BaylorCorvette

May 13, 2021

5 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Can someone explain the skeleton rule? What does 'they come back on 4+ when selected to fight' mean? Anything that has died gets to roll a 4+ or you roll a single 4+ and all the dead ones come back?

Cheers.

Things that died IN THAT PHASE. So it basically doesn't work if they are selected to fight before they have taken any sort of casualties in that phase. So no Skeletons are more of a defensive unit. Have them sit on an objective and (hopefully) regenerate.

May 13, 2021

So if you wanted you could have a 2+ unrendable VLoZD in Legion of Blood. Soulbound Garments Artefact plus Neferatas spell and it could be minus 2 to hit in melee with Aura of Dark Majesty and Neferatas CA.

May 13, 2021

4 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

well, she is 3+ save now so it is a bit better. Also the CA says roughly "untill your next hero phase subtract 1 from rolls to hit from enemy melee weapons that have as a target soulblight gravelords units within 12" of this model".
This plus her spell and how durable skellies are tell me that LoB is the defensive faction

I agree with this translation.

Between Mannfred and Neferata I think I prefer Mannfred more but it is close, they each have their role depending on what you're trying to do. I'm glad GW gave them a 3+ armor save. Only thing they needed was a couple more wounds but it's all good.

May 13, 2021

2 minutes ago, NicholasFlamelGames said:

Does anyone who speaks Spanish here want to translate the Neferata and Skeletons warscrolls for everyone? 😛 PM me and I'll send the photos.

I mean when the Italian warscrolls were leaked for Slaanesh I just Google translated them and it worked well. If you want, you can send it to me and I'll start doing that.

*EDIT*

nvm just found her and skeletons in Spanish on 4chan

May 13, 2021

Shame prince Vhordrai does not have the Vampire Lord keyword so he can be used in the Red Banqueters

May 13, 2021

2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Someone help me because I always mess this up. What buffs do or do not have an effect on the mounts?

- Spells do
- Command abilities... don't?
- Relics don't
- Do Command Traits? Do faction abilities?

Unless otherwise stated, everything will modify both mount and rider attack profile except Command Traits & Artefacts. So yes Spells, Command Abilities and Faction Abilities DO.

May 13, 2021

4 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

What do you think about something like that:

KASTELEI

Prince V

Radukar

Vengorian Lord

4x 5 Bloodknights

A bit light on bodies IMO. From a fluffy fun list it's ace.

May 13, 2021

5 minutes ago, Boar said:

It made me look at their warscrolls. Kritza has funny ability that if he is slain at end of movement phase he is re-setup on 4+ 9" away from enemy. It's not restricted to one res either.

It is similar to Skarr Bloodwraths ability from Blades of Khorne. Kinda cool and I like it.

May 13, 2021

7 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

i ran out of reactions so i wish to say that i compleatly agree with you and i wish to be your squire.

We ride!

Just to give y'all a little more background of where my mentality is coming from, I pretty much only played Legion of Blood and Blades of Khorne for the last two years (since I started playing AoS). At start of COVID I made a Vampire themed Khorne Army using a lot of Slaves to Darkness models, it was what I called "my fluffy competitive list." People routinely said the units I had and how I built it while cool, wasn't super competitive. Coming out of lockdown I did a two day tournament a couple months ago and finished 6th overall and just missed out on top Chaos Faction. Last weekend I did a one day tournament and went 3-0 with the same list, one of the opponents was Change Host which I beat. Vince Venturella (warhammerweekly) had a really good video several weeks ago with a lot of nice stats, it basically showed that a good player can take just about any book and be good with it.

The point I'm trying to make here is even if we don't have the Lumineth, KO, Tzeentch or DoK book doesn't mean we cannot be competitive. It just means we have to work harder and smarter, know what your list is good at and what it isn't good at, etc. I MUCH rather take a fat middle book and surprise people with it then take an S Tier book and then to no surprise play good with that.

Everyone. Take. A. Breath.

May 13, 2021

Wow, some of y'all think our book is like Beast of Chaos. I pretty much only play in tournaments and can tell you right now that this book has some play. Yes certain things got nerfted but other things got buffed. Soulblight Gravelords isn't S Tier, probably fat middle which is completely OK and I'm find with that. I get the desire to want to play Soulblight Gravelords like the old LoN book of just drowning your opponent in models that keep coming back, but honestly (in my opinion) that was a super boring way to play. Before you claim this is a trash book and isn't competitive just wait to play it. I personally have a game lined up with a buddy early next week now that we have the rules leaked I can play Gravelords, then the second Saturday in June I'll be taking Gravelords to a tournament. As of right now and having seen like 90% of the book, I am confident that this book can win and do decently well in tournaments, but it is going to take work to do so which is what I prefer.

Also, one last closing thought. Based on a lot of the rules and way things are written it is obvious that there are some things that are going to change in 3.0.

