Warmill
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Posts posted by Warmill
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Went to a team tourney on Sunday and managed to go 3-0 wiv da ladz! My list was a bit daft, I ran:
Krusha w/ arcane tome, master of magic, bash em ladz
Gordrakk
Rogue idol
2 chanters
3x5 ardboyz
Ironsunz clan
Game 1 was against ymetrica lrl, with teclis, cathallar, 2x5 stoneguard, 1x10 stoneguard and 30 sentinels on the hold objectives for 2 turns battleplan. He took turn 1 and put 14 wounds into my krusha, I shuffled up and didn't charge. He won prio t2 and killed my krusha, in my t2 I MD-charged some ardboyz and gordrakk into his screen and tagged the sentinels, then hopped gordrakk over the screen to pile into teclis while the rogue idol charged 5 stoneguard. Gordrakk slapped teclis down to 2 wounds, the rogue idol killed 4 guard. I won prio t3, MD piled in the idol into range of the sentinels then killed teclis and a load of sentinels with gordy and the idol combined. We played out his t3 then called it.
Game 2 was against a new player with sylvaneth, on tectonic interference, not much to say as he castled in one corner and didn't advance for 2 turns while I sat on the objectives. He won prio t3, Alarielle killed the krusha then gordrakk slapped alarielle in my t3 after a double pile in, we called it.
Game 3 was against some crazy cabalists std list, I took t1, buffed gordrakk and the krusha and yolo charged with them and the idol, popped the waagh and wiped 5 chaos knights, 30 marauders and some iron golems and chaos warriors. After this the std list had no output, he won prio t2 but failed any charges or kills and after I went he was down to some warcry guys and I won prio t3 having lost a single warchanter.
I definitely got lucky dodging some nasty thunder lizard lists, and my opponents weren't super experienced but since I was running such a daft list I'll take my wins where I can get them! The lrl list was the toughest, total eclipse really made me have to choose what to spend my cps on but I played my tightest game against a real tough list so was the high point of my day. Losing t3 prio would've made it a real uphill struggle but I think I had a good chance once I tied up the sentinels with the hero phase charge.
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1 hour ago, Andrew G said:
I agree with the end result of everything you outlined, but I'm much more black or white on this discussion.
A) Either all units who receive a CA need to meet the trigger condition at the time the CA is issued (be a target of an attack, an enemy ends a move within 9", etc.)
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B) One unit needs to meet the trigger condition for the CA to be issued, and then the other two selected units just need to be in range of the MB.
Picking and choosing when to apply either interpretation is just a little too arbitrary for my taste. If they wanted to get granular in the FAQ with each CA, and choose your interpretation for each CA, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I think they'll just pick either A and B when they clarify how the ability is supposed to work.I agree with you, it's going to get ruled 100% one way or the other, no individual CA interpretation. If there was going to be a granular interpretation it would've been covered in the megaboss rule to start with.
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25 minutes ago, dnusha said:
Analogy has nothing to do with the rules. Your point is "Megaboss issues a command, one guy recieves it and everything else doesn't matter, two other guys must recieve CA effect and there are no restrictions AT ALL that prevents them from recieving the effect", that is certainly not the case.
You do understand that my hypothetical apple-giving situation is using literally the same rules as issuing and receiving CAs, right? I'm applying the megaboss rule in its entirety because there IS nothing in the rule about restrictions, just pick 3 units to receive it. You're reading it as "may pick 3 units to receive the command ability instead of 1 as long as all 3 units meet all the requirements at the same exact moment", and that's not what the rule says is it?
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5 minutes ago, dnusha said:
yeah i don't think any judge would take your side on this but ok, i mean with enough mental gymnastics everything is possible i guess.
Should have been 'all the examples you list as absurd are perfectly valid' but I edited it halfway through. My point stands though, does my analogy help you understand why they're valid? As long as the hungry kid gets an apple the other 2 kids don't have to be hungry, according to the rules as written. Your take is that the rule was 'only' the hungry kid can get an apple, but that's not what the rules were.
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2 minutes ago, dnusha said:
Oh I'd be happy to be on the other side of the argument, I just don't think it's correct with the current rules. If we are impyling that we only need step 1 and we can igrone restriction of recieving CA for other two units just because MB said "they must recieve" we gonna have some crazy ****** going on with other CAs. If so let's try to ignore restrictions of other CA:
Redeploy - Only one guy needs to be in 9' and 2 others can be anywhere in 18' from the Boss and move d6 because someone moved on the other side of the board near the first guy.
