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WinnerDave

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    AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion

    in Death

    Posted · Edited by WinnerDave

    I feel the need to share a beautiful moment from last night's game against a Tzeentch army.  Battle for my Ass, block of 40 lowly skellies protecting one of the flank objectives get charged from a very confident block of 20 Tzaangors.  My Skellies got to fight first because of other combat priorities.  Managed to kill 11 of the Tzaangors and took a half dozen casualties in return.  With no command point to inspire them, the remaining 9 ran from battle shock thanks to the -2 bravery debuff.

    I lost the game because Vhor-daddy got took a full screamer charge to the face and my goodness TZ is a fast army, but the above incident was so very satisfying.

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    AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion

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    Posted

    57 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

    I've managed to roll some dice during the weekend - a very small tournament divided in non-interacting "clusters" of 4 people each. Probably the way forward, until we get rid of the Plague... a discussion for another day, perhaps; for now, I am just massively grateful to the TO who persevered and made it happen - legend.

    Anyway, Legion of Blood. Three games in (two major losses, one major win) I thought I share with you a few thoughts.

    The Games

    • The List: VLoZD (general, Aura of Dark majesty, Orb, Pinions), Vhordrai (Vile Transference), Necromancer (Overwhelming Dread); three units of 5 dogs, 2 units of 5 Blood Knights, 20 Reapers, cheeky Bat Swarms (2000 pts on the nose).
    • Game 1 [against Khorne, 4 units of 6 Bloodcrushers and a Deamon Prince, Startstrike] - Very, very, very close. We run out of time and played it out quickly - made a couple of silly mistakes (I blame the hurry, but really I can only blame myself) and lost it by a couple of points. The tools were there - no question, the problem was that in two different occasions my opponent will have tabled me if he did get the double turn (which I consistently negated to him throughout the game).
    • Game 2 [against Deepkin, you know which list, Total Conquest] - tabled in turn 3, classic. I genuinely did what I could, but I have only that many screens against stuff that flies (which flies itself some 16" and then charges in your face). The tools were not there, but the same holds for most factions out there against eels anyway. It could have been a different game if I had won the priority for turn 3, but hey - that's Deepkin, that's always the case.
    • Game 3 [against Bonereapers, Katakros, two Crawlers, 10,10 and 40 Mortek Guard, The Better Part of Valour]. With this one I had the opportunity to keep my battle line (the dogs) in the grave until I managed to delete the two small units of Mortek Guard (the 40-man one... no point), and at that point the points were in my favour. Definitely a good battleplan for this list (very fast, can delete things quickly if no screens are around)

    The Units

    • The dogs are amazing - so much utility for 70 points... they win games, those furry buggers.
    • Vhordrai... it is a terrific distraction and when it connects (it needs his spell off, otherwise it can and will bounce and a 7 to cast is not great) it's mayhem, but... I don't know, guys. I know I claimed that given the latest points drop The Prince is now a viable option, and he is, but maybe another VLoZD is equally good - and I need those 20 pts more for my next list (to squeeze in a Coven Throne!). His command ability, while amazing on paper, it's really hard to use in an objective game -if you have two dragons in one place, chances are you are doing something wrong.
    • The Necromancer is virtually useless. Yes, his spells are great, but he is very slow, he can't keep up with the Reapers - which you should always suicide in turn 1 and get back in turn 2, that's how you change the tide, they loose points you don't , easy as that. He also dies very quickly and it's 130 points. He's going, the Reapers are largely self-sufficient and are not meant to do a ton of damage or to stick around for very long.
    • The bats are great for what they do, but a -1 to hit is not going to do miracles against a shooting list - 80 pts... again, not sure.
    • Blood knights are phenomenal, if very difficult to manoeuvre. I think that a blood knights-based list (6 units of 5?) would be competitive, I just can't bring myself to convert more than the 10 I have at the moment.

