Caspeur
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Posts posted by Caspeur
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21 hours ago, MattyP said:
list varies. tried demon heavy, then mixed demon/mortals, then tzaangor heavy. have played changehost 3 times. have regularly played against skaven, seraphon, FEC, khorne, nurgle, fyreslayers.
Don't give up yet, man! To be fair, in my opinion Tzeentch is one of the hardest armies to play. Everything dies quickly and everything's expensive, and having a double turn against you at the wrong time is worse for you than any other army out there, because you can't survive that extra punch.
I'm relatively new to the hobby, and quite bad still. I started with Tzeentch so I could play both 40K and AoS, and I kept losing too.
I branched out to Thousand Sons on 40K (Mixed with my Daemons) and Flesh eater courts on AoS, and I've gotta say, it IS an army wide problem, not just you. At least right now it is. The difference is HUGE. At first, every unit I lost was a huge deal, but with these armies I only have to be cautious with around 3 units. That's not the case for Tzeentch at all.
There's some things that I learned to do though whenever I play Tzeentch:
- The day before the battle, I quickly look up the most used warscrolls of the enemy's army. This is key to any battle, but when playing Tzeentch it's essential. Know what your enemy might do at all times, as if you're playing chess
- Unless I'm running a beefy list (With 30x Tzaangors and 30x Chaos Warriors), I always tend to have just one or two drops (Or at least, less than my enemy). This way I can go second, which is huge for Tzeentch
- When I go second, I almost never take double turn, unless I'm sure that I'll be delivering a finishing blow. Whenever you take the turn, you will get it back.
- If your list doesn't include any batallions, you'll probably finish deploying last. If this is the case, you'll most likely get first turn because the opponents will think that it'll wreck your hero phase. If this is the case, make sure you build your list towards punishing them for giving you first turn. For example, give Gaunt Summoner Souldraught and Arcane sacrifice and have it cast a Balewind Vortex with 3 dice rerolling, so you're almost certain you'll get it. Then you'll have a 33" threat range for your Anti horde spell. This is incredible, as your opponent will probably be at exactly 24" from you, trying to be agressive. Then there's the Enlightened who can move 16", then charge for 8", maybe spend the command reroll on that or use destiny dice. Make sure your Shaman runs in front of the enlightened before you make the charge so they're still in his aura after the charge. Then there's Tzaangors, who can move 6, auto-run for 6, and use two destiny dice (2x6) if you can spare them, giving them 24" which is enough to punish your opponent for giving you the first turn. You can make a huge conga line of 30 Tzaangors covering most of your deployment zone edge, and have them all run forward in a straight line (if the terrain will let you). The Tzaangors will most likely survive their fighting in your own turn, so they're essentially stalling your opponent during their own turn, or at least half of their army.
- I try to stay clear of units that die too quickly. I'm not too experienced yet, and therefor I might forget to screen correctly / deal with deepstrike congalines, etc. It's not worth the risk for me to field expensive flamers or burning chariots.
- You're facing a lot of armies that are stronger than yours (all of them beside Seraphon). All of then are quite agressive and straight forward. Their main tactic is run forward and punch (BOOORING). You can definately work with that. Your hero phase is your best friend, especially against those foes. Seraphon and Khorne might be able to dispell better than others, but you'll probably be having more attempts than they can deny. Don't forget to bring mobile heroes to flank those agressive dudes with your summons.
Maybe it's an idea to just start with 1K battles and work your way up again? I still tend to do smaller battles just because I feel like they're more casual than the 2.5K that my local gaming group regularly plays.
Just keep in mind that the local meta is always different, and I suspect that yours relies on heavy agression and pushing, running straight forward across the board. Maybe you can tailor your list to be anti-meta? I found out that some things just work so well for me, while they might not work in other gaming groups.
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2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:
Thinking about this list. Not sure on who to make general and what trait/artifact to go for yet.
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner (160)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (170)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
Looking good! I suggest giving the Gaunt Summoner Arcane Sacrifice. Keep a unit of pinks within 3" and you get some amazing combos. First off, you do D3 mortal wounds on the pinks, generating blue points. You can trigger your battleshock without having enemies near them. Your Gaunt Summoner then gets reroll to cast, which is amazing on its own, but you also get 9" extra range on his spells. This stacks with the Vortex, giving you 33" range on his signature spell and the bolt of change!
For artefacts I like Souldraught as it enhances your casting, but I've seen a lot of Gryph Feather charms (realm artifact) being played.
