Juicy
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Posts posted by Juicy
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16 hours ago, Marcvs said:
The main problem I see in running the Stormkeep without the patrol battalion or skyborne slayers is that you are stuck with liberators moving 5" and losing their bonuses if they do so. I don't think SCE magic can project sufficient power to have the enemy come at you: your opponent might just leave you sitting behind the lines of liberators and score points.
Slightly related, to further my frustration with the treatment of Broken Realms SCE stuff I just watched another episode of Warhammer Weekly saying that changes are fine cause liberators needed a boost, but the patrol battalion should only be kept in the narrative version (Ven Brecht's). Which is like: you can have better liberators, as long as they can't actually do anything in battle
yeah couldnt agree more. I feel this sce book has so much potential that isnt worked out pretty well. When the book first came out in 2018 i instant saw that everything from the warrior chamber was dead. So i started to play skyborne slayers with the lord celestant with a sword of judgement. Had fun times won some tournaments etc. Now im looking at other stuff but nothing in the book seems to work. Even these new battalions dont work in my local meta.
There are some idea's that look cool for narrative like the list i put up above. But after thinking it trough it just cannot hold up to any really competative. I dont want to get evolved into starcast or the 1 drop shooting list.
It fustrates me aswell that internet talks about the patrol battalion being so strong while i cannot win a single game with it yet. Did a 60 liberator double patrol battalion yesterday against the new troll battalions. Just couldnt hold up where trolls killing 9/15 liberators a combat fase while the liberators where at 2+ reroll 1. 5 objectives to hold and game was over for me at turn 3 with him having 2 turns to score left. Battleshock is just insane without the skyborne slayer battleshock immume. At this moment i find it hard to do anything els then skyborne slayers if i want to play liberators.
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Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers (Stormkeep)
Leaders
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Artefact: Hammers of Aurgury
Lord-Arcanum (150)
- Scrolls of Power (Artefact): Scroll of Unravelling
- Spell: Lightning Blast
Lord-Exorcist (90)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Knight-Incantor (120)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (120)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Battlemage (110)
- General-staunch defender
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Battleline
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
15 x Liberators (270)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 3x Grandhammers
10 x Liberators (180)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
Battalions
Grand Convocation (130)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
Any one tryed something like this? With the stormkeep they idea is to build walls on objectives and nuke mortals with the wizards.
What you guys think. Burn it to the ground if you like. Im doing some random stuff here. -
Nice! good stuff i like it! How did you feel about the 20 protectors? Is 1 hammer unit enough?
Did u play the 30 liberators with the stormkeep?
How did u feel about only taking 1 hero?Cheers mate! good to see some skyborne slayer love.
Im trying a lot of stormkeep patrol games but so far lost al 6 games hard. Like scoring early but get overrun around turn 3 and losing hard then. -
5 minutes ago, xking said:
Who here like Sormcast lore?
i love it. Highlights are the Hamilcar bear eater stuff
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6 hours ago, Thiagoma said:
I see Sigvald and Chaos Warriors redone and it makes me more angry with GW about the ****** that is Lumineth.
Dark Elves got to keep their models and now new lore going and High Elves got squatted and replaced by freaking garbage cows.
Look at this new models! People are excited, people are happy! Sigvald is not wearing a @#%¨& racoon hat! Chaos Warriors are not half fish!
It is just stuff people love redone with modern tecnology!
If they were going to take a ****** at High Elves they could have had the courtesy of keeping the old subfactions in CoS!
/rant off
men i love the way GW is doing these non tolken style stuff. I feel with al these whfb years of the same stuff with a newer look got super boring after a while.
im playing from 5th edition and im super glad GW is going outside the normal bounderies for stuff. I love the cows and the lumineth look. I would be a bit dissapointed if GW did just regular high aelves who are snobs with the same old stuff like we had a million times before. I hope when tyrion comes he doenst come with dragons and another basic stuff i want stuff that i couldnt think of myself and fits the mortal realms. Ey this is coming from a guy who played bretonnia's for all his pre AOS life
For me kharadron overlords, idoneth deepkin and even this take on slaanesh is something i like. I can understand that people dont like these faces but i love it for the psychic wierd stuff it is. Its creative and fits the name of the models. Somethings ugly is a good thing.
Just a feeling but something people just need to learn to let go of some old stuff and go with the new flow of things and think a bit outside of there own box. Took me 2 years to get used to stormcast and had to bury my whfb love. But once you let go of the old stuff you learn there is place for newer vibes and views of models we know for years.
