ryanguy88

Keeping in mind that everything may chance if/when a battletome comes out... Currently, I'd say that's a great place to start for 1,000 points. You'd still need the heroes, and it's probably way more Ironguts than you'll use (maybe even more than you'd use in 2k, but that's preference). You may also get aggravated with the odd number of Leadbelchers, as the units come in 3's, but.... still fine IMO. From here, I'd recommend getting a Tyrant (or converting an Irongut into one), and then a butcher. For bulls, you'll want to run one unit of 12 to get that points reduction (which really do make them point efficient). Then the rest either as 2unitsof3 if you're playing Grand Alliance: Destruction, or you can group them into a single unit if you're playing Gutbusters faction. For the large unit, it'll act as a kill unit, so you'll want the double weapons. Smaller units of Bulls typically don't have that much kill power so I like to treat them as hurdles -- where Ironfists can do a lot of reflect damage (assuming the opponent does not have rend). Try to make sure that the Bulls and Ironguts come with bannermen though. I've found the banners really help defend against shooting (bulls) and magic (ironguts).

@Ajay29 ; I think that, without any offensive buffs, the Tyrant generally performs better with dual-wielding. Plus, due to the wonky rules, the rerolls 1 to hit would also help for shooting (which helps when you're not sending your Tyrant in to melee and actively trying to keep him alive.) I can try to find the source for me thinking this way, but it's somewhere in this thread a long while ago. As for the remaining points, I'd be tempted to say split the difference, but I've never found much success with leadbelchers. I'd vote instead to go for the mournfang as your fast cavalry to run down any enemy artillery/shooting units.

@walheim, If you're just trying to have fun, then the list looks good! For more min/maxing, I'd suggest swapping your 12 ogor block to dual wielding ogor clubs. Iron Fists are fun in min size units, but shine less for large blocks, in my opinion. I'd also personally, split up the Leadbelchers into several units. either 3 blocks of 3, or a 3 block and a 6 block. That way, you might get lucky and have some that can double up their shots. That, or I'd drop 3 of them and put in an ironblaster (which is usually way more reliable for me.) In my 2k lists, I've found that 2 Butchers are sufficient, especially since you'll be running out of spells to cast. Taking a third would only help to ensure that buffs go off way more reliably. I would suggest dropping the third butcher for allying in a Fungoid Cave Shaman, and an endless spell or two. The Fungoid would help give you extra command points -- especially useful so you can use those new command abilities to buff units with a reroll 1's to hit in melee from GHB2019.

I feel like the hooks are pretty strongly Ogor themed. They show up on other models in similar fashion: Bragg the Gutsman, the Butcher, Stonehorn Beastriders, etc.. Also, there are examples of things not being eaten right away (grots from base Ogor pack.) However, the fact that both heads are wearing crowns makes it look like we're looking at a king slayer. And I don't think Ogors have (previously) ever thought royalty tasted any differently. But maybe some model thinks it tastes richer? Maneaters have been known to seek out special names. Maybe one likes the name "king slayer".

If I were trying to be competitive, I might consider something like the following. It would give 2 spells a turn, 2 unbinds, some utility from the endless spells, a little bit of ranged shooting, and two melee beat sticks in the tyrant and the big block of ogors. The two grot units could be flexible and either bubblewrap heroes, or babysit objectives (but there's lots of room for personal preference). I've found that 60 grot blocks at low points, while super hard to move, is kind of super hard to move -- they choke up your big ogor unit and prevent your big hitters from getting where they want to go. That may just be me playing poorly, though. Anyway, the list: Allegiance: GutbustersMortal Realm: GhyranTyrant (160)- General- Great Gutgouger- Trait: Wild Fury- Artefact: Ghyrstrike Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Allies12 x Ogors (400)- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades3 x Ogors (120)- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists20 x Grots (100)20 x Grots (100)1 x Ironblaster (120)Prismatic Palisade (30)Quicksilver Swords (20)Soulsnare Shackles (20)Total: 1250 / 1250Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 180 / 200Wounds: 125

@Garion The advantage to grots would be that they're "in faction" to Gutbusters. You could use them without them counting towards your points limit of allied units (Allies cannot be more than 1/5 of the points of your army, and not more than 1/4 of the units). Also, grots are pretty cheap. As you're playing a "Gutbusters" faction, then Ironguts and Leadbelchers count as battleline. (A proper 2000 point list requires 3 battleline units). Basic Ogors would count as battleline too, (and for any Destruction faction!) but if you've already got that covered, there's no need. You may want to, of course, because a full unit of 12 Ogors is quite good for the points... but you don't NEED to for a legal list. Of course, you could go "Grand Alliance: Destruction" as your faction. This would cause the Ironguts and Leadbelchers to not count as battleline, so you'd have to find 3 other battleline units to fill in ( basic Ogors would count here). However, you'd no longer have to worry about allied points at all. Stick to the basic list building rules ( At least 3 battleline, no more than 6 leaders, no more than 4 behemoths) and you're golden. As to the list above -- You can still play games with it, it just might feel weird having 3 elite Ironguts sitting in your backfield on an objective not contributing. Or alternatively, having 3 short-range Leadbelchers diverted out of the game for an objective. However, Beastclaw Raiders have been making it work, so Gutbusters probably can too! Really, it just depends on what ya like, and what feels right.

