AverageBoss
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Posts posted by AverageBoss
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I am iffy on posting direct link, because I hear GW targets them. But Its table/scenario builder module.
Looking forward to when the StD file gets a full update myself. I want to play with my friend in Brazil, and he wants to play StD. -
One issue is that a good portion of Stormcast warscrolls were written in 0 edition, and never really updated for real. They have had points adjustments, and minor tweaks here and there, but their rules were mostly written for a completely different game. A game that had no points or structure and had a 100% narrative or open focus. Its one of the reasons the Sacrosanct warscrolls stand out so much compared to their older cousins. They were written for a far more modern game state with much more interesting rules.
Many units in Legions of Nagash also suffer from this problem too.-
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I play tons of non-gw games, so am long used to chopping area off of 6x4 tables, it's not really a big deal.
Also comes with significant upsides. For one thing, you can use the dead space to store reserves, casualties, and game tools.
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Ya, Stormcast units (as well as most of Legions of Nagash), have the problem of their warscrolls going mostly unchanged since 0 edition (what I call the period before points and the first ghb).
The game is simply far too different for the games those units rules were written for, which is part of the reason Sacrosanct stand out so much (actually being written with 2e at least in mind).
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On 6/4/2020 at 3:33 PM, Sonnenspeer said:
Thanks you, guys! So the conclusion is we have a problem with summoning, not CP, but we may can take some ideas from 9ed 40k 👍
Free summoning is fine as long as the army is balanced around having it (units are slightly more expensive than they should be, other army rules take that into account, etc).
Since 2nd edition has dropped, there has been a pretty even split between armies that summon and those that don't in top 10s at tournies.
Hedonites was certainly an outlier with a busted summoning system, combined with other amazing army rules, and huge activation advantage all rolled into one.
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On 6/4/2020 at 3:33 PM, Sonnenspeer said:
Thanks you, guys! So the conclusion is we have a problem with summoning, not CP, but we may can take some ideas from 9ed 40k 👍
Free summoning is fine as long as the army is balanced around having it (units are slightly more expensive than they should be, other army rules take that into account, etc).
Since 2nd edition has dropped, there has been a pretty even split between armies that summon and those that don't in top 10s at tournies.
Hedonites was certainly an outlier with a busted summoning system, combined with other amazing army rules, and huge activation advantage all rolled into one.
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Malignants is not a faction. But the contents of the box may be used in Grand Host of Nagash, or Legion of Night/Blood/Sacrament/ or Grief.
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For those wanting a more custom fatemaster, exalted sorcerers box it a good option with lots of parts (because its meant to let you build 3 characters). Could also use it to make a pair of custom foot caster too I suppose.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/exalted-sorcerers
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10 hours ago, Hebroseph said:
I think you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about grapes. Most of the casters in tzeentch answer a question. You need to use the correct fruit for the equation. Are you running change host and want to aggressively jump 20 pinks first turn? Take Changeling. Are you running guild of summoners and want more consistency ? Take blue scribes. Are you wanting to cast Darkfire rift ? take Gaunt Summoner.
End of the day Tzeentch is blessed with a multitude of super efficient casters.
Gaunt Sumoner on disc, 2 cast, Mortal and Daemon, Flies and applies -1 locus to daemons, summons 10 pinks who can move and shoot in the same turn. Has access to StD endless spells. Cost 60 points
Changeling 2 cast, daemon, corner cast teleport, gives out -1 locus to daemons, additional -1 if the enemy gets close, doesnt have a warscroll spell but can learn others, 120 pts
Blue Scribe, 1 cast, but can learn spells, provides rerolls and a very consistent cast chance, flies and provides -1 locus to daemons. 120 pts
All of these are amazing options.
Also you imply that you get twice the durability by taking a changeling and a blue scribe for the same cost of gaunt summoner, but don,t factor in the 50 hitpoints you get from the pinks which i don't think is very fair. Especially since the Changeling doesnt have a warscroll so his 2 casts arnt the most useful, and scribes are normally locked into their rerolls. Plus pinks can cast till they die so its almost like having a 3rd cast for summoning points.
But thats my point. GS summons things.
The other options act as multipliers and/or debuffers.
Its easy to quantify the value of a summon with a direct points cost.
But its much harder to quantify those buffs and debuffs, but they can be every bit as potent.
And thats the trade off.
Just like any ability, it does not matter if you get taken out before you get to use it. If the enemy can alpha 5 wounds, they can stop your summon. It would take an alpha of 10 wounds in multiple locations to shutdown all the benefits provided by two separate casters.