I hope i make sense
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2 minutes ago, Nizrah said:
I don't know what you guys expected X D
haha, i expected my opponent to leave his thirsters at home and come with something creative. He had zero knowlegde of my list before hand and thought i would come at him with skyborne slayers or a gav bomb
I would love for some smarter minds them me try to take this new battalion and see how it goes:D
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1 minute ago, schwabbele said:
Strange, I thought that’s an auto win ?
thanks for the write up highly appreciated.
No worries i hope we can help one another even tho my english is a bit bad at times
i think we can use all the imput so far-
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Allegiance: Khorne - Slaughterhost: Flayed (Host of Chaos)
LEADERS
Bloodsecrator (120) - General - Command Trait: Vessel of Butchery
Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh Bloodstoker (80)
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170) - Artefact: Gorecleaver
Aspiring Deathbringer (80) - Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer - Artefact: The Slaughterhelm
UNITS
10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes
5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Cursed Lance
3 x Varanguard (280) - 3 x Fellspears 5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist
BEHEMOTHS
Chaos Warshrine (170) - Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
BATTALIONS Gore Pilgrims (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Bleeding Icon (40)
Not a standard list but its a list he tryes to work around the meta. Its a strong player.
1 Prayer was in range did a lot of mortals and his varanguard made a 10 inch charge around my liberators and came in the back to finish him of. Couldnt screen him well enough cause i needed to net most of his army. Sounds pretty stupid when i write it but it was hard to avoid. We talked about putting him farther away so none of the prayers would hard him turn 1. But then i couldnt deploy the liberators close enough to fight for the objective. So it was a bit of a gamble. Deployed like this i could delete his battle line units. We played Better part of valour.
I manage to tag 1 unit of knights so they couldnt charge. -
Just now, Overread said:
I agree. I can see how its not for everyone, but I can see exactly what they were going for and they got it. They've got that pulled skin look that you might see off Hellraiser Cenobites.
Plus with the design of the duel kit if you don't like them you can easily put the helmets on them. Best of both worlds. I'm not the biggest fan of the exposed heads, but I'll wait and see how they look in person. I'm certainly using the face-mask one.
its not. Because deamons and mortals got a whole differant game plan. You see it within forces of chaos a lot. Mixed forces are a thing but pure forces aswel and with slaanesh mortals finely dropping we got another army. Its differant from another Nurgle/khorne or tzeentch expension because slaanesh always had just deamons.
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1 minute ago, Doko said:
A shame see how dispossesed were deleted the 50% of the units,our heroes are missing and we never gonna get a new unit while daemons get non stop reease after release even more units than the posterboys(stormcast)
Also other armys old heroes are missing or recreated as clowns in case of teclis but daemons got one old hero back with almost 100% the same visual
u cannot complain to slaanesh mortals... they never got anything in there whole life...
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So ive played a game today against my regular tournament opponent. After the game we talked a lot about the patrol battalion and the current meta we fase and how this list is going to work with the 2020 senario's and secondary objectives.
Stuff is super hard to be honest.
If you want to take the first turn you have to lower your drops. As it seems now we can do that by going double patrol battalion or the wardens battalion.
This leaves you on a 2 or 3 drop list. So that is enough to go first in most matches. You want to go first to be able to buff up your liberators.
The problem i had today is putting 30 liberators at 4 inch with astral templars and i failed the translocation prayer to teleport my lord castellant in for that extra +1 save. The result is that my 3+ reroll 1 horde of 30 liberators have to face a lot of points/stuff from the enemy and a potential double turn. I tryed to work with terrain and put 6 grandhammer in front and the horde of 30 behind it. For the other redeemer units i had 10 xbow judicators. It all barely fit into the wholly within 12 inch bubble from the lord veritant.
Failing the translocation prayer is double trouble because now i only have 1 hero close by to auto pass battleshock. So my opponent did what any smart person would do. Focus every thing he had on forcing bravery checks on these 30 liberators. He killed my (6w)hero with some mortal wound stuff and then procied to kill a few liberators. He did with a lot of attacks manage to kill 19. And i was making pretty good save rolls but on a 3+ save rend -1/-2 is still a problem and you are going to fail some. With battleshock i lost another 7 dudes so that is 25 down turn 1. I dont think killing 25 liberators turn 1 is a problem for most competative armies these days. We talked about it and the lantern buff would have saved a lot but then still it would save like 5 liberators. They wont going to win the game from that point.
Another thing that is hard is the low amount of units. This is a problem with the new battleplans cause a lot of these plans have restrictions like scoring with battleline, heroes, behemoths and have a good amount of objectives on them. 4/5/6. These plans are hard when your main army is 2x30 liberators and some judicators. I feel i didnt had enough units to cover most objectives without screening thin. And for secondary objectives stuff gets harder. The list has more bad battleplans and secondy objective stuff then stuff we can easy do.
Tomorrow another game.
