Yoid

I was just telling my personal opinion, i really like nudity as a design space. By the way, nudity is not equal to sex, otherwise we would say that Bloodletters are sexified too. Like the new Blissbarb Archers, some of them are bare chest and not in a sexual way. So the argument of "not too nude to not bee too much into sex" make no sense, specially when paired with the argument of "leaning also into other forms of excess" as nudity is more related to the self concept of body perfection and beauty (like Sigvald leg armor) Again, im not saying Slaanesh should go in the direction i like (but that would please me). People saying that the new KoS express other forms of excess. And why would she not show her body even more exposed as a way to share the perfection of her body? Would have been so bad to have the chestpiece be a separate bit that attach over the body to appeal everyone? It is also quite weird that Daemonettes usually dont cover the male side but do so with the female side. Maybe in the future they use more hair and tentacles to dinamically cover their nudity like they did with the Blissbarb Archers and allow for a more natural design not biased by our real world morality.

I think the day Daemonettes get an update (probably many years in the future. Unless we get new basic Daemons in a Be'Lakor Legions of Chaos Ascendant release) they will simply sculpt them on the new exalted seekers and retire the old seeker mount model. Hellstriders may be retired too in the next battletome, Slickblades are simply the modern Hellstriders, and i bet they were not retired yet simply because they wanted to sell all the stock in Shadow and Pain boxes without raising a massive rage. I really hope we get some Daemonettes more akin to Diaznettes some day. New fiends prove that the concept still work and now we already have the mortals to embody other types of sins (by the way, Blissbarb Archers really enjoy their nudity anyway). I find dissapointing that Daemonettes are the only basic Daemon that use clothes... that really feel shoehorned to appeal to our real world market instead of inmersive. If they want to tone down the sexuality of the models, i would simply make the Daemonettes smooth (nude chest with no nipples) the same way Bloodletters are allowed to be nude without specific details. When i was really young i remember nurgle models being really scary to me, imagery of people with the guts hunging outside hunted me in my nightmares. I don't get how nudity (a thing arguebly natural and beautiful out of context) can make such a scandal but gore and violence are so fine. Anyway, i really hope the next Daemons designs go in the Fiend direction. I also lament the new Keeper of Secrets design direction, i really like the ForgeWorld concept much better. Don't get me wrorng, new KoS is amazing, but a modern GW sculpt of the ForgeWorld model would please me even more. I think she is a named character in 40K, maybe some day she get a unique updated sculpt too. Im deep into Slaanesh at a Pshychological and even Philosophical level (in the best way possible, i hope) but i don't like how DoK has been getting all the naked ladies and mutated monster womans. At least my dream of running an all Fiends army seems closer.

If that is the case such meeting may not be that hard to coordinate. Or maybe they actually make an excuse in not having enough workers to loss a working day doing such a thing.

Is not about changing DoK, is about making sure that both teams are in the same page to make battletomes that are balanced externally. If DoK is ok, then that meeting would end with no point changes for them, but im sure it will result in a big decrease in points for Slaanesh. The team that did DoK would probably look at our battletome and say "In no world this unit with this bad synergy can cost that, it need to be cheaper" while HoS team may easily say "We didn't know pointing so agresive was allowed or healthy for the game, our units certainly need to be cheaper" or something like that. Is about they both being able to communicate and work within the same bounds. Of course, i actually doubt about GW taking that brilliant idea seriously, they will probably end adjusting the points based in some other confusing ways.

