Sartxac
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Posts posted by Sartxac
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Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Verminous Valour
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Artefact : The Brass Orb
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (110)
- Artefact : Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin : Warpgale
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
10 x Stormvermin (100)
- Halberd
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2 x Windlaunchers
- 2 x Ratling Cannons
- 1 x Doomflayer Gauntlets
- 1 x Shock Gauntlets
1 x Doomwheel (150)
BATTALIONS
Claw-horde (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Vermintide (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 163
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400Hi team, i want prove this list. Arch Warlock (with the pokeball that kill any enemy except Gortrek with a +6) +Warlock engeener in order to do stronger Stormfiends and Vermintide so as to foiling an enemy charge againts a horde of clanrats. One unit of stomvermin before a second line of clanrats.
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Oh, sorry i undertood that only affect the caster (only Vhordrai not Sordemaire). Thank's for this important correction:
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Raptor_Jesues:
Maw Krusa increment his damage and points of life by one point every turn if kill any enemie model.
Frostlord isn't a specefic character, in the last games he could use one realm artefact in order to obtain +4 move and fly.
The main spell of Vordhrai only rules the 56% of the times (without considerate the possibility of dispell). He only shoot in the shooting phase while the fight phase occurs two times in one round. I think that many times Vhordrai will fights as you can see in the purple line. And the comparisson is with the weakness big daemon of khorne whitout any improvement.
Both frostlord and mega woss are compared withouth all of their abbilities vs one vhordrai with alot of upgrades as the cp of a covern throne (if you want see his damage output in the melee phase you must substract 4 in every damage average of his row). Now, i only considerate Vhordrai as a good character for the existence of Dolorous Guard (i reccomend read the explanation of Thamalys in the page 17). In which competitive list before to the points down you find the use of prince vhordrai?
This is the damage outpout of Vhordrai without the Covern Throne CP, in a charge with his spell (whithout shoot):
Around the half damage outpout of similar smash monsters of similar cost.
If you shoots and fight in melee:
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1 hour ago, Thamalys said:
Uh - really weird indeed (and massively confusing!)
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Thanks @Sartxac for the stats - really interesting!
The comparison with the Bloodthirster of Unfettered fury is fair: as opposed to the Prince, he's not a caster and he has a 4+ save (instead of a 3+).
The comparison with the Frostlord on Stonehorn and the Megaboss on Maw-krusha gets more intriguing...
- Frostlord on Stonehorn: it does not fly (huge). He's not a caster. 60 pts less than the prince.
- Megaboss on Maw-krusha: he's not a caster. Same price as the Prince.
One big difference re: these three lads above... they don't have an in-built 6+ shrug, they don't have the Hunger or the Chalice of Blood (huge) and they are not casters. If you can't kill Vhordrai in one turn, you are in big trouble, as the next hero phase (again: never get double turned if you play DEATH!) he can heal up to 10 wounds (yes, statistically more like 4, but hey).
Damage-wise, according to experience I'd say that the Prince can shrug off a pesky Bloodthirster, it can maybe survive a Stonehorn charge (mistic shield and/or Neferata's Dark Mist spell can do wonders [not many will have access to unrendable saves after the new GHB! No Etheral Amulet anymore!]) and he will be shred to pieces by a Maw-krusha, as in the Whaaag! they become absolute meatgrinder.
Is the Prince failry costed in terms of points? Yes, I'd say yes. He can delete one unit / hero phase via his command ability (always bring a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with him... the dynamic duo is quite something...) before you even move - bonkers.
Broadly speaking, I don't think the lack of damage is the problem with Soulblight. The issue is that the entire army is a bit of a glass cannon - and in an objective-based game, having very little resilience is a massive issue...
is a caster, ok. But he only can throw one spell for turn, i considerate this in his damage outpout. He isn't a support or good caster.
He only can heal 1d6 once time, 1 for turn if kill any model, In normal conditions only produce the half damage of other big monsters. The frostlord have +5 invulnerable save. Even this, is more durable with the protection of Dolorous Guard and can heal these spirit knights. But for this points cost i only think that he need a littel upgrades as the vampire keyword or mount trait.
