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Raptor_Jesues

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    7 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

    Just came here to say, that Blood Knights, despite some claims, were very strong in AOS 2.0, but in 3.0 they will be definetly in need of some extra points in their cost, especially if you consider how many more MSUs will be in 3.0. They just do so much for such a low price in an army, that can support and heal them very well.

    i feel like they are a very minor problem in the game compared to all the ****** that should be nerfed first like most shooting, op magic etc

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    46 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    The design decisions of the Gravelords book make a lot more sense in many places now.

    The old style of resurrection for a command point would be unworkable in AoS 3 where everyone has 3+ command points per turn. Weakening the healing capabilities of the army makes more sense when there are more default healing options, as well.

    A lot of the previously non-functional or underwhelming warscrolls got fixed by the update. VLoZD looked weaker at first, but looks super solid now. The Wight King ability now has a use and his function of making Grave Guard battleline is more valuable. Fell Bats have a role as a counter against Unleash Hell.

    I think the book design could still be a bit better. My complaint that the rules constantly set you up for disointment at first brush still stands. But on the other hand, Gravelords are probably the strongest Death army right now, and probably solidly in the upper third of armies power wise, so the bad design stings much less.

    black knights still suck though xD

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    1 hour ago, Aturox said:

    Anyone thought about a legion of blood bravery bomb list with the new horrorghast spell?

    Sounds fun with legion of blood general with special trait (Soul-crushing Contempt ) -1 + -2 by two units of skellies debuffing bravery and not being able to instapass battleshocks

    Or just play geminis and block comands including inspiring presense.

    Also you also add w3 to fleeing models

    yeah, as i said it does sound like a pretty cool combo

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    2 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

    Cogs are now 45 pts for the +1" to Charges. Might be worth it with the reduced point costs. Prismatic Palisade is now 40 pts and still blocks shooting, so that's nice, too. Ideas on how to colorize Prismatic Palisade to fit us? I have Cogs modified to be made of wood with the blueish things made bloody instead, but no idea on the Palisade. 

    e: Hmm, what about coloring as stones that come out from the ground and putting some corpses onto it as if they were pushed out from their graves when the stones rose? 

    i made a row of impaled corpses using the old zombies. 
    Anyway i think that the most stand out as good ES are the palisade as a usefull tool against shooting and the shards for being very annoying. Also the horrorghast could be very nice in LoB since it negates battleshock CAs and causes D3 more people to run away. Shackles are also very nice but a tad costly i feel

    Also on a side note we can now take radukar the wolf as a single choice, huzzah

    PS. AAAAUGH, my list is 5 points short of including a prismatic palisade, noooooooooo

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    I think "ignore rend -1" is nearly as good as straight +1 to saves, anyway. It seems like most things worth caring about when it comes to offense have at least rend -1.

    precisely. Shield grave guards are probably not scared of rend - units anyway

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    My understanding is that you can. The new rules say that a unit cannot issue or receive more than one command per phase. In the case of Radukar, he issues and receives the "Call to the Hunt" command. Others units still benefit from it, but there is nothing in the rules that prevents this from stacking with benefits from other command abilities.

    like damn. That is kinda of amazing. This should include mannfred's and neferata's right? Since they are bubbles i mean

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    I was thinking about my coven throne substitute (due to the throne not being able to spam its CA) in my kastelai army and i gave a look to radukar the beast. Mind you that i would like to field Prince V, a vengorian lord and spam bloodknights, so i started thinking about possible combos and i noticed that radukar actually fares really well in the army.
    He is a very good target for both the vengorian lord and Prince V CAs, his own CA is incredibily good and will buff bloodknights, V lord and prince V into the stars, not to mention he is rather mean in melee.
    But then i wondered: the CA rule says that a unit cannot be targeted by a CA but Radukar's is worded like it targets him instead of all the other units it buffs. Can i use all out attack on say a bloodknight unit along with call to the hunt since it looks like they target different units?
    I think i am going to field him either way but it would be cool if i could. Imma represent him with a conversion of the red duke on foot along with the dark knight :D

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    2 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

    How are you gonna build Kastelai now? Double Dragon? I think that the Ghost Mist-Spell gives us a really usable anti-shooting-tech (not that it's reliable, but at least it's there and doesn't cost points). The fact that we can apparently use one of those without a batallion makes us less reliant on Warlord, which I still think is tax-heavy in Kastelai. 

    I thought I'll either 

    - Prince V

    - VLoZD 

    - 30 Skeletons 

    - 10 Wolves 

    - 10 Wolves 

    - 5 Blood Knights 

    - 5 Blood Knights 

    - 5 Blood Knights 

    or

    The same, but 60 Zombies + Baby VL instead of the Skeletons and Wolves. Skeletons are pretty much self-sustaining with Rally & All Out Defense, now (but I know you prefer Wolves). 

     

    i am adamant on vhordrai, vengorian, 4x5 bloodknights and 10 wolves but i am having an hard time on the rest. I realy do not want infantry and i am a bit bored by vargheists so i will try on radukar i think

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    47 minutes ago, El Syf said:

    Props to GW for releasing the rules on download early. Riders of Ruin is officially go baby!

    shame on me for having only 20 bloodknights, should have taken more.

    ANYWAY, i spotted that now piling in is not towards the nearest model but towards the nearest UNIT. This is very juicy

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    Just now, Gery81 said:

    I just watched the GMG core book review, and he said that only hit and wound rolls are capped at +/-1, saves are not. He specifically mentioned 2+ save goblins.