Rally - need to be in 3' away from the enemy - lets ignore that for other 2 units and Rally right near the enemy!
Unleash Hell: enemy must finish charge within 9', one guy in 9' gets UH, two others units of 20 arrowboyz shoot from 18' Right? we are ignoring restrictions and applying the effect, and so on.
Obviously it's absurd. We can't just ignore restriction for CA because Boss saying so, we need a Step 2. Units should be eligible to recieve an effect of the ability. ATM for AoA it's not the case (other 2 units aren't attacking), yeah you kinda can apply AoD when unit splits attacks, but i think, despite of this post this is not how AoD (and AoA) should work.
GW just thrown this "pick 3 units instead of one" in a book without thinking of how that will exactly work(it used to work with Gordrakk but wording changed). It's not the first time they are doing this and it's not going to be the last one. Everyone make mistakes. AoA and AoD should give buffs to three units like Gordrakks CA used to do, they just need to fix wording or add additional lines in Warclans FAQ (obviously nobody is going to FAQ Core Rules) something like "In case of using AoD/AoA apply effect to two other IJ units".
If we are here to improve our game lets just write a letter/letters to AoSFAQ@gwplc.com to GW AoS Rules team and ask them to clarify this issue (in case you are going to do this please be polite and respectful).
Thing is, all the examples you list as absurd and are perfectly valid, rally specifically says 'the unit that receives the command must be more than 3" away from enemy units", which has a different meaning to "that unit", so no you couldn't triple issue it to a unit that was in combat. As long as 1 unit fulfils the requirement to issue the command, the other units can receive the command. You're confusing the requirements to issue a command with eligibility to receive a command, which is why it seems absurd to you.
As an analogy, if i'm in a room full of kids and my boss says when a kid is hungry you can give out an apple, the kid that is hungry must receive an apple, if I only have one apple the answer is obvious. If a bigger boss says when you give out an apple you can give out 3 apples instead of one, do the other 2 kids have to be hungry? No, as long as the hungry kid gets an apple.
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44 minutes ago, dnusha said:
In order to benefit from a command ability you have to recieve its effect. In order to recieve it you have to fit into restrictions for that effect. Other two units do not fit into it because they aren't attacking/not attacked.
Yes we can say that "If the effect of an ability contradicts a core rule, then the effect takes precedence." but "If the effect of an ability modifies a core rule, then all restrictions that apply to the core rule still apply unless the effect specifically notes otherwise."
Megaboss rule states "pick three units instead of one" - ok, we are modifying core rules for CA to work on 3 targets, but restrictions are still there. "effects have restrictions." Units can't recieve an effect because they aren't attacked or attacking even if megaboss issued a command.
Just another example: Unit moving into us, We are doing Redeploy because we are in 9'. But two other units are out of range of 9' - we are still moving them. Can we do this? No. Because restrictions are "within 9" of that enemy unit and more than 3" from all enemy units". Units that are far away can't recieve an effect because they do not fit into its restrictions.
The reason this is coming up is because people on your side of the argument are reading that for a unit to receive a command ability it has to fall in to steps 1 and 2, I'm pointing out that only step 1 is required to issue a command ability. "You can issue this ability when a unit is attacked": that's it, fulfil that requirement and you can issue the command. The megaboss fits into the sequence here, at which point you can choose 3 units to receive it. Step 2 then comes in to effect, which is that the unit that was targeted must receive it. The rules don't say only that unit can receive it, or a unit must be attacked to receive it, just that the unit that IS targeted must receive it. That's the difference, and that's why triple spamming attack and defence is valid. "That unit must receive the command" does not exclude "other units may receive the command", the megaboss specifically allows other units to receive the command.
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4 minutes ago, Boar said:
I am not entirely convinced. Step 3 calls again for "that unit" to recieve benfit, which looks like it refers too unit that fulfills initial criteria. In that case you can issue 3 commands but only one would have effect. Perhaps.
Anyway where FAQ is due? I don't remember when exactly books came out.Step 3 is describing the effect you apply to the unit that has been issued the command ability, eg add +1 to save or +1 to hit at the point when you roll dice, not when the command is issued, as per the core rules.
