Coolwood
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Posts posted by Coolwood
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Anyone got any ideas for chosen conversions? I was thinking of using deathshroud terminators and then converting them to get rid of the 40k stuff potentially. Any thoughts?
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I feel like warriors just got better value with the amount of mortal wound output tzeentch can kick out along with the shooting from KO. Warriors are going to be able to stand up to that punishment far more than marauders in my view.
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5 hours ago, mmimzie said:
This is more explained by the fact that a new guy wrote the book to my understanding and didn't do discounts and wasn't fussed with mixing weapons, which is why marauders are also listed this way.
Even GW can’t be that inept and let that happen. Don’t believe that somehow
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It make sense and explains why the max unit discounts have been removed
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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:
Has someone plaid Archaon at 800pts since battletome dropped? Successfully?
I have used him yeah. He pretty much walked through a slaanesh army by himself along with my 40 marauders. His damage potential is quite a lot higher now with the additional rend and the + to hit on dhorgar.
Still need to work out if he is actually worth the 800 points now - the death frenzy command ability is also really useful especially on marauders
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Hey guys, what are we thinking to the new lord on karkadrak? 250 seems quite steep for him competitively in my view. Anyone got any build ideas apart from the obvious - lots of knights?
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What do we think about dates for the next preview then? I reckon they might leave it a few weeks now, especially if it is going to be a mid December release
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5 hours ago, l1censetochill said:
Only quoted the first list but wanted to comment on all the others - much as I was interested in the heated (and still ongoing) debate about Longstrike range, hopefully some list discussion and dissection can turn things in a more productive direction, as it's starting to feel like everyone is just talking in circles.
My first question on the lists you're proposing is: what Stormhost are you planning on running, and how do you envision the list working? I'm still a relative newbie compared to some here, but I feel like the list is trying to do too much of everything, and as a result is lacking focus. You've got the Templar and Desolators, which are good mobile anvils that are quite killy, but not good enough to win games without serious support. You've got some shooting from Judicators and Longstrikes, but not enough to make a real dent in enemy armies, and Judicators just don't seem like they do enough for their points period. Aetherwings are only really useful when you want to protect a big unit of Longstrikes, but will be pretty useless standing next to 3. And you've got the Incantor with Dais Arcanum and Maelstrom, which feel like they're just tacked on for points. The Incantor is useful, but pretty much only for the auto-unbind. On their own, they're not a good enough spellcaster to make endless spells worth it unless you're taking Everblaze Comet and deploying them out of unbind range. And even then, you're not going to have a magic phase that can compete with any of the real casting-heavy army.
And that's how I'd view this list - probably fun, and might steal a game or two, but instead of trying to do a little bit of everything and ending up mediocre, it's better to commit fully to one thing and build around it. If you want the Stardrake and some Dracoths on the board, I'd look at one of the following lists instead:
*****
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Relictor (100)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Units
2 x Concussors (240)
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (680)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103*****
This one is simple - the Templar is a pure distraction Carnifex that you buff with the Castellant and hurl across the table at the opponent, forcing them to deal with it. The Concussors serve a similar purpose and can go in with the Templar or do their own thing, slowly chewing through units while disrupting pile-ins and pinning units were possible. The rest of the list is standard Shootcast - shoot twice with the Longstrikes every turn and hope you take off enough models to get the win. Probably not as efficient as a list that replaces the Templar, 3 Longstrikes and the Concussors with an Azyros and 6 Desolators, but it could still work... and while it's probably an edge case that you're unlikely to use due to generating only 1CP per turn, I like the idea of using the Anvils command ability on the Stardrake to let it pile in and swallow 3 extra dudes during the hero phase. Just for funsies.
