Ser_namron

Are you asking if the collector trait allows you to take 2 artifacts on one hero? If so A: No. If an ability modifies a rule, any restrictions that apply to the rule still apply unless specifically noted otherwise

Does anyone use old metal witch aelves instead of the new sculpts? I have a ton of OOP witches from like 92-2002 i bought when i started the army, and i was looking for some inspiration for painting them, but theirs not a ton out there. I was going to convert some with whips and shields....but thats alotta work lol.

I take skyport first and build from there, so i had assumed you had one in mind! Now im curious what you're thinking of putting them in. Maybe find room for the sky command battalion so you can pop Arkco out turn 1 to screen? Otherwise you're gonna be leaving yourself exposed if you get fully within range for damage. You kitting riggers with special weapons? Ive been digging 4 saws/rivet guns and 2 drills. Still some combat bite, and some hero sniping potential. Plus 12" rivet guns are solid. Wildcard lol, love it.

Lo fair enough, it is definitely a spectrum. I got ALOT of what i wanted with this new tome, the army is actually playable and sky ships arent just ok, they have unique uses and some serious firepower. But i also know whats out there currently, and whats been released in the past year, or even the same week ( DoT have our mobility and better fire power with a unit of flamers and a battalion). And after suffering for the last 1-2 years with an army i bought into based on looks and lore that legit couldn't hold a candle to most armies without spamming the most boring unit of the tome i was really hoping to have the same level of power. And i think alot of people hoped the same. New tome is solid, and would be GREAT if it existed in a game that had balanced armies, but it doesnt. KO might be one of the most balanced tomes in the game, and if GW pushed to make that the norm, i'd have no complaints. But you cant release DoT and KO at the same time and say " we're aiming for balance". So ya, i feel ours comes up short. not because of whats really in there ( some more restrictions than id like) but because of whats OUTSIDE of our army. Still having a blast playing and painting them, but i mean...ya i wanna win tournaments too. Its a harsh restriction for no real reason. Their are no busted combos from having a hero in a ship with a unit. even if it was 11.

whats the plan of attack?

I meant the double shooting phase as more of a joke, thatd be bonkers broken lol. But as bonkers broken as that would be, it describes current combat against a good chunk of armies, where you have these insane mechanics. to shoot all your guns where you want is great, but the range on a large chunk of KO weapons mean your either getting 12" away to truly get all your shooting, setting yourself up to get charged. Or you stay back, outside of threat range and fire a small chunk of your weapons. Thunderers with rifles are 18" away, i could name more armies that could easily make that distance than i could armies that couldnt. Special weapons range from 9-24" but the 24" shots are 1 or 2 shots leaving the rest of the units profile still out of range. Can we drop somewhere and fire everything into a front unit? Sure. But if someone screens even a little bit, your losing a ton of attacks, or your throwing them all into a screen, setting yourself up to get charged. tactics are for suuuuure a big part of this army, but making mistakes is going to lose you alot of ground QUICK with them as well. And like anything its a spectrum, some battle plans are going to be better for us, or some matchups might be great for us, i havent played enough to say as much. But i can speak to the problems that keep popping up in my experience with the army so far, and putting it against the experience of fighting other armies. I think this is a really good summary of the army. Id prefer a bit more, im a greedy ******, but i see the merit of the army. And it is sooooooo much better than the last book. Idk about the no retaliation part, there are some fast flipping armies out there that can do insane damage lol. And "there are many ways to give the enemy –1 and everything inside a boat is at least 3+ Save while our boats being 3+/4+ too. And potential rerolls! " -1 to models within 3". So pretty hard to get more than a couple models unless your stacking multiples in a unit, gimping your ranged dmg. And if your in a ship your not winning points, which is honestly a problem with how few models we have on the ground. I think its solid, but its not overly impressive. I think you have some good points, and i think you look through a more positive lens than i do lol. And while i think it has some serious issues and isnt as powerful as we'd all like to hope, Its a good, fun army. And hopefully we can agree on that. You had me at Dwarves ❤️

