TALegion
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Posts posted by TALegion
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It's great to hear that Ironfist and (supposedly) Brutish Cunning work in Big Waaagh lists. Two MDs per turn is probably about as much as you'd normally use in a turn anyway. It makes the argument for Big Waaagh lists much better, imo.
1 minute ago, Malakree said:Looks like it's something you'll need to msg to's before taking a bloodtoofs list.
Some will probably house rule it.
Is it normal for tournaments to houserule things like this? I don't play competitively enough to know if that's a normal thing to ask for. It'd certainly make it easier to just make the ability a universal +2 to Waaagh, and bloodtoofs could certainly use it. Without the ability, they're almost certainly the weakest clan.
Would it be reasonable to bring your own realmgate and just ask if you're allowed to switch a terrain piece out for it in your games (seeing as you'd have been able to do that, had you set up the terrain yourself)?
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37 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:
Quick question about warbeats. It say ''at the start of the combat phase''.
Does that mean that in a single turn, I can cast it at the combat phase of my opponent AND at my combat phase?
At times where an ability gives a non-specific "the combat phase" or "the hero phase" (as opposed to "your hero phase"), you can use it in the opponent's phase as well as your own.
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Thoughts on using Da Choppaz without a weirdnob general? All of the benefits are pretty versatile, so it seems like a possible default-option.
(Note, this list is exactly 2000pts - warscroll builder incorrectly lists six GGs as 280pts)Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 2x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Ironfist (160)
Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143The idea is to alpha-strike with GGs and the MBMK turn 1, buffing the GGs with a WC and giving the MBMK Mystic Shield. The boss is super tanky and can probably live a round of combat, and the GGs will do huge damage on the charge. The opponent can either retreat (giving me the ability to move and charge again), continue to fight (letting me using 2 Might Destroyers at the start of my next turn), or wipe me out (which I think will be hard for many armies).
The rest of the units move up the other side of the board, putting themselves in position for a turn-2 charge with most of them being buffed by a WC. The 5-man squad of ardboyz exists to capture back-line objectives.
I made the MBMK the general because I think he'll be able to move around to where the 18" +2 bravery will be most useful. If that doesn't work out, the alternative idea is to make one of the WCs the general so that the buff is always in range of the Ardboyz+Brutes.
3 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Bursting with Power
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Mighty 'Eadbutt
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)Unfortunately, without a megaboss, you don't have access to Waaagh. That's not a complete deal-breaker, but I imagine that it'd be useful with so many ardboyz. If you wanted to squeeze in a footboss, you could drop the Mighty 'Eadbutt weirdnob and the balewind vortex. You could either give him the Ironsunz artefact or give one of your WCs a realm artefact
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19 minutes ago, broche said:
One of the list I would like to test, using a gore first in da Choppa:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: Destroyer
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Gorefist (130)
Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
List come at 8 drop, wich is quite high but should let you go first againts some shooting list (skaven and now cities). The goal is to hit with the 3 x 3 pig in T1 to clean as much model as possible, and ideally pile in onto shooting units. Burn the 2 CP for waaagh and gordrak buff, the pigs will hit 100 damages before save.
Da choppa here save 2 purpose: Early game you get reroll charge for your mini-alpha strike. And mid game you can buff up to 4 units with only 2 warchanter. That mean your ardboys, brutes and megaboss/gordrak would all get +1 damage making all of them a huge threat. the +2 bravery is a nice add on so your brutes pig will never flee.
Going second against army likely to hit you first, I will likely do a screen with the ardboys, spread the pigs and put units behind in counter attack. You could also downgrade Gordrack for regular mawkrusha to increase to 15 ardboys.
Any reason to go for the gorefist over the ironfist? Da Choppa's command ability can't target GGs, so you can't buff all three for the turn-1 gorefist charge. I figure that it'd be easier to use a 6-man unit (or 9, if you wanted to go all-in) and make them the ironfist boss. It'd also let you lessen your drops significantly.
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Just a heads up: the Warscroll Builder and Azyr both have points wrong for some units. Warscroll currently lists GGs as 140 for three and Azyr is saying Weirdnobs are 120. According to the book, those two are 160 and 110, respectively.
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Hi. For context:
- The Ironfist battalion lets one of your units use the Mighty Destroyers command ability as though it were a megaboss
- Might Destroyers is an Ironjawz allegiance ability
- Big Waaagh! armies can use the Ironfist battalion, but are not an Ironjawz army (Big Waaagh is its own allegiance, but it uses all Orruk units)If I bring an Ironfist battalion in a Big Waaagh! army, can the unit use Might Destroyers, despite the command ability belonging to a separate allegiance?
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If Azyr is known to be incorrect, then that's good. RaW still says that you can avoid the traits and artefacts by choosing the right general and artefact holders.
