Sinfullyvannila
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Posts posted by Sinfullyvannila
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38 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
Well, @Sinfullyvannila Turned out I was right on the money about changes to the Tzaangors Eh? I wish I hadn't been, because they got nerfed pretty hard.
Yeah I know. It’s almost as if they were fine the way they were and that it was a terrible idea to change them in even the most marginal way.
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Kairos went up 20 points but gets an extra cast
Lords of Change can auto dispel. Both have changes to their brackets.
All Heralds went down and got warscroll changes.
Magister on foot is 100 points so he’s insanely good now.
Foot Summoner got the free summons like the disc one did, 5+ on his spell now.
Flamers get +1 to hit when within 12” of an exalted flamer and Capricious Warpflame changed to a bonus to hit horde units.
So Flamers are now pretty important to Horde clearing unless you take the Sorcerer on Manticore for S2D.
Tzaangors got their shield rule changed back to their original. So nerfed in a vacuum, but it’s really easy to get a hidden agenda to buff their attack.
Icon has some considerable downsides
Burning Heads are a never take because it’s too expensive IMO
Tome is good on Horrors because you can burn 2 1’s from your destiny dice to auto-succeed and just let split soak up the DD.
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1 hour ago, Carnelian said:
I'm afraid this is not how maths works. Hit is not a better stat because it affects more dice rolls (unless you're comparing abilities that trigger on a certain dice roll such as mortal wounds on a six). For a normal attack, hit, wound and save rolls are all equally vital in determining damage.
For example, the chances of damage going through when hitting on 4s (50%), then wounding on 3s (66.66%) followed by a 3+ save (33.33% for an unsuccessful save) is the same as the chance of damage going through when hitting on 5s (33.33%), then wounding on 4s (50%) and then saving on 5s (66.66% chance of unsuccessful save).
In both attacks, there is an 11% chance of the attack being successful - the order of operations does not matter.
Rend does not increase in value if damage goes up. Both rend and hit and wound all remain exactly the same in determining the chance/percentage of the attack going through, no matter what the damage that is being applied at the end is. In the above examples, there is an 11% chance of the attacks going through whether they are damage 1 or 2.
Whether it is better to be buffing hit or buffing rend is dependant upon all that stats involved, so we'd need to see the full hit, wound and save to know whether it was better to buff hit or rend.
For example, if you buff a hit stat from 4+ (50%) to 3 plus (66.66%), then you are increasing the chance of damage being successful by about one third (33%).
If however you were reducing a save from 2+ (16.66% of unsuccessful save) to 3+ (33.33% unsuccessful save) then you've increased the chance of damage going through by double (100%).
If you buff something by one point, you're always adding one point out of six, but always best to buff the worst characteristic. In general it is better to chose to buff a weaker stat rather than a 3+ result (especially given that a 1 is always a fail so no need to buff 2+ stats).
Of course the different factor with rend is that you don't know what save your opponent's army will be and sometimes rend will be useless (of the opponent has no save). However, that is balanced out by the fact that within the meta of the game you do need a way of dealing with high armour save units, particularly when they can reroll their saves and rend is v valuable in doing this.
Well, you’d better explain that to the people who write the dice calculators; because 10 attacks with the +1 to hit buff does 1.67 damage while the Rend buff does 1.39(both against 5+ saves).
I did mess around with the calculators after your post and you are right about Hit and Wound being interchangeable, but Rend does not return at the same rate. -1 Rend is worse on 4-6+ saves, marginally better on 3+ and like 25% better at 2+.
Thank you for correcting me on my erroneous claim, but despite that, the Rend is still a downgrade.
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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:
Looks like ill need more Spawns. All these spells/abilities that pump out Spawns will be fun. On top of the summoning of the new Horrors. Thats going to cost some $$$.
New thought...anyone have any ideas about how the Ogroids spell might be changed? It used to set up a unit of Brimstones but now...who knows...
I don’t see any reason for it to be changed.
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4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
I don’t count on magic. Without exaggerating: in the last 5 AoS games I did manage to only get 3 spells off total while having an average of ~1,5 Sorcerers per list. By Sigmar I just can‘t manage to roll higher than 5 concerning magic.... (my Warshrine sucks as well he managed to not bless anything for 4 turns in a row...)
