soak314
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Posts posted by soak314
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Edit stuff down.
I can't stomach most AoS youtube content because of length, along with the inherent unwatchability of AoS from a spectator standpoint. Longest I'll usually last watching a battle report is 3 minutes into the game proper.
I'd much rather see a series of photographs and a voiceover giving a far more terse overview of the game than a full on recording of the game.
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@Moldek The buff tokens should address some issues with hordier factions losing a lot of their bodies early. There's potential for abuse here too, ie the typical squigboss + 19 grots build giving you a spectacularly buffed up squigboss. I'm pretty confident it won't happen though cuz I'm the only gitz player in my local 😆 I'd also have to address LoN players running skelly spam, since they can legally bring models back.
I'm still mulling over the monsters bit, I don't want to give the losing players anything too rudimentary as it'll be boring for em, but I also don't want to punish the actual winners too hard. What will probably end up happening is the remaining non-monster warbands will always end up facing each other unless there's an odd person out, in which case the freshest non-monster player gets to fight a monster warband.
I'll also make it so the first couple of rounds aren't super killy I think. I'm counting on people either being very defensive with their dudes, or just going totally kamikaze.-
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I've been cooking up a Warcry narrative event for a bit: it'd be a short form (4 week) campaign with a one day event at the very end to cap it off. Everyone starts off with a fresh sheet to start off with, and will play as many games as they can within the 4 weeks, accruing as much bodies, beasties and quest rewards as they can.
The event proper is a terminal point for all these warbands: it's meant to cap the campaign off totally. It does this by making every death in that particular day permanent, meaning whatever models die, are crossed off your sheet for good. No dice saving roll, no free recruitment. Permadeath would apply to the leaders too.The matchups would be standard GW style matched robin, going for five rounds each player, with some tweaks to the matchmaking under certain conditions.
For each model you lose in this manner, you'll be given a token, which can be assigned to any other model at the start of each game, giving them either +1 wound, +1 attack dice to all their attacks, or +1 movement. If you lose a model with token upgrades, you get none of them back.When a player is unable to fulfill dagger/shield/ spear requirements, they may then choose to completely ignore the rules for staggered deployment, and may stack their remaining units up in any of the three sections however they want.
The event scenarios will all be pre-determined so they'll always involve explicit murder as victory conditions. I'll also try and provide as many wandering beasts as possible, and will have em feature a LOT in the rigged twists
If a player is knocked out before they're able to fill their five matches, they get to choose to run one of the following custom warbands for the rest of the event:
- A Nameless Varanguard with his Retinue
- Mollog the Mighty and his Mob
- Spiteclaw's Swarm
- A Really Pissed Off Treelord Ancient (+ Dryads)
- Badstuf's Boyz (Greenskinz + a Gargant)
- The White Knight (AGK + a Terrorgheist)
(... I actually have a tonne more ideas for custom guys than is realistically usable lol)
These warbands are going to be overpowered by design: at this point they're just catharsis for the players who lose, and a chance to mess up the stronger bands who they'll suddenly be facing.
By narrative event standards this is designed to be a bit more stressful than usual: it sets the stakes pretty high with the weeks of progression leading to a permadeath event. But I feel it leans into the overall atmosphere of Warcry, with its hideously swingy rolling and oppressive chaos setting. I want there to be a sense of definite dread going into the final event, actual risk of suddenly losing Your Guys to a random stack of crits from a couple of goblins.
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Watcha guys think? I'm personally a sucker for the concept of permadeath and making high risk, unretractable choices where the odds could violently swing in either direction. Something Warcry can mechanically provide but chooses not to. I do recognize that it's potentially not everyone's cup of tea though.-
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End of round scoring is already the case for Meeting Engagements. For the end of round scoring to work, the format also adds:
- a hard 4 round limit to all battleplans
- Major and Minor victories for all battleplans based on the amount of points you beat your opponent by (not just tiebreakers)
- 2-3 stage staggered deployment where the new units come out immediately at the end of player turns
In ME scoring at the end empowers whoever takes second turn, as it lets them call the shots for the layout of the table for the turn incoming, or for the very end scoring phase. Going second also lets you immediately react to any additional units that have come in, as well as buff a unit up for the receiving end of combat if you end up going second again next turn.
You see a similar meta in Infinity, where having the second, reactionary turn is much more sought after in missions where there are objectives to sit on and buttons to push.
I personally think end of round scoring works phenomenally well with the dynamic of the double turn, especially in Meeting Engagement's smaller format.
