Sartxac
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Posts posted by Sartxac
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7 minutes ago, Warlordounnet said:
Because do you think that there isn't any existing racial or genre discrimination in hiring? And that is a way to counter it?
This is forum of GW and this is the beginning of other political/social discussions. But if you want you could see the Australian experiment with anonimous cv's. Racism appears in specifical areas, not all.
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4 hours ago, stratigo said:
I mean, yikes man. Yiiiiiiikes. Yikes.
Without enter in arguments of authority as you does, I think that in this forum all the commentaries have been respectful. Maybe i misunderstand your commentary because i don't know english coloquial expressions.
For other band, I think that the tolerance paradox is about people that wants impose their ideas violently.
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35 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:
The question of how to quantify what the most significant barriers to entry are is a tricky one, but not necessarily intractable.
Between us I'm sure we could post it in a lot of places ranging from the other big geekery forums, to smaller gaming groups and more niche communities. How far it would spread, and how many respondents we'd be likely to get I don't know. I'm also not sure how you go about processing that sort of dataset in a useful manner (I'm a physical scientist, not a social scientist, so while I can run stats, collating that sort of data is outside my area of expertise).
Maybe something to consider though, if we really want tk know what is keeping people out of the hobby.
I'd be willing to bet cost isa big factor.
If you are physics as me, you have enough capacities for learn about multiple areas that use science.
I only participate in this web. But in the comic-book the editors of american super-hero comic have the same problem of new readers (players in the case of this forum) and they thought that problem instead of the bad quality of the majority of theirs historys was the poor diversity of etnics in the main series. They try to change the sex or etnic of a lot of characters, or contract more people of a lot of countries. This strategies as you could imagine didn't works well, only works well the creation of new characters as Kamala Khan (sorry i say Kamala Harris in my first message 😅). Saddly other good new characters as the ultimates of Al Ewing didn't have good sells and was canceled with a hurried final.
For example, in a lot of big cities of south american as Mexic the sells of the collectibles with good stories and good prices have more sells than in north america. And the same occurs with the manga, in a lot of famous manga the characters are asiatics or caucasians but have a lot of good sells in south-america. Isn't a problem of inclusion, is a problem of quality.
In our hobby i know a lot of youtube mexican channels about AOS, but they say that are mexican with enormous salarys in compariosn of their citizens. In spain our middel salary is 1/2 of your salary, but for mexicans the middel salary is the 12%. Is imposible introduce this game in their country. GW only thinks in USA and UK.
PD: in usa i don't know for what but in the comic book a overrepresented % of the best writers are of UK. I don't want quotes of spanish, germanics, chinese, mexicans, etc. I want writers with the same quality.
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I think that now this topic don't generate new opinions and seems the beginning of a bucle.
I think that most of the players wants more diversity but the diffence is how do this. I view two different positions, the people like me that wants new armies with specifical tematics and the people that want put diversity in the majour of the armies that now exist.
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1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:
Most of Cities of Sigmar is in the realm of fire, the others in the realm of life, much of which is a jungle. If you want to restrict race, neither are optimal for pasty white people (with Greywater being the sole exception). They also came from all humans that were in Azyr, so either they should form a melting pot of all races, or all races should be represented. The only reason the Freeguild look as they do, is because GW has only made one Order human since tge start if AoS, which has since been discontinued. The Excelsior Warpriest had distinctly African facial features (as well as the cutest little Gryph hound).
Stormcast harvest their souls from all humans Sigmar wants to take, they should reflect every human the hammergod wants to use.
Slaves to Darkness' aesthetic has nothing to do with historic vikings, so I don't see a reason for racial restrictions.
And yes, I do think Bonesplitters are not in good taste, taking African elements and putting them on the barbaric subhumans that are orcs isn't the most respectful way to treat a culture. Not dissimilar with the mongolian themed ogres.
Sorry, maybe i'm not explaining well mi idea due to my poor english.
I'm not talking about the lore, i explain the armies that i want. I like the freeguild for reasons that i explain this sometimes in this threat.
