Trevelyan

Never eat yellow snow! Also, don’t take too seriously everything that you read in some forums (other than here, you can trust everything you read here). It is theoretically possible to block all useful wyldwood placement, but it happens far less often than the armchair general community seems to think. You will often struggle to place a wood in the optimal position, and you will also need to plan ahead to have your casters in range of the spots you can use, but I’ve never played a game where I couldn’t place any woods anywhere useful. The TLA is still useful, but his guaranteed wood (and that from the Acorn) aren’t a direct solution to the placement problem, only to the reliability - if there is nowhere to place a Wyldwood then all the TLAs in the world won’t help you. They do allow you to place multiple Wyldwoods in an early turn before the enemy advances to block available space, but that also means that all your Wyldwoods will be close to your deployment (wholly within 18” for the TLA or 12” for the acorn). That may be all you need, of course, depending on the scenario. But you probably only really want one of those two options; I would suggest that you take the TLA and don’t worry about the Acorn. The TLA can cast Verdant Blessing to summon a third wood if you really need one.

Ah, the Branchwych. Such a nice model, but although I’ve got four (Fromm SC boxes) I’ve only ever assembled two, and I last played on in a list in... maybe early 2018? I can’t remember. If you have a second Branchwraith then that’s definitely the way to go - vastly more durable and redundancy on the summoning. I’ve yet to use more than four of the new Wyldwoods in a game, including the free placement at the start. I’m sure there are occasions where I’ll be glad to have more, but four seems like a practical upper limit and three is enough to start. The fourth Wyldwood is useful if you have it, though. It’s always the one that I place behind enemy lines for late objective grabbing when the opportunity permits.

I agree with you on the value of Quicksilver Swords, but you can only activate the command trait once per turn. The Spiritsong Stave gives you more chances, but the Versperal Gem is guaranteed. The real question is whether the option to cast two spells with the TLA is worth the possibility of succeeding at neither (due to poor rolls or unbinding). I think it might be in some situations but that would depend a lot on spell selection and the other casters in the list - you could always have another caster going for volume while you keep the TLA reliable.

I personally quite like Gnarlroot. My immediate question concerns the Branchwych. I’m not convinced that she adds a lot by herself, and I’m doubly doubtful of her ability to successfully cast Verdurous Harmony on a reliable basis. You might be better giving VH to the TLA, and giving the branchwych (or a second ‘wraith) the relatively easy Regrowth. Giving Regrowth to Drycha is also an option as she’s most likely to need it, so casting on herself manages the LoS requirement wherever she is. Spiritsong Stave plus Throne of Vines on the Branchwraith is a viable combo. The alternative, for consideration only, would be to give the Branchwraith the Chalice and give the TLA the Vesperal Gem. If you expect the TLA to cast Awakening the Wood a lot then the Chalice is the better option, but if you see him as a pure healbot (including a VH bot if you swap the spells) then the Gem is more reliable, especially in conjunction with Nurtured by Magic. For endless spells, I’ve always been fond of Quicksilver Swords. It was a steal at 20 points and still valid at 30 as a possible alternative to the Gladewurm. The wurm is useful as a blocking base, but unreliable on damage or healing - although it can do a bit of both, it’s not the best at either. The Swords have a much greater effective range if you want something that can snipe enemy targets early. Gladewurm is still a good “safe” option for the points though.

It’s superficially sensible, but directly contradicts the rules for Glades in the battletome so appears completely wrong.

What makes you think that? The Glades Allegiance Ability clearly states: “If your army is a Sylvaneth army you can give it a Glade keyword. All Sylvaneth units in your army gain that keyword.” Technically, Ylthari’s Guardians would have two different Glade keywords if you run a Glade other than Oakenbrow. But since you only get any abilities for the Glade you pick (“If you pick one [Glade] from the list below, all units with that keyword benefit from the extra abilities...”) the Oakenbrow keyword is redundant.

