap.
Speaking about him:
- what is the best unit to summon? is there one that is far superior to others?
10 Pink Horrors
10 Bloodletters
10 Plaguebearers
10 Daemonettes
6 Furies- is there some other way to summon something in StD army?
- pink horrors: are they any good? they are wizzards, they only cast "Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield spells" ? they can't summon some other pink or ES?
Ravagers have a command ability that lets you summon Marauders or Cultists each turn.
One of the Eyes of the Gods rewards lets you summon the same units as the Gaunt Summoner.
Mutalith Vortex Beasts can convert enemy units with one of their mutation rolls.
Pinks can cast generic endless spells.
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45 minutes ago, BrocknerTheBear said:
Yeah a few people were running potential lists in front if me today and I had to tell them to re read it....the look on their faces was exactly the same as mine when I first saw it.
It almost feels like a faction specific to the "warriors of chaos" style units was just left out.
It’s ravagers. Your cultists and Marauders are auxiliaries.
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38 minutes ago, Naem said:
Well boys, now that the Battletome is there, are you satisfied with the rules? I am not quite sure to be frank, but I haven't played a game with the new rules yet, so of course I cant know for sure. But my impression is, that the units stats (that remained the same for big parts of the army) are still quite underwhelming. Especially for Knights I was hoping for some stark improvement. But maybe with all the auras and allegiances and magic stuff they can be pimped to be as scary as they should be.
So, what are your overall thoughts? Is the army now on even grounds with the newer mighty forces like Bonereapers or still rather meh from a competitive pov?
I haven’t gotten any games in with them and it will be a while. But coming from playing armies with glaring fundamental weaknesses(Tzeentch, Stormcast, Mawtribes, well Gutbusters); I think once the Sphiranx comes out we’ll have all the tools we need to win games against any faction, though of course some as an uphill battle. I think our only real weakness comes from overcosted battleline(Marauders aside) and that’s nothing that can’t be addressed.
Happy Daemon Princes got the buff they deserved lore-wise, REALLY happy with the Gaunt Summoner on Disc and both Chaos Sorcerer Lord changes, and happy our battline units(other than Chariots of course) can mix weapons.
Khorne or Slaanesh knights get pretty toothy with the Sorcerer Lord buff(or the Khorne Prayer). 10 of them with lances should delete heroes(faction bosses and Ethereal aside) and generic monsters with ease, and, assuming they don’t get bad luck, any MSU <20 wounds.
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9 minutes ago, Tali182 said:
I think the mixed weapons is fairly clear once you compare a few similar warscrolls.
The questions of logic come up when you consider the recent change to what GW did to 'ardboys seems like a little backflip in their stance on simplifying units, though in saying that they did not do it to brutes 🤷♂️
The bigger concern i have is it seems that every warriors unit going forward atm should have one model with a shield to gain access to MW saves because of the wording, which i would hate to see as it clearly is not in the spirit of the rule and would look odd to me (i am mainly in the hobby for the looks of it) This will hopefully be updated to match the way shields work for 'ardboys in that if you use the save you have to allocate the wounds to the model with that save.
Well, technically you’d need 2 shields, but I was planning on putting at least 3 halberds in any units of 15 or higher anyway.
i just shared the link because the ruling was merely referenced as opposed to cited before.
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In case it gets brought up again; I’m going to leave a link for the relevant ruling on Chaos Warriors weapons(which also apply to Marauders, Knights and Varanguard).
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/8f9bd00c.pdf
page 2
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Minimum unit of Splintered Fang for Cabalists sacrifice since they get a unit back every turn.
I’ll point out though, that in a ravagers list you probably shouldn’t rely on having your summons in range for a mark, and that Marauders are less effective at 10 units than at 20.
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16 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:It's 2-Drop and it includes the lane blocking endless spells like Palisade and Gravetide. However it's missing things like the Burning Head, Pendulum, Gnashing Jaws etc. Still think it'll do well (especially with the extra unit of pinks for another spell caster)Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
The Blue Scribes (140)
Gaunt Summoner on Disk (260)
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
Battalions
Changehost (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
New Darkfire Daemonrift instead of Purple sun imo.
EDIT: Did not realize you explicitly said no new endless spells.
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8 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
The default is the base faq already out and the war scroll as printed that follows that faq. With current rules you can indeed mix you weapons until an FAQ comes out.