For standard 2k though? You'd have to give the system a rehaul before flipping scoring to end of round. It could totally work on specific battleplans, and I would love if they made a set of matched play battleplans for 2k that follows Meeting Engagement's design lead. -
11 hours ago, Eldarain said:
Gloomspite. Each subfaction functions nicely. A mixed army also does well. Few trap/awful entries. Nothing meta warping or excessively negative play experience (depravity, crazy mortal spam, activation abuse, Summoning spam)
This. Going as far internally as stabbas vs spears, Ggitz gives you some genuinely difficult choices when you listbuild, regardless of your subfaction. There's also barely any stinkers in the warscrolls (probably just palooza, loonsmashas, and dankholds. But even then they're just too expensive). The extreme tryhard lists within the faction all come with some nifty caveats too: grotspam folds hard to antihorde. Squig based lists tend to be fragile, and will always have to deal with random movement.
The book's lore is also phenomenal, which is always a bonus.
I'd also put up FeC for some very similar reasons. People tend to focus on the nasty meta tgheist lists, but beyond that one trick the book is really well done. FeC have a tiny model range, and the rules manage to squeeze out so much listbuilding diversity out of barely any models. The fact that they weren't consolidated into another death faction tells me the internal teams were really enthusiastic about FeC, and it shows through in the excellent lore, and just the general awesome feel of the army.
And then of course there's CoS for very obvious reasons.-
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Yea I'd say it's in a pretty stellar spot. The models are consistently fantastic, and the lore is engaging without being as dire as it was in the past. It's quite popular in my local, too. There's at least one AoS game at my club per week, and I have a big pool of people to draw from whenever I want to get a game.
I have some farily deep issues with them using powercreep as a purchase-pusher for a system that clearly was not designed for competitive play. But they've also put out a honest to god, low cost, competitive alternative in Underworlds. It'd be remiss for me to complain about a company's balance in one system when they're actively giving full support to a perfectly robust tournament-focused system on the side.
AoS in general is a reflection of how GW's grown as a company. I remember hopping out of the hobby in the early 2010's because of how isolated and elitist it felt to get into wargaming. These days its as easy as picking up one of the nightvault boxes. Add to that more people in my age range having stable jobs and actually being able to afford the hobby, and the overall experience is pretty darn alright.-
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8 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
Do I still enjoy playing the game, yes. But competitive play locally has just become an exercise is creating lists that offer your opponent zero chance to interact with what you are doing, is that a balanced game, no.
This pretty much sums up my relationship with the system at the moment, lmao.
As per the balance issues and AoS being approached as a competitive system: GW sends out tournament packs to their stores and affiliated retailers, correct? AFAIK AoS and 40k don't really get big fancy packs. All the tourneys I've heard about and been to are all independently organised. Compare this to Kill Team's and Warcry's event packs which all come with some *very* fancy metal medals.
Spoiler
I've got one of these and they are proper swish.
Compare it further to Underworlds' trophy, what I believe to be GW's only truly good tournament game:Spoiler
Seriously you could accidentally hurt yourself with that thing.
The focus on these small-system tournament packs may also be a function of smaller Warhammer store sizes + an already established, purchase-happy buyerbase for their wargames. But I feel the marketing message is already pretty clear.
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Can anyone clarify that multiple sources of wound shrug stack? I've just been told by a regular tourney player that they do. In our case, it'd apply to the rogue idol's 5+, then warpaint 6+ shrug.
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Rogue Idol's got the keywords now! Not sure when they uploaded the warscroll on forgeworld, but it's now legal in any OW list.
Everything else about the warscroll is the same, I think. -
1 hour ago, broche said:
I'm not so sure you can't play big waaagh without Gordrakk. There is a lot of way to pump Waaagh point, that you should get to 16 by round 2 already, and 20 is almost garantee by turn 3.
Taking a maw-krusha with trait like Ironclad or Live to fight is certainly not a bad choice.
And I think Ardfist is really good. the fact that it lower your drop, and cost just 120 points for the odds of grabing a far objective mid game, i'll take that any day!
My first game with DBW had me at 20 points turn 2 easy, and it wasn't even at 2k.