See Emissary for the Branchwraith. You absolutely want one. You almost certainly want either Durthu or the TLA. They are excellent in a 1000 point list (and in a 2000 list). It really depends whether you want a heavy hitter or a support caster. Whichever one you pick will almost certainly be your general If you’ve got an arch revenant then that opens up more options; it is better than then branchwych. I would be tempted to try something like Durthu, Arch Rev and Branchwraith, a unit of Sword Hunters, 20 Dryads and 5 Tree Revenants. If my mental arithmetic is correct that’s exactly 1,000 points. It’s a little lighter on casters than I prefer in a list, but it has a lot of hitting power. Try it and see if it works for you. If you want more casting then you can swap Durthu for a TLA and maybe add an endless spell. Emissary is wise.

I posted something in response to a similar question recently (14 Sept). You can see the details upthread, but essentially you’ve already got the basis for a good 1000 point list if you take a unit of Dryads, a unit of Tree Revenants, a branchwych and one of Durthu or the TLA. But you will want to add a Branchwraith to your collection

I agree with your first part to a point. I wouldn’t personally put Durthu as an ally in a Wanderer list, but then I wouldn’t put a Treelord in a Wanderer list either (to be honest, it’ll be a cold day in hell before I play Wanderers). Neither is worthwhile in a list that has zero synergy, so from that perspective you’ve got a choice between wasting 200 points or wasting 340 points. But Durthu is vastly more fun than a Treelord, and I would honestly say that he’s more than 140% more fun. No one plays Wanderers to be remotely competitive, but Durthu at least lets you suffer in style. If you absolutely insist on taking a treelord variant and competitive issues aren’t a priority then Big D has to be the better choice. I completely disagree with your second part. The real better choice is either Kurnoth Hunters or simply to play a proper Sylvaneth list. But those weren’t options we were asked to evaluate. 🙂

I’d like to know the same. I could see Alarielle casting Throne then Spell Portal then summoning a distant Wyldwood on turn 1, but if the Spell Portal is conveniently placed for the Branchwraith then it could also provide a means to keep the ‘wraith safe while still casting Regrowth on Alarielle or Durthu if necessary on subsequent turns from back in deployment. An early Metamorphosis snipe would be an alternative to a distant Wyldwood depending on what the army needs If I had to hazard a guess, I would imagine that the real strength of the spell is flexibility.

Catching up on posts that I missed... While that is true, even with only 3 attacks, Durthu is still significantly better than a standard Treelord. Doing 6 damage rather than d6 while uninjured more than makes up for one fewer attack, and he holds up well under damage relative to the Treelord, keeping the same 3 attacks and d6 damage until he is virtually dead, while the Treelord matches the damage but loses out on the attacks over time. Durthu has a better ranged attack too, offsetting the hit rate with much higher damage. If a Treelord is worth 200 points to you as an ally then Durthu is worth 340. I doubt either is really worth it, but that wasn’t the question.

For spell casting and healing I would look at Gnarlroot. Outside of Drycha, our best sources of mortal wounds come from spells - either directly from spells which cause them, or indirectly from casting them near Wyldwoods. Since some of our best faction spells are healing spells, you can potentially heal and wound at the same time. You will want Drycha for her potential mortal wounds and her spell casting. Taking a Lord of the Clans battalion gives you a short range mortal wound ranged attack, as well as opening up the popular Vesperal Gem. That plus the Chalice of nectar should guarantee at least two spells per turn, and the Chalice is great for getting some of the higher casting value endless spells out early. The TLAs Awakening the Wood spell is also a solid source of mortal wounds that simultaneously triggers the wyldwood. Take that as an elite starting point and build out from there. EDIT: for example Drycha Lord of the Clans (2x TLA, 1x Treelord) Branchwraith 3x5 Spite Revenants 6x Scythe Hunters comes to 1840 points. That leaves you 160 points to add endless spells and/or add the Outcast battalion for an extra artefact. I would make one of the TLAs the general with the Vesperal Gem, and give the other the Chalice. Between them they should have Regrowth and Verdurous Harmony. Drycha could have Regrowth (for flexibility if the Regrowth TLA needs to cast another spell) of something more offensive. With Outcasts you can give the Branchwraith the Spiritsong Stave and Throne of Vines for extra casting power. If your focus is on mortal wounds and you intend to leverage the Wyldwoods then Vengeful Skullroot is a solid spell choice. Skullroot plus the Outcast battalion takes you to 1980 points.

