TALegion

So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, we're still able to bring and use the bannerboss in IJ and Big Waaagh lists? Of course we can't stack Waaaghs now, but that's much better than the alternative of not being able to bring the boss at all. It might still have potential if you stick it with a couple units of ardboyz, brutes, and WCs moving up the board.

It's great to hear that Ironfist and (supposedly) Brutish Cunning work in Big Waaagh lists. Two MDs per turn is probably about as much as you'd normally use in a turn anyway. It makes the argument for Big Waaagh lists much better, imo. Is it normal for tournaments to houserule things like this? I don't play competitively enough to know if that's a normal thing to ask for. It'd certainly make it easier to just make the ability a universal +2 to Waaagh, and bloodtoofs could certainly use it. Without the ability, they're almost certainly the weakest clan. Would it be reasonable to bring your own realmgate and just ask if you're allowed to switch a terrain piece out for it in your games (seeing as you'd have been able to do that, had you set up the terrain yourself)?

At times where an ability gives a non-specific "the combat phase" or "the hero phase" (as opposed to "your hero phase"), you can use it in the opponent's phase as well as your own.

Thoughts on using Da Choppaz without a weirdnob general? All of the benefits are pretty versatile, so it seems like a possible default-option. (Note, this list is exactly 2000pts - warscroll builder incorrectly lists six GGs as 280pts) Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: ChoppasMortal Realm: ShyishMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Checked Out- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet- Mount Trait: Weird 'UnOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat10 x Orruk Brutes (280)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 2x Gore Choppas6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)- Pig-iron Choppas10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner BearersIronfist (160)Total: 1960 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 143 The idea is to alpha-strike with GGs and the MBMK turn 1, buffing the GGs with a WC and giving the MBMK Mystic Shield. The boss is super tanky and can probably live a round of combat, and the GGs will do huge damage on the charge. The opponent can either retreat (giving me the ability to move and charge again), continue to fight (letting me using 2 Might Destroyers at the start of my next turn), or wipe me out (which I think will be hard for many armies). The rest of the units move up the other side of the board, putting themselves in position for a turn-2 charge with most of them being buffed by a WC. The 5-man squad of ardboyz exists to capture back-line objectives. I made the MBMK the general because I think he'll be able to move around to where the 18" +2 bravery will be most useful. If that doesn't work out, the alternative idea is to make one of the WCs the general so that the buff is always in range of the Ardboyz+Brutes. Unfortunately, without a megaboss, you don't have access to Waaagh. That's not a complete deal-breaker, but I imagine that it'd be useful with so many ardboyz. If you wanted to squeeze in a footboss, you could drop the Mighty 'Eadbutt weirdnob and the balewind vortex. You could either give him the Ironsunz artefact or give one of your WCs a realm artefact

Any reason to go for the gorefist over the ironfist? Da Choppa's command ability can't target GGs, so you can't buff all three for the turn-1 gorefist charge. I figure that it'd be easier to use a 6-man unit (or 9, if you wanted to go all-in) and make them the ironfist boss. It'd also let you lessen your drops significantly.

Just a heads up: the Warscroll Builder and Azyr both have points wrong for some units. Warscroll currently lists GGs as 140 for three and Azyr is saying Weirdnobs are 120. According to the book, those two are 160 and 110, respectively.

Hi. For context: - The Ironfist battalion lets one of your units use the Mighty Destroyers command ability as though it were a megaboss - Might Destroyers is an Ironjawz allegiance ability - Big Waaagh! armies can use the Ironfist battalion, but are not an Ironjawz army (Big Waaagh is its own allegiance, but it uses all Orruk units) If I bring an Ironfist battalion in a Big Waaagh! army, can the unit use Might Destroyers, despite the command ability belonging to a separate allegiance?

If Azyr is known to be incorrect, then that's good. RaW still says that you can avoid the traits and artefacts by choosing the right general and artefact holders. I can tell you that the book says "wholly on or within a terrain feature." I've interpreted that to mean that "wholly" is applied to both "on" and "within." My thoughts exactly. You lose S+B, access to the clans, and the IJ Waaagh (though you get the Big Waaagh's version). I haven't played with the clans yet, so I'm not sure how they match up to the Waaagh points table, but the table is very, very useful. I'm going to test Ironsunz and Da Choppaz when I get a chance. I'm getting the feeling that Sunz are better with Mawkrushas and Choppaz are preferable if you bring no Mawkrushas.