Note there exist no where that blanket says "all unit default to an all or nothing state, unless stayed otherwise" what is stated is that if it reads as options you get options and Visa versa.
Personally I'm not touching the unit any time soon just Incase they change it, as they can change it at anytime. However, as a player we don't honestly have any ground to tell some one they can't mix with current rules.
Exactly; yes it’s wise to wait, but there is literally no reason to conclude that you can’t mix weapons.
If you need to build Warriors though, sets of 3 Double Hand weapons is a safe bet. You get 16 in a box anyway so you can build 6 of those and wait on the other 10.
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3 hours ago, Rizara said:
my bet is that the Chaos warriors are like they always have been, all using the same type of weapon. meaning you either go with sword and board, double swords, great weapons, or halberds. Mixxing them would be sweet but they have never been like that.
Someone already posted the FAQ on it. You get mutually exclusive weapon choices when the warscroll says “...the unit is armed with” and you get mixed weapons when it says “...models, each armed”. It’s a global rule on all units with that specific wording. Not just Warriors, not just Slaves, not just Chaos. ANY unit with that wording.
The Runeshield rules aren’t probably not Rules As Intended on the Warscroll, but how it’s worded right now; they only work when you have two or more shields in the unit.
Besides that’s a very specious argument. It’s in a new rulebook with tons of new rules. Are we going to ignore any other warscroll changes because that’s not how the old ones work? Clearly not.
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1 hour ago, Gibs said:
We all got the book only a few days ago and are in the same boat haha
If you accept the fact you can mix and match weapons the optimal setups probably won't be cracked for sometime yet.
Chaos Knights my gut feeling is lances because you should be able to land your charges and if you are not why take knights? Its also unlikely many players will be creating Deathstar units with them so prolonged combats are not the goal for these lads. The models should be big enough that you can magnetize weapons though, that way you don't have to make a guess?
Chaos Warriors on the other-hand all comes down to the optimal unit size. If you are running 10 or fewer models then a few with Shields and the rest with duel hand-weapons feels best. When you start getting to 15+ then mixing in Halberds become relevant as the 2" range means everyone is probably getting a swing in.
Most people haven't even played the army yet so take all advice including mine with a bucket of salt 😝
It depends on what else you’re putting in your army and what you’re doing with them.
10 Chaos Knights with lances and a Khorne General or Slaanesh leader should be able to delete Heroes and MSUs <20 wounds; but Ensorcled weapons will perform better against massive groups. Both are legitimate uses; I’d be inclined to use lances as well since I’m probably always going to be using Winds of Chaos or Mask of Darkness along with them.
Chaos Warriors dual wielding is better up until you start buffing Great Weapons to reroll all hits. An MSU of Warriors with hand weapons and shields is a decent option for battleline tax too; especially considering the points expense in this faction.
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36 minutes ago, Mcthew said:
As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules.
FAQ here we come!
(Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!)
I honestly don’t see any problem with it only working on units with 2 or more models with shields. That’s honestly a better rule than how Tzaangors work(where it’s just 1 model you need). The wording is compatible, it’s just a rule you aren’t comfortable with.
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5 hours ago, zedatkinszed said:
The chaos warrior warscroll is crystal clear:
In English this means all models in the unit are armed in the same way.
Compare with Tzaangors:
Same with Kairic Acolytes:
Comapre with Blood Warriors:
As you say GW is consistent regarding varied weapon usage within a unit. They say "Each unit fights with a variety of weapons". With Chaos Warriors they don't say this.
While the rule writting might be slightly different i.e it doesn't say "the unit is armed with" , the sentence as written (and as clearly intend, see box art etc), in English, means that each model in the unit is armed with the same one of the options. Any other construction on that sentence is not English grammar, and to be frank, is wishful thinking at best.
Unit is singular so “each” would only apply in a context where multiple units would be relevant. Since only one unit is relevant in this phrase and section; each can only refer to the part which refers to a plurality. The plurality in question is models.
There is in fact no part of this warscroll that refers to any plurality of units.
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Slaves to darkness what to buy next
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Sinfullyvannila
I would personally buy one of the older SC boxes. You’re probably going to at least be mixing in Banners and Musicians from the old kit anyway.
If you can get a hold of the Battleforce from last year I’d recommend that.