May 12, 2021

This poor horse has been to badly beaten that I don't even think the necromantic powers from the Gravelords could bring it back.

Annnnnnyways, I think the biggest things I want to see (aside from the whole book) at this point is the warscroll of Lauka Vai (and the generic version), the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon and the spell lore. It would appear that GW is more so tweaking the LoN stuff then coming up with brand new things, so I expect the VLoZD to only minorly get updated along with the spell lore.

May 12, 2021

6 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going?

Technically the Mannfred model exists, however I don't see it on GW site anymore.

But perhaps GW expects us to kitbash a mounted vampire lord from the Blood Knight box?

What do you think?

I'm concerned that the winged version and the mounted version may be gone. I hope I'm wrong, because I would like a minor support Hero to support some Blood Knights. Would be a shame if the only mounted option was a Wight King (other than a VLoZD). The other option that would be amazing is if the unit leader for Blood Knights could issue command abilities and Deathly Minions aura (like OBR Hekatos). There may be an allegiance ability or general Gravelords ability that allows Kastellan's to do this.

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

their official rules will almost certainly require you to buy them as a batch set, though I expect they'll function as four separate heroes on the table.

That said, I don't think anyone will stop you from running a couple of them as generic vampire lords. No one gets mad, or even notices, if you swap out some thorns of the briar queen for generic chainrasps, or grymwatch for regular crypt ghoul champs and courtiers, or sepuchral guard for regular skeletons.

I 100% expect them to have to be taken all together but act independently. My original plan was to use these as Vamp Lords, however the new Vamp Lord on foot appears to be on a 40mm base as opposed to 32, which is what the warband is on.

May 12, 2021

Would love to see Prince Vhordai's command ability to change from picking a Hero to fight in the Hero Phase to picking a Kastelai Vampire unit to fight in the Hero phase. Gives more options and further strengthens Blood Knights in a Kastelai army.

May 12, 2021

6 minutes ago, NicholasFlamelGames said:

Neferata is definitely my Mortarch of choice and I was hoping for some strong rules for her and a bit of a fools hope for Blood Knight battleline (I knew it wasn't happening). I have to say after getting into some recent lore and listening to her recent audiobook Neferata: The Dominion of Bones, she ends up resurrecting a loyal servant to be a Black Knight and it was really cool to see the character develop for this skelly boi. After listening to the audiobook I can definitely see Black Knights being batteline in her force.

Loved that book! If you read it, then having Black Knights as Battleline isn't too weird for her.

May 12, 2021

3 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

Their aren’t. All armies have either some ranged magic output, some shooting, ability to project power, striking out of combat sequence ie before teleports, or ways to stop X unit doing Y.
So, I too am not being confrontational, but there are lots of ways to shut down rules such as this. But sure, there will also be lots of times when he is next to impossible to kill BUT he is one model and last time I checked they didn’t tend to win game’s singlehandedly ——- Archaon aside.

Yeah, exactly. Unless Mannfred just has some crazy spell that dishes out huge damage, then he isn't even going to be dealing much damage if he never engages in the combat phase. What this ability does is allow Mannfred to choose what he engages. But again, there are very few models that I say "I NEED to make sure I kill them or else I cannot win/have a chance of winning."

May 12, 2021

2 minutes ago, Grailstorm said:

How can anyone possibly like this rule on Mannfred. It’s the most game breaking rule I’ve ever seen.

Clearly you do not play in competitive tournaments. This is easily countered by:

-Strong Magic / Prayers

-Shooting

-Damage that happens in the charge phase (impact hits, etc)

-Things that can pile in 6"

In addition, competitive play isn't about killing things, it is about scoring more Victory Points than your opponent. Mannfred more than likely still only counts as 1 model for objectives. Furthermore you can zone out his teleporting so that he doesn't get placed where you don't want him. If his combat profile is like it is currently then he isn't even that huge of a threat where you HAVE to kill him.

Now if your objective is to just kill things, then OK I guess this sucks but that is rarely the case in competitive play. In Places of Arcane Power where only Heroes score VPs then this ability is useless for him.

May 12, 2021

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

It certainly implies we'll be seeing a lot of different builds from different subfactions and not just a single spammed list that defines the entire faction. That said, I don't want to start counting unhatched chickens. it's still very early, and most of the book is unknown. Plenty of room for GW to ****** it up one way or the other.

But yeah, so far, despite my handful of complaints and words of caution here and there, I'm very much liking what I'm seeing overall.

I'm still crossing my fingers SO HARD for that Nagashii symbol to represent a real and viable faction in its own right, not just 'Soulblight Gravelords but with no subfaction bonus so they're flat worse than any of the other options' or 'grand alliance death reprinted without changes yet again'.

Very true, even if things look amazing if GW calculates points like they did with the new Slaanesh book then we're f*cked lol.