Im planing to write that some time later, the book is too recent, like 1-2-3 weeks after the official release. Im still making my mind about what im gonna say, but i will try to sumarize the matters i want to bring. -Communicating my opinion in points being too high except for Blissbarb Seekers and Slickblades Seekers, suggesting a point reduction of 20 to 40 points all around the roster. -Suggesting that a day is reserved for the team that did DoK battletome to review HoS tome, an the team that did HoS tome to review DoK tome. Then making an online videocall meeting bewteen both in order to adjust the points of the tomes accordingly in an externally balanced way. -Sugesting that if the points cannot be fixed in a better way until the next General Handbook, it may be a good idea to at least reduce everything in the army 10 to 20pts in the errata as a premptive move to not leave the players in a limbo. -Leaving my opinion about Slaangor Fienbloods being a problem that should not be fixed by reducing their points because that goes agaisnt their power fantasy. But suggesting that simply writing in the errata that their Razor-sharp Claw(s) got a damage value of 2 instead of 1 can probably fix the unit in an extremely easy way. That is it from the top of my head.

I think you misunderstood me. What i was trying to say is that Exalted Keeper of Secrets turned into Soulfeaster Keeper of Secrets with the release of the last battletome, and her warscroll no longer have a Command Ability despite having the same point cost as the regular Keeper. Thats why no one ever played her then. Im curious about a posible new update to the warscroll soon, but ForgeWorld is retiring a lot of AoS kits, maybe it dosn't get a proper update. So by outdated what i mean is he was reading the old warscroll, not the current one.

The problem is for every little nerf they got, they also got an incredibly big buff in point costs. Every Battletome revew i have seen so far ende with "DoK are incredible powerful and Slaanesh is a joke now" from both DoK and Slaanesh players. Meanwhile Slaanesh took only nerfs, an already cuadruple times nerfed book with an extra nerf in the point cost of every single unit thanks to the new Battletome (KoS s an excecption, even when cheaper, the nerf in the DP generation and self double activation balance it) Sure, 40% of Slaanesh is viable. But 60% of Slaanesh is the lowest of lowest tier on unviability You are gonna see a lot of people jealous of DoK because if we were pointed as agresively as DoK our book would bee strong. Seriously, just imagine our chariots going down 60 pts like theirs do instead of up 30 pts, our Daemonettes going down to 100pts like witch aelves, our archers being 20pts cheaper like Melusai Blood Stalkers, our infantry 20pts cheaper like Melusai Blood Sisters, our Hellstriders 30pts cheaper like Doomfire Warlocks... DoK players may be crying about their 11/10 Battletome going down to 10/10 Battletome in their own topic. But you are not gonna see them claiming to have the point balance that we have in our 4/10 Battletome like we do with them. You can propose to any player of DoK a swap of points from their battletome to match us and they all gonna call you mad, no one would accept such a deal. And again, internal balance of our warscrolls is perfectly fine (except for Slaangor Fienbloods) and the tome got a really fun great design of units and rules. But once you read the points, most of the units got the wrong values, only Glutos, Blissbarb Seekers and Slickblade Seekers qualify. I will leave this here too. Remember, the Daugthers of Khaine Cauldrons are currently filled with the tears of Hedonites of Slaanesh players.

Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh warscroll is outdated. With the release of our previous Battletome it was updated to the Soulfeaster Keeper of Secrets warscroll, wich is simply a way worst version of the Keeper of Secrets (It is a Keeper of Secrets with and additional not worth extra rule and no CA at all) In fact the Soulfeaster KoS is probably no longer legal, as her extra rule was something similar to absorbing DP trough the tendrils. I didn't check if the points where updated with the new Battletome, but if not, she es gonna be way overcosted compared to the new Keeper of Secrets. It depends if you want to start an expensive competitive army or a cheap casual one. I know it wasn't an option in you post, but i would actually recomend 2x Start Collecting boxes instead. Shadow and Pain give you 10xHellstriders, 10xDaemonettes 1xLord of Pain and 1xChariot kit (That can be built as a Chariot, a Hellflayer, a Bladebringer on Chariot or a Bladebringer on Hellflayer). Hellstriders, Chariots and Hellflayers (And their respective Bladebringers) are in a really bad spot right now. Lord of Pain only buff mortals, and without any meaningful motal you will struggle to make his high point cost worth in any list. So the best Deal of the box is the Daemonettes. Should be pointed that buying a Lord of Pain alone is extremely painful for the wallet on any regular human being, so adquiring it trou this box make your mind more pleasent in a way, as he come alongside a lot more of plastic. If you really want that model, this is the better deal. A Start Collecting give you 5xSeekers 10xDaemonettes and 2xChariot kit (That can be built as 2xChariots, 2xHellflayers, 1xChariot+1xHellflayer or 1xExalted Chariot [And also 2xBladebringers of any lesser kind or 1xBladebringer on Exalted Chariot]) More so, the Exalted Chariot don't use all the crew that would be required to build 2xChariots/Hellflayers and come with an extra Herald head (Since you choose between 2xBladebringers on regular Chariot or 1xBladebringer on Exalted) That mean if you build the Exalted Chariot you also get a free Viceleader (You may need to get an extra 25mm base tho). This is what most people usually forget about the Start Collecting Daemons of Slaanesh box that make it such a great deal. Seekers are currently not as bad as Hellstriders and can be summon later in the game if they die, Bladebringers and Heralds buff your whole army (a small buff tho) and can play around the Slaanesh Spell Lore to give more variety and fun, they can also locus wich Lord of Pain cannot. As before, Daemonettes are a great deal. If your idea of starting a Slaanesh army with two boxes is to play 1000pts games for a really long time, i recomend you to buy 2 Start Collecting, you will have 10x Seekers 20xDaemonettes 2xExalted Chariots (That can be played as Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots) 2xViceleaders. You will be able to play the game casually with your friends and everything will have some degree of synergy, also every model will be summonable, so you can simply resummon the units that die without the need of investing in extra models. This collection can be easily expanded later in the future with 2boxes of mortals or 1Keeper of Secrets. If you are planing to start fast and climb to 2000pts quickly and jump to the competitive list-building instead of playing with just two boxes, then the Shadow and Pain may be a better deal. The thing is what Shadow and Pain offer is a bunch of tools that don't really play well within themselfs and are better to support other pieces of the army individually, while the Start Collecting give you a functional squad of daemons that work well within themselfs.

To me everything seems to need a 10-20pts reduction to compete with what other armies offer, some people comment about our points being a first hint at AoS 3.0 general power going down, but that is not true if we look at DoK book that released the same time as ours. We get 10-40pts more cost in the units while them got 10-40pts less cost in similar performing units. This sky rocket our difference in a disparity of 20-80pts for most units, something that is completely insane (Biggest disparity is in heroes). There is a few exceptions like Daemonettes, Fiends, Exalted Chariots/Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots and both types of Exalted Seekers that seem properly costed. Pre battletome i always defended an up in cost of Exalted Chariots and Bladebringers alongside a lower point cost for Daemonettes and Fiends, but now that Daemonettes generate DP and Fiends go down 10pts and generate DP i find them fine. Then there is the Slaangor problem. Someone readed the profiles as if the three models got a Gilded Weapon or someone cannot remember that having 2 pincers dosn't mean using the combat profile of pincers twice. Even the generic rule of "Models with two pincers can reroll to hit rolls" would make sense. But in no world they can do work, and having them priced at 80-100pts without a warscroll rework would be a shame of a fix. Summoning seems balanced so far, i don't see any problem with it yet. Maybe we got to wait until cheesy StD lists start to pop out. Even then it would not be the HoS fault. I don't play Slaanesh for the rules, im not complaining to jumo into another army. I play Slaanesh because it connects with me at an emotional, psychological and aesthetical level. Been playing it with the ups and downs. Been playing it in Skirmishes campaigns (no Allegiance Abilities, no exploding 6s or summoning or locus) and im used to pay 120 pts for a guy that do as much as my opponent 80pts guy (and that now is gonna cost me 150 pts -_-). Im really pleased with the model releases and new troops archetypes and im gonna enjoy the hell out of them. But it seems obvious to me that the external balance respective to other Battletomes is all over the place, a tax that was not needed, probably born out of the fear of our past sins (the prenerfs last battletome). "But a heavy Exalted Seeker list seems competitive" I agree a few (very few) of the models were correctly priced. But by far not most. And specially not the support heroes.

