GoddammitGary
-
Posts
41 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by GoddammitGary
-
-
9 hours ago, Asm00 said:
So as I understand it, redeploying a unit never counts as retreating and you can always shoot afterwards.
This was in some FAQ, I can try and find it again.
That means that if you can still fly high, even against a flying unit, you can do it and shoot afterwards. However, you can’t retreat and shoot per the disengage rule, si you can’t simply move away a few inches, it has to be a jump.
This is correct. Gws own faq shows that a set up is never a retreat. All the wording does is shows that you can do either if eligibile.....retreat and shoot (and there by stay in three for objective scoring for eg) or ...fly high and still shoot and and charge but you have to be 9 away and can't go near terrain or objectives
-
2
-
-
Apologies
-
"if all our units are equally unviable then that is internal balance. By freaking definition bro. "
Do you even read responses before spouting off.
I litterally said the KO choices are tied to a battalion/combo. So those units are the viable ones. A very small number of scrolls that can go in that battlion and carry that item...that it LITERALLY ****** internal balance...cos your ALWAYS incentivised to take a SMALL portion of the book over EVERYTHING ELSE
"just at a crappy power lvl COMPARED TO OTHER BOOKS. "
Also I never said this and have activly said otherwise. I think it CAN be competitive..but ONLY by taking a very SMALL cross section of units /tome choices. That is by definition, ******, internal balance.
I also never said it was full of garbage units. But incentives and synergies that only benefit a very few. Please READ what people say before arguing the toss
The book is bad!
You can make a good list however !
It is made from a narrow sliver of the book , meaning the internal balance it shot to ******!
So long as you don't mind having a one trick pony list you can do well..even have fun ...but do not confuse that with having a well thought out book that allows diverse builds or indeed expect your opponent to have fun as you spin down the ONLY path the books allows you to play the game in anything approaching a even playing field with everything else ...they fact that is forces you down this path with janky anti synergies and exceptions is another reason it is BAD and has ****** internal balance.
I do not know how plainer that can be explained.
-
On 1/17/2020 at 9:32 PM, novembermike said:
If you grab Aether War then you basically just need some foot guys (thunderers or arkanauts) for durability and maybe a frigate or or something. There's no real traps anymore so you can basically take whatever.
Sorry. The new books riddled with traps .
I suggest more than ever that with KO you do your homework and even proxy a bit to try things . It is not a beginner friendly book. It's barely intermediate friendly.
I've got a few fun lists and one good one but the process of making these lists was not a fast or intuative process like say for eg the cities book
-
31 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
I don’t think you understand what internal balance means.
If your book book has one option that is the clear winner, that is the opposite of internal balance. I
I know EXACTLY what it is. And ko have LESS because they have LESS viable units...because of the reasons I stated...
Petrifex while powerfull at least let's you use all the units. Being tied to a Battalion/item combo reduces to what ever fits in that very narrow combo.
So while obr internal balance isn't amazing ...they at least get to use (competetivly ) all thier scrolls...KO internal balance is junk however.
-
17 minutes ago, stus67 said:
As much as I love the KO all of this blind and aggressive support from people that seem to have never played a game with them is getting pretty tiresome. I've played about seven games in a decently competitive play group so far with a few combinations of lists and options and I have to say that they are by far my weakest army, even behind my stormcast, which is my main squeeze.
This book needs a massive FAQ , and some serious points adjustments, to say the least. Our options are limited, we don't have many answers to other armies, and a majority of our units hit like a wet paper towel and have just about as much durability, but we pay a hefty price for them. It's a sad reality, but it is the reality of the army, and arguments otherwise seems to just devolve into name calling because they know it's true.
Is it a fun army to play in a more casual environment? Yeah they're pretty dope, but I wouldn't be caught dead at a tournament with them.
I'd agree with 96% of that.
There is a list I'm sure of it....A good one..I'll be trying it at heat 1 this weekend.
But.