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28 minutes ago, dnusha said:
Oh i wish for that to be like this but in my understanding in order for "until the end of that phase" take an affect unit in question must fit into restrictions of the command ability (which is also what core rules are telling to us - "If the effect of an ability modifies a core rule, then all restrictions that apply to the core rule still apply unless the effect specifically notes otherwise." ) And it does not seems to be the case. We are applying restriction to Redeploy when we are measuring 9' range or when we are doing the same for Unleash Hell or Rally (only units in certain range from enemy unit can recieve a command), , but we won't be doing this here? That doesn't seem right.
"when you pick a friendly unit to shoot in your shooting phase or fight in the combat phase. That unit must receive the command." Can you pick multiple units to fight at the same time? No. You are picking units to fight one by one. Who recieves the command? a Unit that has been picked to fight. One unit. What about the other guys? They don't get picked - they don't fit into restrictions - they won't recieve a command. At least this is how current all-out attack wordring works. Same thing with All-our defence "unit is picked as the target of an attack" how many units at same time can be attacked by another unit ? several if you split your attacks. one - most of the time. You still can use all-out defence on three units if someone splits attacks and attacks three of your units. But can a unit that hasn't been attacked recieve a command? No.
If AoA would start with "at the star of combat phase pick a unit, that unit gets x" i wound have no problem with it. No, they went with current wording because it looks more flexible and less confusing (you can react to being attacked(the whole point of 3.0 commands) or pick a unit that is actually going to attack and not already recieved the damage) but at the same that ****** up things for x3 commands. Oversight? It's likely, taking into account that in 2.0 the same unit was capable of issuing basically the same command to three units.
You've missed a very important part of the command ability wording though.
Step 1) you can issue this command ability when a unit is the target of an attack. Ok, unit A is the target, that means we can issue the command ability, which means we must pick a unit to do the issuing. I pick my maw krusha, whose rule specifically states when it's chosen to issue a command it can pick 3 friendly units to receive it instead of 1.
Step 2) that unit must receive the command ability. Ok no problem, I pick that unit A as one target, and units b and c as the others. I've now fulfilled the second part of the command ability, which is that that unit must receive the command.
Step 3) that unit adds +1 to save rolls until the end of the phase. Cool, 3 units now get to add +1 to their saves until the end of the phase, because the maw krusha issued the command to 3 units instead of 1.
Is there any restrictive language in the megaboss ability as to what units can receive a command ability? No.
Is there any restrictive language in the command abilities that a unit can only use AoD or AoA if it is the target of an attack or is attacking at that moment? No, that's why they say 'until the end of the phase'.
The language is simple and the intent is obvious, just spam those command abilities until an faq says you specifically can't.
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45 minutes ago, dnusha said:
Redeploy wording is pretty clear, they were talking about ambushing units on objectives. You park 3 units near objective, enemy unit approaches in 9' - all of them eligable for Redeploy closer to that unit for consequent Ironsunz charge in the end of opponents charge phase. Result: You got the objective, killed a unit and triggered SnB for 2 cp in opponents turn.
As for AoD atm according to current rules it only works on multiple units if a unit splits its attacks. I'm all for AoD AoA to work on multiple units. In fact i think that the whole idea of mass commands has its roots in 2.0 Voice of gork and should work that way. You are right we have to wait for FAQ.
All out attack and all out defence both include the words "until the end of that phase", the rules already include an allowance that they may take effect outside of the immediate issuing of that command ability. This coupled with the fact the megaboss ability is very simple, "when you issue a command ability with this model you may pick 3 units to receive it instead of 1" with no restrictive language at all makes it pretty clear to me you can triple issue aoa and aod with the only restriction being that a unit must be attacked or attack to issue it, and that unit must be 1 of the 3 that receives it. I'll be so glad when it gets faq-ed, because this is one of those situations where a large part of the community seems to have decided a rule must be way more complicated than it is.
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On 9/20/2021 at 8:49 AM, Liquidsteel said:
I think it comes down to what the word "benefit" means in the context of Age of Sigmar.
As has been pointed out to me previously on this, apparently "benefit" was the old way of saying "receive" a command ability, though now for AoS 3 we have receive and issue making things a bit clearer.
In this scenario, what does "benefit from" mean?
