zilberfrid
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Posts posted by zilberfrid
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On 7/25/2019 at 5:34 PM, Double Misfire said:
I don't know about anyone else here, but boy am I getting bored of repeat wishlisting and unit cull predictions when so far we've got nothing to go on!
NEW THREAD QUESTION: What is your favourite of the established Free Cities, or have you created your own?
My personal favourite is Greywater Fastness, because Cannons (obviously), their having the same colour scheme as my existing Dwarf and Empire stuff (Averland 😢
I have created my own city. Greifsstadt, a twin city of Hyish and Ghur. The people there are drawn toward the other side. People in Hyish grow up in ordered, peaceful society, until they grow unruly and restless, and move to through the gate, where they revel in the bloodshed of the hunt (until their old age kills them). People born in Ghur generally retire to Hyish after some 35 years and further arts and knowledge there, some even turning to magic.
Horses are rare in Greifsstadt, a stouter version of gryph hounds is much more common, still hooved in its hind legs, it needs to hunt and kill more often, which fits the land. The people of Silverheart are proud that they hold their Ghur part so well against Chaos and Destruction, but are wary around Stormcast, as these tend to misinderstand their habits.
The ruler of Greifsstadt is called the Karl, and the current one happens to be called Franz. He is closely allied with Shirdan, a beast wizard that breeds the demigryphs and quartergryphs in Ghur, as well as the majestic giffin the Karl rides.
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10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
Those Steam tanks are adorable!
I'll look into it a bit later, but I think you will if there's a city that allows Ironweld in the main army, and probably otherwise as well. May yet be a full regiment.
You have more than an army, let's start with that
I think I see a nice option (I use https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ for this):
20 halberdiers
20 spearmen
10 archers
10 crossbowmen
10 gunners (You'd prefer 3x gunners, but this is what you have)
Gather the rest of the troops and you might get to 10 more halberd guard (maybe glue a few axe heads and clip spears)
10 greatswords (reichsguard on foot)
5 outriders (gun riders)
Convert 5 reichsguard into pistoleers
call 3 reichsguard Demigryph knights
General on horse with stately warbanner
General on foot
Steam Tank
Helblaster volley gun
Batallion: Regiment
Alternatively, allegiance: Order
1x Ironweld Engineer
1x (counts as) Archmage on horse
1 Freeguild general on foot
1 Battlemage on Griffin
1x Witch hunter
2x Reichsguard counts as Dragon Riders
20 Halberd guard
20 Pike guard
10 handgunners
10 counts as greatswords
2x steam tank
1x cannon
1x volley gun
That should be a list few people see, and it's not entirely hopeless
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13 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
I just went in my attic and grabbed in the bottom of some drawer my very old GW WHFB Empire army. Last time I gathered it all was almost 3 decades ago.
I took pleasure to gather them all on the corner of the table. Most of the minis are in metal. My favourite are the gun horsemen (the white ones in the right) and most of the canons (one of each maybe some out of production).
It is weaird that I have 12 crossbows/gun men/bow men . We can see behind the pegase an old general on griffon (metal, that's why it is tiny but way heavier that the taller pplastic one).
Do you think that I can build an AoS army with this?
Those Steam tanks are adorable!
I'll look into it a bit later, but I think you will if there's a city that allows Ironweld in the main army, and probably otherwise as well. May yet be a full regiment.
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Just now, michu said:
You haven't even see the city rules and you already know they will be not worth it? If you think it will be simple "Firestorm reprint" you're wrong. Firestorm didn't have Artefacts, Command Traits, Spell Lores, Endless Spells, Terrain...
I'm pretty sure that Cities of Sigmar abilities will be better than Free Peoples ones as usually Battletome abilities > GHB abilities.
We'll see. This certainly is not a battletome like any we've seen before, if only for the sheer amount of factions it encompasses.
The base abilities for FP aren't that bad, it's the warscrolls that are lacking.
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10 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:
Until next GHB, when I imagine it'll go
Then we have replaced the entire Freeguild allegiance with a city? I certainly hope you'll be proven wrong.
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10 minutes ago, michu said:
You're not losing anything? Freeguild (as a human-only faction) still have its Allegiance Abilities in GHB 2019? As it's not "Cities of Sigmar" you still will be able to use it?
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I meant that switching allegiance away from Freeguild to a city is quite expensive, and I doubt whether a city gives somthing that makes it worthwhile.
The poor old warscrolls need all the help they can get.
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20 minutes ago, Charlo said:
I don't think it's a catch all battletome to update the old factions at all. It's a faction to represent the free Cities. If you're expecting more you're only going to be disappointed I'm afraid.