One thing I just noticed when it comes to clans: the Azyr app is saying that the Clan armies must use the command trait and artefact from their clan. The wording in the book (e.g. "An Ironsunz Megaboss general must have..." and "The first Ironsunz Megaboss to receive an artefact...") implied to me that you could avoid taking them if you used a different general type (i.e. Taking a Weirdnob general in an ironsunz list, thus avoiding the "Megaboss" part), but the app is saying that you need to take the trait/artefact in all cases. I need to know this, too. I tried some lists yesterday and I had the most success with the Big Waaagh. If ironfist works in a Big Waaagh, it's going to be even better.

Is it confirmed that you can use the Ironfist's Mighty Destroyers in a Big Waaagh army? I was looking for a ruling on this and couldn't find anything analogous .

That's correct - only Brutes and Ardboyz.

Da Big Waaagh doesn't make you lose your Waaagh points until the end of the combat phase. For the whole phase, you will have all three: +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1 attacks.

I think you can do whatever you want. The clans all have their uses and are roughly equal in strength, and the book's command traits are also strong. I'm going to try our the Brutal Cunning trait (which gives you a free use of Might Destroyers) before I try any of the clans - it just sounds more fun to me. At some point, I'm also going to trying Ironclad + Weird 'Un (4+ to ignore spells) to make an unkillable boss

According to the videos, it's end of the phase. You can see it here, though it's a little blurry. It's definitely "end." So, it's not 100% OP - it's just a reactionary tool. I'd still put Ironsunz above Da Choppas if you're bringing a mawkrusha, for what it's worth.

According to the videos, it's end of the phase. You can see it here, though it's a little blurry. Still useful, but it's not able to interrupt or disrupt charges, afaik. You'll only be able to charge after they've already declared and completed all of their charges.

The Ironsunz CA is "at the end of the enemy charge phase," which means after all of their units have already charged, correct? It can't interrupt charges as much as respond to them, I think.

Weirdnobs get a free use of green puke, in addition to their other spell, if they're within 18" of a unit with 10 or more models, so you only need 1 to do a puke-port. It's still a 7 to cast and can be unbound, though, so it may be worth taking a +1 cast artefact if you want to make it more reliable.

I think Da Choppas are looking for army lists that are slightly different than traditional IJ ones. I think, since you want to lean into infantry-heavy lists, you probably are discouraged from bringing a Mawcrusha, as well. Also, the command ability doesn't affect gore-gruntas, which is unfortunate. And, from a competitive standpoint, Da Choppas have to contend with Ironsunz, who might just outclass them. Don't get me wrong - I fully intend on trying some Da Choppas lists. It seems like the best way to make an Ardboyz-spam army, which could be super entertaining. It might be the most consistent clan, too, since the army trait basically says "reroll all charges" in most battleplans, which is always going to be useful. This is especially true with a Weirdnob using Hand of Gork and giving the unit +d6 movement with green puke. That's a nearly-guaranteed charge out of deepstrike. Edit: Tbh, I think the summary is: If you bring a mawkrusha, Ironsunz is probably better. If you choose not to bring a mawkrusha and instead invest those 460 points into infantry, I think there's a legitimate argument for Da Choppas.

Shamelessly stealing 90% of this list from something @Malakree posted in the IJ thread: Total: 1940 Gordrakk - 540 WC - 110 Ardfist - 680 - 5x5 Ardboyz - WC Gorefist - 610 - 3x3 GG This is 4 drops and gives you 4 CP on turn 1. It guarantees 12 Waaagh Points on turn 1 (factoring in 'Ere we Go) and 20 on turn 2 with a good chance of hitting 24 on turn 2. The 5x5 Ardboyz give you a ton of map coverage and the opportunity to bring back a 10-man unit with the Ardfist. The Gorefist lets you own the map on turn 1, either setting you up for a turn 1 charge, threatening a charge, or grabbing objectives. Thoughts?

Wow, good call. That's a hilarious combo. The difference between an 8 inch charge (factoring in +1 charge) and 8 minus d6 is huge. Just the threat of having a near-guaranteed charge after deepstrike could be powerful - your opponents could never leave a valuable or weak unit vulnerable. That sounds like a really tempting 1750 list - I definitely want to try it. I think the 2000pt version with Gordrakk and the Boss (or a warchanter, which also gives you 60 pts for 1 CP) could be very usable in a Big Waaagh, too. If you take the WC, it's nearly guaranteed that you get 12 Waaagh pts for the 6+ fnp. Next turn, it's a guaranteed +1 hit, +1 wound, and +1 attack with Waaagh. All of this is at 4 drops, too.