That’s very much a matter of opinion. Durthu has a very distinctive head, as does the Treelord Ancient with his “beard”. The belts are quite individual too. And that’s before you get to the shoulder branches which also vary - Durthu has a lot of skulls amidst his (as with his belt). I can tell them at a glance, and I would imagine that the majority of Sylvaneth players can too You can probably get away with just changing the weapon, especially in a casual game, but it’ll look half baked.

I’ll start with a caveat that, if you’ve got budget constraints, then Sylvaneth might not be the best faction to start. By the time you get to the 2000 point range you will want at least four boxes of Wyldwoods in addition to your actual army. You realistically want at leat two for 1000 point games, and there will be occasions when you want more. That said, the Start Collecting box is a solid start. There is definitely value in picking up two boxes in time, but maybe not for 1000 points. A single Start Collecting plus a box of Tree Revenants and a box of Kurnoth Hunters will give you around 760-800 points, depending on how you assemble the Treelord. I’d recommend starting with either the Ancient or the Spirit of Durthu, and assemble the other from your next Start Collecting box. If you are short on Wyldwoods then Durthu probably gives you more bang for your buck, and is horrifying in low point games. An extra box of Dryads will give you a total of 32 (16 each in the SC and stand alone box). Add a branchwraith and you’ll essentially have a 1000 point army with scope for summoning an extra unit of Dryads. No idea what that would actually cost you, but in summary: Start Collecting + Tree Revenants + Dryads + Branchwraith + Kurnoth Hunters gives you a good 1000 list. Then get as many Wyldwoods (or substitutes) as possible.