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2 hours ago, Thamalys said:
Uhm... not so sure about that. Can you give us some specific examples, please? Genuinely curious - especially about the 280 pts hypothesis!
Mega Woss Maw Krusa whithout considerate factions abbilities, artefacts, upgrades of his main weapons killing enemies, any cp or spell for doing him more killeable. 460p.
Vordhrai in the blue line cost the same points but you must considerate that i incorporate his shoot of 6 moral wounds on +3, his spell on him, the cp ability of covern throne in order to do the same damage of a standard Mega Woss. 460p (remember that we only can shoot one time for round while we fight two times in a rount)
Frostlors on stonehorn only with the mount trait and charge do the same damage for 400p.
Bloddthirster of fury of 270p whitout faction abilities, artefacts, etc do similar damage than a standard Vordhrai in a charge (purple line).
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With this, seems better Blade of All-Frost
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1 hour ago, Sauriv said:
Remember that Rune-token do not affect the mount.
Are you sure?
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Whick artifact do you that is better Blade of All-Frost or Alvagr Rune-tokens?
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On 7/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, Thamalys said:
be honest. At full health and fully buffed (his own spell + the Coven Throne command ability + the Vampire Lord command ability) the guy is downright INSANE already... do I want him to have +1 attack in LoB? Of course I do. Would that be in line with the fluff? Oh yes. Would it be sensible rules-wise? I say, probably not... to be fair, I am quite surprised they brought it down in points. 6 mortal wounds flat on a 3+ (potentially a 2+) at full health, folks - flat. Shordemaire, for the win!
i dispute this. The breath of shyish attack of Vordhari only is good with all of his live, after this is little poor. His damage outpout in comparrison with other smash monsters of 400 p is poor (even other monsters of 280p). I only think that is good helped with the dolorous guard. You need spend 2 cp so as to make a good damage outpout.
Furthermore, i think that we are the few factions withoutm mount traits.
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OK, Rosa I undertand your aclaration, you are correct.
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6 hours ago, Kramer said:
I think it’s fine. We still keep the 5+ ward save. There are some characters that will get proper squishy comparatively.
and everyone except gluttons brings rend to the party for us.
but that’s of course influenced by local enviroments.No, games workshop change the salvation roll. Now we must select one salvation like 40k. For example, is you receive mortal wounds we have the +5 salvation, but if you receive normal damage you must choose between special (+5) or normal (+3+rend).
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On 6/10/2020 at 4:44 AM, Lord Krungharr said:
I got a good deal on 3 Ironblaster Cannons (I'm using the ogors and rhinox bodies for Legion of Azgorh conversions but have Mournfang bodies to replace the rhinoxes). Is there any decent Mawtribes army/subfaction/battalion combo to use 3 cannons in there? I think I can get some Gluttons and/or Ironguts pretty cheap too if that helps. I have a Bullgor heavy Beasts of Chaos army though, so maybe the footslogging Ogors is too redundant? Perhaps the Mournfang heavy cavalry option could work?
Or I can make the Scraplaunchers if those are better? Or I could just sell or trade them for Stormcast stuff for my Cities army; I'd like a unit of Evocators on Dracolines, unless the Ogors disagree! Low model count is nice sometimes.
Yes, use Underguts with a tyrant with Gruesome Trophy Rack:
A list like this:
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29 minutes ago, themortalgod said:
I feel they need to come down more than that if their warscroll isn't changing. I think 160 would be about right. If you think about it, Morghasts are basically the same as Tzaangor Enlightened. TE are a flying hammer that costs 160pts for 12 wounds worth of models that move 16". Morghasts also have 12 wounds worth of models and are a flying hammer, though a bit slower of one. If you simulate damage output. Morghasts also have similar damage output to a unit of TE. (higher than the base profile, but lower than when TE get their built-in re-rolls)
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i think that points cost of the miniatures depends to the type of army and the strategies that they can do.
As a example, one army with many types of war units and many strategies possibles will tend to have worst units to the cost vs specialitzed armies in one of this strategies. For example, morghast can be mediocre hammers or a good strategic unit in Legion Of Night due to can deploy in a extreme with easy charge of +9 with 3 rolls. Other example, our LoB dragon for her points is garbage in comparison with a Stonehorn, Maw Crusha, Bloodthirster, etc in his damage outpout, have similar or better tanky options (chalice and the -1to hit command trait), but have support abilities and good strategies in Soulblight with MIst Form As sniper of enemy heroes or small units (although this we need mount traits for our VLoZD).
