Sinfullyvannila
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Posts posted by Sinfullyvannila
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I have not considered it as much as the Arcanites. But I think I’d do a Pyrocaster, a Screamer and then fill the rest out with Blue Horrors.
I don’t think I would ever consider running a list lacking a withdrawal denial ability if there is one available. It has proven to be critically important in every assasination or CtF objective.
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16 hours ago, Sacrednikki89 said:
Thanks for clearing that up, are the tzeentch endless spells worth buying?
The Sigil and the Tome are both good. The Simulacrum is a liability unless you are running a Lord of Change.
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3 hours ago, Sumanye said:
Note I also assumed that Enlightened do not try to trigger Guided by the Past, since I do not feel that is really optimal especially with a Fatemaster already giving rerolls and loss of fold reality.
If you stack 2 to-hit debuffs onto the threatening units it’s pretty safe to do Guided By the Past. Loss of Fold Reality is not nearly the deathblow people assume it to be.
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9 hours ago, Sedraxis said:
What!? One of our 4+ allegiance abilities doesn't give me insane points advantages anymore!? Inconceivable!
I think it's great they responded fast for once instead of forcing us to wait another 6 months, and this ruling certainly has my preference since it always feels kinda cheaty to do. Especially after killing your own models with endless spells 😁
Hopefully they will answer some more questions sooner rather then later.
Ummm people have been bowling over their pinks with endless spells and then bringing them back with 1’s on Destiny Dice since endless spells came out.
What’s baffling about this and the Master of Magic ruling is precisely that these things were common practice well before this book came out.
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1 hour ago, NJohansson said:
The actual relevant wording is:
So we have - slain - remover from play.
Regarding Battle chock:
Once again - remove from play - count as slain (same meaning, reversed words). Note that the unit does not flee - not any of their models, simply remove from play - slain. Regarding the spawning:
Spawning triggers on slain...
Are people really arguing the semantic between counts as slain and purely slain?
I do get that people feel the need for additional nerfs (I am probably in the same camp feeling Tzeentch is still on the higher end of the power curve) but this is getting ridiculous.
So you believe that when the Core Rules were written the intent was to create a situation to spawn more Pinks?
Because I’m speaking of the intent of the wording in the Core Book, that being to count Battleshock-removes models as slain for the purpose of counting them as kill points.
Frankly though, I’m just trying to go by intent in what is clearly an abysmally written book. The FAQ literally cast shade on Tzeentch players for playing Destiny Dice on Battleshock against intention when there was literally no reason to conclude that was against intent and every reason to assume it was the intent to play as written.
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11 hours ago, Kasper said:
The core rules for "slain models" and "battleshock" read significantly different. The text for "slain models" reads that the models are slain as in dead, then removed from the table. For battleshock the rules read that the models are removed from the table (not slain/dead), but following that they count as slain - For the purpose of kill points etc.
I’m inclined to agree with this. It’s clearly against intent to generate more models from Battleshock.
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2 hours ago, Qaz said:
??? Do explain.
Split and Split again (second paragraph): "Set up the additional models one at a time within 1"of the position that the slain model had occupied".Rare is the occasion where the blues fail to appear. I think you need 4 (32mm) models surrounding a pink for the second blue to failed to be placed.
They gain almost 50% of their footprint whenever they split. Don’t play with the assumption that the player put their splits within the range Locus of Change or Inspiring Presence. Make them check whenever a set of attacks resolve.
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1 hour ago, NJohansson said:
Once again - I don not think that the sky is falling, a lot of armies have counter play to Tzeentch. Saying that - if you kill even 30 (as in your example) the rest will not just disappear. Battle Shock will take another 20-30 models but you really need to take out much more to get rid of them. As to inspiring presence and -1 to hit the Tzeentch player can move a disk hero 16 inches forward (so should be in range) but then again killing the hero is always a possibility.
I think we’re just disagreeing in degrees. The point is, calling 20 pinks a hard 100 wound check isn’t conveying what they actually are, and it’s pretty easy to get them down below point efficiency if you don’t allow your opponent to place splits by intent. Which I’m pretty sure any other honest Tzeentch player would encourage someone playing against pinks to do.