What are people's thoughts on a Foot of Gork-spamming Wurrgog Prophet general in a Big Waaagh list? Taking the right command ability and artefact, you get +2 to cast (+3 if there's an enemy monster with 24") and +1 to unbind, both of which can be buffed by +2 for d6 Waaagh points. If you do that, it's a 6+ (5+ with a monster) for the big Foot of Gork with a low chance to get unbound. I think that's a hilarious amount of damage, period. Plus, you get the added versatility of having really powerful unbinding rolls (+3 for d6 Waagh points) for yourself, if needed. Is this a real option? Does anyone have any predictions for what armies will be able to beat IJ consistently? I'm very unfamiliar with what high-level, competitive metas look like. From my perspective, a Mawcrusha (with Destroyer and Mean 'Un) plus a unit of buffed-up Ardboyz (+1 damage, +1 hit, possibly with +1/2 attacks) could both realistically wipe entire units in a single round of fighting. These, in turn, chain into each other with Smashin n Bashin. On that note alone, I have to wonder what armies can survive after having 2 full units removed before they get a chance to hit back. Of course, the answer is "don't let IJ charge you," but that may be easier said than done. Again, I have no real experience in competitive play.

He may have a place in IJ, but I think he would be more useful in a Big Waaagh. Maybe it's a little cheesy, but if you make him the general, he can get +1 to cast from the command trait, +1 from the artefact, and +2 to cast if you spend d6 Waaagh Points. With +4 to cast, Foot of Gork is going to be a 10+ cast roll 72% of the time, letting you deal a mortal wound to each model in a unit on a 4+. Use that on a skeleton or daemon blob, and you'll wipe half them out before movement even starts. Unless your opponent has an auto-unbind effect (which stormcast can do, but I'm not sure who else), it's also fairly safe from that. And, as a bonus, he gives +1 Waaagh point per turn just for existing.

That's probably a good idea. I'd be fine splitting the 10-man Ardboy unit in two 5-man units, as they're probably the most efficient objective holders. Also, more total units = more units for the Waaagh count. With my current list, if I get everyone in the 18" bubble (and I'm not sure how realistic that is), it's a 3+ to get 2 attacks vs. 1 attack. Idk how much people are factoring the Waaagh into their lists, but I have gut feeling that increasing your odds to get the 12+ could be worth it in some circumstances.

I agree on Brutal Cunning - I'm almost certain that you can't use it. Ironfist is a little less clearly worded, just saying that you can use as if it were a megaboss without spending the point. It'd still make sense to say "No," because it's "as if it were a megaboss," but a Big Waaagh megaboss still wouldn't be able to use it. I was under the impression that we could use battalions in a Big Waaagh. The page calls them "Orruk warscrolls and warscroll battalions," making them an Orruk option, rather than specifically IJ or bonesplitterz (as I read it). Is there a part that I'm missing where the battalions have "Ironjawz" as a keyword, but not "Orruk"?

@broche I'm going to run nearly the same thing, but +5 Ardboyz and -Ironskull's Boyz. I'm also leaning toward taking the max-size units to make spreading warchanter buffs easier, making it look like: Mawcrusha w/ Gore-Hacka (General w/ Brutal Cunning, Destroyer, Mean Un') 2x WC Weirdnob w/ Hand of Gork (Shamanistic Skullcape) 15x Ardboyz 10x Ardboyz 10x Brutes w/ Choppas 6x Goregruntas w/ Choppas Ironfist Total: 2000 Eventually, I want to try an Ironsunz list and a Da Choppas list, but Brutal Cunning sounds like a useful/interesting trait. I feel like 2 free Mighty Destroyers per turn will let me save command points and make the list pretty versatile and consistent. In essence, the idea is to get to turn 2, buff the ardboyz and GG (unless brutes will get more attacks in), get everyone in an optimal position to charge, and just wipe stuff out. The mawcrusha is a suicide version, but if he can 1-shot a whole unit, he'll let you Smashin and Bashin into another unit. Best defense is a good offense, here.