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4 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:
Then you cannot atack with the one targeted by the orb. I know that there is an artefact that says you atack first. If it says that you atack at the start of combat phase, then if it is the khorne player turn he atacks with it (and rest of the bloodthristers) before you can activate the orb.
Are you sure about this? And thank's for the description of your tournament. I only don't undertand your battle vs ogor mawtribes. As a player of both teams, i suggest you to use the chainrasps as screen and wait her charges. If he had charged your screens with the frostlord or gluttons, you would be kill these with a dragons charge (the dragon with the orb vs one frostlord is mandatory) and the debuff of Neferata is excellent.
For other band, anyone knows when we will have mount traits and better battalions for our vampires? And solve our problem with always use Neferata as general. I think that we need the orb+etheral in dragons + aura of dark majesty (or the excellent Soulblight trait Mist Form).
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4 ironblasters in underguts with +1 to hit (tyrant artefact) could kill a maw krusha in 2 rounds (12.44 average damage with rend -2) or two little strategic heroes in one round. I only have one ironblaster, i can't taste it. Has anyone tried this?
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On 1/14/2020 at 8:38 AM, Bululu said:
Wow, basically same list i posted here a while ago, im sad it didnt work well
, btw mate you cant have duplicate mount traits on the list so youll have to change second metalcruncher to other thing
Not, this list isn't bad, only my strategy was bad. The charge vs screens of clanrats was ridicolous.
The ossiarch bonereappers of petrifex elite are ridicolous tanky, my FlSO whithout ethereal amulet charged vs 4 morghast and was killed by them. 12 ogros was killer for only 20 mortrek guard. In this battle i only conquered one point after a battle of 4 leadbelchers and 4 ironguts vs only 5 cavalros deathriders. They charge to the 4 leadbelchers but after this the ironguts charged to them while were using "Down to the ironguts". Only 1 irongut survived the battle.
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In addition, this was my list in the tournament in spain:
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast more ribcracker.
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Lore of Gutmagic: Molten Entrails + Greasy Deluge
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Battleline
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Ironguts (220)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Battalions
Goremand (140)Hei Charleston!! You must read Kramer, the idea of the hobby is have a good time. With LN (vampires list) i was last in a league but i'm happy for the good time i had.
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2 minutes ago, MKsmash said:
He has one.
Ok, but in this case you need a minimum of two units of frost sabres, he only have one. 😉
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5 minutes ago, MKsmash said:
That looks really nasty, tbh. I'll think I might try it out!
You can't use skal, you need icebrow hunter's in order to use skal battalion.
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29 minutes ago, MKsmash said:
Don't use TT's if you were. Try to take slaughtermasters whenever possible. Take lots of Stonehorns. I would suggest not using BCR, as they're not nearly as strong as gutbusters. Consider mostly Guts with a FLoSH or two.
we can't do nothing vs screen of 10 miniatures if we only use BCR. In my last tournament in spain of 3 battles i only win vs cities of sigmar, i uses a combination of ogor mawtribes and list of skavens with screens of 20 clanrats with hordes two hordes of 40 pestilens kill two FSO and 12 ogors in two melee phases, we losed in 1 round.
The unique solution is use two SO when one of these can group 6" or 9" for kill the hordes o helite hordes behind the screen. Or use ironblaster/ironguts/two mournfang for try to clean the screen. Our widards dispell can't fight vs nagash or arkhan (we only can add two to dispell with a artefact or add 3 with the artefact and mawpot).
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16 hours ago, EldritchX said:
You used to do 5 on average, not 6, because you could 'miss'. You also now do 3.5 more MW on a charge, and move faster. However, the Huskard is a trap choice. The only good TT is the FLoTT, with Rimefrost Hide or Alvagr Ancient, and possibly not outside Winterbite.