I've Seen 2 battle reports so far of new Daemons of Slaanesh VS new Daughters of Khaine. It went terrible for Slaanesh both times. Lists were pretty similar (some Keepers, some Chariots (with some herlads and exalteds), some Seekers, some Hellstriders, and lots of Demonettes. VS big unit of mele melusai + big unit of ranged melusai + one unit of witch aelves, + cauldrons + medusa + Morathi) In both matches every DoK unit killed around double their point cost in models in just two turns wiping Slaaanesh army. Slaanesh attacks were really bland and killed around 300pts of the DoK army before being wiped out, even when summoning 30 more Daemonettes to the table by turn 2. Then at the end of the battle reports both players talked about everything important in DoK going down 10 to 40 pts, specially heroes, while everything in Slaanesh going up 10 to 40 pts, specially cavalry and heroes, and Keepers not working at the current point value. As a good follower of slaanesh i feel jealous of what they got, it seems like we have the short stick in this double battletome release. Of course we still got to see the mortals in play, but im feeling like they aren't gonna help too much, we got the high prices and not so good buffs that maybe make our units hit 1.5x harder, while they got price decreases and better buffs to turn the units into real blenders that hit 3x harder.

Im still seeing it as fair. Sorcerer Lord buff different units that need those buffs to really shine. Meanwhile Sharspeaker can buff a unit of 30 Daemonettes + a Keeper as an example. Both will do a good job with +1 to wound and -1 to be wounded. Daemonettes with exploding 6s into 3 hits and 3+ to wound are amazing blenders, the other nearby unit like a KoS getting the buff too is a nice addition. Yes Shardspeaker is slow and got short range, that is her weak spot. She can run every turn anyway as nor the spell or ability is negated while runing. Im fine with Shardspeaker having down-sides and up-sides. Maybe she goes down in points with time but i still like her ahs she is now. If you want the Chaos Sorcerer Lord so much you can play a heavy STD list, no euphoric killers to you, but better DP generation in the point per model value. Im not saying he is bad or anything, im saying they do two different things for they both different armies that seems similarly powerful in my mind once you add up everything.

If im not mistaken Chaos Sorcerer Lord buff an ally (single ally) Shardspeaker debuff an enemy (Potentially multiple units on your side buff). Shardspeaker got more survability too as the save increase from 5+ to 3+ when you cast a spell. (You can count that as having some extra wounds) I really like the Shardpeaker, im sure if GW make her buff an ally it would be mortal only. But as it is you can buff Daemons too. You can debuff an enemy unit with Viceleader/Bladebringer and Shardspeaker to have your whole army rr1s and +1 to wound and -1 to be wounded by it. That is huge value. (Syll'Esske also work for the rr1s)

You missed half of my point, that they are good to be summon. You still got all those advantages you said, without paying a premium in regular points if you simply summon. Also some of the things you said like self healing dosn't really make the Keeper tankier compared to 30 wounds wich is double the wounds. Of course you can make a Keeper do things, is not gonna do nothing. If you really need it from turn 1, then pay for it. I see more worth in bringing more troops and summoning her turn 2 or 3. Im not saying she doesnt do all of that you said. I just realize that you can do a twin Keepers build and they can do Excess of Violence between themselfs, so they become better if taken in pairs

