Sumanye
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Posts posted by Sumanye
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7 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:
Hm, well if true that's certainly odd, there's no reason why they'd have to specify Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch for Skyshoal Coven then. I'll take note of that ruling, but i'll keep playing with them on foot until we get an FAQ to confirm.
Yes there is. If it says Tzaangor Enlightened, you can take foot or discs. If it says Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs, then you can only take discs. Skyshoal is more restrictive on purpose. I wouldn’t expect a FAQ, it’s in the core rules.
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26 minutes ago, Xyxel said:
1. The Changeling - Pucklish Misdirection
This ability happens in any moment of enemy hero phase ?? Can it be used before he dies from MW spells/abilities?2. Mutative Flux (Burining Sigil of Tzeentch endless spell)
On 3-4 roll a move of D6" allows to get out of combat coherence? Or into combat?3. Fold Reality spell. Lets say unit of 10 Pink Horrors lose wounds, change to Blues, change to Brims.
Last 1 Brimstone Horror model remains. This spell returns 2+ Pink Horrors?1.) No, it cannot be used anytime. The players who turn it is has the option to resolve all of their abilities before you can resolve any of yours.
2.) yes, because it is not a normal move
3.) yes
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9 minutes ago, Grotruk said:
Quick question.
How does the interaction between shackles (for exemple) and daemonrift works ?
Do the shackles count as 3 endless spells ? Oo
“Soulsnare Shackles is a single endless spell that consists of 3 models (if it is dispelled, remove all 3 models).“
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I think the reason you see the tilt toward daemons is, anyone who played Changehost in AoS 1.0 or 2.0 already has the army painted. Flamers are super cheap ($20 for 3 here) and easy to paint, and although they’ve never been good before, it’s easy to prepare a force in a small amount of time. Arcanites otoh, have basically never been good outside of disc Tzaangors and most people probably don’t have sizable forces painted. Tzaangors were good for a few months between AoS 2.0 launch and BoC book nerfing them, but I don’t really see running more than 1 unit of Tzaangors in this book anyway.
In time I think arcanites will be played. I’m building and painting 50 acolytes myself and taking a break from painting horrors. -
53 minutes ago, rockmanko said:
yea, I do think I will not need full 60,
so would like to ask for suggestion how many I should prepare for
I have been running 20 pinks and 40 blue horrors has not been enough due to pink horror icon. With 30 pinks, probably less likely you would need more than 60 because they probably won’t all be damaged at once, but I personally wouldn’t bring less than 60.
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6 minutes ago, Grotruk said:Was thinking about that:Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Fatemaster (120)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
30 x Kairic Acolytes (300)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
Witchfyre Coven (160)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
I wanted to play with Kairos and an Ogroid and a lot of acolytes (maybe a bad idea since the beginning but i like these models and the ogroid/kairos combo ;p)
I wanted my acolytes to be anything else than just bodies, so i was tempting by Witchfyre cult and Fatemaster
As my Heroes doesn't really fit with pyrofane Cult artifact, I thought GoS Coven would be better (and Save some Command point with artifact and battleshock immunity)
But, I'm afraid by a lack of bodies and spells, and being too much "30 kairic acolytes dependant"
In fact, I'm also thinking about a "True GoS Coven" without battalion.
What do you think ? (And sorry for my approximative english)
This looks cool. I have 4 thoughts. No Treason of Tzeentch hurts, changeling could be more useful than ogroid, consider aetherquartz broach for 2nd artifact, and see if you can fit spell portal.
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On 1/17/2020 at 8:29 PM, Gwendar said:
Just to go back to this quickly, I really like that you looked into this.. I never considered Skyfires getting into combat but I've really been thinking of finding 6 of them a home somewhere. I ran the numbers myself and yeah, they really have no need for a Shaman unless you want to counteract Look out, Sir as the +1 to hit only adds 1-2 damage on average.
Obviously buffed Enlightened are definitely doing significantly more, but in practice I find them harder to use and they crumple quite easily.. and the amount of ASF\FL going on in this game... yeah. It worked well in BoC due to sitting behind a cheap Ungor screen, but you still risk being hit by 2" weapons or multicharges ensuring you don't get the buffs by the time you fight.. like I said they can be harder to use.
Skyfires? Throw out some shots, maybe delete a character\bracket a monster and at the very least you have something that can likely handle weakly guarded objectives for 400 points. So yeah.. I'm a fan. The question for me is what Coven do they fit with? I don't plan to run Tzaangors so I've mostly been considering Pyrofane\Summoners.
EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I ran the numbers against 9 Flamers + Exalted (shooting at <10 models, no Aura or RR's) and the combined damage is about 3 less on average for 60 points less. This is assuming you just calculate the Flamer shooting as I don't think you will ever want them in melee unlike Skyfires. Tradeoffs of course being a less versatile unit, less wounds\worse save, lack of mortals and 27" threat range opposed to 40".
What I'm getting at, is that if you want to run a shooting based list, I think the two could actually work quite well together by having the Flamers hit their preferred 10\20+ model targets while the Enlightened plink away at Heroes\Behemoths. But yeah.. could just be for fun. If you plan to do that, you're obviously not running Changehost on top of it unless you fill up your 8 slots with Brims.Thanks for posting this! Btw, what is this tool and how do I get it? I have just been writing matlab scripts for damage analysis, but this looks more useful
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1 minute ago, Grotruk said:
Uh ? Maybe i forgot something but you can't summon 10 pinks in Guild of Summoner.
Oh you are right. Well, I’ve missed a rule every game so far it seems so why stop there. But, I stand by what I said, really enjoyed it and if I had another LoC I think I would have been happy to summon that instead
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Guess one more thing I wanted to add. Most people probably got into Tzeentch because they wanted to obliterate their opponent with magic. Guild of Summoners rewards you for trying to do that the best! It’s the Tzeentch army I always wanted!
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I played first 2k guild of summoners game last night and had a blast. I think guild of summoners actually has the best trio of command trait, artifact, and command ability. These 3 things are good in basically any list and this coven is a fine choice for any list that isn’t flamer focused, because it doesn’t require you to buy into anything. You can ignore the fate point generation and you’ll still get a free LoC at some point on accident and still get a trio of powers that are good in any Tzeentch list.
In my game, by turn 3 I had summoned a LoC and 10 pinks (don’t own a second LoC). I really enjoyed taking Kairos and I really regret not taking the Blue Scribes. Kairos using spell portal, eating the portal and recasting and then using the portal a second time was great. Kept a magister near him so he could throw out 2 chaos spawn a turn and let the magister just glimpse the future.
Not saying Guild of Summoners is the best list, but it’s really fun.
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31 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
I’d run him in Guild of Summoners.
I agree. I think Kairos is great when you want to run a Fatemaster but also want a LoC. Since you’ll probably spend your CP on the Fatemaster, 20 more points for Kairos with an extra spell is very attractive. In Guild of Summoners, you can have a Fatemaster and Kairos and then summon a LoC and still have extra CP for Beacon of Sorcery. It’s win win.
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36 minutes ago, Xyxel said:
Why would a shooting/magic army without screens resign from Change Host?
Probably because he think flamers are cool, but at the same time he still likes having friends 😛
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1 minute ago, willange said:
So why would I use Arch-Deceiver? It seems like if I put him back there he'll just get blown up (assuming the opponent is positioned for it). I also can't cast the spells after the teleport, so it just seems limited to me. Am I reading it wrong?
Even if you never use it, just the threat that you could may change how your opponent plays, especially if you make them go first and have a chance at the double. Also, he can give out locus to change host units as others noted. One other cool use is to summon turn 1. For guild of summoners, he can drop a LoC deep in enemy territory which might be interesting.
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29 minutes ago, Paniere said:
guys you can't do that, the Changeling arrives at the end of movement phase in turn one so no spells
Oh wow, yup I guess I never finished ready the rest of his ability haha. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Yeah, dropping The Changeling with geminids and treason of tzeentch in addition to his -1 hit ability in your opponents back line turn 1 seems like it will create a serious problem for your opponent to deal with even without Changehost to back it up. Possibly also add balewind. With all the -1 to hit, it's possible he survives with a 4+ save depending on what is near. Can also use Balewind to back him up a little bit after he uses Misdirection and the unit he hit might not even be able to charge him.
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44 minutes ago, Dracan said:
Hi guys, been collecting all manner of chaos since fantasy days but never actually played tzeentch. With the new book I have been thinking of getting the lasts bits and bobs for the following list.
Last 150pts are for endless spells but havent been able to give that much thought yet. Any suggestions?
Any reasons why the list is a terrible idea and I am crazy?
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Fatemaster (120)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
Total: 1850 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
Couple things I would say, Fatemaster seems largely wasted in this list, skyfires don't need the buff for combat, so you are really only buffing their arrows which is about 1 extra wound against a 4+ save, not worth a command point. Personally do not think Cursling was worth 160 before this book and he certainly isn't now that we have so many better casters, consider a changecaster or fateskimmer instead. If you are dead set on Cursling however, give him a more useful spell lore. Lastly, you should consider Pyrofane cult if running that many acolytes and also consider witchfyre coven for an extra artifact or maybe increase to 30 20 20 on acolytes with the points you saved on a curseling and fatemaster. Our hosts are too good to ignore imo, I wouldn't take a general command trait.