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47 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:
Hi i have a Legions of Nagash army, but looking to start a new one. I am an above average bad painter.
I like the idea of using flamers, exhaulted flamers and chariot flamers. Are they any good or how can you use them?
Tzangors on discs are really cool as well, but the paint job looks a bit hard( i painted skeletons with the easiest scheam ever).
Or is tzheentch only for magic and summoning?
Hi! I think Tzeentch would be a great choice for a second army, as it plays completely different than Death. Flesh eater cours is my second army and I love to switch armies every now and then, just for variety's sake.
Flamers and all variants of them are a little bit difficult to field right now, because they are such glass cannons. It is possible to do quite some funny things with them, though I wouldn't count on them as the bread and butter of your army.
Tzaangor enlightened however, are in a great place in my opinion, even with the recent point changes. Get a unit of 6 with spears and back them up with a Tzaangor Shaman and you'll have a powerful melee option for your relatively bad melee army.
I recommend checking out battleline first. Which ones do you like? Pink horrors have some serious summoning possibilities, while Tzaangors are relatively hard hitting, especially in bigger units. Meanwhile if you're not into both of them, Kairic Acolytes are a dirt cheap option. Then I'd look into heroes. Most heroes come with their own spells, and some of them synergize with other units. The Tzaangor Shaman, for instance, has a spell that lets you regenerate your unit of Tzaangors. There's so much stuff for Tzeentch to look into!
As for painting, don't worry too much. If you're unsure about the enlightened, start with just regular Tzaangors, as it'll just be a small upgrade from there. Hope this helps!
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Same. To be fair I've only used the Familiar version with my close group. I've always found the Familiar version to be a bit strange
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2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:
There’s literally nothing to clarify... Gaunt with familiars is dead and over in matched play. Get over it people
We've gotten as far as reading the statement. If you read back you can see we already discussed it. Whatever your stance, you must admit this is a very weird way of stating a unit isn't usable anymore.
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22 minutes ago, ThePie said:
So what is the best way to run the Gaunt Summoner now?
Cheaper without familiars or pay 20 pts extra for that +1 to casting rolls?
Treacherous bond for survival or use paradoxical shield instead? Or perhaps go all out firepower and skip on survabiliy and put artifacts on other heroes?
I'm hoping the FAQ will give more clearity on the Gaunt Summoner with familiars, because right now he's kind of in a weird spot.
However, I would say that the familiars are definately worth the 20 points in my opinion.
I always run him with Arcane Sacrifice on Pinks and a Balewind Vortex and give him the Bolt spell. The bolt and anti horde spell will then be on 33" range so he'll be able to sit back surrounded by his pool of pinks. My enemies oftenly don't get him in range, making (defensive) artefacts unnecessary.
Then again I haven't played any tournaments yet.
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52 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
Caspeur I wrote this list with the changes you were talking about. Not sure where i stand with the gaunt summoner with familiars now.
Gs w/ familiars- Arch sorcerer
glimpse the future, fold reality
Tzaangor shammy- fold reality
Tzaangor shammy- windthief charm, bolt of tzeentch
Tzaangor shammy- bolt of tzeentch
Pinks x 10- fold reality
Pinks x 10- arcane transformation
Pinks x 10- unchecked mutation
tzaangors x 20
Enlightened on disc x 6
wildfire taurus
balewind vortex
Will set up a game with my bud for this week sometime.
Let me know how it went! I'm still curious to see whether your vision on Enlightened on foot would work out, so I might try it out myself. Wildfire Taurus is an amazing idea btw, I always forget that our shammies keep the Beasts of Chaos keyword
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1 minute ago, Luke1705 said:
More like super duper alpha strike. I also play Deepkin Eels and Khorne Tyrants of Blood
How's running 9 enlightened working for you though? I find it to be a bit too fiddly sometimes to get all of them in combat while still being in range of the shaman
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Just now, Luke1705 said:
Kairos
Gaunt Summoner
Tzaangor Shaman
3 x 10 Acolytes
9 Skyfires
9 Enlightened
Ouch! You really like flying Tzaangors don't you? 😅
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1 minute ago, Luke1705 said:
That is the best news I've heard all week. My tzeentch list was at 2020 when I thought he was still 180.
Haha that's funny! Would you like to share your list? Always curious to see what people come up with!
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By all means, I'm not an experienced player so take my words with a pile of salt.