Oh, I think I will be. I thought GW would finally do something for old factions, but it'll be little more than a reprint of Firestorm as an excuse to toss out old moulds.
Still, a reprint of Firestorm is more than nothing, and with a little luck there will be one allegiance that's halfway worth losing Great Companies.
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8 minutes ago, Charlo said:
In terms of allegiance abilities, battleline and allies, based on other tomes I think it will look something like this:
Allegiance: The City you are from. This will no doubt have a unique allegience ability, a mandatory artefact, command trait, command abilitiy for you to use. What keywords you can take will depend on the city. There will not be unique allegiances for Free Peoples/ Disspossesed/ Wanderers etc in this book, if you want those you'll have to play those armies as purely that keyword.
Battleline: I think having "battleline if general is X" is probably too much to factor in on top of cities restrictions, basic battleline etc. I think to maximise the fluff and ease of use, you'll have differing batteline depending purely on the city. So the Phoenecium may have Phoenix Guard and Dwarf Warriors, whereas Hammerhaal will be very open.
Allies: similar to Death, the subfactions (collegiate arcane, free peoples etc) will remain and those allegiances will be the same. Cities will never be a full ally in themselves as they cover too much, however cities will be able to take certain allies depending on the city. Alternatively, they may just say no allies but instead the rules for adding Stormcast/ Kharadron etc and those gaining the city allegiences makes up for it.
Hmm. So nothing in it that would make it a battletome for the old factions, just a reshuffle if you use city as allegiance?
I see this as a possibility, just a highly undesirable one.
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9 minutes ago, dekay said:
The tome looks pretty much standard, however it would be downright *weird* if they changed the battletome layout in the middle of edition... No way do know it yet, though, so let's concentrate on what we know:
If the card box is not a mock up and it is indeed its final size, it's around [ha, background in game publishing comes in handy for once] 60-70 card box? Possibly the same size they use for 40k datacards [it seems similarily constructed anyway] and they tend to come in numbers around 65. Hard to judge by reflection alone. We need to squeeze token sheets into it as well, probably. And possibly endless spells, though I'm not sure if we're getting those.
Correction:
the highest number of 40k datacards they put into one box as of now seems to be 78. In such case, it would mean we're keeping most of the warscrolls, so one might hope.
We haven't had a tome trying to cram what now are some 80 unique unit warscrolls in one book.
Skaven "only" has 36, so this book would need to fit almost double that (considering some units are going to go).
Since unit warscrolls are a free resource, they need not put them in the book, and I'd rather they just gave instructions to look up the latest version.
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2 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:
My issue with Ghur is that no one ever even gave it a chance. It was written off day one. Personally I think it’s great and people should try and play it at tourneys.
If I recall correctly, it's also one of the few not blatantly favouring casters.
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27 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:
Just look a the reflection of the warscroll card box, maybe they will make them mandatory and switch them over.
That would leave some room for the tome. Which certainly does not look that thick from this angle.
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14 minutes ago, dekay said:
Gloomspite Gits, as another tome with several sub-factions, needed around 60 pages for rules. They have 3 subfactions and 40 warscrolls. The same with Skaven: around 40 warscrolls + 5 subfactions and it takes more than 60 pages. We'll have 7 subfactions, and, currently, have around 90 warscrolls. Each warscroll takes either an entire page or a half. Being conservative here, Free Cities battletome would need 120 pages for rules alone. That's entirety of normal battletome, more or less. So Either our battletome is twice the size of others, or it will go through some serious culling process.
The huge one would be, of course, fun but what are the chances for it?
We have a picture showing a bit of the side, similar to a shot of Idoneth Deepkin, it seems a bit thicker, but not much. 175 pages is my high estimation.
I hope that is just an artist's impression. I like that GW acknowledges these armies exist, but am wary they will only do the barest minimum they need to toss out old molds before forgetting about us for the next three years.
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1 minute ago, Raffonerd said:
Warscroll changes will be there. Is reported in the WhC post by the author of the book.
Whelp, then we'll have to see how much room is left for the factions.
We have 87 listings in aelves, disposessed and free peoples. Say we have 7 doubles and 20 units are scrapped/condensed, we'll have 60 left. At three per page, we're looking at 20 pages.
Then let's say 15 batallions for another 5 pages.