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5 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Did you run the numbers with agendas?
I did with +1 attack and the result is still pretty much the same. Skyfires and Enlightened remain pretty similar (Skyfires still slightly more damage) if both units charge and attack first after shooting.
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I actually think skyfires are pretty good now that enlightened aren't such a bargain. If you compare 6 skyfires to 6 enlightened charging in and fighting first while buffed by a shaman and you consider the skyfire shooting from earlier, then these 2 units do almost identical damage, (slight edge to skyfires). But what's interesting is, if you take the shaman away, skyfires are less affected and actually do more damage. It's true of course that if enlightened trigger Guided by the Past, they will do tons more damage, but in my experience this is often not what I am trying to do with my enlightened. I view guided by the past as more of a charge deterrent for the enlightened. This is less true with spells like Treason of Tzeentch and Arcane Suggestion giving -1 to hit. But if you are looking for a charge in and attack first type of unit without any setup, skyfires are just as good as enlightened and they can still be quite effective without a shaman making them actually a bargain over enlightened if you can't fit the shaman in a list.
Many of my lists before this book ran 6 enlightened and a shaman. Thinking of trying out 6 skyfires and a shaman or possibly magister on disc instead.
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18 minutes ago, Sunraeteam said:
Were does it say that you have to be a Wizzard to cast a spell? Not in the base rules, in fact it states the oposite as it opens upp for the possibility for non wizzards casting spells. You are probbably right as it is intended. But not as it is written.
How about we get back to some Tzeentch goodness? What amount of blue horros should I bring to the table if my list has 30 pink horrors? Right now I have 20 and some old spares making the total 26 blue and 20 brimstone.
Not trying to be rude, but nobody thinks this is true but you and you are not likely ever going to find an opponent who lets you get away with it.
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44 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
I think we have better options for fast objective runners for the points though. Marauder Horsemen are only 10 points more. They are only speed 12" vs 16", but they bring 2 more models, an extra wound, and play a double role as a harassment unit (with ranged rend).
I don't think I agree better, but it is an interesting alternative
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Anyone have any thoughts about Kairos? His Oracle of Eternity ability is different now, probably weaker than before the book. But one interesting thing about Oracle of Eternity is you can use it on an opponents charge roll to make their charge roll 2-7" and unable to be modified or rerolled. This is potentially huge if used at the right time, especially if your opponent was counting on say a short 5-6" charge and saved a command point for it just in case and you make them fail it anyway. His spell-eater ability and triple cast can allow him to (assuming spell portal was already setup from the last turn), cast a spell through the portal, eat the portal, cast the portal, and send another spell through. He could use this to generate 2 chaos spawn per turn at a long distance by borrowing a spell from a magister for example, or perhaps Gift of change and bolster your tzaangors at long range with Boon of Mutation and free your shaman to cast a Lore of Fate spell instead. Seems like he can do some fun things and I'm excited to give him a try.
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16 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
You don’t get the point discount on the 30 anymore. The 30 was a good buy when you could. The extra models in the 20 are to keep the unit up past 9 for probably a couple turns in combat, and to keep your special models around longer.
And yeah, any 180 point battleline unit is going to have to be run as MSU in lower point games.
I specifically said before this battle tome. I am aware the discount no longer exists and I agree 20 makes sense now, but before it was actually the worst option.
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It's very hard to imagine Changehost gets away without a huge nerf. That ability is so strong it's basically an entire allegiance ability and command trait choice for another army AND it gives your army a 1-drop. Flamers are good but not broken imo, though I doubt they needed the points reduction in addition to all the nice perks they received.
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15 minutes ago, newsun said:
Just like 40k much of this can be mitigated somewhat with los blocking terrain and generally more. 4-5th Ed 40k had same issue with t1 sitting people off the board. Though it does still look super strong.
On a side note what do people think about 9 enlightened on disc? The 120 price increase since I last played has me dismayed.
I think enlightened at 180 is fair. They were way too cheap at 140 and still a bargain at 160. It's true they are weaker with the loss of daemon keyword, but I think that has been more than made up for in other areas of the book. I've only had a chance to play one game with the new book, but I was very happy with enlightened and arcane suggestion.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Could be future proofing? For example, a new hero could be added with TZAANGOR ENLIGHTENED keyword and that hero would not be allowed in these battalions. But ultimately, who knows