I‘ll try the Khorne-DP however =}
@Sinfullyvannila on paper that might seem right. My experience showed however that it is already REALLY hard to get more than 3 knights into attacking range, their base is just too huge and they block one-another, or are blocked by terrain etc.
Lances have 2” range. You can position a front rank with their side facing the opponent and then point the ones in back facing forward.
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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:
I need some input, feel free to correct me if I get something wrong.
My Model range of S2T is currently rather limited and I usually play them as mono Slaanesh (10 Chaos Warriors, 5 Knights, 3 Varanguard, Chaso War Mammoth, Warshrine, Choas Lord on Kraka & on Foot, Chaos Mage, 6 Harpies, Iron Golems, Untamed Beasts, Daemon Prince)
My Arch-Frenemy is the Big Waagh! which is a hard nut to crack with S2D.
In terms of efficiency (esp. VS the Waagh but also in general) I am currenlty at a loss concerning how to use some units without relying on multiple buffs.
The mentioned units:
Chaos Warriors - They can tank damage IF you use 10+ of them which is just too expensive to be parked on an objective. They really need more damage somehow.
Chaos Knights - Lances are plainly rubbish, you lose out on too much compared to swords, swords are okayish but only a 4+ save for 180 pts? These need a 20 pts points drop, or more damage/tankiness.
Chaos Sorcerers - They're okay, though I couldn't find a way to make one cast twice or grant them a bonus to cast (while not being part of the Kabalist Subfaction)
Daemon Princes - Well...they're okay as a General in a Despoiler Subfaction but let's be real: 210 points? If they were Sorcerers as well that might be justified. More damage or a way to make one a sorcerer would be what's needed.
It feels to me like I am missing something important since most units just seem to be rather bad (compared to Orruks, I haven't had a lot of issues against any other faction really). It feels like no matter what I do the orrk player always has more bodies, more damage, more tankiness, better magic, more speed and I feel really handicapped when facing them (it's like playing against an enemy while fileding 500 points less in a 2000 point game).
Clear question: Do you have ideas and input on how to use the named units more effectively without having to invest a lot amount of Command Points and Auras to make them being worth their points?
I guess my advice to the very specific questions you are asking is to use more Sorcerer Lords and use the movement debuff spells(forgot what the lore one was but we also have the Rupture endless spell). I’d recommend looking into Gaunt Summoner since pinks should be able to split in Slaves once their new warscroll drops.
Since keeping the Slaanesh mark isn’t one of your conditions I’d say mark your DP as Khorne so you can use that command ability. Which will also seriously mess with their charges.
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50 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
Chaos Knights - Lances are plainly rubbish, you lose out on too much compared to swords, swords are okayish but only a 4+ save for 180 pts? These need a 20 pts points drop, or more damage/tankiness.
Lances are better than swords in Slaanesh if you buff them with the undivided buff or CSL buff(which I’m assuming you’re doing with your swords anyway), use them in units of 10 and stick to units you can delete or teleport them out with a spell.
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2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:
Can someone sell me on the spell Parchment Curse that is granted by Tome of Eyes? A Casting Value of 8 seems really high for what it does. And it's made much worse by having a 1 and 2 after that doing absolutely nothing AND you also don't want to end up with just a 1 on your third dice roll for damage. That seems pretty nuts.
Mathematically, rolling an 8 with reroll (thanks to Tome of Eyes) has a 58% chance, I think. Then needing a 3+ and wanting at least 2 damage means that even if we disregard denying, we're looking at a 26% chance to deal 2MWs and subtracting bravery by 2.
Not necessarily gonna sell it to you but I am going to point out that any time you can reroll casting rolls, you can use Destiny Dice on the reroll.
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1 hour ago, Dollface said:
Permanent and stackable with subsequent casts. Yikes.
Stackable with Mutaliths too.
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Well, I guess we can’t really judge the Sigil entirely yet since we don’t know the other results of it.
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4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
The spell buffs their rend. You are going from having no rend to the chance at having rend -1, while also generating fate points. That is ONLY a buff.
I also don't know what units you are talking about. I do know that both flavors of Evocator are wizards depending on unit size, and still get to choose and cast lore spells (though from a separate lesser lore).
The spell does not say "other" so they most certainly can buff themselves.