@Garion For list building, https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ is your friend. It looks like you can get legal army at 1860 points going with what you've listed. This does not use the Gargant you have (160 points additional), as it would put you over the limit for allied points -- but you could drop one of the other allied units, if you wanted. Assuming you'll be playing the "Gouger " as a Tyrant with the Great Gutgouger loadout, you could have a list like this: Allegiance: GutbustersLeadersTyrant (160)- General- Great GutgougerButcher (140)- CleaverButcher (140)- CleaverButcher (140)- CleaverTyrant (160)- Massive Ogor ClubIcebrow Hunter (140)- AlliesBattleline3 x Ironguts (180)9 x Ironguts (540)3 x Leadbelchers (140)Units3 x Icefall Yhetees (120)- AlliesTotal: 1860 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 260 / 400Wounds: 116 This is a legal list, although probably not the most competitively meta for Gutbusters that I've seen. (But maybe better in your circles!). As far as buying more models, that would totally be up to you and what you enjoy. GW still hasn't made any official statements about the Ogors yet as to whether they'll stick around or not. Most of this community seems hopeful they might get rolled into the next Beastclaw Raider redo, if one happens. If I were to offer advice to make your list a bit more feasible, it might be to drop one of the Butchers (since you can't attempt to cast the same spell more than once a turn anyway), and then add a block or two of grots. That'd give you a bunch of tiny guys to bully with the tyrant, and let them sit and hold objectives for you. (Or use them to screen for your other dudes.)

@Jmason Depends on what you mean by "Gloomspite spells". If you mean the Gloomspite Gitz allegiance spells, then I believe you need a gloomspite allegiance for those (check their battletome). If, however, you mean gloomspite endless spells -- then yes, but you would need to ally in a gloomspite wizard as all of the gloomspite endless spells have a restriction of "Only Gloomspite Gitz Wizards can attempt to cast this spell".

@mDaro That looks really well done! Is that one of the Irongut's bits for the weapon? Which kit donated the hooded head bit?

As Extermina said, kitbash. Alternatively, if you're playing friendlies, I've found many people are fine with letting the giant ogor club "counts as" the great gutgouger. Especially if the other tyrants are all dual-wield loadout.

I believe that weapon profile refers to the old model, Bragg the Gutsman (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bragg_the_Gutsman) Could be wrong, but the actual Tyrant model only ships with dual 1-handed weapons and the Massive Ogor Club.

I'd say that, since most seem to aim to be around the 500 point baseline, 500 points with diversity is what you'd look for. 1 Tyrant, 3 Ogors, 20 Grots, and 1 Ironblaster would be pretty decent, but I'm not sure that I feel good about the Ironblaster. In total, it seems to give what GW tries for: ~500 points (this list is currently 500 ), 1 larger centerpeice model to build and paint (Tyrant), Core units to demonstrate the feel of the army (ogors+grots), and a little side flavor (Ironblaster).

Thanks @amysrevenge and @James S. I appreciate it. Though, this kind of makes me wonder why there seems to be so much push for 12 ogor bulls in a unit. I agree it makes all 12 very point efficient, but in the couple of games I've tried it, I don't feel like I get more than 4-6 or so into combat at a time. Leads to a lot of points sitting in one spot together. Maybe it's because I've been playing a bunch of 1000 or 1250 point games. At that level, 400 points feels like a huge investment and I haven't been shoving them up the center of the board (4x4) to try and maximize the unit. As a follow-up question, I've been trying to decide between running a second Tyrant and an Aleguzzler. The former would give high consistent damage, but the latter would provide some targeted kills (netters against Moonclan, Banners against daemons, etc..) I haven't actually tried the Aleguzzler I have yet, but has anyone else tried fielding him? Does he feel at all consistent or comparable to the Tyrant, since they're the same point cost?

For a unit of 12 ogors, I have a question about the ability Bull Charge Bull Charge: You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for an Ogor unit if it made a charge move in the same turn. If the unit also has 10 or more models, you can re-roll all failed wound rolls instead. Does this ability only work on turns that the Ogor unit charged? Or if it has 10+ models, will it activate on subsequent turns (or on turns that the unit was charged)?