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34 minutes ago, Zanzou said:
Genuinely wanted to at least try Cities of Sigmar, but after reviewing the battletome realized the motivation that I lost over the great culling is still gone and I don't know if it will ever be back. Losing the variety subfactions still had was the last kill of the appeal for me. This is just personal apparently, as I see most people here still enjoy it at best, or can overlook the problems at worst. I'm depressed with the direction the hobby has gone between the aesthetics of new factions, magic and MW power creep, lore, but most importantly depressed with how cheapened everything feels when GW's rinse and repeat sell cycle quickly treats old factions and rules as disposable. I feel like collecting what I am actually interested in in time to see support without major rule changes is just a race I am personally never going to win as a slow builder in their constant sales cycle. People will say things like "of course x models were gonna go", but as a new player I never saw it that way.
Up until now I've just spoken against changes I don't like, but at this point I don't know what I want out of the hobby anymore. Might end up cashing in a few thousand dollars worth of models. We'll see...
Have you considered retrogaming with em? I know its a tired response to the culling at this point, but it's a fairly robust option. And not just retrogaming as far back as WHFB. You could also use the rules from AoS 1.0 when everything was in compendiums and at a relatively even power level. I'd love to play a few games with the older factions exclusively while using the tighter 2.0 core rules, battleplans, realm stuff, and even endless spells.I've also heard great things about 9th age and SAGA (Age of Magic specifically), if you're feeling burnt out on GW systems in general.
The most similar thing I've felt like this recently is the axing of the greenskinz and basic duardin. I've got a bunch of em kicking around, since I'm just really fond of the models. I'm keeping my dwarfs on their squares for retrogaming, and maybe running them as counts as freeguild for AoS friendlies. My greenskinz are getting adapted to be both aos bonesplitterz and snakebitez for 40k. It lets me keep the generic ork aesthetic/flavour I like so much while also being able to dabble in multiple systems.
Both sets of models are also eventually getting shunted into my frostgrave games at points, and for sure into SAGA whenever I get around to playing that again.-
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5 hours ago, Scurvydog said:
Was it not mentioned in the stream preview that the Rogue Idol would get an update? wondering when...
I saw it mentioned in one of those news compilation articles, not sure if it was actually verbally dropped in the stream preview itself. -
3 hours ago, Incredebilis said:
So at least on the Azyr Warscroll Builder, Greenskinz units are available in Da Big Waaagh. Don't think the Rogue Idol is though.
Yep, unless they change his warscroll, it looks like he's illegal to field in matched play for any sort of orruk warclans list! -
One more game in, 1600 again (its a local meta thing).
Ran Da Big Waaagh with a tweaked list to last time, and managed to get to 20 points by the end of my turn 2. Went to a draw vs a troggherd, but we only played til turn 2 and I was likely to table him if it went on. He utterly wrecked my boarboyz, but my morboyz were relatively pristine, and fully buffed, while he was on his last 5 troggs.
Waaagh pts Breakdown after spoilers:
SpoilerTurn 1: total = 12
Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 4Ere we go = 5
Turn 2: total = 21Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 1
Ere We Go = 2
Charges = 2
Heroes in combat = 1
Turn 3: Total = 24/2 (Waaagh) = 12
Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 2
Charges = 2
Was a lot more conservative with alpha striking this time, and my teef rukk managed to take out a troggoth hag in turn two's combat phase. From that point, all ~20 of my morboyz were hitting on 2+/2+.
For an example of how this performs, I made a ten inch charge into a troggboss that only got 6 of 16 morboyz into base contact for 24 attack rolls. I did a Big Waaagh and got 6 more attacks, which made the trog take 22 saves, which it did not survive.
The Wurrgogg is a beast of a caster. His artefact and command trait choices are a genuinely difficult decision. As we know Morks boney bitz + master of the weird gives him extremely reliable casting (I halved a 40 blob of grots in one cast with him in that game), but he isn't particularly tough, so Glowin' Tatooz might be a very good relic take if you're in a skaven/casting/shooting heavy meta (which you probably will be as soon as people dust off their CoS models.)
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From these two games I'm having a really hard time choosing what I'd run for a tryhard event. Pure bonesplitterz Da Big Waaagh + possibly one of the clans seems like a really strong pick, but the free 5-8" move and the monster hunting passives can really help you out too. -
Does anyone know if the rogue idol is actually getting a warscroll update to have all the keywords? No updates yet on the store pdf and app!
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Got a game in with new rules. Bit of a funny pointage at 1600 but a game's a game!
Ran my non clan bonesplitters and got utterly creamed by Hedonites, but pulled off a sneaky, incredibly lucky win by yeeting a group of boyz 21 inches into a back point with a double roll breath of gorkamorka + CP max run.