I have a prediction based on the following quote:
"This year’s General’s Handbook also contains allegiance abilities for several factions, with expanded rules for Ironjawz, Seraphon, Wanderers, Darkling Covens, Free Peoples, Slaves to Darkness and Dispossessed. If you’re looking to make the most of these forces in your games, the book is a must-have."
What I read here, is them saying that Ironjawz, Seraphon and Slaves to Darkness, will not get a 2.0 version this year. Despite already having an AoS battletome. This would mean that Sylvaneth (duh), Tzeentch, Beastclaw Raiders and Kharadron Overlords would get a 2.0 version this year.
Then there's the older factions, of which I think Aelves have rhe highest priority (simply because they seem to be mentioned the most by both GW and the community). Then Freepeepz, Ogors and Duardin will follow. Not sure in what order though. If the statement is true that they'll be getting a tome before the end of 2020, my hopes are that Aelves will release this fall, and Free peoples in spring 2020. 😊 We can only hope!
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2 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:
Where are people seeing a 160 point gaunt summoner? As far as I can see, he's still 180
The Warhammer-community warscroll builder hasn't had an update yet. He is 160 in GH19 and in the AoS app "Azyr" though.
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On 6/23/2019 at 5:41 AM, Fabint said:
So played a game today running new points on a new scenario, not sure which one (I didn't grab the book). The objectives worked such that once you got a battleline to them uncontested they held it until they left or were killed (numbers didn't matter).
I ran a Jorlbad with 2x6 Mournfang, 2x Stonehorn, and a Huskard on Stonehorn. Got the mournfangs onto objectives first thing and held them until the end of the game, playing vs a Khorne mix of daemons and mortals. Was a bit of a route with the new command abilities stopping my opponent from auto-passing morale and being unable to use bodies to take my objective.
Did you win? 😄
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6 minutes ago, Rentar said:
Go to the app, toggle the "Matched Play Only" filter, and look for the GS w/ CF. It's still there. Therefore isn't it legal?
I didn't say he doesn't exist anymore, I said he isn't officially legal anymore.
14 hours ago, Landohammer said:"Only units that are included in this book, or that have a later publication date, can be used in a Pitched Battle game without your opponent's consent"
You need your opponent's consent to be able to play him.
So you're basically asking to a TO and your opponent "Hey guys, can I play this broken version of an already powerful unit because I want to be that guy?"
If the others have somewhat of a brain, they'll say "Just play him without the familiars" and you're back at the start 😜
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6 minutes ago, Rentar said:
That, RAW, a 180 point model can summon anything with the CHAOS and DAEMON keywords from a REALMGATE, which as of this year's GHB is whenever the terrain piece is on the table. They can do this ONCE PER TURN. Not once per battle.
The above list includes: Archaon, all Greater Daemons, a max size unit of Tzaangor Skyfires/Enlightened, a max size unit of Beasts of Nurgle, any Verminlord... Etc.
While I don't doubt that any TO with a brain would dispute this, the GW official means to determine the outcome of a rules dispute is:
1. Read the Rule (Addressed above)
2. Go Upstream (irrelevant)
3. Check Errata (Addressed above. The app is more recently updated than Errata)
4. Apply rules as written (big problem here)
5. Roll die to settle if still the rule is still unclear (or ask the TO)
Thing is, since at step 4 we find a solution...
The TO need not step in (technically). Ergo, RAW, this model is the pretty much the most powerful model on any table with a REALMGATE.
So, your point is, that a unit which is not officially legal in pitched battles anymore, is extremely strong now? You probably won't even be allowed to bring him to tournaments as he isn't included in the 2019 pitched booklet. I'm sure this rule was meant to be broken for the goofier battles in open/narrative
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14 minutes ago, Rentar said:
In order to force a change ASAP, this PSA goes out to all Tzeentch Cultists. You can verify it on the official App, which is the most updated rules reference. The Gaunt Summoner on Disc was updated alongside the Gaunt Summoner with Familiars prior to the June update (in Feb). Also note that a Feb update means that it was update after the Errata (July 2018) and thus it is the most updated form of the rules.
While the 'Book of Profane Secrets' ability of the Gaunt Summoner and Gaunt Summoner on Disc were updated to be limited to once/battle and only summoning 10 of any basic Daemon (Bloodletters/Plaguebearers/Daemonettes/Pink Horrors) from a REALMGATE, the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars was not.