I dispute this, for 390p the frostlort on TT is ridicolous, his missile attack do 2 MH to units <10, 4MH to units >10 miniatures and 6MH > 20 miniatures:
Enemy save Average damage in a charge 3 5,33 8,83 4 7,19 10,69 5 9,04 12,54 6 10,89 14,39 For only 10p more the frostlord on SO do:
Enemy salvation Average damage In a charge 3 9,06 14,86 4 11,81 18,28 5 14,57 21,69 6 16,33 23,78 And is better the special save of +5 (grants protection vs MH and missile weapons) that the -1 to hit vs melee weapons of the TT. Also the Rimefrost Hide is worst than a metalcruncher or do insufficient tanky the TT.
Huskard on TT for 340p do (and is a support character for the SO):
Enemy save Average damage In a charge + unique shooter in Boulerhead (blood vulture and Hailstorm). 3 2,56 6,06 8,39 4 3,46 6,96 9,30 5 4,37 7,87 10,20 6 5,28 8,78 11,11 Reduction of average damage: With Rimefrost Hide
To hit -1 to hit +5 special save (these columns are exactly the reduction of damage)
+6 100% 33,33%
+5 50% 33,33%
+4 33,33% 33,33%
+3 25% 33,33% (really is less than 25% because a big number of elite units do MH with unmodified +6 hit)
+2 20% 33,33%
+1 16,66% 33,33%
Missile attack:
0% 33,33%
Reduction of average damage with -1 to hit and Rimefrost hide that the monster would receive without this improvements, these following aren't the exactly reduction of damage is the reduction in comparison with the monsters with the improvements and the same monsters without this upgrades):
To hit: rend: FoTT HoTT
+4 0 33,33% 33,33%
-1 55,55% 50%
-2 50% 46,66%
-3 46,66% 44,44%
+3 0 25% 25%
-1 50% 43,75%
-2 43,75% 40%
-3 40% 37,5%
+2 0 20% 20%
-1 46,66% 40%
-2 40% 36%
-3 36% 33,33%
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3 hours ago, Walrustaco said:
Their ranged output is unbelievable. Unbelievably underwhelming!!!! You're lucky to do 6 mortal wounds against a unit of 20., you used to just do 6 anyway, regardless of unit size. And it costs you between 300 and 390 points for a monster than doesnt do anything well. Pretty awful honestly. Think most of us have shelved the thundertusk at this point tbh.
Maybe, i think that only the Huskard on Thunderstursk is a bit decent in list as the following:
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Trait: Lord of Beasts
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
- Blood Vulture
- Prayer: Pulverising Hailstorm
- Mount Trait: Rimefrost Hide or alvagr ancient.
Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
Stonehorn Beastriders (300) (blood vulture)
Units
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
Battalions
Eurlbad (140)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1We could kill every turn an strategic enemy hero of 5-6p with the 3 vultures more blast of frost wrathed ice while our huskard would using winter's strenght and pulverising hailstorm every turn.
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Any change for the warscroll of Soul Grinder or is only a points reduction?
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3 hours ago, TMS said:
@Sartxac, what are those Grave Guard doing for you? Got any good plan in mind?
And I agree, Mist Form is superb. It's probably the single best thing about Soulblight as it is. It makes the VLOZD an excellent sniper that can always leave unimportant fights for more juicy targets.
My intention was explain in detail my battle vs skaventide. Yes, VLOZD as a sniper of strategic heroes and units as jezztails is excellent. He compensates his poor damage with this strategic abilitie for backing out and charge.
Grave guard only for protect one point, skavens have magic tunneld and can deploy units 9" of my grave guard. With this i can assure his charge (4"of move and minus of 6" in charge). And in order to have 50 points for command point are better option than chainrasp or skeletons.
Death1942, any thinks to convert the new black knights of slave to darkness in excellents vampires? We only need change his heads.
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AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted · Edited by Sartxac
I think that these clanrats aren't enough stronger to kill elite units. I would change 400p of clanrats for 180p of 4 rat ogors + 100p 1 master moulder (rate ogors with 5-7 points of live more for model could be a good unit and you can transport this with the gnawholes), and the remaining 120p for 70p flamethrower and 40p for bell of doom (because if they kill your verminlord you could have bravery problems).
Other alternative, this 400p for other warlock engeneer + hell pit abomination + bell of doom +and 30p for other endless spell.