Thanks to those who offered advice on this. I played the game last night and managed a squeaky win. I ended up taking a simple list combining Lords of the Clan with Forest Folk and bumping one unit of Dryads up to 20 models. Gnarlroot glade, I gave the TLA general the Vesperal Gem and Regrowth, the second TLA had the Chalice and Verdurous Harmony while the branchwraith had Throne of Vines and the Spiritsong Stave. The strategy was simple - 1) get first turn (easy with a two drop list); 2) put a wyldwood near two of the objectives (one TLA automatic wood and one summon boosted by the Chalice) 3) have the treelords teleport to the objectives via the woods on Turn 1 and bring the Dryads in from reserve to bubble wrap them. 4) Hold one objective for the game and the other for as long as possible. To avoid the suspense, it mostly worked. I won through a combination of largely following the plan and my unforced errors being less serious than my opponent’s unforced errors. Setup: I followed the plan with a couple of TLAs, the branchwraith and a unit of Dryads starting near a wyldwood set up roughly equidistant between the left and centre objective. The Treelord and remaining Dryads sat in reserve. The downside to a low drop army is that your opponent can deploy to counter you. While a lot of my list started in reserve, my plan was fairly transparent from the outset. My opponent deployed his KoS, a unit of six fiends, some daemonettes and the Contorted Epitome against the centre objective and the rest of his army against the objective to my left, and reserved a single cheap hero (I didn’t even notice what it was) for the uncontested objective. Turn 1: To hold the centre objective long enough, I decided that I needed to devote a TLA and a Treelord together with the bulk of the Dryads (20 and 10). I got the two Wyldwoods and moved everything in as planned. The branchwraith did her thing and summoned a reserve unit of Dryads. Easy 2:0 lead to me His solo hero failed to run into the objective, ending an inch short of control. The rest of his army moved and charged their target objectives. The centre mob began to chew through Dryads while the group to my left (the Masque, a Viceleader and a host of daemonettes) was less effective but still made some progress. Dryads in a forest under The Earth Defends (from Gnarlroot) are superb tarpits. Sadly, my Treelord took six Fiends to the face thanks to the KoS command ability letting them attack through the gap in my dryad bubble. He landed four of the d6 damage tail attacks. Ouch. But he failed to score, still 2:0. Turn 2: my centre TLA was miraculously unharmed, having kept out of 3” range of all enemies - I didn’t want them to engage any sooner than necessary. I went through the motions moving the previous turn summoned Dryads up to support the solo TLA on foot, summoning more Dryads and allowing engaged Dryads and the solo TLA to fight. Many more daemonettes died, a few other things took wounds, and a slew of Dryads died in retaliation leaving me with three or four in each location, plus those on the move. But I secured both objectives to go 6:0 up. His turn he made a crucial error, having his fiends attack my TLA and killing it. This left him unable to take that objective on that turn. With hindsight he wished he had let the KoS take that particular scalp. Combat on the other objective was equally harrowing - Dryads kept the daemonettes at bay but my TLA took multiple wounds from the two Slaanesh heroes that had broken the lines. By the end he still only scored 1 VP from the uncontested objective for 6:1. Turn 3 was a bit of a blur. Dryads arrived at my remaining objective (more summoned behind them). I got lucky with Gnarlroot rerolls and landed a few more attacks than I was expecting to kill remaining daemonettes and the Viceleader (which had been hurt but not killed previously) but the TLA was reduced to attacking at the end of the combat phase and only just squeaked through with a single wound left after the Masque attacked. I got very lucky with a 6 to hit on the Impaling Talon, rolled 4 Mortals and he only reflex saved 1, which was just enough to kill the Masque. I ended up with a TLA on his last legs holding the objective to take me to 9:1 and two 10 dryad units between me and his blob. His turn 3, he brought the score to 9:4 and we did some quick maths. I had enough staggered groups of Dryads between him and my TLA to prevent him from reaching me easily, and he lacked line of sight to cast spells at the TLA (an error in my placement really - it would also have prevented me from casting healing spells between objectives had I had anyone alive left to cast them). It was theoretically possible for him to take my objective on the fifth turn, but I rolled for first turn again on turn 4 allowing me to prepare, so we concluded that the likely outcome would be 18:16 in my favour. Plus it was late. Conclusions: 1) I find defensive games really tedious and would hope never to play one like that again. 2) my choice of which TLA to place where was fundamentally flawed. I should have had the healer solo to hold the longer term objective. I didn’t really consider that until it was too late. Thinking things like that through more carefully is my ongoing development challenge. 3) my opponent did make a critical error killing my TLA with fiends Turn 2 and preventing him from scoring the centre objective a turn earlier. That cost him 4 VPs by the end. Conversely, I’m not convinced that his KoS was in a position to kill the TLA anyway - it had a token screen of Dryads to deal with first and dice can be unreliable. 4) Gnarlroot is a solid glade, with the emphasis on solid. 5) My opponent would like to note that Dryads are the worst tar pit unit he has faced even after the new battletome changes and he no longer considers Kurnoth Hunters to be the worst thing in our faction. Overall, it felt like a dirty win, but one that I achieved against the odds and largely according to a plan, so I’ll take it.

None of them work as well outside of Sylvaneth, but if you must have one then probably Durthu. The standard Treelord is probably still overpriced for the same 200 points as the Kurnoth Hunters. But might be valid if you are wary of total ally costs. The Ancient has a lot of abilities based around Wyldwoods which won’t work well alongside non-Sylvaneth, unless you particularly enjoy blocking LoS for your wanderers and introducing terrain which will try to kill them. Durthu is the most expensive at 340 points, but is otherwise a fairly uncomplicated beat stick who does well for the points in faction and only loses some of that outside.

That’s not our only three drop list. It’s not even our only viable three drop list. You can run Lords of the Clan and Forest Folk together taking you to a minimum of 1380 points. That still leaves enough to buy a unit of 6 Scythe Hunters (total 1780), increase a unit of Dryads to 20 models (1880) leaving you 120 points to play with. Make the large dryad unit 30 models for 70 and either buy another command point or snag an endless spell. Or spend the whole lot on spells if you prefer. Looks like it has potential in Gnarlroot if nothing else.