    The issues

    • Cover. AoS is very loose in terms of terrain, and in most cases we don't get any practical opportunity to get our units in cover - something we desperately need with e.g. Blood Knights
    • Drops. Being consistently out-dropped  is a problem, as if you try to mitigate the double turn you loose a ton of damage potential. Solutions? Perhaps Castellans of the Crimson Keep really is the way to go, although you pay quite a few points for that and most factions still have much better options to go down to 2-4 drops. 

    That's it. Comments/suggestions welcome - I know that the hopes for a new Soulblight battle tome are on the rise, but let's work with the tools at our disposal for the time being... any thoughts?

    Hey mate, I was the other LoB player there, was hoping to grab a chat, but a) there wasn't much time and b) we were told not to :)

    Ha ha oh well, next time you're in Poole/B'mouth we'll have to swap notes. 

    Take it easy mate.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    If you are looking for the actual reference

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ Core Rules Designer's Commentary Page 9

    Q: Some abilities and spells, etc, allow me to return slain models to one of my units. Could you explain how these models are set up?

    A: Set up the models one at a time within 1" of a model from the unit they are returning to – this can be a model you returned to the unit earlier in the same phase. The slain models you return to a unit can only be set up within 3" of an enemy unit if one or more models from the unit they are returning to are already within 3" of that enemy unit.

     

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, VonSmall said:

    How does everyone go about keeping the big man (Nagash) alive during games whilst making the most of him points wise?

     

    You don't, you moan about how overcosted in LoN he is to your opponent, then you laugh together because he's not even costed appropriately for Petrifex Elite anymore.  Then back to moaning because you HAVE to have him as your general so you've got to keep him back for summoning duties.

    Personally I've not had too much luck with him.  Occasionally the Nagatling Gun will pull out something amazing and decimate a horde of somethings and you'll remember that Grots have a bravery of 4 so yes you can actually use soul stealer for once.  The best I've managed from him, is using a regular Vampire Lord to give him +1A and also using Supreme Lord of Death to get the re-roll 1s, but that's 2 command points.  It was also a scenario with 1 or 2 objectives, any mission with a handful of objectives that require us to spread out...that's tough.

    However...I've not been using ghosties up till now.  So my screens of Skeletons/Dire Wolves have been not challenging enough to fight through.  I've caved and bought 30 Grimghast Reapers, which I'm hoping will turn the tide.  Although I'm eyeing up Legion of Blood and basically sticking snuggles in the display cabinet until he drops a few points.

    Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear, perhaps someone has a more positive point of view.

    • Like 3

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted · Edited by WinnerDave

    So, I was playing Starstrike in a tournament and as you don't know where the objectives are going to be I strung all 4 gravesite along the mid way line so I could move towards where ever the objectives arrived.  I spent most of the game then berating myself for such stupid taking the risk and not giving myself a "safety" GS.  Especially when I got down to 2 models left (Nagah and a Wight King), somehow I managed to 'hand of dust' through the spell portal and broke a unit's coherency, then Nagatling Gun & Shoot & Fight  the far right GS clear.  Survived the next turn (we're talking major Hail Mary stuff here) and summoned back 20 GraveGuard,  10 Black Knights and 5 Dire Wolves. 

    Despite what on paper looked like a terrible use of GSs...appeared to be a stroke of genius.  I wouldn't recommend it though :D

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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    Posted

    6 hours ago, VonSmall said:

    Quick question - where do people tend to put their gravesites? I was thinking about creating a sort of 12" square on the board with them to create lots of overlapping areas for healing units.

    Interested to hear what others do!

    I always start with my "safety" gravesite.  It's my last line of defence in case everything has gone poo.

    I typically consider the objectives next.  I want the opportunity to summon a unit such that it's within objective grabbing range.  (Throughout the game occasionally measure distance between objective and gravesite, whilst mumbling incoherently under your breath for added effect)

    Once I've done that, I pretty, much end up  with something similar to what Honk drew.