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53 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:
Because the problem isn't in the DoT book wording... The problem is the core rules using the very specific word "modified" for battleshock and rend.
It's actually pretty easy for rules writers and play testers to overlook simple interactions like that when it's a basic rule you've known off by heart for years. You simply don't (and can't) re-read every single word of rules text to make sure your one new sentence doesn't break something.
Like if you're writing code, you can run the program and test every line and every interaction, and yet bugs still exist in software because of the huge number of potential interactions. You can't easily test every line of AoS rules every time there's a new line added.... at least not with limited GW and playtest man power.
What you can do is release it, and see if any of the 10,000+ users find a problem. Which we did. And fix it.I'm usually the first to attack sloppy rules writing. But in this case, it's pretty evident that it was an easy to miss interaction. Especially if you're play testing it as the writer, knowing full well what the intent was.
I'm actually surprised they put 2 special exceptions in the DD wording, instead of just updating the core rules to not count battleshock and rend as modifiers.
As for why, changehost was deemed ok with 2 free teleports initially... I dunno... that's the sloppy kind of writing or lazy play testing. It's likely they probably just don't do enough of it. There are after all 7 subfactions and like 10+ battalions on top of the 20+ units in just this one book.
That being said, it was pretty clear even on paper after a quick read through the book how strong that ability was. I don't have an answer for that.The reason I say it is because Tzeentch players have always used Destiny Dice to bypass Battleshock modifiers as their 2nd most common use(through Pinks Icon Bearers).
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8 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Gaunt summoner is the best faster or one of the best spells in the book. Arcane suggestion. It needs an 8 with a LoC around they can catch the +1 to cast buff. Guild of summoners would let the model pink up a second boost to casting. Making that spell realisticly castable.
-1 to hit and -1 to wound is really strong.
He’s always been a staple. It used to be for his warscroll spell, now it’s for his Diet Pink Horrors.
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4 hours ago, Sedraxis said:
Yes because every army can just dish out 100+ wounds in 1 turn, especially after being shot at by 60+ 3+ 4+ -1 1 shots and however many flamers you want to get in range. At -1 to hit of course, good thing you also have free reign on objectives too.
Have you never played another tome to notice the difference in power here?
Destiny Dice is one hell of a drug.
Yeah, Stormcast, Ogors and Slaves.
You don’t need to do 100 damage. You need to do 20. You just need to get rid of the icon bearers. Unlike other units, Horrors get harder to keep in Inspiring Presence Range as their effective wounds go down. If you can get them past their icon bearers you won’t be able to bring them back, since they’d need 9 other Pinks to add or return an Icon Bearer. Then they can’t Icon Shenanigan and they’ll be very hard pressed to inspiring presence unless they put their General in an extremely vulnerable situation.
You also don’t have the -1 to hit if a hero isn’t in range. And since you only have 1 TP per turn, you can’t teleport a hero within range of them, so Locus is extremely likely to drop at some point in the round.
Also, you have to choose between Flamers having Rend and not being able to retreat from Pinks.
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6 hours ago, Dolomyte said:
If you think the problem with changehost was two teleports and not the fact that’s it’s a one drop battalion with every unit you want to take an option Then sure it was a nerf. I’m still gonna have 20 pinks charging my whole army and locking it up top of 1 every single game
I agree that there are more problems with Changehost, but this play is now a terrible waste of 400 points for the Tzeentch player.
These pinks should crumple on the first turn now. They won’t be benefiting from Locus of Change the whole round and will probably be forced out of Inspiring Presence range.
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I’m still utterly baffled how the battleshock modifier got past playtesting and editing.
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1 hour ago, Neffelo said:
Yeah, I need to convert one up. If you are running a big block of enlightened you want one for sure.
Yeah I ordered some 40k Exalted Sorcerer bits and got some Slaves to Darkness Knight and Warrior bits, an Acolyte Shield and either greenstuff the flames on the Glaive or try some Burning Chariot or Pink Horror Icon bits.
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16 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:
Enlightened on discs can be used in this manner while also threatening objectives like screamers.
This is super important too. If you’re using arcanites you’re stuck with their 6” since you can’t run and shoot. You absolutely need something to threaten backfield objectives in the Witchfyre Coven.