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Astral Templars (Stormkeep)LEADERS Lord-Celestant (100)
Lord-Castellant (120) - Artefact: Godbeast Plate
Lord-Relictor (100) - Artefact: Armor of Silvered Sigmarite - Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Veritant (110) - General - Mystic Light (Artefact): Shriving Light - Prayer: Divine Light
UNITS 30 x Liberators (480) - Warhammer & Shield - 6 x Grandhammers
10 x Judicators (280) - Boltstorm Crossbows - 2 x Thunderbolt Crossbows
20 x Liberators (360) - Warhammers - 4 x Grandhammers
6 x Gryph-Hounds (120)
BATTALIONS Wardens of the Stormkeep (140) Stormkeep Patrol (130)
COMMAND POINTS Extra Command Point (50) (going to lose this for the triumph next round)
2000/2000
Edit: some other stuff to think about is the amount of points i spend to do this patrol trick.
100 points wasted on a lord celestant on foot..
140 points battalion wardens of the stormkeep to lower the drops.
120 gryphounds who dont do anything but tag objectives and screen. Its usefull but there is a reason this unit doenst see play.
50 points over.
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Just now, jeremym said:
Its 120 wounds on 3+ rr1. Put that into 90% of most armies out there and youre gonna hold them in position for 3 turns. minimum. before they can start to break away and start scoring objectives. Some armies will just never be able to break through.
not in my local meta.. Khorne, KO, Tzeentch, Obr, Lizardmen and Mawtribes. They al got enough tricks to deal with 3+ rr 1 libbies. Like i said ive used a 30 block liberators on a 3+ rerol 1 battleshock immume many times before and these guys dont really care.
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4 hours ago, Mark Williams said:
Some of you are overestimating liberators. The game has changed quite a bit in the last few years, and high armour saves aren’t as strong as they used to be. The same units that people have to take in order to deal with other armies will also deal with the libs too. Don’t get me wrong though, it’s better than nothing.
this... I get a lot of talk in my local groups about the 60 liberator bomb and i know i can do some games today to test it out. But i feel a lot of people think its really strong to put al those liberators at your front door. People think you can buff them to a 2+ or even a 1+ with staunch but never checked actual gameplay..
staunch is wholly within 9 inch so thats kind of out for most of the time sinds we arent doing whfb blocks anymore.
lantern is hard so i took a relictor to gamble the 3+ translocation prayer. If it works i can park 1 unit of 30 liberators in front of anything i want. I played 30 liberators before with skyborne slayers and they where good 4 years ago but these days they got deleted pretty fast in competative play.
Lord castellant dies to 6 mortal wounds. There are a lot of people i play who can do that turn 1/2.
What makes this good is that we can zone the board and score in the early game. This tactic ive used a lot with the skyborne slayers and it won me games against people who hardly play skyborne slayers but every player i play on a regular base just knows what to do and screens so well that my alpha wont work and then he goes around it. It never felt like auto win with skyborne slayers and i cannot immagine it feels auto win with the patrol battalion.
What i like about it is that liberators are going to get some more games in with bigger groups then 5.
i also think that a lot of people mistake this for the old vanguard wing and auto claim its bonkers and broken.-
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38 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
Except you put forth almost no valid point. You mostly make assumptions about how you could counter, too bad you won't build your army to counter only this build in a tournament. Even your "counters" are pretty weak tbh. You assume taht you will get a spell cast or that you will do this and that which is mostly based on chance. The charging libs are not based on chance, they just will do what they do which is super-opressive.
Even if you mitigate the initial charge that is meant to hold you up the SCE player has still another 1000 points waiting to react to your so calle counters.i feel its mechanics are oppressive but its no where near vanguard wing where liberators could be buffed to intens hights. Like come on we talking about liberators who are one of the worst units in game. They get no killing done and cannot do even 20 wounds in the full game these days. By just tanking and sitting on objectives with 40mm base its a pretty hard thing to pull of.
Most of our heroes are probly dead turn 2/3 in competative game. And liberators holding up the midfield like a screen. But they are still on a 3+ save cause the lord castellant cannot reach them to buff them. Yes its a lot of wounds but there is a lot of stuff out there doing crazy damage. And its 2 units holding 2/3 objectives max. The rest of the board is empty.
this sounds better on paper im 100% sure of it. But ill ques ill see it tomorrow when i play it.-
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9 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
That is 8 Mortal wounds, isn't it? Only 72 to go then
Can't you add Gavriel to any Stormhost, yet he does not benefit from the Stormhost rule?this thirster did 43 mortals the last time i faced him.. double pile in with some lucky sixes. is not even that hard to just demolish units., as i have no ranged treat with 70 libs to kill it.
gav nope he can only be taking in hammers-
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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:
You shove 80+ wounds with at least a 3+ save and rerollable 1s straight Into the enemy formation, you bubble wrap almost an entire army while clubbing them with 3+, 3+,-,1 attacks. Meanwhile your second battalion controls the entire board and scores points. Combine that with Gabriel sureheart that increases your charge range by +3 for every CP spent and or The +6 inch pregame move of a Stormhost and you‘re DEEP inside the enemy‘s formation. Luckily there‘s no battalion that makes you swim in CP.