    I've been using a flying VL with various speed up buffs recently, it's quite fun when he covers half the board and summons back some DireWolves to threaten an objective.  I've over played my hand though, most of my regular (which are very few atm) know my tricks and are ready for it.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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    Posted

    8 hours ago, Sception said:

    The existance and continued release of factions like Skaven, Cities of Sigmar, and Seraphon tell me it's safe to think that Legions of Nagash aren't going anywhere any time soon.  They may not be the future of AoS, but they're definitely part of the game's present, and that present will be with us for quire a while, IMO.

    Nicely put.  CoS defintely gives me a glimmer of hope for LoN.  I know one YouTuber (i forget who exactly) did a wish list for LoN a couple of weeks back and wished for a CoS style book that encompasses death.

    Ironically after saying "I don't feel the urge to try and improve my list by parting with money for more units." above, my brain. then decided to figure out a slight tweak to my list, which as luck would have only requires me to buy 1 unit.  And that's how they get ya :)

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    I feel very sad for LoN. Despite three amazing games at the weekend (won 2 lost 1 because I made a stupid mistake), I don't feel the urge to try and improve my list by parting with money for more units.  I'm moving to Skaven, but will continue to play LoN until the skaven are painted and ready to go.  Then my skeleton horde will probably sit on the shelf. :(

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    1 hour ago, 123lac said:

    Oof, last post May 17.

    Dead battletome? :(

    Pretty much, then again I like using stuff no-one else is running.  If I were starting from scratch, then I'd pick a newer, hotter BT.  Typically for me I started LoN just before OBR dropped, but I decided to see it through.  Loads of opponents were very worried when I used to use Nagash...they'd say things like "I thought Nagash could <insert thing here>" and I'd reply "Yeah, he can in an OBR army".  Now i've stopped using Nagash and started using Prince Vhordrai the army is performing quite well, but if I face a newer BT then it can feel like a one sided fight.

    Were you thinking of starting LoN?

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    @lare2 Not convinced about he balewind vortex...what's the plan there?

    My go to spells for Naggy are Overwhelming Dread, Fading Vigour and Amethystine Pinions. 

    Hand of dust through the Spell Portal is amazing when it works, especially if you "pick" out a middle model from a strung out unit so they lose half their unit due to lack of coherency, however, Fading Vigour or Overwhelming Dread is far more reliable and depending on what your opponent is running can have a real significant impact, especially when the beautiful natural 10 pops up.  "Yes, yes you are -2 Attacks...if you make the charge, and yes it does last until my next hero phase...sorry"

     

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Jaskier said:

    Don't forget an Umbral Spellportal! Even if you aren't too good at snatching souls with Hand of Dust, the sheer threat range usually has a psychological impact on most opponents, making them question their moves and where to position their heroes (especially the expensive ones!) I also recommend a block of either 40 Chainrasps or 40 Skeletons as a cheap way to add extra bodies (which a Nagash list really wants.) 

    Interestingly I've just dropped the USP from my list in favour of upping my Grave Guard from 10 to 20.  Not convinced by this move, but I want to try it for a bit.

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Ghiggio said:

    Hey guys, what do you think that is the best way to run a list with Nagash for competitive tournaments ?

    Start by adding a block of 30 Grimghast Reapers, then go from there.  It's not my cup of tea, but I'm not too fussed about being considered competitive.

    Or switch to OBR.

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    If you scroll back 1 page, you'll see I asked this question and the response was that you can place the models that fit and destroy the rest.  From the core rules

    On 10/30/2019 at 10:55 AM, Platypus said:

    From the Core Rules, page 1: "Sometimes there will not be enough room to set up all of the models from a unit. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been slain."

    So you set up as many as you can fit.

     

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    Have you seen Tony Moore's list that he used to win the Mancunian Carnage?

    Saddens me that i'd probably have to add Ghosties to make a competitive list.  I've always liked the idea of Skeleton hordes, but I'm struggling to get any wins.  My opponents tend to be quite adept at staying outside of Nagatling gun range.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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    Posted

    Hi Boneheart,

    Not been playing GHoN all that long myself, but FWIW...