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13 hours ago, NJohansson said:
You usually get more out of them taking 9 than taking a shaman. So if you take the shaman for the sole reason to get something out of the enlightened you probably should just take 3 more (unless you take the fatemaster instead).
The Shaman gives you a possible Arcane Suggestion and Doomblast Dirgehorn.
You’re going to want an Arcane Suggestion caster regardless of how you’re using your enlightened. So it’s like, a +50 point cost over minimum(Magister), +100 if you take the horn.
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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:
I treat Enlightened as a tax as far as Witchfyre goes. They cost too much for what they bring to the battalion. 3 is next to useless so naturally you want to bump it up to 6 to get some use. Now you need a Shaman to make them better. All that is taking away points from the focus of the Pyrofane + Witchfyre list which is heavy shooting via Acolytes and magic.
They should outdamage 30 Acolytes even without the Shaman, IIRC just on the Spears.
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3 hours ago, Sttufe said:
Hey uh, quick question, I am getting an Aether War box set and my friend and i are gonna split it. what is about the effectiveness competitively of the Tzeentch side of the set, especially the custom hero unit, as he is more a player where as I am a collector? This is in comparison to the effectiveness of the faction as a whole of course.
Too many other good leaders for the new magister to shine since you can only ever bring 6.
If you can debuff the enemy’s to-hit enough so that you can safely use Visions of the Past and use Reckless Abandon, Enlightened hit like a Hammer of God. That being said, you probably don’t need them since Flamers hit so hard at range and their synergies can’t fail. They might see competitive play if the Changehost gets nerfed enough since they are a tax in the Witchfyre Coven.
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13 hours ago, Malakithe said:
Gloomspite have been doing this for a while with their spider pot endless spell.
It definitely wasnt an oversight. The old book and DD worked the same way. The old system and this new one are the same except for the new unmodified part. And the old one was changed cuz it used to allow you to change the result of the damage of the spells themselves.
They also changed how you could use them in 2d6 rolls.
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13 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:
Another slight advantage of the tome of eyes is that it's on a 40mm (approx. 1.5") base and can be set up within 1". Caster and Tome are considered 1 model, so things like spell range and endless spell setup range can be measured from the Tome, giving you another 2.5". So altogether the Spell gives you an extra spell to cast (great for changeling, situational for all others), re-roll spellcasts and 2.5" extra range on spells. I actually rate the Tome pretty high, I'm definitely going to have one in my list.
Wow I never even thought of that.
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5 hours ago, Daramiz said:
Changing DD seems like the thing to hit right now. It doesn't feel right, even for units that aren't out of control like Tzangors or Acolytes.
If horrors are still a problem in the competitive scene after that, I would guess GW will go to changing points.
I don’t care if it feels right. It should be obvious that nerfing the entire army when there are problems with a combination of specific Subfactions and Warscrolls is the definition of an overcorrection.
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1 hour ago, NJohansson said:
DD takes away any real resource management - what is otherwise a tough choice becomes a non issue.
Laughs in Bonereapers and Slaves to Darkness
And that’s probably exactly why they changed 2d6 rolls to needing 2 dice.
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5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
Nagash is a few thousand years older than Archaon btw.
Katakros would win since Archaon is nothing but a self-pitying former Priest of Sigmar that has been twisted by Be‘lakor. Without his artefacts Archaon is rather useless.
Katakros is THE tactical genius which leads unwavering super-Elite unseals to battle that can be resurrected.
If Katakros is such hot stuff he’d be the Everchosen.
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59 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
My point is that they don't have to use that CP for the +1 to cast. It's obviously beneficial, but if I can see my Horrors are about to get smacked with 20-30 damage you better believe I'll reserve a CP to spend it later and make sure they don't run if I need to hold the objective they're occupying for another turn. You preventing them from capping it is literally a make or break moment in a lot of games. The winning Cancon game wasn't anything over the top, it was actually quite close all things considered.
Then Horrors become an overpriced liability that are a list trap with exception of the ones you can bring in with the Gaunt Summoner.
Your Favorite Mercenary.
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I have a hard time justifying anything except Blood Priest or Great Bray-Shaman in anything except Untamed Beasts because that pull is just so good.