Wasn't very clever with my 6 stack of big stabbas, who promptly got locusd' and beat up on in their alpha strike charge. They still managed to get a a Keeper of Secrets down to 2 HP even with just the two of them surviving to attack, it was nuts. Using a spearhead blob of em, or just having a min count Teef Rukk attacking over your battleline is so good. That 3 inch range + all their potential buffs is so useful.
I also ran two 20 stacks of morboyz, they're somewhat robust, but really need the big boss or MWN buffing em if they want to chew into a rival blob. Stick em near a monster though and hooo man. Having automatic access to the mortals on 6's to wounds is great. Having the big stabbas nail a monster early and give morboy blobs +1 to hit while they're still at numbers is imperative to their success I think.
And finally, the Wurrgog. +2 to cast from trait and mork's boney bitz, then the additional +1 from a wardokk, then another situational one for arcane had him nailing every single one of his casts. It's quite achievable to get him to reliably 10+ with fist of gork, which as we know is an awesome horde sweeper.
In a couple of days I'm gonna play a game with this identical list, but as Da Big Waaagh. I don't see it working particularly well at this lower pointage with bonesplitterz, but I think I can generate a respectable amount of points with my 3 casters and the two blobs. It'll be rough forgoing 6+ fnp buuut the universal bonuses to hit might just be worth it.-
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I've made a full 22x30 baseboard with accompanying terrain just for warcry, so yeah definitely!
It's awesome because you don't realize how low cost and relatively easy making terrain is compared to painting up an army up until you try it.
Then you'll also soon realize how useful it is to just *have* terrain handy, especially if you've made something suitably generic that can be used in other systems.-
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20 minutes ago, Dew said:
GW let's you filter search for Warcry Allies and Monsters now on their site.
So here are the characters and monsters:
Pretty good! Hopefully that's also a preview of what other non chaos factions they're planning on adding.
Anyone else getting a frostgrave vibe from warcry given the contents of the new book? They're both narrative/campaign driven games with a big bestiary. From a marketing perspective they're a great way for GW to push slow selling kits like the chaos beasties and various heroes.
Really hoping the next books after this will be quest compilations, or additional loot tables. Possibly base rules! Anything to liven up the campaign a little bit more. (It's fine, but I'd love a lot more options now that I'm about to finish my first quest.) -
1 hour ago, Moldek said:
I’m not too worried about the game moving too fast, but I am not sure I’ll buy this book mostly because I wasn’t impressed with the contents of the main one. It’s a fine rule book with a few really good pieces of art and some cool content, but I feel it lacks a bit of soul, something that makes you come back to read it and daydream about the setting. That’s actually one of the only weak points of modern GW to me. The products are more streamlined / professional but they have less atmosphere that for instance the mordheim rulebook or the 3rd ed 40k rulebook. But that’s maybe just nostalgy talking 😅
I'd say modern GW is the most I've been invested in the lore! For AoS specifically. It's because it's all new and exciting, and you're there at the genesis of it all.
I like to cite the Gloomspite book as a great example. It was the first rulebook I picked up, then began skimming, then promptly devoured completely. Even my beloved 40k orks had never had any of their codices read straight through in one go. The Gloomspite, FeC, Idoneth, Nurgle, and DoK books have all been fascinating reads.
There's a lot of stinkers too, however. Skaven is a bit of a prime example. Not a lot of culture in that book, it's all history. Which I understand, because they're such an iconic faction, they gotta largely stay the same.
The Warcry book is definitely a case of that too. I don't particularly jive with chaos myself, but the nurgle and BoC books held my attention, the Warcry book did not.-
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Whatever profile that chimera in the front has is going to get counts as'd as sooo many different things in my group lol. I'm hoping the book is predominantly campaign stuff with less pages dedicated to the matched play bit. What we have for matched play is more than enough for the moment, especially knowing we have X+2 more warbands en route.
Has anyone even gotten through a quest yet? I'm just at the second convergence on my bonesplitterz, they've been doing great.-
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4 hours ago, Fairbanks said:
Also, in my experience, discussion about ME just kind of boils down to asking "Why don't we just play a game of AoS at the 1000 points level?"
Absolute opposite for me, bring ME up and everyone goes 'oh its so 1k isn't terrible to play at'. -
I push heavily for it at my local. As I've said before, it's got a lot of flaws that need to be reworked but is otherwise a far more engaging ruleset to work competitive aos with, IMO.