You are right that the Changeling does not have a warscroll spell. But just as with the GS, he will spend most of his time casting lore and realm spells anyways.-
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8 hours ago, NJohansson said:
I feel you are underselling the GS as to his abilities and performances. The horrors are deployed 9” and can move in the same turn so they are definitely not slow. Then he counts for the Locus ability so he provides the -1 to hit that the horrors need so his speed is not an issue due to him needed to babysit the unit for maximum efficiency. Last but not least - he has access to both spell lists so he is a very good spellcaster for literally no points (counting the horrors).
How many points is Occular Visions worth though? How many points is Arch-deceiver and puckish misdirection? Frantic Scribbling and Scrolls of Sorcery? Those are the types of abilities the GS trades for its summon. And as I said before you can get just as many (or more) spells, from both lores, for equal or less points, at more than twice the overall durability.
I missed the Horrors being able to move after being summoned. That is something that should certainly change imo.-
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In regards to the GS, summoning is all he does. He has no other support abilities. And we have much better (and safer) options for horde clearing. You can get more spells for less points (magister + changeling for example). And I believe he is our most fragile unit for points cost. Hes also very slow (unless we are talking the disk version, which is a different discussion), and the horrors he summons will also be slow. He is VERY good. But he certainly has downsides I feel are overlooked.
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2 hours ago, pbL` said:
Thats really good to know - thanks a lot! So I just have to buy the Slaves of Darkness book aswell?
Are there any opinions on the Great Unclean issue?
If you are interested in running the StD models with the StD allegiance rules, then you will want the StD book. 1D4chan gives a quick rundown of roughly what the allegiance abilities do for each army, if you want a glance. And running them as Nurgle, you could use the Great Unclean One with them.
That said, running big expensive centerpiece models in small armies is doable, but can be rough (some of them are nearly or actually impossible to fit). At 1K, a GUO is 34% of your points on its own. Glotkin is 42% of your points. So doable, but you wont have many options left.
StD SC box is 630 points btw, so it and a GUO would be a 970 point Nurgle list.
Nurgle mortal box is roughly 500.
Nurgle Daemon box is 540.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics#Army_Tactics -
1 hour ago, pbL` said:
Thanks for all the good advises - now my wife hopped in and pushed me to Nurgle. I've to say - just modelwise - this is really one of my absolute favorite armies. I know the battletome is relatively old - but hopefully they'll receive a new one in the near future. Do you guys think it's possible to play ~1000 points Nurgle and include a Great Unclean One (or even a Glotkin)?
Even it is a little bit more than 1k points, I think about Great Unclean One, one battle box of Maggotkin of Nurgle and maybe an additonal box of Putrid Blightkings. Is this at least a decent idea?
@AverageBoss can you explain the issue with 5 different armies? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Thanks in advance
As JPjr said.
Specifically you can use them as:
Slaves to Darkness
Disciples of Tzeentch
Maggotkin of Nurgle
Blades of Khorne
or Hedonites of Slaneesh
This requires no modifications, alternate building, or anything. Just change books, and you have a pretty different experience using the same models. This holds trues for a large portion of the StD range due to their marks, not just the SC box. -
35 minutes ago, TonyH122 said:
Goonhammer did a breakdown of the AoS Start Collecting Boxes:
https://www.goonhammer.com/start-collecting-age-of-sigmar/
Some of the higher points ones (500+pts) from a single box were: Beastclaw Raiders; Daemons of Tzeentch; Flesh Eater Courts; Khorne Bloodbound; and Stormcast Eternals.
Tzeentch is out re: no shooting. Stormcast and Khorne might be good re: the amount of cheap models you can pick up on eBay; Flesh Eater Courts and Beastclaw raiders have a bonus of being the two highest points (c.700pts), both also coming with a big centrepiece model. Given you already play dead-boys, Ogors seem a winner. And Ogors are just cool besides.
You can easily go no shooting to all shooting and everything in between in Tzeentch and still be viable. Its one of the most diverse armies with 40 different models kits (and far more unit choices) to draw from. But for a 100% no shooting base, you would want to start with an StD SC box. Not a bad idea honestly, as it can be played as 5 completely different armies just by swapping books.
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2 hours ago, NJohansson said:
Just noticed that In Azyr Be’lakor can take a spell from the Tzeentch Daemon list, that is a bug right? Need to be TD only or am I missing something?
He is an ally (though should probably have all 4 keywords fluff wise, given he was blessed by all 4). So he would not benefit from ANY of the DoT allegiance abilities, including selecting spells.