A question for the assembled Sylvaneth devotees - what would you take, or not take, in a 1500 list playing Places of Arcane Power against a 1700 Slaanesh list? Our resident Chaos player has recently unveiled his new Slaanesh army and I’ve not yet had the displeasure. I know they play merry hell with combat order, and they seem to be able to summon things back as fast as you can kill them. But any more substantive pointers would be most welcome.

There was explicit designers faq on the old battletome which said that you could teleport out of combat and still charge. By teleporting you avoid the need to actually retreat. There is no reason to think this has changed

If I understand the question... The trees from the old citadel wood scenery still go where they belong on that base. You use the entire “plate” as it is and that includes the trees in the middle. That the new Wyldwood models have the trees at the edge doesn’t change this.

Drycha can be buffed with a Winterleaf, she just can’t benefit from being the general. She still benefits from the exploding 6s (only the original gives a mortal wound, the second hit just rolls to wound as normal) and she can absolutely benefit from the Frozen Kernel. Make the Arch rev the general and give her the Kernel, then let Drycha go to town. The advantage of the TLA is the guaranteed wyldwood and being slightly tougher. But Drycha is a better killing machine by far.

I played a game last week as part of an ongoing Firestorm campaign that we never got round to playing in 1E. Due to people being away over the summer, this was the first campaign game where I was using the new book. I knew going in that I would be playing Total Commitment against a local FEC player with a fondness for Crypt Flayers, so terrain and mobility would be a problem for me but not for him. For the first time in the campaign, I was playing a full 2000 points (several previous games I had been 300-400 points down on my opponents, and the last time I faced this FEC army he was on 1700 to my 1300 point list) do took the following: Winterleaf glade Outcasts Alarielle - Throne of vines Drycha - Regrowth Arch revenant - General, Frozen kernel Branchwraith - Vesperal Gem, Verdurous Harmony Branchwraith - Verdurous Harmony 3x 5 Spite Revenants 6x Kurnoths Hunters with scythes Spiteswarm Hive Gladewyrm My plan was to cover one objective with Drycha and the spites, using spites to screen Drycha while she used her ranged attack, until she was ready to pile into combat. Alarielle would fly out to pressure the least defended enemy objective, summon whatever was necessary to take and hold it and plan from there. The hunters would start central but teleport wherever necessary to support Drycha or Alarielle, or simply defend their home objective of the fight came to them. The arch rev could fly fast enough to provide the Kernel in most places, one wraith would support the hunters and the other would summon Dryads as usual He took a court-free FEC list with something like this: Crypt Flayer Courtier - general Ghoul king on Terrorgheist Abhorrant Archregent 12x Crypt Flayers 3x Crypt Flayers 3x Crypt Flayers Plus a few spells He deployed the Terrorgheist on his left flank with the two smaller units of CFs threatening my forward objective. His other leaders camped out in his central objective with the blob of 12 CFs. He left his forward objective (his right and my left) undefended. I had my free wyldwood just my side of the angled territory line in the centre and blocking my central objective. Drycha and the spites to my right covering the objective facing his Terrorgheist, hunters and smaller leaders to the centre behind the wyldwood and Alarielle close but a little to the left. He took first turn to complete his deployment. He summoned another small unit of CFs to cover the exposed objective and a Varghoul to support his leader blob in the centre. He failed to cast/I unbound his key movement buff spells so he wasn’t confident he could get early charges into my line and settled for shuffling things forward in the centre and on his left (small CF units screening the Terrorgheist). He scored 2 vps from objectives. My first turn Drycha summoned a wyldwood in front of the Terrorgheist/CF block and Alarielle summoned the Hive in buff range of the hunters and all the small leaders, buffing all but one branchwraith . I also got the Gladewyrm out and just had the range to attack his front line, inflicting a single wound on the 12 CF block. Spites advances to cover my right flank and Drycha edged into shooting range and rolled poorly to inflict 2 wounds on a CF unit. Hunters teleported to the new wood while Alarielle flew over to just outside range of his objective to my right and summoned 3 sword hunters to threaten the 3 CFs there. The arch Rev ran an astonishing 19” to keep the scythe Hunters in range of the Kernel and