I tried to come up with another army more focused on the Stardake and Desolator synergy, and came up with the following:
*****
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Units
6 x Desolators (600)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99*****
I feel a lot less confident in this one, but it's what I came up with. Basically, your Stardrake and Desolators in this list, powered up with the Lord-Celestant's command ability and Staunch Defender, are actually pretty scary, so they can take up central position, spit mortal wounds at range, threaten objectives and dare the opponent to charge them. If you need to split them up, the Desolators can still get to a 2+ save with the Castellant's lantern. The Raptors with Hurricanes are there to deepstrike into positions and shoot down screens/thin out hordes for the big boys. I'd usually prefer to use Ballistas for this purpose, but points are already very tight in this list and you're always going to be so light on bodies due to the Stardrake + Desolators that I felt the Hurricane Raptors made more sense.
Hope these list ideas help, or at least inspire some thought/discussion. I definitely don't think they're great or super-competitive, but in a list where we definitely want to take the Stardrake and some Dracoths they're the best I could come up with in, like, 40 minutes of brainstorming while half-watching Netflix. Would love to hear other peoples' thoughts - "listbuilding challenges" like this where we're forcing ourselves to take certain off-meta units and make the most of them are some of my favorite things to think about in AOS!
I have tried and failed to make any decent lists with the drake - it’s quite frustrating. One idea I had was to run a ballista core alongside it but then that leaves you with barely any units to take objectives.
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Can we agree to move on now, it’s got boring just watching this go round in circles for days on end. It’s literally a pointless discussion how it is now and we are just wasting energy on something that does not matter. Accept there are differing opinions and can we move on please....
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2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:
I'm assuming you won the side roll. Which is not usually done (50%). Second, the boat near you is set badly. Should be parallel to the long hedge. Third if he happers with scryer left hedge, run with 2 wheels units to objective, charge liberators, shock them to death, pail in with one unit, he will luckily kill half evocators and engage raptors. With it he starts scoring in the middle.
Why azyros is on the floor???
In my opinion i would have set evos and raptor behind 4". In this situation having 6 desolators would have been better, because they wont suffer much rend -2.
Anyway, in general anvilstrike is pretty easy to use if you understand it. You don't set stuff in air and you set up in order to hit turn one something. Because if not they let you start and if relicotor can't move you are done if they double turn.
About matchup, i agree on the fact that you suffer hard magic list. I think Tzeench/Sylva (also supposing cities), but never tryed against them cause of they unpopularity. The problem on that is that you can set your list to be better against deepstrike or better against magic. Like me, i had incantors and 1 birds. But you can use 2 birds and 1 incantor depending on the meta you think there is.
Read the report. Congrats first, second I agree in most of the points. Last tournament i had 1 spellweaver and 1 incantor, but it was a bad choice. I should have done 2x incantors. Also the second predatory spell could be very usefull, cause when i've been setting up geminds i had the game. (I let even the opponent the turn to move geminds). That is a game changing stuff.
Places of arcane power is s bit unbalanced. I've lost there against dok cause they won initiative and scored the second time (3 first turn, 4 second turn. Game over).
Tbh I think you are just arguing for the sake of it now. @PJetski has provided very clear explanations of how to use that deployment and the birds to good effect to counter pretty much every scenario and army in the current meta.
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Hes good in the right list - i tend to run him with staunch and ignax scales making him extremely difficult to kill with the right support.
List i am going to try is:
LCoSD - 560
Castellent - 120
Ordinator - 140
Relictor - 100 (Translocation)
Libs 3x5 - 300
Ballista x3 - 330
Evocators x10 - 440
Not sue if it will be incredible but seems fairly solid in my head haha
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Having had some time to think a bit more about the list i posted - I'm not sure i like the idea of alpha strike/gav bomb due to the inherent risks of it going wrong and also it clearly doesn't work in the current meta. I do find list building with stormcast very difficult at the moment i have to admit - beyond the desolator or anvil strike lists i really struggle to come up with anything that feels like its viable. I find myself trying to build a TAC list even though i know that this list doesn't really work in the current meta
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Hey all
Been thinking about how to make a competitive hammers list using gavriel. This is what I have come up with so far - what do people think?