    Luckily that is not true since save are capped at +1. They just do not have a malus roof since it would make rend useless

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    Not so fast! I was thinking the same initially, but after looking a bit close I going Shields vs. Great Blades is a real choice.

    My reasoning is this: If you are planning to buff your Grave Guard at all, then giving them +1 to saves should be a high priority, since they are so fragile otherwise. Since units can now only take one command ability buff per phase, that means if you give them All-Out Defense, they get no offensive CA buff. But a unit of GG with shields can take All-Out Attack instead. This makes their actual damage output very comparable:

    Save   Grave Guard Great Blade    Grave Guard Shields, +1 to hit
    2+ 6.67 6.48
    3+ 8.89 8.33
    4+ 11.11 10.19
    5+ 13.33 12.04
    6+ 15.56 13.89
    - 15.56 13.89

    Importantly, GG with shields still manage to cross the important damage threshold of 1 wound per model in combat at 4+, meaning that they will wipe units of equal size. If other offensive buffs are in play (Vyrkos +1 to wound, Radukar +1 attack, Belladamma double taps, Vanhel's), the difference between the offensive capabilities of the two units quickly become meaningless: They will both deal enough damage to kill basically anything.

    The difference is that Grave Guard with Shields will always have their saves buff, even if the opponent roars at them. And you will not have to use Mystic Shield or All-Out Defense on them, leaving those for other targets.

    The choice really depends on which buffs you think will be easiest to give them. My list is Vyrkos and brings Radukar, so I think going shields is the play. In another list, where you can't give your Grave Guard any damage buffs, Great Blades might be the way to go.

    Also worth noting, capping saves happens after all modifiers are applied. So any save bonus high than +1 effectively acts like -1 rend: If you apply rend -1 against a save mod of +2, you are still left with +1 to saves. This is weaker than a straight save increase, but worth considering.

    uh, that is actually very interesting. Nice spot sire

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    ...
    AoS 3 changes leave Gravelords? Overall, I think we can now clearly say that our book is an AoS 3 book, not an AoS 2 book. A lot of the little details that did not quite make sense before are now coming together. I believe Gravelords benefit from the majority of rules changes in AoS 3. And the general consensus was that they were not even that weak before!

    The big thing that remains to be seen is how well Gravelords handle shooting in the new edition. This was our weakness before (even in the old Vampire Counts days), and the new tome has very little anti-shooting tech in it. The new smaller playing field means we are potentially in range of shooting earlier and the new Unleash Hell command will definitely be a problem to overcome, rather than a tool to be exploited for us.

    But as far as melee horde armies go, Gravelords are probably looking as good as they could reasonably hope in AoS 3. The army still has some challenges to overcome: Generally low damage, low mobility on a lot of units and the weakness to shooting mentioned above. But probably no other army is as good as swamping the battlefield and grinding out a victory late game as Gravelords at the moment. I think the future looks good for our vampire overlords!

    great analysis, i agree with everything you said with a pair of buts:
    1- you forgot to mention that bloodknights are now S tier units due to retreat not being a normal move wich is dope
    2- while we do not have shields against shooting we can somewhat mitigate it. Necromancers have zombie screening, troops come back, Kastelai, LoN and varghiests can be off the field and come in at very scary angles, even behind the lines wich is fairly nice. We have some artifacts against shooting but i agree with you that they are nothing amazing. So not great but it is ok. Also while the smaller field means we get in range sooner it is true for the enemy as well.
    3- we actually have some respectable damage i would say, grave guards, bloodknights, dragon lords, radukar and prince V are all very nice damagers and our other troops can do nicely with some lovin.
     

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    bit of a bummer on the coven throne not being able to use its CA more than once in the hero phase. This, i am afraid, leaves it at the meh level. Probably gonna swap it for radukar or a tax VL to take another battalion i guess

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    lol, with a sanguine blur hero zombies can basically charge up to 15" in the opponent turn xD
    world woar z shananigans ensue. ALSO the CA text lowkey confirmed that a retreat is not a normal move in 3.0 so go bloodknights

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Raptor_Jesues

    1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

    You want ecerything to be in Battle Regiment, right?

    I think your heroes are too big for that. They need to be below 10 wounds to be sub-commanders. I also believe the core battalions will probably not give artefacts unless they grant "magnificent".

    not necessarily everything, i guess the vengorian lord and the throne stay out, still three drops though. As for the artifact we shall see, it would be a bit of a bummer but whatever i guess

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    aight lets try this:
     

    Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
    - Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
    Prince Vhordrai (455)
    - Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

    - General
    Vengorian Lord (280)
    -Lore of Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

    -General Rousing commander
    -Fragment of the Keep
    Coven Throne (310)
    - Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale

    -Banner of the Blood Keep

    5 xBloodknights (195)
    5 xBloodknights (195)

    5 xBloodknights (195)
    5 xBloodknights (195)
    10 x Dire Wolves (135)

    Total: 1960 / 2000

    All of this assuming that core battalions give you an extra artifact, otherwhise remove the flag from the throne. The knights and the heroes should all go in the one drop battalion

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    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

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    Posted

    15 minutes ago, El Syf said:

    So other than very limited access to high rend (which is something not many other people seem to value) we do have a great army for 3.0.

    Also can anyone who has put the coven throne together some me from wasting money and tell how easy it would be to get rid of the vampires currently on it and replace with the new vampire lord stepping down or Prince Duvalle with his foot on the cauldron? I’m probably looking at paying someone to do it properly but just wondered on the feasibility. :)

    very easy actually and i did more or less the same thing with my blood dragons foot vampires (they are not going to be used by themselves so i put them on the throne). If the foot is too low a bit of greenstuff will fix it

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