Does it mean receive, and thus it can be stacked, or does it actually mean benefit as per the definition of the word, and thus you can only ever have +1 attack from it, regardless of how many times you actually stack the ability?
I play Soulblight, and I'm the type of player to try and play every rule to my advantage, however I find this one to be a bit of a stretch purely RAW, because to me "benefit" means benefit, and you can't benefit more than once, meaning you can't ever have more than +1 attack from this ability. Even my WAAC brain would feel slightly dishonest using this one, unless cleared with a TO ahead of time.
This is the correct answer. Benefit and receive have distinct definitions, they don't mean quite the same thing: receive means be given while benefit means to gain an advantage from; the advantage of the command ability is +1 attack.
The real answer is that it's a typo like the wight king's CA, it should say use in hero phase last til next hero phase, or use in combat phase last til end of combat phase.
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43 minutes ago, Boggler said:
Thanks for the love.
To add to my post above.
My Tactics were:
Ferocious Advance - Success!
Monstrous Takeover - Success!
Broken Ranks - Success!
Savage Spearhead - Success!
Conquest - Fail!
Those are the five tactics that I would normally try and complete. They seem the easiest to me and can be done in any order. Bring it Down can replace any of these situationally of course! Same with Slay the Warlord.
We are not really in a bad place, just different tactics must be used, and more minis need to be purchased and assembled and then painted... Waaaagh!!!
This is kind of my problem, I don't want ij to win by playing for battle tactics and scoring vps here and there with spare and beaten up units, I want them to win by destroying my opponent in combat by turn 2 😆
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2 hours ago, Boggler said:
I just finished a 2k game vs Stormcast. He had 30 libs, 4 Fulmns, 6 Longstike, Gardus, The mission was The Vice.
I had planned on going with my first list:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (85)
3 x Morgok's Krushas (90)
Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157
Drops: 12but then at the last second decided to go with:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Jagged Gore-hackas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- Reinforced x 1
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 160
Drops: 2Hindsight 20/20. I wished that I had those exta smaller units to screen the backfield though its pretty uncommon for the backfield to be so big as it is in The Vice. I lost the game 17-15. I could have totally won if I played better. Here are some thoughts:
Stormcast are buffed now. WoW Liberators. 4+ save becomes 3+ vs Ardboys, GL with that. I can't kill you. You can't kill me, except if I kill you during Waaagh then you fight back and kill me and or splash me with Mortals when you die. Ardboyz Bravery was a huge problem. I rolled a 5/6 a few times and lost a guy or two more than once. I also used Inspiring Presence a few times!
Deployment for The Vice was a bit of a standoff. I got to choose who went first. We both Castled up. I kept the 2 units of 3 pigs in the back to get the objective. Everything else was outside 36" of his Longstrikes. I gave him first turn. He did nothing but move forward his screens and run the longstrikes up. In my turn, I moved some units around so that I could possibly MD a few units to charge in next turn. the two units of 3 pigs took both flanks and threatened the longstrikes.
I won the roll for T2, gave him the turn. He moved up some more with the screens but didn't realize how far 18" was. The pigs could move around the side of one screen and hit the Fulms if I wanted. They had to survive that Unleash Hell though... 4 4+ D3 mortals is so good. He used Gardus to shoot the Longstrikes in the Hero Phase at the unit of 6 pigs killing two of them. Then his Longstrikes shot at the 3 pigs threatening them. He did 14 wounds leave the boss on 1 wound, lol, he will be super usefull later.
In my T2 I decided that it was now or never for the Waaaagh. He had a lot of Liberators to get through but I was confident that I could get the 3 pigs and both units of 10 Ardboys into combat. I was successful. The lone GG charged into the Fulms, eating the Unleash Hell. He died well, the other 3 smashed into the Fulms doing 3 mortals, which became 1 mortal after Gardus 5+ ignore. After combat the 3 GG were only able to kill 1 Fulm. Even with AAA. Fulms 3+ save became a 2+ with AAD then the waaagh made it a 4+. Uggghhh. The Gardus 5+ ignore lol... The Fulms and another screening unit of Libs killed two pigs, the last pig fled to battleshock. The 20 Ardboys got about 18 into 1" range and managed to kill only 1 Liberator total. I rolled a lot of dice to make that happen. I would prefer to roll less dice next time and actually kill something but if this is their new roll then I will have to learn to live with it. Wow. The Ardboys did bad. Or maybe they did good because they were still in their combat going in to T4/5 when he killed the last of them. I guess they are now a tarpit? Ugh, I remember the days when they had output!