Kinda disappointing theirs no errata. Though it was expected. I've been enjoying the new tome, and ive squeaked out a few wins, but i dont think we have enough threat outside of hero sniping to really compete with the top tier armies. Our combat is straight up garbage. Saws are great, but they will last you 1 round before your scooping baloons. Our magic.......well, i've made my feelings clear with how GW keeps handling Duardin with no magic, point is, it gimps the ever loving ****** out of the army. And our ranged is good, not great, good. It only functions as well as it does because of our mobility, which is unrivaled. If we couldnt drop down 9" out of enemies we would be well and truly boned. And even dropping that close means your likely getting charged if you dont get a double turn. And once you get charged, your options are A) Hope to have taken few enough wounds to fly high. or B) see if you can squeak a few wounds in before your ships turned to scrap metal. I think we need PT reductions almost across the board just to open up more options for how we play, or what we can run. Baloons and ArkCo are probably the only 2 units worth their cost. All the ships could be reduced a bit IMO, it wont open up enough room to spam more, just enough to add another ground unit or hero. The capacity limit on ships excluding Heroes is also just......terrible. There are no interactions in the book that would make this some busted combo. It was unnecessary. Khemist buff not hitting a garrisoned unit is also pretty trash. RR1 to wound is so minor, and thats like the best buff in our book..... The KO play experience has been very fun for me so far, but i think ive put them on the table enough at this point to see the flaws and i just dont see how we compete with the top tier armies on the table. I have FS/DoK/Skaven so i have tasted TRUE POWAH, and this army, while amazingly fun, beautifully scultped, and full of Duardin, it does not have the power those other armies have. We need a 2x shooting phase buff to compete with the nonsense that is combat with activation wars nowadays lol.

Ya buddy, we have been singing their praises in the last week or so. Amazing horde clearing potential, VERY cheap. even just taking 1 is amazing because of how many builds leave us with 70-80 points which cant really buy a whole lot. Their fast enough to keep up with fly high, and cheap enough to be used as a nice screen. Gyrocopters and Gunhaulers are killing it for me with this new tome.

just an FYI skywardens dont have to be taken in escort wing because its 0-3 units.

Drills seem more reliable to me, at least for hero/monster sniping whcih i think is all they really should be going for. That auto 3 MWs on a 5+ is amazing when things have LOS and -hit artifacts/traits. And 36" range is big sexy. plus -3 rend is getting through most stuff. Also i only roll 1-2 on my shrapnel shots lol.

I havent tried bombers out yet! I like the d3 mortals, and i didnt realize you can do it with a run or retreat, thats pretty great. Im using them mainly as horde killers, so im not sure if 3d3 is as good as being able to shoot around 17 shots average ( just in my experience shooting into stabbaz alot recently) with one copter. If i have 3 i could be rolling somewhere around 35+ dice on a horde unit. But against armies without wimpy hordes i could see the gyrobombers finding way more usefulness.

Ive said it before in this thread, but the Gyrocopter is amazing for our army. Ive had so many lists with 70-80 points left over and the options are limited. The copter gives us a MUCH needed horde killer with the steam gun ( models within 8" 3/4-1/1 ). Also has 16" move so it can actually keep up with our army. Makes a great cheap screen unit. Plus, its a flippin' ship boyz, thats flavor town. Ive been thinking about a unit of 3 to just melt screens turn 1 while i play defensively with the rest of the army using them as a charge screen for my main ships and shooting that are behind them at 12" range for the weapons.

Nick nailed it, their just amazing at priority targets. If you have 2 and get lucky with some 5+ to hit, you can pretty much one shot half the leaders in this game, and if you dont get the 5+ you still have a -3/D3 shot coming in. Great for bracketing monsters, and a flipping 36" range on it where you can drop them anywhere on the board. Most the time you're gonna be able to pick your target no matter where they are. Ive run 2-3 in every list ive made so far, usually bring the riggers with saws/rivets drop down 12" out ( if i can get a double turn, otherwise i try to play more conservative) and just focus a target within 12" with all the riggers and the carbines, and shoot the drill at a hero or monster. Ive been using the collapsible compartment to bring 5 thunderes with special weapons for additional focus fire on the 12" target, or to drop off on an objective. I was running special weapons pretty heavy in the rigger blocks, but dropping 12" away means a high chance of getting into combat if you dont win the first turn, and i feel liek you NEED the saws to threaten their charge/ make up some of their points because they arent all that tanky and their 2nd shooting phase is gonna be mediocre if they lost half the unit. But the gunhaulers what enables all of that at a low cost. .

Oh man i am the exact opposite lol. Gunhaulers seem like the best points we can spend. looking forward to the post, i've also been feeling the need for bodies after a few games . Been messing with barak Thyrng for some nekkid lava dorfs to fill the ranks.

meant to quote you on the post above ~

I like it, but it hurts seeing the ironclad with the breath and meanwhile you have a battalion but not a 2nd ship to put a E-work on. I would def try to squeeze a gunhauler in there and take breaths on it, and give the ironclad something better as well as a 6+ shrug ( by hauler being near it). Gunhauler will count as BL, and not that it matters cause you have the BL requirements, but the endrinmaster on foot doesnt unlock baloons as BL if im not mistaken, only the dirigible suit does. That being said i think you've got your plan in mind and it sounds solid, so that might be unnecessary.