I don't want a game with all fanciful armies, as a minimum i want a few number of fantasy versions of more realistic armies. Nothing more. Or other versions of popular fantasy armies or characters.
For example, i prefer slave to darkness with less demons, only barbars and "viking warriors" in dark amours. I prefer this instead of khorne with a lot of daemons and red armours. But is only my opinion. I like khorne, idoneth. and the other armies but i prefer other aesthetics for spend time mounting and painting.
I think that if you want more inclusion in AOS, you need make new armies. In the fantasy movies that treats about china you could see visual topics, maybe if you make a new army exploring this topics this would be attract more of this citizens because they will see their culture represent. For example, the ogre army of Eorek:
https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/25451-the-khorne-werewolf-guy-bushido-ogre-style/?page=3
I don't know the lore of warhammer fantasy but never i associated their orks with africans... Only with american natives for the appareance of the tattos and clothes, i think as a consequence of the weather the germanic tribes wore more clothes. These had the same type of weapons but a lot of knowledge about maths and cosmology. Maybe the chamans of this orcs could have similar knowledge. I think that this commentary isn't a insult for no one.
For example, i love the flagellants models as a parody of the cristian fanatist, for me are funny with i'm sure that in the next years they will pass to warhammer legends.
I think that we can't stop the creativity of the designers in order to create new armies or recreate realistic fantasy versions of real armies, with the argument that could offend any historical culture.
Thank's and apologies for read my messages with a lot of english errors.
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4 minutes ago, BrownDog said:
I'm sorry but this is a very ugly and off-putting mindset to have for AOS
Sorry, this is your opinion. All fantasy constructions are based in aspects of the real world. I don't see any problem in this.
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33 minutes ago, BrownDog said:
come on, 'the real sexist are the ones asking for more female characters' is dumb and you should know that
No, the real problem is demand black, asiatic soldiers or womens in every army that have the aesthetics of some real armies like cities of sigmar (the empire has tecnology and little steam punk appareance similar to the occidental armies of Europe in S.XVI). If you want more representation i think that is better make new armies like armies of mercenaries with a lot of strong womans, pirates of any nations workings together (i think that ogors have some mongols aesthetics), etc.
I repeat, for the aesthetic of stormcast i think that is better and more realistic make a army of black soldiers (black people of north africa have better hipertrofic conditions for wear stormcast armours). Is impossible for white mans make a army where every soldier have a big bodybuilding whitout take stereoids or magic potions.
For other band, i think that slaves to darkness must be white mans with viking aesthetic in their soldiers .
AOS is fantasy but i want armies that are based in phantasy versions of real and identificable armies. For example, the savage orks with their tattos for me are versions of the humans tribes and ancient tribes like the native americans of Apocalypto (movie of 2006).
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19 minutes ago, Enoby said:
Some more numbers!
I think some interesting points have been raised in this thread, and a lot of them ended up falling short because we just don't have the numbers so we end up leaning on anecdotes. Even Games Workshop probably doesn't have accurate stats for number of male and female fans; they'll have a better idea than we do, but I doubt store owners keep tabs on everyone who buys from their store, not to mention those who buy online or from third party retailers, or who just don't buy at all.
At first I was a bit stumped as to how we can provide anything numbers wise when it comes to GW's demographics, and even now I'm still not sure for those specific numbers. Websites that may take surveys will usually just measure the demographics of their website, and they could be misleading.
However, I did think it could be useful to look at the demographics of something quite similar - Game of Thrones.
Obviously, there are loads of differences between the two series - most Starkly (hah) that one is predominantly a TV show whilst the other predominantly a miniatures game. However, the reason I'm looking at it is because I want to investigate the differences in interest of a fantasy world where women make up a good proportion of the characters. The reason for this is to try and lead some credence to the argument that women can be interested in a stereo-typically male oriented world so long as they're represented and welcome into the fandom.
Game of Thrones has themes of violence, war, politics, magic, general fantasy, and dragons. While not identical in their inception, these are also themes in AoS. If we go by the theory that the average woman just isn't interested in these themes and so wouldn't like Warhammer no matter if the female model representation and community attitude changed, then we should also find that women aren't interested in Game of Thrones.