T3 He won the rolloff and decided to kill my MBMK. He tele'd the Fulms near the MBMK, which he can do on a 3+ then they can move in the MV phase. My MBMK made his 5 on Redeploy making it an 8 charge. The damage came from shooting, the MBMK took 4 mortals and failed 7/8 4+ saves taking 18 wounds from the Longstrikes. Lucky I made 6 5+'s with the only Artifact you'll ever need but the MBMK was crippled and I was shocked at the damage. At least he did 5 mortals to a Fulm at the end of the Charge phase! killing one and leaving only two left. The MBMK died, but only just barely like I need 2/3 5+ saves on the final dice, lol! The other combats were the Ardboys vs the Liberators. OMG lots of dice! OMG not much going on! At least one unit of Ardboys even had the Warchanter helping buff them but those saves and the lack of rend made for some sad faces.
In my turn I buffed up the 10 man Brutes, these guys could easily get in to the Fulms. The 4 pig unit went in to his backfield to charge the Longstrikes. I was feeling good. All ten Brutes made it in to combat with the Fulms. They only killed one. One Fulm. Ten +1 dam 2" -2 rend Brutes did 6 wounds to a Fulm, lol... The 4 pigs smashed in to the Longstrikes doing 4 mortals, and killing two guys! Then they got Unleashed on and two died, the remaining two did absolutely nothing to the Longstrikes, not even a wound, then they got attack by some Libs and I lost another pig. The last one flew to BS... Wow. I was like wtf really, that happened? The beginning of the turn I was so confident that I would kill both of his hammers... I killed none of them... with my two hammers... bad luck I guess.
The rest of the game was just a formality. I still scored some and him some. The Ardboys finally died. The Brutes lived until the end and wound up running asway so he couldn't get my Hold the Line pts. What a game! The only time I was ever able to kill a whole unit and set off Smashing and Bashing was when a Warchanter decided to charge a unit of 3 Aetherwings. In every other situation I just bounced off the armor.
Thanks for reading. Its not the same army. Its go tricks and is super fast. Losing the MBMK was a big shock for me but I'll do better next time.
Glad to see it's not just me then, your matchup was very similar to mine with pretty much the same results. We just don't hit like we used to except in that one waaagh turn. Losing access to a metalrippa krusha for reliable output is just huge.
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1 hour ago, Leshoyadut said:
But directly under where you highlight has "use" being, well, used in the sense of issuing a command, not receiving one.
I've included the rest of the text here for completeness:
So use in that case is just the wording of the command ability, because sbgl was written with one foot in aos 2.0 where all command abilities just say 'use', and aos 3.0 where issue and receive have distinct meanings. The effect on manny is that to 'use' the ability has the effect of both issuing and receiving on him in that first phase, receiving on other units in that phase (core rules faq again), but not receiving on himself or other units in future phases.
In the case of our venga boy, the most concrete definition of what 'use' means is in rule 6.1:
So using a command ability specifically requires a cp, an issuing unit and a receiving unit (both bolded). It's establishing that you can't separate the act of of using a command ability from needing an issuer and receiver. If the rule says venga boy can't use a command ability, I think it's fair to take from that that he can't be the issuer or the receiver; since both are required to complete the action of using a command ability, if he's used to fulfil one of the requirements he's being used to use a command ability.
Ultimately it's a case of applying 3.0 rules to 2.0 language, and the 3.0 version would be 'this model cannot issue or receive a command ability', but we have to work with what we've got in the meantime and I think it's about as close to a logical interpretation based on the rules as written as you're going to get.
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20 hours ago, NearlyHeadlessNickAOS said:
@BaylorCorvette I just wanted to check in and see how you were using the Vengorian Lord in regard to Undeniable Impulse. It reads that you cannot "use" a command ability if you roll equal or less than the current battle round. Does that mean that The Vengorian Lord could not receive a command from another Hero like Prince V?