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44 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
I don't think "Battleline if"will be based on allegiances, but will be tied to your general like this:
Phoenix Guard: Battleline if General has the ANOINTED keyword
Dragon Blades: Battleline if General has the ORDER DRACONIS keyword
Greatswords/Demigryph Knights: Battleline if General has the FREE PEOPLES keyword
etc.This does give you some freedom, and matching the general to the city isn't that much of a bother.
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1 hour ago, dekay said:
I know reducing number of warscrolls is contrary to what GW is doing and i normally wouldn't anticipate them even cinsidering doing so.. however, here we are talking about battle tome consisting almost twice as many units as Stormcast (the faction that gets, as you mentioned, separate warscroll depending on wheather you prefer a hammer or a skirt on your basic soldiers). And if we were to get modern redesign of current scrolls, this number will only grow.
It's the 'more pages' thing that makes me think, actually. Like, where is the limit? Do we really get a tome twice as thick as others? I mean, I won't in any way *complain* if every single one of our units gets a proper redesigned warscroll, I just have a hard time believing we're really getting this.
Well, we have seen a side view of the tome, it seems thicker than Idoneth (which is 136), but not by that much. It has to serve as the battletome for 15 old factions, and still it spends pages on Stormcast and Kharadron. 150-175 pages would be my current estimate. Say 175, minus 5 for the pages you'd lose anyway at the front and back of a book, so 170.
That's 10 pages per faction if they only talk about factions, now let's say they readjust and halve the amount of factions, but also give some 10 pages to each of the cities (there were 10 before).
80 pages for cities, one with artwork, two with a description leaving 7 for rules. 10 more should at least be reserved for "build your own city".
70 for the newly condensed 7 factions, (Kharadron and Stormcast mentions would be folded in with the cities). I can't make a more positive estimation.
20 pages for warscrolls of units, if the warscrolls can be condensed from the current about 80 to 60, and 5 for warscrolls for battallions (15 batallions), this is generous, with 3 warscrolls per page and no loss. Also without fluff or picture.
We're now at 175 pages, so over the more generous amount considering the thickness of the book.
I wonder what Stormcast players would think if they received a 10 page battletome once every three years.
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16 minutes ago, Aginor said:
I would be happy to use all those rules more often, and thus encourage building more versatile lists that can cope with all of them.
But unfortunately the game is not balanced to do that. And that's especially true for tournaments IMHO.
In a story campaign that I run for/with my buddy I sometimes say stuff like "your scouts say there will be a lot of obstacles on the battlefield" and thus enable him to build his list for that.
But that's where the second problem comes into play: "one trick pony" armies. If you play Kharadron Overlords then some realm rules (those good against shooting) outright kill your list. You don't even have to play, you know you will lose.
Something that slows down armies will kill Ironjawz as they will be shot to pieces.
Realm rules working against magic will be really bad for Teentch but the Kharadron player will only laugh.
As Seraphon I have it good. I can mitigate those effects using summoning, I also have good unit variety to choose from. SCE will also be fine because they have a huge choice of units and even their shooty stuff isn't _that_ bad in melee.
But many armies will struggle with some of those rules. And that means that a roll for the battlefield's attributes might decide the match. Which isn't exactly fun gameplay.
And even if the realm rules are known beforehand: some armies will not be able to compete. Those players have to pick another army, allies (which is almost the same), or just don't go to the tournament.
Of course there are ways to mitigate those problems. But they won't work for every army either.
I would say that if you know the army beforehand, you can change allies and adjust army composition, it should be a lot more even.
Tournaments should make sure they cycle the types of realms, so you are neither screwed three rounds in a row, nor boosted that same amount of times.
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The issue I have with realm rules, is that my army can change its composition before it enters a realm.
Going to a place that almost disables shooting? Outriders stay home, militia might take up shields, and a few extra greatswords are exchanged. That would make sense for a general to do.
If we had a sideboard that allowed changing a few units, I would not mind them as much, but as it stands, the roll of a die changes a lot of the chances of an army.
Note that this is with Freeguild, who need to source magic, healing, artillery and much of the support from outside their faction, we don't have the option to prepare for multiple things at once. And this is not even one of the elven factions or devoted of Sigmar.
With a sideboard for different realms, and/or armies that are more complete (perchance with Cities of Sigmar?), I would not have an issue with it, as it stands, realm choice simply destroys some armies, while hardly limiting others.
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I am not qualified to answer, but BCR or other Ogors would fit low model, some stormhost of Stormcast would work, Everchosen can be extremely low model count, as could Troggoths.
What do you seek outside of what your current army can do?