the Hunters charged into the Terrorgheist/CF blob. Under the arch rev buff and frozen kernel, they munched happily through all six CFs and the Terrorgheist without retaliation. I score my own objectives to bring the score to 2:2. He won the roll for first turn and decided the scythe hunters were too big a threat to ignore. Lots of moving, shooting and charging happened with the big CF block, and the various leaders behind them followed for mutual support. Thanks to Ferocious Hunger and his FEC command ability to have the 12 CFs pile in and attack twice (We get it as a single use artefact, he has it as a free command ability) all of my scythe hunters died. But only just - I think he had only one more wound than he needed to kill the last hunter. He took the view that Alarielle plus sword hunters would kill his other flank so had charged to get at least some damage in there too but the sword hunters attacked first and killed the CFs before they got a chance. As one hunter was just in range of the objective, he only scored for his central objective to go 3:2 up. My second turn I spotted an opportunity. To support the 12 hunter blob, he had moved the Crypt Flayer Courtier and the Varghulf away from the objective, with the Abhorrant Archregent only just in range of it behind some scenery to the right from my perspective. Alarielle cast Throne of Vines then summoned a new Wyldwood on the left side then moved to get a clear shot at the Archregent, inflicting 4 wounds. After some other generic spell casting (one wraith summoned Dryads) Drycha teleported to the new wood, just in range of the objective on the opposite side from the Archregent and shot him to take control. Other stuff moved about a bit. Still holding both of my objectives and now both of his, I went 10:3 up. He won first turn again, moved his blob to kill Drycha and retake his rear objective to go 10:4, but there was nothing he could do to stop me going 15:4 on my turn. He agreed that his CF blob couldn’t cover both of his objectives and take mine even if they did run down Alarielle (which was unlikely in itself) so there was no way he could realistically do more than maintain the gap. We called it after three turns. Overall, I think he struggled having so much invested in such a huge unit of Crypt Flayers, but he had planned to have multiple small units and a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist as well, so removing those was definitely the right play. He felt that in an indefinitely long game his blob would have caught Alarielle and been unstoppable. My only response was that the game isn’t indefinitely long, and he certainly couldn’t win in 5 turns. He was also surprised that I “threw away” Drycha so easily, but for the 3 points and fixing him to deal with her that seemed obvious. Overall thoughts are that stacking buffs on the Hunters is incredible. 6 scythes with an extra attack, rerolling 1s, with the Kernel is so absurdly good that I’ll struggle not to include it in every list. Exploding 6s from a Winterleaf were nice too, but definitely overkill in this case. Alarielle absolutely still has a place. Her mobility is fantastic when Wyldwood teleports are more limited, and summoning after her move helps open up new fronts. Next up, I’m facing the Slaanesh army that is currently in the lead. Any advice on facing them is most welcome. I’m currently thinking of a lot of Treelord types to offset their ability to make me attack last, plus some more ranged attack options. Thoughts?

That has been exactly my experience. The wyrm has limited offensive or healing value given the random roll, but it makes a nice 30 point filler and works well as a “safe” base blocker. The real star of the faction spells is the hive.

That’s more possible with a single strong model like Durthu, and Alarielle with her fat base. It’s far less likely with a unit of hunters. Even if you don’t remove all of the blocking unit then you probably move enough to get some of your hunters past to the high value target while the others mop up survivors. if you don’t think you can remove enough of the screen on the first attack then that’s the scenario I mentioned - just don’t bother using the Kernel in that situation. And consider letting you opponent block himself in behind that infantry blob. But mostly this just boils down to the fact that tactics on the table will need to take things into account. Any ability or artefact can be countered by a good player. There is nothing special about the Kernel in that.

Potentially, yes. But if you can keep their prime targets away from key positions out of fear of the Kernel then that’s still useful. If they put up a blocking screen then you aren’t obliged to chew through it. I’ve had successful games where I looked at a blob of chaff infantry and just decided to ignore it so my opponent then had the pain of blocking himself