I like them as a unit, i think they have some real variety in how you wanna play them which is cool and valuable. Im not sure if i'd call them the best unit in our book though. I like your idea of running a 12 blob with an aethergold for hero sniping, 4 shots of deadly profiles could certainly do that. But with look out sir and other -1 hit debuffs thats gonna be real risky. I have been using drill cannons on gunhaulers for hero sniping to great effect, but im gonna give a 12 blob a try and see how i like it. I think their just a bit too squishy for me to want to invest in a max unit that cant fly away. I think the utility of hitching is the best use for them to quick grab objectives or flank an army.

I think 12 is the sweet spot for list building. 2 units of 6 to hitch around. Anything more than that seems like a novelty list with a specific purpose in mind ( not that that cant be viable )

Its pretty easy to wrap the runesmiter in the HGB so shooting is the only real threat there. Im also kinda hoping playing aggresive with the rest of the army makes them focus other things. But valid point for sure. Also, vulkites have no real punch, i was looking for a survivable unit in combat, but i also wanted a killy one, and i think HGB fit that role better. frigate was originally in the list but it didnt really do much for me and was a huge chunk of points. I traded it out for 2 more arkco of 10 and a gyrocopter. The lack of bodies has been the biggest problem in my games. I think its worth losing the ability to grab an objective turn 1 to be able to grab 2-3 objectives by turn 2. The plan is to hopefully force them to deal with the frontlines dropping in keeping them in their own territory so my Arkco can push up and stay on objectives.

I agree, i think taking the special weapons if your actively trying to get them into combat is a mistake, except 1 skyhook for the +1 charge. gunbutts are straight up useless, so when the special weapons unit gets in combat, you have 2 saws in the mix, and thats pretty much your combat potential. Plus the rivet guns are a solid ranged weapon for shooting the unit your about to charge or be charged by.

i think ironclads got better endrinworks for sure too. And their the only boat that can actually fit heroes and units. But , ya that covers most points id say.

Barak Thyrng list 2- Duardin boogaloo Baloondrinmaster- 220pts Trait-Supremely stubborn Artifact- Grudgehammer Aetheric navigator- 100 pts Runesmiter -120pts battleline- Arknaught company (10) x 3- skyhook/volleygun/drill on each unit of 10 - 270 pts Endrinriggers (6) x2 - Full saws/rivet guns besides 1 skyhook each -400 pts Other- 20 HGB- Poleaxes- Karl- 400 pts Gunhauler- 150 pts Drill cannon Collapsible compartment Gunhauler- 150 pts Drill cannon Gyrocopter- 70 pts Steam gun Thunderers (5) - 120 pts 1 Sarge/fumigator/mortar/volleygun/drill 2000/2000 General is a wanna be prime, dropping in with a gunhauler 9" away from enemies. On a grudged unit he will have 3 atks 2rr1/2/-2/d3 with an additional D3 on 6s to a grudged target, and if you reallllly wanna go all in, the once per battle 6s = 2 hits. Also has a full attacks on a 2+ when slain. Super swingy, definitely a bad idea, but hot damn kamikaze baloons never looked so good lol. Sure you gotta roll a 9 to charge....but thats ok i guess lol. Riggers also ready for the charge, +1 from skyhook - Oh ya, we gonna die today boyz, but on a 4+ we get to fight /flex leave the companies to advance onto objectives,, or even better, get behind our HGB for some ranged goodness. HGB and runesmiter can drop 9" away from the frontline or if you can sneak em into the back even better. Just a good ol fashioned tar pit with a 5+/4+ RR wounds thanks to runesmiter. 3 enemy units get grudged so we'll have rr1s to hit on the real trouble units, or maybe the front chaff so we can blow right through it. very high drop army kinda goes against t he whole alpha strike feel of it, but besides the ArkCo you can leave everything in the backline / tunnels and pop up anywhere outside of 9" .

So ive played about 6 games with KO and ive been putting 10 in a frigate with 2 fumigators and 8 rifles usually. I like having the -1 to hit because i feel like they NEED to be on the ground with our lack of bodies for objectives. But ya i havent gotten to the thunderers yet for magnetzing, so that does sound painful. Maybe ill just build 10 rifles, 2 fumigators, and 1 of each type beside the mortar. because the mortar seems doodii outside the +1 to hit build lol.

Deleted because i got the rules wrong on what i typed lol.

Im magnetizing the whole army because i cant figure out which options i wanna go with on riggers and thunderers >.<