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19 minutes ago, Infeston said:
Weren't Stormcast inspired by these models of the Blood Angels from Warhammer 40k?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Blood-Angels-The-Sanguinor-Exemplar-of-the-Host
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Blood-Angels-Commander-Dante
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Sanguinary-Guard
Inspired is one word. If another company had made them, GW lawyers would have had quite a good time explaining it was a copy.
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35 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:
Agreed on the "No More Stormcast" wagon. They have enough representation already.
Looks like we're getting Cavalry type models which are pretty exciting. And IDK or DoK warband would be fantastic for me as I'd love to have those as Warbands. But then we could also get a little crazier with some Daemon warbands showing some personality of individual Daemons.
I don't mind Stormcast in the extra warbands, I just do not want them in the base set.
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12 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:
Well, one thing that worth mentioning is that while some player dislike the idea of cities of sigmar style soup tomb and want to get their separate ones, there will be a problem if all of them get their separate one--its about the update cycle. Even GW keeps the updating speed of this year, it will takes three year to finish a cycle once the cities of sigmar get separated again and some new fractions come out. If GW slow down the updating speed, it might takes four year or more, then it will just go back to the what happens before the cities of sigmar tome come out, a lot people keeps complaining GW not updating their favorite fraction while waiting for a long time. Do you guys really want this?
We'll first have to see what a soup tome actually brings.
If it is interesting enough, I see no issue, but it's not that thick, and it needs to do 14 factions that have not received anything before this. That's going to be a tight fit, and then they also have stuff for Stormcast and Kharadron in it. Then again, typing up 5 batallion options, 5 general options, 5 ally options and 5 faction specific rules does not need to take more than three pages.
So, if the soup tome is only a halfhearted attempt to get a minimal amount of rules to a faction, and mainly tries to toss out old molds, more is needed. If it is fully capable of supporting the factions it is written for, we don't (for those factions, that is, and until the next version of AoS).
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49 minutes ago, mikethefish said:
Personally, I "main" Kharadron Overlords, so I will be certainly playing Tempest's Eye, at least at first.
Have some pretty extensive conversion plans. For my troops, I am going to use Necromunda Cawdor ganger bodies, combined with the heads, swords and shields from the State Troop set.
I think I'll use Dark Elf Cold Ones as the mounts for my Pistoliers. Try and give them more of an AoS feel, with a non-standard mount option.
I would use Greatsword bits if you have it, it is quite a bit more epic than the guard set. You would need to make some shields though, but I have found that half a Stormcast shoulderpiece is just as large as a smallish shield (and rerolling ones fits smallish shields). Find a Freeguild player, he or she is bound to have spare Greatsword bits (the amount of bits in it is bordering rediculousness).
My pistoleers/outriders are riding modified gryph-hound/chargers, matched to wood elf horse bodies. That's a lot of effort in cutting, but I wanted to make a heavy gryph theme. The front quarters of the gryph hounds are deceptively large, and minimal shortening of the hind legs is needed to make it even. I use Bretonnian Knights of the Realms and Glade Riders as riders, as they are a bit smaller than the outriders/pistoleers.
In effect, I'll have the following stuff:
- Karl Franz on griffin
- Demigryphs (with rear paws replaced by hooves (made from Bretonnian greathelms) to match the gryph chargers if I want to use them later)
- Quarter gryphs (the outriders/pistoleers)
- Gryph hounds (debating whether these will get hooves on rear paws as well for consistency)
and a lot of feathered hats.
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17 minutes ago, EMMachine said:
It would actually be nice if Phoenix Guard would be battleline in Phoenicium or Shadow Warriors in Tempest Eye. It would at least give those units a little more purpose instead of only being battleline in their subfaction.
Yeah, the "battleline if" should be extended for the new allegiances, it would allow for more varied builds. It need not be removed, just extended to include the cities they feature in.
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11 minutes ago, Dawnbringer said:
Would rather see more cool stuff than watch GW chase the none existant ideal of perfect balance within a game as complex as a wargame.
Or make a new mode "tournament play" where theres like 5 units per faction to choose from and their rules and stats are basically identical to each other and the people who want balance over everything can play their freeform chess, and everyone else can get on with whatever mode they choose. Maybe then we wont see expensive models swing from handy to useless overnight.
Handy to useless is internet-speak.
Having units cost a bit more isn't going to make them useless, it's just going to make them less desirable. If I have an army of Freeguild Guard and they lose their large units discount, I'd be annoyed, but they'll still hurt and tarpit enemies.
AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
Your leader might be the Franz, who then adopts his function as a surname. The last one had Ferdinand as a first name, this Franz happens to be named Karl