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So you don't even need judgements/spells on the table or anything, and can keep accumulating VPs if you still control objectives (since unless otherwise stated, you control them unless they are captured by the opponent).
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The game always plays out its full number of turns unless the mission states other wise. Even if you are completely tabled and have 0 game interaction (even if this is somehow true for both players), and the games turns play out and you can still win.
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13 minutes ago, Sacrednikki89 said:
Thanks for clearing that up, are the tzeentch endless spells worth buying?
They are decent, but common consensus seems to be that the StD and BoC ones we have access to are better.
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14 minutes ago, Sacrednikki89 said:
Forgot, I also own a Gaunt Summoner but with no Pink Horrors to summon I figure he's not earning his points without the extra units
I would recommend a Pink box and another blue/brim box since you already have 10x blues/brims and a GS.
The realm listing is for realm artifacts. Whichever realm your army comes from gives you access to those realms artifacts in addition to those found in your allegiance. Ghur is the realm of beasts, and I am pretty sure the Gryph Feather Charm is the most popular artifact from that list (flat -1 to hit the bearer, +1" move). -
1 minute ago, Xasto said:
Has anyone tried the big boy himself Archaon in a tzeentch list? I feel like the agendas can really buff him up
Archaon casting Infusion Arcanum on himself is immense.
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53 minutes ago, Sumanye said:
I wouldn't say he is a waste of points, but maybe that there is just better options. ASF and a 3+ save is not nothing, so I don't think he should automatically get zero consideration. Couple points on the Daemon Prince,, he actually does more damage than Be'lakor if he charges and has a sword. Since Be'lakor is an ally, his 2 spells mean a lot less and makes him a bit less auto-include over a basic prince. Lastly, the Sorcerer on Manticore is not a Daemon and that could matter depending on army composition.
All in all, yes the prince is the weakest choice even if he is cheaper, but I wouldn't say he is a waste and he could be fun to play. Here is a cool build for him, give him the Warpfire blade and hit him with Arcane Transformation and maybe even Reckless Abandon (depending on whether you have a better unit to use it on). Now he is ASF, does 6 attacks with his blade and does 4 MW on a 6. A mini Gristlegore Ghoul King.
Not to mention the 3+ save, and -1 to be hit by melee attacks from his own loci.
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3 hours ago, Sacrednikki89 said:
So the new one with Mark of Tzeentch buffs StD Wizards with his command ability and is good in melee, is he a waste of points without any StD wizards basically?
I mean, he is a very solid combat machine with a built in ASF ability and 3+ save. Its only the command ability you lose out on without StD wizards around, and you can always just use other command abilities anyways (its a pretty meh one anyways, only targeting a single model, and Tzeentch tends to run VERY cp light). If you do want to include some StD casters, your options are: Both versions of the Gaunt Summoner, Chaos Sorcerer Lord (great buff machine if using other StD units, which is very viable for us), CSL on Manticore (our best horde killer, full stop), and big bad Archaon himself. Lastly, we have two StD ally options for wizards. Theddra Skull-Scryer has an easy cast -1 to wound debuff (though short range). And Be'lakor, who is simply amazing and can win games with his debuffs and trickery.
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23 minutes ago, Sacrednikki89 said:
I'm not sure if it's been asked before, but I don't see the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch in Azyr anymore, but it is in the Warscroll Builder.
It has the StD DP for 210 points but isn't a Wizard, is the 160 point Wizard still legal or do I need to allocate those points elsewhere?Age of Sigmar only ever had a single warscroll for the Daemon Prince (unlike 40K which has 3 different ones last I checked).
When StD got its recent update, the DP warscroll got a major overhaul. It is no longer a wizards, but can still be taken in a Tzeentch army no problem (like most other StD units) by giving it the mark. -
1 hour ago, mmimzie said:
Gaunt summoner is the best faster or one of the best spells in the book. Arcane suggestion. It needs an 8 with a LoC around they can catch the +1 to cast buff. Guild of summoners would let the model pink up a second boost to casting. Making that spell realisticly castable.
-1 to hit and -1 to wound is really strong.
All Tzeentch mortal wizards can take Arcane Suggestion. And all of them benefit from the GoS buff. Yes, the GS alone can get an additional +1 from a LoC... for an extra 380 point investment. There are lots of things you can do with 400 points for other wizards (or in general) though.
What would you like to see for 3rd edition?
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
You already can shoot into melee.
Its only when you are melee that there are restrictions to shooting (can only shoot at units within 3").