It should also be noted that GoT came under fire earlier on in its runtime for sexist portrayal of female characters, so there was at least some stigma attached to the show. People seemed to talk about this stigma much less as the show went on, but whether that's because it's old news or the show changed, I couldn't say. Regardless of the claims of sexism, there are many important female characters doing many different things in the show - Daenerys, Cersei, Sansa, Arya, Brienne among many others are well liked by fans and have very important roles within the TV show.
I can't speak for how welcoming the fandom of GoT is, but as it's a TV show, there's much less social stigma attached to privately watching compared to entering a shop or having to interact with other fans to take part. I also have some stats of number of male vs female characters in the books ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/707436/game-of-thrones-character-gender/ ). The stats (M/F) are: book 1 270/115 (70/30%), book 2 266/171 (61/39%), book 3 210/146 (59/41%), book 4 210/181 (54/46%), book 5 64/40 (62/38%). Obviously not perfectly equal, and it does get gradually more equal as the series continues, but still more equal than AoS's split (80/20% for named characters, 83/17% for generic now we've included all male Stormcast, which I accidentally missed before).
Yes, these are the books, but the TV show is faithful enough to the books early on (sometimes merging characters and taking parts out to save time) and we're more interested in proportions than exact figures as the exact figures are hard to come by.
It was a lot harder than I thought to get exact demographic numbers that didn't come from surveys with sites that may have a gender bias either way, but the best I could do was Statisa looking at Italians responding to what popular shows they were watching in 2018 ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/707436/game-of-thrones-character-gender/ ). They found that 20% of male respondents said they were watching GoT compared to 16% of female respondents.
In addition, another stats collection found that 52% of social media mentions of GoT for season 7 (2017) were by women ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/737521/game-of-thrones-social-media-gender/ ). It should be noted that some social media platforms are more used by women than men (Facebook and Instagram have a female bias, YouTube has a male bias); unfortunately I don't have a premium account so I can't share exactly what sites they looked at - it was more than one, but I can't get more specific).
To drag this back to AoS
As we can see, women are interested in fantasy stories with violence, war, politics, magic, and dragons. GoT, despite the accusations of sexism early on, does have a large selection of important female characters who don't all fit into one stereotype and are treat like people, as well as a more equal representation compared to Warhammer.
I believe this provides evidence that women are interested in violent fantasy stories, and this could include AoS. GoT is more visually grim than AoS and is more 'realistic', but still has a stronger representation of women and a larger percentage of the fanbase seems to be women (assuming than significantly fewer women play AoS than men, which seems to be the case).
It should also be considered that the community (or lack there of) has less stigma attached to it. To be a fan of GoT, you never have to interact with another fan and so fanbase toxicity plays far less of a role. In Warhammer, in order to play games, you will need to interact with at least one other fan and likely many others in a hobby shop, which can have a toxic (or even just unwelcoming) environment; this also isn't accounting for the rather unsavoury online personalities who have unfortunately clung onto the Warhammer IP (mostly 40k to be fair) and come up frequently when searching for lore videos.
I hope this provides further area for discussion
I thought that game of thrones has tabletop games. These have more womans players?
With the pass of the time we see more % of womans in other competitive games as chess or draughts? With the pass of the time i'm refering in the last 10 years. And is this comparable with the inclusion of womans in sports like basketball, football?
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28 minutes ago, shinros said:
You're trying to divert from your point. My point stands. Because you got caught out. Merit should decide, talent should decide. Denzel Washington(who is black) said this, a host of white writers pushed me to write.
There are other reasons why you don't see more minorties. I won't say why due to the mod notice.
Exact. Merid and talent.
The really racism is separate the humans (one race) in etnics, sexual orientation, etc. The excellent penciller Doug Braithwaite drawn in all of his work white caucasic mans, not black mans as himself. Black phanter was created by Stan Lee and jack kirby (white mans).
This seems that a few people want quotas not merits.