May 12, 2021

I do find it funny the polarizing takes people have on the various Bloodlines / information that has been released thus far. I've seen lots of love and hate for just about everything and honestly I think that is good. I have yet to see something from Gravelords that everyone absolutely is in love with or absolutely hates. That means it has a strong appeal to a set of people. If everyone unilaterally hated / loved something then it would be because GW made compromises and settled with a conservative approach rather than pushing the design (both visually and through rules/warscrolls). All of this is great.

May 12, 2021

4 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Battleline Terrorgheists/Zombie Dragons is fine on it's own, but I reeeeally hope it's not the main gimmick for Avengorii.

I'm coming over from FEC, I didn't play battleline dragons there either.

Unless they really boost the units it could be a bit of a miss.

Agreed. The larger problem is IF Avengorii doesn't get some other good / unique stuff then they will just be overshadowed by Monster Mash in FeC being able to more reliably spike damage.

May 12, 2021

I love that they are giving each Bloodline / Dynasty unique battleline choices.

Everyone gets Skeletons & Zombies

-Legion of Night: Vargheists

-Legion of Blood: Black Knights

-Kastelai: Blood Knights

-Avengorii: Zombie Dragons & Terrorgheists

-Vyrkos: ??? I'm assuming we all get Dire Wolves as Battleline still. They may not get a special battleline but instead get multiple Generals.

May 12, 2021

9 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Mannfreds bloodline looks very weak to me compared to Kastelai Bloodline. Vargheist and Mannfred are both Vampires so why run this Bloodline over Kastelei? I don’t understand. Even if you play Mannfred and Vargheist in Kastelai they look stronger to me.

Well, we don't know if they are going to carry over that dumb rule that if you play a certain Legion / Bloodline then you have to run their Mortarch / Leader if you want to run one of the Mortarch / Leaders from another Bloodline as well. I.E. It's possible if we want to run Mannfred in Kastelai then we also have to run Prince V and he has to be our General. I hope they don't bring that rule into this book but seeing how this is pretty much LoN 2.0 I wouldn't be shocked. I would MUCH prefer the new rule to be that the Mortarch / Leader gets to count as the General in their own Bloodline in addition to the actual General. ALSO, I wouldn't be shocked if each Mortarch / Leader came with their Bloodline's keyword on their warscroll meaning they couldn't receive the keyword of another Bloodline, similar to Katakros and how he has the Mortis Praetorians keyword.

Again, we haven't seen the full set of rules for the Bloodlines yet, there is likely more to Legion of Night, but purely based on the community articles I agree that Kastelai seems better. Which is fine because that's what I was going to play anyways 😃

Also based on the end of that article, looks like we get to hear about Neferata / Legion of Blood tomorrow.

May 12, 2021

For the Riders of Ruin, I think we will see a change in 3.0 about what is considered a normal move OR we will see an errata/faq, the intent was obviously to charge later in the turn.

For the Legion of Night, it's basically the same as before with a few minor changes. I do like Mannfreds POOF from combat ability though, lol.

May 11, 2021

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

Currently depends on your list and subfaction. In the new book, it depends on the rules for VLoZD, Vhordrai, and the rest of the faction, which we won't know till a week from saturday. Or more likely whenever the full rules leak some time middle of next week.

We should know everything this Saturday when GMG reads the rules word for word 😃

May 11, 2021

5 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

oh youre right he will get a new warscroll. Can a named char like Vhordrai take a battle trait? i know you cant take an artefact.

Named characters cannot take a command trait nor an artefact.

In Legions of Nagash I personally preferred a VLoZD over Vhordrai, especially in Legion of Blood where strangely Vhordrai didn't have the necessary keyword to get more attacks like the normal VLoZD and Blood Knights. I suspect when they update the warscrolls, Vhordrai will have the appropriate keywords. I assume he either provides buffs in the Kastelai Dynasty or something, since he is their leader. However I have always preferred the non named Heroes in AoS due to the fact that I can give them Command Traits and Artefacts, thus effectively creating my own named character.

One thing I've been thinking about, I wonder if the leaders of each Bloodline (Mannfred, Neferata, Vhordrai, etc) will be exclusive to their own Bloodline, like they ONLY have their Bloodline keyword, similar to Katakros. I'd be OK with that. What I hope GW does NOT do is like in the current Legions of Sacrement, Night and Blood, you cannot take a leader of another Legion / Bloodline unless you ALSO take the leader of the Bloodline you're using. So for instance I hope we can use Mannfred in Kastelai without Vhordrai, but maybe Mannfred does not get the Kastelai Dynasty keyword.

May 11, 2021

2 minutes ago, Boar said:

Don't they also have artifacts and command traits on those? If so maybe some of that actually

Good question. Only warscroll cards I have that come with tokens was Blades of Khorne and I bought it used and the person didn't include those. So I actually have no idea what GW includes in those tokens.

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