The way I would interpret it is that he can't issue or receive targeted command abities, but can still be affected by aura command abilities. This is based on the core rules faq, I've highlighted the relevant bit. Yeah it would be clearer if it said cannot issue or receive, but I think arguing receiving a CA doesn't count as using one would be a tough ask m'lud. I always run Lauka and a venga boy so it does pain me when I can't pop an all out defence to make them super tanky.
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Just had 2 real feels-bad games against a stormcast list, both ganes were over turn 2.
My list:
2 krushas, 1 general with amulet and impact hits CT, 1 with armour of gork and fast un.
2 chanters
2x5 brutes
1x15 ardboyz
1x3 gruntas
Madcap shaman
Ironsunz
His list:
Gardus steelsoul
Lord relictor
6 longstrikes
4 fulminator dracoths (spears)
3x5 libs
2 chariots
1x3 aetherwings
Battleplan was feral foray. Game 1 he made me go first, I MD the ardboyz and brutes then move everything up with the krushas positioned for a counter charge. He hero phase shoots the ardboyz and only does 5 damage, then shoots the AoG krusha, i roll 10 4+ saves, fail 8 then only roll 1 6++ to take 15 damage. Fulmis charge in and split attacks, I roll 7 4+ saves against the spears on the krusha and fail all of them 🙄 while 8 more ardboyz go down. At this point he wins prio turn 2 and we call it to rerack.
Game 2 I test going ham with the krushas, general hits the fulmis while the AoG hits some aetherwings and libs. After both swing I've killed a total of 1 fulmi and 1 liberator, and take the last wound of the aetherwings that had survived 8 krusha shots and a 5mw stomp. His turn 1 he kills my general and beats the other krusha down to 9 wounds left while my krusha manages to do 3 wounds to a chariot. I win prio t2 and take it, charge in the ardboyz and 5 brutes. By the end of my turn 2 the other krusha is dead, 5 brutes failed to charge a chariot, the ardboyz did 3 damage to a fulmi and nothing to a unit of libs, while the 5 brutes did 3 damage to the same libs. We called it before he took his turn 2.
Overall it felt terrible, he was rolling real hot on the armour saves and 5++ aura from gardus steel soul while I couldn't roll to save me life, but it really felt like a no win situation. 30" range on the longstrikes, a teleport, the speedy chariots and the fulmis meant I couldn't stay back and wait for him to unpack his castle, while all of his stuff was on a 3+ save and the 5++ aura stopped the few attacks that managed to get through. The krushas were absolutely terrible, losing the impact hits for the stomp is a major nerf however you cut it, especially now you can't do them in the hero phase or double stack it, and rend 1 just doesn't cut it against that kind of armour. I had hopes for the 15 ardboy rally blob but the amount of rend 2 damage 2 he had meant they were barely a speedbump. I enjoyed the first couple of games with the new book, but this just really knocked the shine off them.
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5 hours ago, frostfire said:
One of my local players pointed out this section in the Core Rules:
12.3 COMBAT ATTACKSAfter you have made all of the pile-in moves for a unit, you must makecombat attacks with each model in the unit that is within range of anenemy model (see 13.1.2).meaning that you must attack after piling in, is that making any sense?It's just wishful thinking, piling in is very clearly defined within 12.2. 12.0 to 12.1.2 is defining the sequence within the fight phase that goes pile in > attack and it's not the fight phase so doesn't apply.
Mighty destroyers only allowed a pile in in the 1.0 ironjawz book and grand allegiance destruction, there's plenty of precedent for it being pile in only.
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On 9/14/2021 at 8:08 PM, Predien said:
What do your Avengorii lists look like? That's the dynasty I've been drawn to the most but haven't had much time to test out lists outside of a weird 2500pt event I went to before 3.0 came out and used them. What are your overall thoughts on Avengorii?
I wrote the list when the book dropped before 3.0 because I love Lauka Vai and the venga boys, but it's turned out to actually be pretty good. Just cycle buffs, finest hours, mystic shields and all out defences to keep all the heroes on a 2+ save and run around living their best lives. Currently 5-1 with it, I lost in the final game of a local 1-dayer to a morathi bow snake list but heavily outscored them turns 1 and 2, if I'd played a bit better and had a bit more luck turn 3 I reckon I could've taken it but sadly the bow sneks took their toll and I had some bad whiffs at crucial moments.