3 minutes ago, broche said:Could a rule guru confirm me that cover bonus is still Wholly within? a friend is arguing that is now just within cause it say Wholly on or within. In my interpretation this mean wholly within, if not i had totally miss that ( and nobody never pointed that to me)
I can tell you that the book says "wholly on or within a terrain feature." I've interpreted that to mean that "wholly" is applied to both "on" and "within."
38 minutes ago, broche said:@TALegion I agree with you, big waaagh seem more appealing to me. The only drawback is loosing smash and bash and mighty destroyer. So if you can get back mighty destroyer from ironfist, that is nuts
My thoughts exactly. You lose S+B, access to the clans, and the IJ Waaagh (though you get the Big Waaagh's version). I haven't played with the clans yet, so I'm not sure how they match up to the Waaagh points table, but the table is very, very useful.
I'm going to test Ironsunz and Da Choppaz when I get a chance. I'm getting the feeling that Sunz are better with Mawkrushas and Choppaz are preferable if you bring no Mawkrushas.
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One thing I just noticed when it comes to clans: the Azyr app is saying that the Clan armies must use the command trait and artefact from their clan. The wording in the book (e.g. "An Ironsunz Megaboss general must have..." and "The first Ironsunz Megaboss to receive an artefact...") implied to me that you could avoid taking them if you used a different general type (i.e. Taking a Weirdnob general in an ironsunz list, thus avoiding the "Megaboss" part), but the app is saying that you need to take the trait/artefact in all cases.
18 minutes ago, broche said:And another tricky question: Can you use Mighty destroyer from ironfist when playing big waaaagh? (If it's the case it's realllllyyy gooooddd)
I need to know this, too. I tried some lists yesterday and I had the most success with the Big Waaagh. If ironfist works in a Big Waaagh, it's going to be even better.
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7 hours ago, Malakree said:
The following bonuses as things you can Don't get if you take this allegiance and not the Ironjawz, no matter how many points you build up.
- Smashing and Bashing
- Mighty Destroyers.
That said there is a niche case where if you take an Ironfist technically you get a single use of Mighty Destroyers each turn from the Ironfist Boss.
Is it confirmed that you can use the Ironfist's Mighty Destroyers in a Big Waaagh army? I was looking for a ruling on this and couldn't find anything analogous .
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28 minutes ago, broche said:
Someone have the book and could confirm that weirdfist is only Ardboys and Brutes?
That's correct - only Brutes and Ardboyz.
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28 minutes ago, Caffran101 said:
Can someone who is better at maths theorise whether its best to use the Big WAAAGH +1 attack ability whenever you can?
Or is +1 to hit and wound rolls better (5/6 chance of losing this buff when you Big Waaaaagh).
Da Big Waaagh doesn't make you lose your Waaagh points until the end of the combat phase. For the whole phase, you will have all three: +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1 attacks.
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40 minutes ago, Kizkull said:
Hi guys! First of all, thank you for your brainstorming... that helps me to improve my knowledge and my play style!
My question is that I don't know if is worth to chose one ironjawz clan (ironfist, bloodtoof or choppa) because i think that the general artefacts and traits are really good too... and then is when I think... maybe I should chose the Big Waaagh... I can't sleep good...
PD: Sorry for my bad english
I think you can do whatever you want. The clans all have their uses and are roughly equal in strength, and the book's command traits are also strong. I'm going to try our the Brutal Cunning trait (which gives you a free use of Might Destroyers) before I try any of the clans - it just sounds more fun to me. At some point, I'm also going to trying Ironclad + Weird 'Un (4+ to ignore spells) to make an unkillable boss
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According to the videos, it's end of the phase. You can see it here, though it's a little blurry. It's definitely "end." So, it's not 100% OP - it's just a reactionary tool.
I'd still put Ironsunz above Da Choppas if you're bringing a mawkrusha, for what it's worth. -
18 minutes ago, broche said:
that will need confirmation, so far info we have is start of charge phase. However end of the charge would be even better as it would allow you to counter charge with unengaged units
According to the videos, it's end of the phase. You can see it here, though it's a little blurry.
Still useful, but it's not able to interrupt or disrupt charges, afaik. You'll only be able to charge after they've already declared and completed all of their charges.
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The Ironsunz CA is "at the end of the enemy charge phase," which means after all of their units have already charged, correct? It can't interrupt charges as much as respond to them, I think.
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6 minutes ago, Wazzuli said:
I wanna make sure I'm picking up on the puke-port! Is this with one or 2 Weirdnobs? Or taking the trait or relic (forgot which it is) to cast 2 spells??
Weirdnobs get a free use of green puke, in addition to their other spell, if they're within 18" of a unit with 10 or more models, so you only need 1 to do a puke-port. It's still a 7 to cast and can be unbound, though, so it may be worth taking a +1 cast artefact if you want to make it more reliable.