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1 hour ago, Cayce said:
And that will likely mean more female designers, painters, authors and sculptors, and then even more female representation in figures. In some way it’s a chicken and egg thing. The changes we have already seen are likely to lead to more changes, which will hopefully result in a greater diversity of models and creative new ideas. One of my personal favourites is the new inquisitor.
Could you explain the relation between make more female models and the contract of more female designers, sculptors, etc? Only womens could design fantasy womens? I think that males and females have the same brain cappacities, and i think that a lot of writers of both genders create interesting characters of both genders.
Wonder woman was created by a male, Daenerys by a male, a lot of male famous manga characters were created by womans (for example the characters made by Rumiko Takashi)...
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1 hour ago, Kramer said:
On a separate note. It’s a shame that the conversation keeps sidetracked.
the key question was would more female models be helpful in attracting more female players.
not is it realistic, fit the lore etc.To get it back on track, for me:
I would change the lore so fyreslayers would have female warriors, and bring out said female models. If that would help more female gamers get into the game.
what are your thoughts?
I think that you need female armies, but not womens in every army for attract a huguer % of womans.
Furthermore, for the people that thinks that with need more etnic representation in the game, firstly GW need drop the prices because in south america, the major part of africa and Asia the prices of this game are extraourdinary expensive. GW offers the same prices for all the countries that is ridicolous. I undertand this because if in Argentina the prices would be the 50% all the clients of USA and UK will buy their miniatures from this countrys and pay the transport.
But GW must think in this real big problem. In Spain a lot of people buy the miniatures of Lost Kingdom that are better than GW (in appareance because in material are worst) and are much cheaper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aEI0ZpFqZ8
Sorry because the video is in spanish but you could be the seraphon of Lost Kingdom
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9 minutes ago, Overread said:
Aye, but the important thing to realise is that within AoS gender parity isn't as clear cut as the real world. The majority of races aren't human. Dwarves, Elves, Lizards etc... are not human so can't and shouldn't obey gender parity that humanity displays. Heck Skaven already show a vastly greater bias toward males than humans have ever had.
Meanwhile humans of the setting like Slaves to Darkness are enhanced beyond normal measure by their dark gods; meanwhile gods and powers that be also influence the world. So whilst it can be a factor in the concept and background of an army, we can't fully use modern world biology to define the setting.
Plus lets consider that in the modern world we are actually seeing more women entering the armed forces. Guns don't require much energy to pull the trigger. It might well be that we could see more women appear in roles like musket shooting; tank command; magical casters etc... Ergo roles where its not all about brute strength and muscle power.
Maybe we think similar.
If you read my messages i'm referring only in humans without powers and some races like orks. For this i want vampires priest in legion of blood.
And i comment three armies where i want all woman soldiers and other armies when i want look more females like zombies, flesh eater courts, nightaunt (maybe a bigger % of spirit womens than mans), etc...
In the actual wars you could see more females in the armed forces (but i remember read that in spain armies they goes to other works that aren't the first line in wars), because the reproduction is more secure and don't have the same importance of the past, with the advances in technology the womans can do the same work of the males. In a army of humans of S.XVII instead they use shoot weapons, is more important have a big fertility rate, farming, work, etc.
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8 minutes ago, Overread said:
Part of this might be cultural (English doesn't sound like your first language) as well as social. Go back 30 odd years and most DnD groups were men. Fast forward today and there are a lot of women into DnD as well as Larping. Heck Larping has gone from being something really ultra niche to being quite a mainstream geeky hobby with many women in key roles and taking part.
Hobby attitudes change, even in wargames we are seeing more and more taking part. We should be cautious of past attitudes suggesting that some hobbies and interests are for specific genders, when it was often the upbringing and social setup that steered people toward certain things and away from others. Just like there's no real reason women can't play and enjoy Airsoft; there's no reason men can't enjoy knitting. It's only social constructs and impressions that set the tone that one might be for men and the other for women.
I agree only when you say that part of this is cultural. Other little part is biologically. Never you will have gender parity in all the aspects of the society and this isn't a problem.
I'm aware of my bad english, i'm spanish and i write fastly without checking my sentences. Sorry 😅.