I don't see the Keepers being worth taking at 340pts. But i see them being worth to summon for 12 DP as a double pile-in instant buff for any other unit (specially 30 blobs of Daemonettes) With the 340pts you can take 30 Daemonettes instead, they will hit way harder, survive longer, generate more DP... Guys looking for a lord to go with the Slickblades Seekers, you are supposed to pick a Bladebringer (any of the two). Rerolling 1s is not a bad buf for units hitting on a 3+, and you can give it both by spell or CA. Bladebringers on exalted chariots are still good even with the point hike, Bladebringers in regular chariots don't do damage but got decent wounds and you can take the healing spell for extra durability. Another good hero to go with Slicklades is probably a Daemon Prince. He move fast, fly, always strike first, can use the rerolling 1s CA, is really tanky with the 3+ save... His attacks dosn't explode on 6s, but he generate DP and can summon. It may be a good general with some artifact and command trait.

The one that generate DP changed to give the caster flying instead. Also casting difficulty of the other spells is now lower. The spell lore of regular daemons is mostly unchanged except for the buff on the healing one (now easier to cast and always heal 1d3) On other topic: They nerfed Strength of Godhood (now deal 1 wound instead of 1d3) and Sliverslash (now gives +1 attack instead of +2) That's not cool, Pretenders super heroes gonna be less super.

Wheels were reworked to not damage Slaanesh units. So only one Endless Spell can retaliate now, and even it give +bravery to us and -bravery to the enemy. Seems like a good update similar to Endless Spells in more modern tomes.

The problem with Twinsouls is they aren't gonna crack a 3+ save without rend, is too easy to give rerolling 1s to a 3+ save unit with the generic command ability and make them useless. But Twinsouls are incredible (if not the best) damage dealers vs hordes. Is funny how the article in warhammer community said just the opposite of what they are. Meanwhile Painbringers got the rend and the MWs to deal with 3+ save enemies. I like that they fullfil two distinctly field roles. Also Painbringers rerolling save is good vs no rend or -1 rend. While Twinsouls 5++ is good vs -2/-3 rend and MWs. They both are distinctly tanky. I can see myself using boths in my casual group. I play mostly vs Nighthaunt and Stormcast, so the Twinsouls wil blend the elusive ghosts while the Painbringers open the cans to smack the Stormcasts.

Slickblades deal around 10 wounds vs 4+ save (counting both exploding 6s and MW on 6s) you can round it up to 11 wound being extremely picky with the decimals, but that's it. They hit quite vanila compared to other units in the same price range without any extra tankiness. I gues you can count the 20 wounds as being tanky nowadays. Blissbarb Seekers give you same tankines for less points. I can see Slickblades performing well in a seeker cavalcade to always strike first with the pile in shenanigan, but they are not really that good statwise. The big winner for me are Daemonettes, same cost as ever, same stats as ever, but now generate DP. Just think on that big blobs of cheap 30 Daemonettes with exploding 6s into 3 hits and sharkspeakers giving +1 to wound. Once you hit 12 DP you may summon another blob of 30 if you need to refill the troops or summon a Keeper if your troops are still healthy to instantly double fight. This seems like an incredible cost-efficient list to do.

Is like the guy writing the points readed Slaangor profile as every model having both weapons, not realizing that only the leader of the unit use the second one. Slickblades definitely need to have a damage value of 2 or D3 in the spears, even if it is only while charging, they are really weirdly priced. But it seems like movement got an increase in points and we are paying that price across the army. New Fane is really interesting, it works as a summoning point, so it looks like you no longer need heroes alive to summon, you can use the fane. The sacrificing 1 wound or artifact is the same but now give +1 to hit instead of rerolling. Sacrificing 1 wound now got a really big value in DP since the table of summoning is way cheaper. Another thing i like (at casual level) is the new rules that generate DP in the three hosts. They generate a lot of DP compared to the price of summoning and seem quite fair (if anything the Godseekers rule seem powerful)

An army of Painbringers and Blissbarb Archers seem mid tier solid, im really happy with them. 4+ rerolling saves is amazing tankiness worth the point cost, and they also deal MW wich means amazing damage output too (Not broken, simply amazing) they are up to their lore reputation. Blissbarb fall a little expensive, but as an elite shooty unit, if you properly cover them they will work well (not vs shooting armies of course, but that is the top meta)