    I think we're using an relatively older battletome (FEB 2018 I believe) which thanks to the most recent GHB has seen a few points increases mostly due to a fairly powerful Nagash list that was popular at tournaments.  At 1000ish point games those increases are going to hurt a lot, I think you're playing AoS on hard mode, which should ease when you hit the 2000pt level and you can start using some big boys (Nagash, VLoZD, Mortarchs, etc).

    Couple of questions for you

    1) What was your list against Ironjawz?

    2) Did you remember to attempt to unbind Hand of Gork?  (I got caught out by this once, thinking it was an ability not a spell)

    3) Did you re-summon your GG using Endless Legions? (Opponents always weep salty tears when you re-summon a unit that they just killed)

    4) What artefact are you using? (So far I've always used the Ossific diadem, again opponents tend to go red faced when you roll your death saves, then pick the fails up and roll again to make some OD saves...beautiful)

    5) Sounds like you were unlucky to lose all those Grave Guard have you taken shields or the Dbl handed blades.

    6) Don't worry about your losses, what's the future got in store 880 pts for Nagash?  VLoZD?

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Honk said:

    Read before you throw BS out there...

    *shame *shame *shame

    and a bit of sadness, that’s kinda ruining Nagash for LoN, just too expensive there.

    but it still sounds pretty crazy for obr   

    I suspect there's already and FAQ in the works to sort that out, as it'd be weird if they can heal each other in OBR but unable to in GHoN.  That said, my limited experience so far, is that if my opponent can get something into combat with Nagash/Arkhan they get squished.  Nagash took a "Bloodthirster" to the face in my first game and Arkhan got wiped off the board by an "Aspect of the Storm" in my most recent game.  I've got to get better at screening to prevent that from happening in future games.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Dongilles said:

    With the changes to Nagash, I am reading alot about an Arcane Bolt spam but I cant find the rule that he can cast Arcane Bolt multible times.

    Can someone please explain the spam to me? 

    From the Warscroll

    "Alakanash, the Staff of Power: This staff is capped with gems of purest Shyishan realmstone. Add the Staff of Power value shown on this model’s damage table to casting, dispelling and unbinding rolls for this model. In addition, this model can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield any number of times in the same hero phase, even if another Wizard has already attempted to cast the spell in that phase."

    Best thing for me as a noobie to GHoN, it made the hero phase super quick.  Before that the hero phase took ages as I tried to figure out which combo of spells to attempt.  8 Arcane bolts into a unit of eels, salty tears were shed ;)

    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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    Posted

    28 minutes ago, Honk said:

    but, what I like even more about the new scrolls is the new invocation wording giving him the option to heal themselves. Arkhan and Nagash could Tag-Team heal 6 wounds per round to each other...that will teach your opponent,

    "At the start of your hero phase, if this model is on the battlefield you can pick up to 5 different friendly Summonable units or friendly Ossiarch Bonereapers units in any combination. For each of those units, you can either heal up to 3 wounds that have been allocated to that unit or, if no wounds have been allocated to it, you can return a number of slain models to that unit with a combined Wounds characteristic of 3 or less."

    I don't think they can heal each other unless you're running OBR.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

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    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Platypus said:

    From the Core Rules, page 1: "Sometimes there will not be enough room to set up all of the models from a unit. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been slain."

    So you set up as many as you can fit.

    Interesting, thanks mate.

    I do find it odd that it's spelled out in "The Unquiet Dead" but not so for "Endless Legions"

    Good to know I can fall back on the core rules when/if it comes up.

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    AoS 2 - Grand Host of Nagash Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    Hello all, despite the OBR love at the moment I recently went with GHoN.  3 games played so far.  Loving the arcane bolt spam that Nagash and Arkhan can throw out there. 

    Anyway I have a question about the Endless Legions command ability.  Let's imagine I lost my big blob of 40 skeletons, I want to bring them back using Endless Legions, so I've got to squeeze all 40 into a 9" bubble (okay that's a big bubble).  However, if I can't fit all 40 in because my opponent has been clever enough to get near my gravesites, can I bring on less than 40 or is it an "all or nothing" ability?

    Thanks for your help

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