For example, in my city in our group three womens play (idoneth, fire slayers and daugthers of kaine). But for other womans that i show this game thinks that have a lot of rules and is boring. In % the males are more competitive and for this is more easy that they like this game (due to the effect of our hormones in our brain).
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4 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Counter argument:
YES, because this is not an historic war game in any sense. And like you said, it seems that even the main designers are just building/scuptling more and more female models than before than 4 years ago, so let them continue the same route plis.Btw, nobody demands anything to GW, because nobody has the power to do that (at least in this forum). It's just a topic to debate with other people. Believe me, it's fun. Try it!
This isn't a historical game. But if you have armies of standard humans without unnatural powers, your are submitted to the same rules that our ancients.
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57 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:
I just want to vote NO. AoS is perfect right now. Throughout human history women played only marginal role in warfare. It's only natural to our biology. It's cool to see armies like DoK from time to time, yet demanding parities for every group that is dissatisfied at a given moment is insanity. It's artificial, unnatural. There are too many people obsessed with social justice. Want to have twisted parities like current oscar rewards? Go, create your own wargame and stop demanding people to obey your demands. Just accept their vision or leave. It's modern terrorism. Whoever has different opinion than the mainstream leftist one is called fascist. That's the real intolerance.
I'm totally agree with you.
The same occurs withcaucus appareance and white skin for humans in cities of sigmar. But i thought that stormcast eternals for their golder armors as black mans (like muscular senegaleses) would have a better appareance like space marine salamanders.
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24 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
I entirely disagree.
I really want the human factions to feature women. StD already has the Warcry bands, Godsworn Hunt and Darkoath Warqueen. That's a good start, but it can be improved. Similarely, there already is a female Acolyte and Nurgle something.
Order humans I also want to be better. Warhammer isn't as nice a world as the real one, when they are fighting, they are fighting for survival instead of small gain for a lord. It makes no sense keeping half of your people from training.
I also think all your "a little" factions have no reason not to approach half and half.
In the S.XVII (or whatever else) a lot of countries were in war, and more of the half of poblation not fights directly. You can't send to a war all people, you need make childrens, science, make weapons, move the economy, etc. And the mans are expendable, not the womans. If you loss the 50% poblation of males you don't the same problems that you would have with the loss of the same % of womans, the other 50% could make the same childrens with the womans. The problem is the countrary, loss a % of womans would be a real problem for a society.
The sexual dismorphism in our specie is a fact. When we see fights between mans and womans in the UFC i won't have any problems with see melee females without unnatural/daemonic powers as wonder woman or womans without the body of the strongwomans as melee batteline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuGdUGqzCgs
In the real world, never exist a tribu or country that sends womans to war in similar % that mans.
Furthermore, for example sometimes i play Airsoft and only one girl participate little times in my group, the other girls don't want participate in this, they say that the hit do damage. And for fire shoot games the differences between genders don't have any importance.
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Armies where i don't want see any female soldier:
-The humans of cities of sigmar
-Seraphon
-All orcs
-Slaves to darkness (except any general with the body of the bif womans of strongmant competitions) + mortals of the other armies (khorne, tzeench, nurgle)
-Barbarian tribes (except some generals)
-Ogors (except one or two model)
-Skavens (may be big rats as the brood horror)
The argument: for example, cities of sigmar for me are realistic humans of the S.XVII. And in the ancient times with a enourmous moratility of childrens, phisics battles and work, the gender equality sounds like a joke. For me view a lot of womans in this armies as ridicolous as see the teenager Robin fighting adult criminals.
Armies where i want see a little number of female models:
-Karhadron Overlords (female engineers piloting war constructions),
-Daemons of khorne
-Stormcast Eternals for me now have enough female models. I think that don't need more.
-Fireslayers
Armies when i want see more womans:
-Flesh eater courts (generals and courtiers)
-Zombies of LN
-Nightaunt
-Archers +mags in all aelves armies
-Sylvaneth
-More vampires in individual units as specialist rogues
Armien when i only want a majority of womans (or all womans):
-Daughters of kaine
-Wood Aelves
-Slaanesh
-New armies like Amazonas
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6 minutes ago, RedMax said:
Looking at your mini, I'll assume that we could asimilate this weapon as a dual hand sword or dual hand axe.