While, as a person who owns this model, I am excited to summon Archaon/Bloodthirsters/Keepers of Secrets/Great Unclean Ones/Lords of Change ONCE PER TURN onto the battlefield with a 180 point model, I would venture a guess that this is not how it was intended to function.
While this wasn't so important when Terrain rules/warscrolls were optional, the 2019 update specifies that Realmgate Warscrolls are to be used.
What's your point, bro? 😅😅
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On 6/20/2019 at 11:01 PM, Cauthon said:
I’m glad changhost is back to working out for you guys again.
What do you guys think of a3 shammy Cabal with horror farm backed by enlightened?
Im pretty pumped enlightened on foot didn’t go up and amazed at how much of our stuff got cheaper!
When are you planning on playing this list?
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2 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said:
The app just updated and the Summoner with Familiars is still there for 180 points and the one without familiars is a separate choice for 160.
Well, noone said that he doesn't exist anymore. You're just gonna need your opponent's consent now if you're playing pitched battles.
1 hour ago, Landohammer said:"Only units that are included in this book, or that have a later publication date, can be used in a Pitched Battle game without your opponent's consent"
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15 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
So I just got my copy of GHB 2019, but I am not seeing Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars in either Tzeentch or Everchosen section. Additionally there is a sentence in the pitched battle profiles booklet that says "Only units that are included in this book, or that have a later publication date, can be used in a Pitched Battle game without your opponent's consent"
So does that mean the Chaos Familiar version of the model is no longer fieldable in matched play?
Apparently so... it sucks but it doesn't really matter to me. Still an incredible hero with the most powerful anti-horde ability in the game. Gotta love that 20 point decrease on him 😄
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Sounds promising. Curious to see how far it'll get you after a few games!
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5 minutes ago, Sieggi858 said:
where are you getting this "two years" nonsense? Beasts of Chaos and Skaven both got allegiance abilities in the GHB the same year their battletomes came out, like just a few months before.
Don't worry. Didn't mean to trigger you. I'm just trying to be realistic, is all. Standard humies aren't a priority at all atm, which is why I won't be expecting an update anytime soon.
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22 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
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Now that you've explained what you're trying to do, I could see this work. Still, in practise I wonder how you'll manage. You'll probably get first turn, what happens then? And what will happen if you get the early double turn against you? Just marching your Pinks forward, trying to get them killed, seems lackluster to me, especially since against most armies, you'll be lacking board control in such a situation. Making it hard to push your Blues onto objectives. What I like about Enlightened on discs and the buffed Gaunt Summoner, is the first turn punishment, which is quite unique for armies to have.
Though I get that you want the Cabal, I still think the Gaunt summoner is an auto pick. Even on a unit of 10, that's 5 mortal wounds on average. If it really won't be of use too often, he uses Bolt of Tzeentch. I love running endless spells through Pinks, but for some reason the Arcane Sacrifice always seems like a demoralizing thing to the opponent. Kill one pink and get back 5 with a snap of your fingers? "TZEENTCH IS BROKEN" Muwhahaha
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5 hours ago, Stulle said:
In the recent "Warhammer Weekly" episode they mentioned that GW said that they are planning to have a battletome for each faction by the end of 2020. Usually @Vincent Venturellaand @Thomas Lyons know what they are talking about. I believe we`ll get a tome in 2020. Something like a Freecity battletome mixing legacy men, dwarfs and aelf. Will be a good year for us
Source:
That's amazing! Exactly what I want to hear! Thank you for sharing with us!
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Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore
Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
- Trait: Savage Strike
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- Artefact: Ghurish Mawshard
- Lore of Madness: Bonestorm
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour
Abhorrant Ghoul King (140)
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)
Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Total: 2500 / 2500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 500
Wounds: 106
Whatcha guys think about this list? My group mostly plays 2500 pts. I'm used to going Ghoul heavy or Flayer heavy so this is a first for me. What do you guys think of the choices I made? Is the Zombie dragon's spell worth it on this scale or would I be better off having ANOTHER Terrorgheist? 😂 Also I don't know what to do with so many spellcasters when it comes to spell lore... to be honest most spells are quite bad for this list
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I feel you man... half of the people in my group are playing competitive, and they made me stop playing for 2 months. Now I tend to avoid battling them because I'm more into goofy random battles (hence why I love Tzeentch so much). I'm sure you can find players that are less competitive! Otherwise we should wait for the battletome update. I have high hopes for Tzeentch, and expect them to be a lot easier to play on a higher level.