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9 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
There was a strong performance from a Soulblight list this weekend at the Facehammer GT at Element Games, played by Tom Mawdsley (former Team England ETC player/captain).
Went 4-0-1 in the end, losing only in game 5 to the eventual winner and from what I heard, it came down to or was partly effected by Vhordrai fluffing his lines somewhat in an important combat phase.
Nevertheless it holds up what we already knew about Blood Knights, and I am pleased to see Grave Sand Shard make an appearance as I've been touting it as a strong choice in this meta, over the stock pick of Fragment of the Keep, especially when you factor in the re-rolling 1s on Deathless that banners offer. Not to say Fragment is bad, both are excellent, but nice to see it feature so well finally.
Even better is the cameo from Kritza, as well as seeing him forgo any low drops in favour of Vanguard/Hunters.
Worth pointing out his match ups, he played in to Archaon twice, Sons of Behemat twice, and a third list that I cannot see. So the list did not face any strong shooting it seems, though with so many blood knights it may not have been a problem anyway. I would like to have seen how that matchup would have gone against a strong opponent rounds 3/4/5.
Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vengorian Lord (280)*
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Kritza, the Rat Prince (95)**
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)***
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
Units
3 x Fell Bats (75)*
3 x Fell Bats (75)*
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Vanguard
***Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 1955 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
Drops: 8Really good performance, I've only been running Avengorii (Lauka Bae for lyfe!) so not overly familiar with blood knights, but my instinct was they would struggle against big tough heavy hitters, so happy to be proven wrong!
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7 hours ago, dnusha said:
@Warmill People saying gordrakk is overcosted in comparison to what normal BoMK can do, but he's the only character that can give three commands per turn to ANY friendly unit in Big Waagh. His ability affect friendly UNITS unlike BoMK that only affects Ironjaws. Unleash hell or All out attack for 3 full units or arrowboys or new crossbow dudes per turn? You can have that now. First turn fast At the double piggies to cut your opponent from objectives? You can have that now. Opponent charges? Redeloy your entire line of shooters with Redeploy.(or just kill them with UH)
Gordrakk is 560 vs MK 480. thats 80 points.
pros:
- 3 Commands to ANY units in Big Waagh per turn. (do IJ still have GSG as an ally? If so...) is this alone worth 80 points? Maybe.
- 2 more wounds
- gets an additional attack per turn for killing a model (because he has two weapons so 2 attacks per turn)
- has 3 more attacks than BoMK (because BoMK with a riptooth fist has 7 attacks in default profile)
- deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not)
-hits on 2 instead of 3
-his MK roar has 2 more attacks(6) (BoMK has 4)
-His MK has one more attack thank a usual one
-Does one more mortal wound if Stomp Monster Rampage is used with stronger destructive bulk
-He is a general (you still gonna have d6 waagh points per turn if your other general gonna die)
cons:
- 4+ save instead of 3+ on usual MK (riptooth fist in not even +1 save, it changes save from 4 to 3 which is awesome because it's not a +1 modifier)
- unable to pick warlord traits (no access to 5-6 mighty destroyers per turn or charge rerolls during IJ waagh)
-unable to pick artefacts which in our case means unable to take 5+ ward save (this in conjunction with 4+ save make him very vulnerable).
Gordrak is tailored to be a melee powerhouse, but he needs to survive and in comparison to BoMK he lasks alot of things in that department. People gonna focus him hard, even harder than before because in 3rd edition Megabosses had become literally the pillars or Ork armies, Without multiple commands from megabosses troops gonna go down fast. My take on this is that Gordrak is good in big waagh, and for sure worth 80 points, otherwise BoMK is way better in almost everything. Also two BoMK is not a mistake imo. Permanent all out defence + mistic shield should do the work to keep them alive.
I've always been a big fan of double krusha and krusha/gordrakk and to be honest I alway treated gordrakk as a little sub-game of how much can I level him up. I think ironsunz is probably the best clan for him so you can get him fighting as many turns as possible to really boost the axes. Gordrakk + shaman general with touched by the waagh could be a fun combo as well, so you can try and cast foot of gork without missing out on the waaagh turn if the shaman gets sniped early.
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27 minutes ago, Carnith said:
So what I'm now hearing is All out Attack and All out Defense wouldn't work with megaboss as the trigger conditions are different. Could you give all out attack to a unit that isn't fighting yet from this ability? Faqs are needed.