We have only seen 1 single subfaction rule from only 2 different subfactions. Given the track records of these, I can practically guarantee there will be at least one more rule in each of those, and at least 2 other subfactions with a mortal focus.I’m just talking about KA’s.
You’re overvaluing Rend compared to To Hit on a model with 1 damage.
Hit is a better stat the same modifier increment because it affects more dice rolls. Rend affects the least amount of dice rolls because your rolls already went through 2 steps of elimination.
Rend gains value when the damage for an attack is greater than 1 because each attack that gets eliminated from a successful save counts for at least twice as much as one eliminated from a failed hit or wound roll.
This is why I said they are worse in a vacuum, because that’s solely based on the unit’s warscroll.
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They look pretty nice except for the Simulacrum
EDIT: actually it works out to 3mws on average, so it depends on how much it costs.
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IMO, you’ll be waiting a long time for another new CW kit.
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14 minutes ago, Molath said:
Does putting The Blue Scribes on a Balewind Vortex increase the range of Boon of Tzeentch to 24”?
It should
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9 minutes ago, MitGas said:
I don't wanna complain but that faction focus made waiting like 5 times harder. Can't wait to see the new warscrolls and stuff....
We’ll probably get Man Reads Book on Saturday.
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11 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
Not sure how making them wizards makes them worse. And I was speaking about the subfaction that gives Horrors and Flamers rend. Summoning a ****** load of them will give a high volume of ranged rend in a army that had none.
The rule that makes them a wizard currently gives them a +1 to hit modifier. So unless the warscroll is further changed, you’re trading stronger offensive stat that is passive, for an opportunity to buff a weaker stat. I’m also operating under the assumption that, like other units that are wizards conditional to model number, they will only have access to their warscroll spell.
The subfaction is irrelevant to KA’s abilities. They can only buff other KAs and they don’t get the bonus to Rend for the subfaction; they’re attacks are Sorcerous Bolts, not any of the specific attacks listed.
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Why would you have to wait a turn for the pinks to cast?
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3 hours ago, Bloodmoon said:
What do you guys think of Archaon? Or more specifically, Archaon in Host of the Everchosen. People have told me he isnt competitive, but I think in a correctly built list his control over the turn order could completely break games in your favor. (along with making Marauders even better cause they dont take BS)
He should be fine if you run him as Nurgle and bring a Chaos Lord to let him attack twice.
Tip: Slayer of Kings works if your second 6 comes after his second attack.
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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:
The Horror spam is going to be nuts. People are freaking out of cheap LoC summoning but id rather pump out a free 50 wound unit. And if those Horrors are part of that flame subfaction they all get -1 rend to their ranged attacks making them even more valuable.
Im excited for Acolytes to become wizards too.
All this cool stuff will cost a lot of points im guessing
In a vacuum the changes to Acolytes makes them worse. Rend only maths favorably to Hit when the damage is greater than 1.
What they became useful towards is generating extra fate points.
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22 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
One thing I would like to see is for more "signature" style spells that we can cast more than once. Bolt of Tzeentch for example.
I also am hoping Kairos gets a major revamp on his scroll.
You can’t cast Bolt of Tzeentch twice per turn in matched play.
I’d actually run Kairos as-is in Guild of Summoners. What kind of revamp are you looking for?
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Oh man, I just realized that you’ll most likely be able to cast an endless spell with your pinks, run them over with it, then immediately get blue horrors which you can conga line forward.
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9 minutes ago, Grimrock said:
I don't think it'll solve the issues with horrors. Imo, their biggest problem has always been the 4+ to hit/4+ to wound statline.
Pinks do their damage through spells. The attacks are just a bonus.
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Disc Magister has the same spell as the one on foot, so it’s probably not a huge deal if you can’t get one from the battle box.
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Looks like Split is no longer tied to fate points, and Pinks are probably going to remain wizards, making them likely the best option for Gaunt Summoner.
If their new Locus of Change ability is tied to the Warscroll enemies will also be at a -1 to hit them if they stay near the Summoner.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Sinfullyvannila
???
Acolytes got a huge buff
Tzaangors (on foot) are almost as strong as they were when they were broken when you use the hidden agenda
Magisters are insanely good
Gaunt Summoner got a big buff
Thamaturge got a price drop
Its literally just the Disc guys that got nerfed.