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53 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:
So I was checking out the clans again for the Ironjawz and I am wondering why there isn't more hype around Da Choppas?
I think the idea and versatility of this clan is really, really cool. You basically take a Weirdnob shaman as your general, he acts as a megaboss so he can call a Waagh, you get his spells, the warchanters prayers are now 3per cast, you get tons of brutes and ardboys as ground forces, you get +2 Bravery (so +4 for ardboys with banners and it's a nice bonus for brutes too).
What am I missing here? It seems really good.
I think Da Choppas are looking for army lists that are slightly different than traditional IJ ones. I think, since you want to lean into infantry-heavy lists, you probably are discouraged from bringing a Mawcrusha, as well. Also, the command ability doesn't affect gore-gruntas, which is unfortunate. And, from a competitive standpoint, Da Choppas have to contend with Ironsunz, who might just outclass them.
Don't get me wrong - I fully intend on trying some Da Choppas lists. It seems like the best way to make an Ardboyz-spam army, which could be super entertaining. It might be the most consistent clan, too, since the army trait basically says "reroll all charges" in most battleplans, which is always going to be useful. This is especially true with a Weirdnob using Hand of Gork and giving the unit +d6 movement with green puke. That's a nearly-guaranteed charge out of deepstrike.
Edit: Tbh, I think the summary is: If you bring a mawkrusha, Ironsunz is probably better. If you choose not to bring a mawkrusha and instead invest those 460 points into infantry, I think there's a legitimate argument for Da Choppas.
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Shamelessly stealing 90% of this list from something @Malakree posted in the IJ thread:
Total: 1940
Gordrakk - 540
WC - 110
Ardfist - 680
- 5x5 Ardboyz
- WCGorefist - 610
- 3x3 GG
This is 4 drops and gives you 4 CP on turn 1. It guarantees 12 Waaagh Points on turn 1 (factoring in 'Ere we Go) and 20 on turn 2 with a good chance of hitting 24 on turn 2.
The 5x5 Ardboyz give you a ton of map coverage and the opportunity to bring back a 10-man unit with the Ardfist. The Gorefist lets you own the map on turn 1, either setting you up for a turn 1 charge, threatening a charge, or grabbing objectives.
Thoughts?-
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8 hours ago, Kasper said:
Apparently the "Mad as Hell" rule specifices that the movement you get is at the end of the phase. So you could stand in a far corner with your Weirdnob and a unit, puke on your unit, teleport it with Green Hand (it only says you cant move in the following movement phase) 9" away from the enemy and then at the end of the hero phase move D6 towards the enemy.
Wow, good call. That's a hilarious combo. The difference between an 8 inch charge (factoring in +1 charge) and 8 minus d6 is huge. Just the threat of having a near-guaranteed charge after deepstrike could be powerful - your opponents could never leave a valuable or weak unit vulnerable.
3 hours ago, Malakree said:Cabbage (460)
Ardfist: 1 Warchanter 5x5Ardboys (680)
Gorefist: 3x3Goregruntas (610)
250 points and 1 artefact spare.
Options: Brutes+110 hero. Fungoid/ardboys (90) + Footboss 150) or wurrgog (160) or ggs (160)
Or a footboss + 80 points to upgrade to Big G!
That sounds like a really tempting 1750 list - I definitely want to try it.
I think the 2000pt version with Gordrakk and the Boss (or a warchanter, which also gives you 60 pts for 1 CP) could be very usable in a Big Waaagh, too. If you take the WC, it's nearly guaranteed that you get 12 Waaagh pts for the 6+ fnp. Next turn, it's a guaranteed +1 hit, +1 wound, and +1 attack with Waaagh. All of this is at 4 drops, too.
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What are people's thoughts on a Foot of Gork-spamming Wurrgog Prophet general in a Big Waaagh list? Taking the right command ability and artefact, you get +2 to cast (+3 if there's an enemy monster with 24") and +1 to unbind, both of which can be buffed by +2 for d6 Waaagh points. If you do that, it's a 6+ (5+ with a monster) for the big Foot of Gork with a low chance to get unbound.
I think that's a hilarious amount of damage, period. Plus, you get the added versatility of having really powerful unbinding rolls (+3 for d6 Waagh points) for yourself, if needed. Is this a real option?
19 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:Yes this is my thoughts as well. I will agree that a single Hero doing all that warchanters is doing right now IS overpowered in a vacuum, but the army itself is so lacking, this single character is the batman of the justice league.
This army will stomp on a lot of armies by brute force, by just throwing damage and dice at them, for example Beastclaw raiders, beasts of chaos, std or even a melee focued stormcast army, will just get squished in most cases. It will not be fun for anyone involved. At least a book like DoK who can handily beat the same armies with no effort, has some width in the book to not take Hag nar, to maybe run with warlocks and snakes.