By the time the enemy has managed to break free of your Liberators the game is already lost.
Most armies can‘t handle that at all and there is nothing your opponent can do to stop it except trying to get the first turn, which is hard since the SCE Army will have 2-3 Drops.
Comparison:
an average AoS Army has about 120-125 wounds.
U now confuse 2 stormhosts together. Gav is from hammers and the +6 inch pregame move is from astral templars. I agree it sounds good on paper but with mortal wounds al over the place i feel there are a lot of armies that destroy this list pretty easy and score all your points back from turn 3+. Immagine the field day khorne thirster players have if you shove al those liberators in there face.. My regular buddy would have a smile for years.
edit: im playing a list like this on saterday against a khorne list so i can see how it goes.
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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
No tournament I ever went to had an issue with „all my liberators with swords actually have hammers“.
for real? thats nice to hear. I had some trouble in the past with tournaments dont allow weapon swaps. Like judicators and paladins. But i can understand that with liberators it isnt as bad as its just the roll thats a bit differant.
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Im trying to make a strong list with the patrol battalion but so far i found it hard to keep the drops low. I can do a lot of 3 drops but never a 2 drop list. I feel if you want to go patrol.. you want your drops as low as you can get. I dont have 70 liberators ready but i got 30.
did any one play a game with this battalion already? -
27 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
Just play them as counts as...This is not 40K wysiwyg
You cant bring them to a tournament then.. its kind of sad
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31 minutes ago, Marcvs said:
So I am seeing a lot of kneejerk reactions to the new rules for SCE, and the idea of blocks of liberators blocking people in their deployment through the patrol battalion. This seems... excessive? While I don't deny that the new rules are good (I am painting some dusty liberators right now), the only difference with what you could *already* do is the shield of civilisation. What I mean is: you could already drop 2x30 liberators 5" from the opponent with Slayers or Gav Bomb 30 of them, which is in fact more flexible than the patrol battalion. Does the +1 to save (cause even with +1 to hit the damage is lackluster for the investment) justify these reactions? Am I missing something?
i feel the same.. going to testplay some stuff this weekend but i cannot see myself winning on just liberators blocking stuff against most competative dudes i play. It seems a bit better on paper then when you have to play the game.
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honestly i dont want another chamber. I want our sce dudes to be more points per unit and better. I feel like this should be a high stats elite army and its turning into an army where i can field 60 liberators into an stormkeep. This isnt feeling like the super elite though to kill army that works in synergie to beat overwelming odds.
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6 minutes ago, jhamslam said:
woops i meant celestant
I feel bad for our lord celestant. Damn this guy should be a lot better then a freeguild general. But he is not. Would love him to be 200 points with a good warscroll.
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16 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:
this is in the book, they have a dev note on the rule: COS Generals cannot command Stormcast units. rip the pipe dream
We kind of knew this part already but this doesnt say it cannot be the general and get command traits like that. It just avoid irondrake shooting twice on anvils of the heldenhammer etc etc
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2 hours ago, The World Tree said:
Lord Castellant at 90 is crazy!
For me, aggressive pushes on Paladin units.
90 is a joke. I feel the lord castellant is fine for 120 to be honest.
Prosecutors really need to drop points or a new warscroll. A new warscroll would be best because this unit is a 5 year long joke. doenst see any play apart from narrative. All paladin units can use some love aswell. Just talking about this makes me want an updated book with new combo's. I feel like most of the battalions in our book are useless or a joke.. atleast way to high prices for what it brings to the table. Would love vanguard wing to be powerfull without it being broken. Its so cool to have a big chunk of prosecutors supporting or teleporting judicators and liberators over the field and buff them to be able to handle stuff.
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Skyborne Slayers - The Thread
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted · Edited by Juicy
nice style!
The rule on 6 is indeed terrible. I always explain them to my opponent as monster slayer units. But i never tell the part that they hardly killing any monster out there with the glaves. This design is terrible for monster slaying. To many checks to pass.
Same with decimators.. Yeah they get loads of attacks but most of the time they fail to kill even a lot of horde dudes and get destroyed after. I wish they got damage 2 so they can finely hit like the blender they should be. These guys even in units of 10 hardly get anything done.