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Hi Chaps
I have a tournament coming up at the end of the month and I am thinking of taking the following list:
Slaughterhost - Reapers of Vengence
Archaon - 660
Bloodstoker - 80
Secrator - 140
Priest (Bronzed flesh) - 100
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (Crimson Crown, Mage Eater) - 300
Bloodreavers 2x10 - 140
Bloodletters x30 - 300
Varanguard - 260
Total - 1980
I know the Varanguard aren't optimal at all, but as they are my favourite unit in the game i would love to take them with me - plus Archaon actually makes them half decent.
The general plan is to use Archaon to wreck face with all the buffs and have the thirster shenanigans to get round FEC and Slaanesh rubbish with the letters and Varanguard backing them up.
Interested to hear peoples feedback and thoughts on viability etc
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13 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:
So 6 Desolators vs 6 Dracoline Evocators. Which is best now?
If you go back a few pages there’s a good debate on that very subject. Basically it depends on which Stormhost and play style you prefer.
Feels like both are viable choices depending on how you support them - personally I’m in the desolators camp due to better defence and chip damage potential
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8 hours ago, Dayman85 said:
SCE are actually really good at most things, we just don't do particularly well at any one thing, (except shooting I would say) but we're pretty decent at everything so it's hard to say this army is bad on paper. This statement took me a long time to figure out; and I felt the same way you do now for a very long time. We have units that are mobile, we have units that are tanky, we have shooting units, we have magic units that are okay. The problem is the current meta is very mortal wound heavy, and we fold like paper to mortal wounds.....which can make us feel weak (looking at you gristlegore). The thing I've noticed though; is that we can dish out some serious mortal ourselves to combat other army's mortals. Between the comet, stardrake and vanguard raptors you can snipe most heroes while they're far enough away to not have them be an immediate threat to your army. Then in later turns when those threats are gone we make are move and take board control. The guard units coming down as well as vanguard just upped our mobility and mortal output even more imo.
I don't think there's much that GW could do to make us even stronger than we already are; the variety we have already is pretty crazy.... Look at lord relictor, he's 100 points, he can heal d3, or he can deal d3 and -1 to hit. You can have him bless weapons to give 2 hits on 6s or translocate to teleport somebody 24"; he costs 100 pts and can legit do soo much for his price tag.
I went months thinking that using bless weapons was the way to go and have since used translocate. I've probably won over a dozen games off that small change alone. You can really pigeonhole yourself into one specific type of play; if you havent yet, just make sure you try everything out. Our army is not straight forward unfortunately and that type of playstyle doesn't suit everyone.
My point is, with the amount of variety these units have; it's hard to balance one specific type of play. You can make an SCE list to pretty much counter anything you want it to, fighting gristlegore? Go full shooting. Fighting Dok? Roll with a higher block of sequitors, staunch defender, azerite Halo and castellant and you'll reflect more mortal wounds then wounds you take. The problem for us is "all comers list" tend to be more of a dime a dozen because we are going to fall short in one facet of the game. Other armies can't make a list to combat whatever they would like; they face hard counters and that's that. We can adapt pretty easily list wise to what we're fighting against most in the meta and imo that's what makes me happy when I think of my army of golden Bois. We're versatile. Adaptable. And obviously..... Badass. 😎
Completely on board with this!
Yes tournament statistics on the whole may look like we are struggling but it’s going to be skewed by how many people play stormcast and, assuming they might be newer tournament gamers, won’t be winning all their games.
Im no tournament player and would not class myself as a good player but I see a lot of tournament lists are still taking the same stuff and tactics that haven’t been working for a while now in the current meta, and it’s only the ones who have innovated (Pjetski for example) who seem to be able to pick up consistent wins against the current “big bois” of the scene. There’s probably a lesson in that somewhere for a lot of us 🤔.
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This argument resurfaces every few pages and it seems pretty futile. Surely we would be better to focus our efforts on coming up with new ideas for stormcast lists and bouncing ideas around generally. Negativity will get us no where I feel.