People successful at 2k will tend to scoff at the new format, because it's something outside of their comfort zone. People with underperforming armies who suddenly have a very apparent edge in ME absolutely love it. People who prefer building for ability combos and winning with pure math will heavily dislike ME's randomized deployments and curbed unit sizes. People who prefer the game behave more like an actual combined arms wargame tend to enjoy ME.
Unfortunately tournaments dictate what the meta goes for where I am. Nobody's running ME because the big yearly tryhard event runs 2k, and most people want to practice for that constantly.
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Just now, Moldek said:
@soak314 that's a really good point, I think you changed my mind on this! I guess I can picture the fighter sneaking a wild shot while letting go of the obstacle, hoping to slice a tendon, and then falling backwards 😛
Cheers! Yeah I've had a lot of games since release with people very keen to break this system, that along with making up and testing homebrew rules gets you super aware of how to cheese things.
Extra fun part with this is when you do fall after the climb > attack, your opponent can pick where you land. If there's dangerous terrain within the 2 inches, it'll make for a pretty entertaining back and forth series of events.-
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1 hour ago, Moldek said:
But RAW in english you do have a point, it does not explicitly prevent you from doing that. Although the times you'd want to do that are probably pretty rare haha.
They're rare, but in the instances you'd WANT to do climb > attack, I bet you will REALLY want to do climb > attack.
Example situation from an actual game: There is an objective on a platform. Stormcast eternals are meant to defend it. Stormcast player parks his 3 massive footprint models on the platform, which is > 3 inches up. There is now no way for you to place any other models on this platform.
If you weren't able to climb > attack, the only way you'd be able to legally attack the stormcast would be through weapons with range > 3 inches. Something some factions straight up do not have, and the ones that do that aren't stormcast will generally be very unlikely to kill a Stormcast Eternal, in cover, within the 3-4 turns of shooting they're provided. Maybe they'll knock one off with a crit? Maybe they're untamed beasts and can harpoon one off? Or maybe they're ironjawz and just cry.
Highly specific example, but platform denial is a mechanic all factions can make use of to a degree! It's important you be able to climb > attack for everyone to be able to have a shot at countering it.-
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AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
Won a Meeting Engagement tournament with my boyz a couple of weeks back!
Clan: None
SPEARHEAD: Maniak Weridnob (BoG) w/ Big Wurrgog Mask) / 5x Spear Boarboyz
MAIN BODY: Wurrgog Prophet (BBS) w/ Master of the Weird / Wardokk (KBS) / 20x Morboyz
REARGUARD: 20x Morboyz
Prismatic Palisade
Battleplans were Center Ground, The Borderline, Rearguard Action. No realm rules as this was the first ME event we'd done with a bunch of beginners.
Won with a Major, Major, then a Minor. Minor was to a in incredibly even match with an FeC Blisterskin player, who only lost because of some very dicey rolls from either of us.
Top 3 (Myself, Troggherd, Blisterskin FeC) were separated by 2 points each at the end.
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I feel the Wurrgog's not quite a must-take in ME. He's incredible when you're faced with a blob and manage to roll over 10 to wipe half of em out, but most times you struggle to find a use for the second cast, or fail to get Fist of Gork to do its full work. A second Maniak Weirdnob + a CP or another stack of pigs might give the list more tactical breathing room.
I'm heavily considering dropping the second stack of boys in the Rearguard for more pigs. The Morboyz are incredible in ME, but sometimes the battleplan's deployment zones really kneecap the massive blob's deployment. Another consideration is replacing them with Spearboyz for a much sturdier (in melee at least) blob.
2 boxes of boyz = 36-40 feral orks which is very likely going to be your sensible maximum at 1k. Use the third one to make yourself a whole bunch of big stabbas (if you really want em) with all your accumulated big stabba parts. Recast the big stabba bits with oyamaru and resin and you'll potentially have yourself a whole bunch! You'll also likely wanna convert up some heroes using the kits, the BS resin models are pricey and you're gonna have a lot of spare bitz after three boxes. Every on foot ork in BS is on a 32mil base, so you'll have everything you need.
1 box of pigs = 10 pigs, again a really good number to be at for the pointage. You may want to spare one of the pigs + rider for a weirdnob conversion, his resin model is both expensive and not very good looking.
The mawkrusha isn't something you can take by default, but you can definitely take it in big waagh. If you do some conversion on it and grab the relevant big sized base you'll be able to run it as a Rogue Idol, which is arguably even better than a mawkrusha in most cases!
And lastly, consider Meeting Engagements for 1k. It's a hell of a lot more compelling that standard 1k, and I think you'll find your Sylvaneth pretty damn good in the format too.