Increase of points in the daemon range seems odd. Anyway they got the upper hand in the summon table. I can see the army performing better as a full mortal deploy with daemon summoning later. The exalted seekers seem to win the point cost war for me, 4 wounds each for a total of 20 wounds is really good in that point range. The deep looser of the battletom are Slaangor Fiendbloods, they are the new Fiends i guess. Talking about Fiends, if im not mistaken they go down 10 pts and their stats are excellent now that they generate DP. Enrapturess not generating DP and being more costly is weird, but you can generate 1DP with the long range attack, or around 2-3 with the multishot, and emeies hutying themselves while casting spells will give you DP too. Seems like a good investment after all, i always wanted her to be more liek a ballista dealing damage, but i will take it. If Viceleaders and Bladebringers are not improved, i hope they got better spells in the Spell Lore. The ones for Greater Daemons greatly improved.

In 4chan, people posted random leaks in the mountain of messages, I found Allegiance Abilities, Spell Lore of greater Daemons and Mortals, point costs, Blissbarb Seekers, Slaangors, Sigvald, Sharspeaker, Glutos, and somwone hand writed the Blissbarb Archers stat line (Homunculus make you +1 to wound for a total of 2attacks/4+/3+/-1rend/1damage. I dont think is that bad for the cost, they can run and shoot, is an extremely good stat line for shooting battleline even if they cost 160 they got 11 wounds and not 10. I can see them surviving the whole match and hurting their point cost if you do proper frontlines. But i don't really play competitive just casual with my friends, i deel like a shooty competitive army will mock the floor with you no matter what you pick in this army. But im really happy about playing 11 to 22 Blissbarb Archers and finally playing in all phases of the game performing some decent shooting.

Slaangor are terrible for their price, old daemonettes beat them in every aspect. I cannot find new daemonettes tho, but they still cost 110 agaisnt the worst at everything slaangors that cost 140. One of the mortal spells give +1 to hit vs an enemy unit, but you got to beat the bravery of the unit in a 2d6 roll, extremelly unreliable. The sharspeaker +1 to wound is good tho, but i cannot see it saving the slaangor warscroll, they hit on 4+. Daemonette heroes going up 20 to 40 pts is interesting, i want to see the warscrolls, maybe now they are really good somehow, a better spell would help. If Enrapturess keep generating DP now is gonna matter a lot more because cost of DP are really low, maybe she is now a wizard or have 2 long range attacks instead of 1. I don't know, im very excited. Painbringers seems really similar to chosen. I was planing to play chosen before the mortals were anounced. I hope they are not just worst chosen in the end, the shield got to do something. I cannot see Twinsouls working without rend or MW output. Chariots going up too, maybe they are better now. Keepers going down as expected, they no longer resummon themselfs. But i can see some buffs to the stat lines if they cost so much. They are cheap DP cost tho. I hope shields, knifes and whips get a cool rework. The spell lore for greater daemons is amazing right now. (Spell that make you fly, spell that heal you, spell that block movement, charge and command abilities to an enemy hero. All of them easier to cast than before) We will see the long awaited rework of the keeper basic spell? Ther is a lot of warscrolls i cannot find. The battalion that allows you to shoot blissbarb archers in the hero phase tho... Shootslaanesh is coming!

Dosn't look like Syll'Esskan Host could work with the new DP system. We probably miss the three sub-sub-factions in Wrath of the Everchosen too. But it seems like the Battletome gonna be amazing on his own.

I also expect massive discounts in our heroes and specially Keepers now that they aren't DP bags that self summon another one anymore. They may go the other way tho and overprice every single unit in the army now that everyone generate DP. Summoning 3 Fiends cost 8 DP, it feels juicy for Fiends lovers.