There are plenty of other armies to play if you don’t think stormcast are any good 😂
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Leodis%20stormcast%20%35%20%2D%20Drakesworn%20.
So based on our earlier discussion I have pulled together a list I think I might take to a tournament at the end of the month:
It’s based on using the lord arcanum as a potential buffet and mini beatstick. Plenty of shooting power with the Templar’s ability combined with desolators and ballista. Should allow me to deal with FeC and slaanesh more than my other ideas I have come up with so far.
Thank you to everyone on here for providing some great ideas and thought provoking content.
Feedback welcome
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15 minutes ago, Requizen said:
The +1 from the Tauralon is great in practice but usually pretty hard to pull off as you need to fly over the unit.
Tbh I've been thinking of ways to get the new Celestial Hurricanum without Wizard into one of these lists, it's just so good for 300 points.
I agree the +1 to hit is very situational and not easy to pull off. In its favour it has the +2 to run CA for additional mobility and plenty of wounds for spirit flasks. I just love the model so have been trying to find a way to make it fit into a list over the Drakesworn Templar haha.
Havent looked into the Hurricanum yet though.
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7 minutes ago, Requizen said:
Held a one day tourney, had a couple SCE players show up (I was ringing with Bonesplitterz). Two with Gav, one with Astral Templars. All of them went 2-1, but the Astral Templars list in particular raised a lot of eyebrows. 6 Desolators and 4 Ballistas is pretty messy against anything that doesn't have mass blocking or MW output. I think that's a reasonable build going forward, though with some testing and tweaking.
Desolators just feel straight up better than Dracovators for the points, especially now that Places of Arcane Power doesn't do Wizard scoring anymore (unless they use the 2018 version). Though the extra dispel and cheeky MW output is, of course, always quite powerful.
Thanks for the feedback - very interesting to see!
One concept I was thinking was trying to run the Lord Arcanum on Tauralon with 6 desolators and 3 ballista + ordinator. Idea behind it would be to have him as a mini beatstick who can keep up with the desolators and in some circumstances give you the +1 to hit on the breath attack whilst providing cycle of the storm protection. The question is what support heroes would you run......
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9 hours ago, PJetski said:
Anvilstrike is arguably the best list in the game with seemingly nothing that can consistently counter it... but it is only as good as the general.
If you play it just right it seems like there's really nothing your opponent can do. Aetherwings stop melee, teleporting raptors win the ranged game, incantors stop magic long enough to let the raptors shoot, and evocators kill everything they touch.
The only truly hard matchup is the mirror 🤣
I like the look of the Anvilstrike list you use, but as you say its probably quite a skill based list when you factor in playing the objectives and mobility. Would you agree its not an easy list to use to its full potential?
I find it interesting that barely anyone is using it in tournaments that I have seen recently (Bobo, AOS 6 nations etc). I love Sequitors and Evocators but as people are pointing out on here they just dont seem to perform as well in the current meta which is a shame.
On another note - i used the Drakesworn and Desolator list against Skaven Pestillans the other week on Relocation Orb and won. The scenario isnt exactly balanced and plays into Stormcasts hands in my opinion being only 1 objective, (especially as the objective bounced my way
) but the list performed well and a unit of 6 Desolators in particular were very good - great mix of offensive capability and better defence than battlecats.
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The discussion is settled now so it’s a fairly pointless debate 😊.
It isn’t crystal clear is probably the point but the faq clears it up which is great
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19 minutes ago, Sir Mercury said:
No I think Coolwood is right. The wording does not implies that it stacks every turn. In the last Battletome they gave him an extra attack from turn one but it dont stack like before.
So I saw a comment on a post on Facebook from GW that confirmed the +2 attacks every turn he’s off the board - I saw it after I posted the comment above unfortunately. Wording on primes warscroll really isn’t very clear though.
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Doesnt the Prime only get a flat +2 attacks now if hes left in reserve turn 2?
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I’m just going to take those bits and make them fit onto the models somehow. Even just glued to the side of the horses for example would be ok