I had a lengthy discussion about this on the fb group and imo spamming all out attack and defence is perfectly valid. My boring technical reasoning is this:
Green shows what the trigger requirements are to issue the AOD CA: use it when a unit is targeted. The purple is the second requirement: the unit that is targeted must receive the CA. The red is the benefit the unit gets.
So a unit is targeted, that triggers being able to use the CA from the megaboss, requirement 1 met. You can issue it to 3 units, one of whom will be the unit that was targeted: that fulfills the second requirement, THAT unit receives the CA, so you're then free to use it on 2 other units while still meeting the requirement. The CA doesn't say that the unit must BE targeted to receive AOD, only that the unit that IS targeted must, which it does as one of 3 units.
That's my rules lawyer argument, the real argument is of course it's intended for you to be able to spam CAs cos it's the battletome and it takes priority.
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I realise he's at least 60 points overcosted but I'm really looking forward to running gordrakk in my lists, sucks he didn't get rend 2 axes but I think there's some worth to having a backup general for calling the waaagh in case your main krusha or other general gets sniped before the key turn. Pretty much makes amulet of destiny even more essential for your general now though. Losing metalrippa was a big blow as well but the extra fist damage at least makes up for it.
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On 9/10/2021 at 12:15 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I definitely think there is a strong case that this is how it works right now. But it's almost certainly an unintended interaction that they just didn't catch in the FAQs.
Good news if you want to give it a spin at some point, though: If you make use of the Pack Alpha combo in Vyrkos, you'll have easy access to extra generals. Belladamma is good in pretty much any list, and you can get Kritza for 95 points if you just want an extra general that just won't stay dead.
I see where you are coming from with this, and the wording is vague enough to support it.
But to make the case against your reading, I would point to the fact that all commands used the "benefit" wording to mean "receive" before receiving and issuing commands became a thing in 3rd edition. The whole concept didn't exist in 2nd, and that makes it difficult to argue that we should base our interpretation of a ruel's effects around this precise difference in wording.
Alternatively, you could try to claim that "The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per phase" leaves enough room for interpretation to make attack bonus stacking still go through by RAW. You could say that, since you issued the command in two separate phases, the unit is not benefitting from it more than once per phase. There are two relevant combat phases in which you issued it, and it benefits once for each of those phases.
In reality, though, the answer is as always: If you want to use this in a tournament, ask your TO to give a ruling. If you want to use this casually, don't. It's almost certainly an exploit, even though it survived two FAQs. Make your life easy and just argue it's probably unintended and don't get caught up in the trap of trying to argue what is or is not RAW.
I think it's a real stretch to claim that getting 2 uses out of an ability in one phase is only benefitting from it once. Receive and benefit don't mean the same thing, if it said a unit may only receive the ability once per phase I'd say stack away, but it doesn't. Break it down:
A) What is the benefit of the command ability? It gives you +1 attack.
B) If you give a unit +2 attacks from 2 uses of the command ability, it's benefitting from it twice.
C) A unit can only benefit from this ability once per phase.
How do you allow A and B without breaking the rule in C? You can't, as the command may have been issued in 2 separate phases but you're still trying to benefit from it twice on the same unit in the same phase.
Edit: the real answer is it's supposed to say either use in hero phase, last til next hero phase, or use in combat phase, last til end of that phase and it slipped through the proofreading net like the wighr king CA.
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46 minutes ago, Boggler said:
I really didn't think that I'd need another 6 GG's after this book came out... I went hard in to Brutes this past Summer LOL. To round out my army a bit more. I have 18 GG's, do I really need another 6? probably? I had 5 Brutes with Choppas, then I just made another 10 with 2HW
I am also interested in 2 x 15 Ardboys. Can the Megaboss use Rally on both? I haven't seen the exact wording of the warscroll yet.
You could rally on both, but you only get the 4+ rally if it's the unit champion that issues it so a choice between rallying 2 on 6s or rallying 1 on 4+ 🤷♂️
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30 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
It's not wishful thinking I assure you.
What a pile in is very clearly defined, it's 12.2. I'll cross my fingers for 'and attack' to be added to mighty destroyers but right now we ain't fighting in the hero phase anymore.
AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
You can't break coherency through any movement, every time you move a unit it has to end in coherency. Core rule 1.3.3.