Is Orruks better to play than before? probably, but that is not saying much, the problems have just been moved from Whaagh CP bombing to Warchanters and some will hate your army for just being a beatstick, while the same other group of players will stomp you still. I know that sounds like doom and gloom and it probably exaggerated somewhat, but unfortunately few Ironjawz games have been fun for me or my opponent and I simply hoped the new book would help with that some more.
Does anyone have any predictions for what armies will be able to beat IJ consistently? I'm very unfamiliar with what high-level, competitive metas look like.
From my perspective, a Mawcrusha (with Destroyer and Mean 'Un) plus a unit of buffed-up Ardboyz (+1 damage, +1 hit, possibly with +1/2 attacks) could both realistically wipe entire units in a single round of fighting. These, in turn, chain into each other with Smashin n Bashin. On that note alone, I have to wonder what armies can survive after having 2 full units removed before they get a chance to hit back. Of course, the answer is "don't let IJ charge you," but that may be easier said than done.
Again, I have no real experience in competitive play.
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17 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:
How do you guys feel about the Wurrgog Prophet over taking a Weirdknob? You lose the spell lore but he does cast/unbind twice a turn and has a nifty warscroll spell. More importantly he has the Fungoids 4+ for a CP.
He may have a place in IJ, but I think he would be more useful in a Big Waaagh. Maybe it's a little cheesy, but if you make him the general, he can get +1 to cast from the command trait, +1 from the artefact, and +2 to cast if you spend d6 Waaagh Points. With +4 to cast, Foot of Gork is going to be a 10+ cast roll 72% of the time, letting you deal a mortal wound to each model in a unit on a 4+. Use that on a skeleton or daemon blob, and you'll wipe half them out before movement even starts. Unless your opponent has an auto-unbind effect (which stormcast can do, but I'm not sure who else), it's also fairly safe from that.
And, as a bonus, he gives +1 Waaagh point per turn just for existing.
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1 minute ago, broche said:
@TALegion I like it, but i think you should break at least 1 units to increase your board coverage!
That's probably a good idea. I'd be fine splitting the 10-man Ardboy unit in two 5-man units, as they're probably the most efficient objective holders. Also, more total units = more units for the Waaagh count.
With my current list, if I get everyone in the 18" bubble (and I'm not sure how realistic that is), it's a 3+ to get 2 attacks vs. 1 attack. Idk how much people are factoring the Waaagh into their lists, but I have gut feeling that increasing your odds to get the 12+ could be worth it in some circumstances.
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11 minutes ago, Requizen said:
That... is a very good question. I would say Brutish Cunning would not work, as it lets you use it without a CP, but you still don't have access to the CA in the first place.
Can you use Ironfist in the first place? Big Waaagh requires you to all have the Orruk keyword, and the Battalion has the Ironjawz keyword. But all the units have Orruk? Not sure how that works.
I agree on Brutal Cunning - I'm almost certain that you can't use it. Ironfist is a little less clearly worded, just saying that you can use as if it were a megaboss without spending the point. It'd still make sense to say "No," because it's "as if it were a megaboss," but a Big Waaagh megaboss still wouldn't be able to use it.
I was under the impression that we could use battalions in a Big Waaagh. The page calls them "Orruk warscrolls and warscroll battalions," making them an Orruk option, rather than specifically IJ or bonesplitterz (as I read it). Is there a part that I'm missing where the battalions have "Ironjawz" as a keyword, but not "Orruk"?
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@broche I'm going to run nearly the same thing, but +5 Ardboyz and -Ironskull's Boyz. I'm also leaning toward taking the max-size units to make spreading warchanter buffs easier, making it look like:
Mawcrusha w/ Gore-Hacka (General w/ Brutal Cunning, Destroyer, Mean Un')
2x WC
Weirdnob w/ Hand of Gork (Shamanistic Skullcape)
15x Ardboyz
10x Ardboyz
10x Brutes w/ Choppas
6x Goregruntas w/ Choppas
Ironfist
Total: 2000Eventually, I want to try an Ironsunz list and a Da Choppas list, but Brutal Cunning sounds like a useful/interesting trait. I feel like 2 free Mighty Destroyers per turn will let me save command points and make the list pretty versatile and consistent.
In essence, the idea is to get to turn 2, buff the ardboyz and GG (unless brutes will get more attacks in), get everyone in an optimal position to charge, and just wipe stuff out. The mawcrusha is a suicide version, but if he can 1-shot a whole unit, he'll let you Smashin and Bashin into another unit. Best defense is a good offense, here.
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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, we're still able to bring and use the bannerboss in IJ and Big Waaagh lists? Of course we can't stack Waaaghs now, but that's much better than the alternative of not being able to bring the boss at all. It might still have potential if you stick it with a couple units of ardboyz, brutes, and WCs moving up the board.