Dual hand sword is 1"/3a/3+/3+/-1/2damage
Dual hand axe is 1"/3a/4+/2+/-2/2damage
then there is caracteristics improvement options in caracter creation. in the list, there is, between many others, +1 to damage, +1 to hit and +1 to wound. Also each of this bonus improvement could be taken up to 3 time.
So you could go:
Dual hand sword is 1"/3a/3+/3+/-1/2damage
taking +1 to hit and +1 to wound and 3x +1 to damage to get an improved weapon of: 1"/3a/2+/2+/-1/5damage
Anyway, each improvement "cost" some destiny point. so improving your weapon this way will increas cost of your hero.
I'm confident that you could build really cool warscroll for your mini that would make sens. There is option to make really powerfull (and expensive in point) hero.
Thank's, but i changed my question because was bad redacted. Really i want know if the upgrades are unlimited in order to obtain Dual hand sword 1"/3a/1+/1+/-2/7damage or whethever the limit is like 1"/3a/2+/2+/-2/5damage. If i can take 3 times every upgrade maybe the limit is 1"/3a/1+/1+/-4/5damage.
*Also, my mini has one pistol and could use the human as a shield.
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15 hours ago, RuneBrush said:
They're in the latest Generals Handbook, so your best bet is to grab a copy of that
ok, I will do it but i have one doubt, could i upgrade the melee weapons to obtain in one weapon to wound with a +1 and to hit with +1 to hit (all rolls hits) or obtain damage 7 with any weapons?
While i wait the answer i share my hero:
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Could anyone kindly share the rules in order to create our characters? I need now the points distribution, etc.
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Do you know any competitive Moulder list?
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29 minutes ago, rosa said:
Guys really? Are you all sure?
Maybe he knows one additional prayer, but can he really cast 2? The text indicates that he can only cast one prayer...
Yes, i'm sure. This was also discussed before:
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15 minutes ago, Kramer said:
What allows it to do a second prayer? I thought you can still only take two, not pray twice.
Also you can only kill any important 5WOUND hero in two rounds. Because you ain’t killing important big heroes. Which is not impressive for 350pts monster.
regarding the tyrant. Yeah I agree pricy. But still like you say in gutbuster he plays a role so that’s fine. For a new model it deserved a bit more, but fine.
You could kill an hero of 5 wound or 8 wound.
The huskard can do two different prayers because we can read:
In your hero phase, this model can chant one of the following prayers. If it does so, pick one of the prayers and then make a prayer roll by rolling a dice. Add 1 to the roll for each other friendly Thundertusk within 18" of this model. On a 1-3, the prayer is not answered. On a 4+, the prayer is answered.
Each BEASTCLAW RAIDERS PRIEST can know 1 prayer in addition to any other prayers they know. In your hero phase, each of them can chant 1 prayer
I understand 1+1, we can do 2 prayers (one between the prayers that already knew and the extra of the book)... But if a monster of 300 p only can do 1 prayer...
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Do you remember that Huskard on Thunderstusk can do two pray for round? Winter strenght (this is really good) or endurance + pulverising hailstorm i think that is good. In boulderhead you can do in the shooting phase a average of 4.16 mortal wounds in 18" to a important hero (blood vulture, blasts of frost and hailstorm). In two rounds you can kill any important enemy hero.
My only problem is the others Thunderstusks, Firebellies and tyrants (except in gutbusters).
Female model representation in Age of Sigmar
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted · Edited by Sartxac
Part of my family are bad people, and some of there live with socials helps without work with my cousins abandoneds. I don't know if the case of UK, but in spain exist a lot of helps without requiritions. And this is the trap.
Maybe if this helps incorporate conditions as do courses for companies, do profesional formations with a salary and after this find work is more better than helps without requiritions. And social control to the parents in order to take the children to the school, take care of them, etc. In summary, helps with a lot of poor people but with conditions.
Sorry for this commentary to the moderators.