It's litterally a tiny tiny small sliver of the book . Once you find it it's almost silly how the whole book seems to funnel you to it. And if gw don't like it , it will get an errata and we're back to khrons list which I think is s solid 3/2 list or 4/1 piloted by a good player on a good day ...
-
2
-
-
13 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:
i 100% so far think this is true. The output seems solid, the defense is solid, the shenanigans feel solid. the internal balance is pretty rock solid ( barring some unnecessary restrictions IMO). But the external balance of it in the rest of the game is lack luster so far. if every army was internally balanced we would be in a great spot. But their not.
I'd argue the internal balance is worse than obr.
At least in obr once you cracked the code (petrifex) you can put almost what you want into it ....with KO when you crack the code it's a battalion /general choice which limits what models you can even pick in the first place...let alone items etc.
List building discussions slowly devolve into which list you like best. The one I'm taking this weekend or the thunderer version....everything else is just tiny variations of a theme. That's not choice. That's a straight jacket
-
50 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
You guys are lamenting the lack of choices when you shouldn’t be, there are a ton of choices.
You just don’t like any of them but the choices are there.
Hobson's choice lol.
Or
"Do you want a kick in the balls, a slap in the face or a tenner" that kinda choice... The one where it's not really a choice at all ..
-
23 minutes ago, Phasteon said:
Wrong. „Non-constructive“ complains are not needed as they create a wrong picture of the problem.
The problem is not bad rule writing, the problem is that people dont want to adapt to a different style of play.
Sure, GW could take that criticism serious and make KO like their 1.0 version again, then we could thank our „non-constructive“ crybabies on the internet for ruining our army 🙂.
Edit: Of course they could have made the rules so we can use all abilities while garrisoned.
Yes they could have let us buff our shooting to over 9000.
Then we would discuss the topic „Why are KO so OP, GW is nuts“
Dont you think they toned down the rules on purpose so the tome is not op?
The army shall win through superior movement while being barely survivable enough to withstand shots and some combat.
If they got everything how are people supposed to beat us?
It's very firmly bad rule writing....
..or maybe not writing per say. But tome construction. Individualy a lot of the rules are cool/fine. But then the whole book had someone go through it adding restrictions and provisos which make it s ball ache to read /digest/ make lists with.
As I said before..and I have no idea how the person didn't get this point ;
The lists you end up with are good and fun
The process you go through to get to this (same) list are utter garbo/ frustrating/ full off dead ends for no good reason
It's like someone faq nerfed the book before it went to print and it reads very very badly
-
2
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, Frowny said:
I don't think its nearly as dire vs. Tzeentch as you are all making it out to be.
Firstly, I think the locus -1 to hit is only in melee. He was just playing it wrong (also new to the book no doubt).
Second, flamers of tzeentch are very very fragile. 120 points for 6 wounds with a 5+ save. Literally every unit in the KO book is sturdier than that. Maybe the right strategy is just to shoot/melee them directly.
Thirdly, several of you are worrying about not being able to take screens. That's on you all. Take screens. Make room for screens. Screens win games.
Arkonauts are very solid. Per point and with their reroll active, they are better durability than horrors or pheonix guard against rend 0 and -1 attacks (e.g. the majority of damage). At less than 9 inches, they are also the killiest things per-point in the book. For comparison, per point, they are better than both sequitors and ogor gluttons, both in durability AND in damage output if you shoot all your pistols etc. before fighting. Their 1 use gold keeps them ahead of sequitors with either the save or hit/wound reroll. Yes, the gold is 1 time per game, but realistically, they will have done their job after that one turn, either holding a key enemy charge or shooting a key target with their pistols before it takes an objective. I ignored any of the possible buffs when mathing too, so in some skyports or near characters they might do even better.
Play arkonauts. Love arkonauts.
I'm excited we won't see them in a single giant blob like before, but 2-5 squads that get left behind on turn 1 will still provide you value if you are careful, stopping enemy deep strikes and holding home objectives in most of the missions, and shooting priority targets with their longer range guns. On top of the value they already gave in keeping you in action for that first turn as an opening screen for your ships or balloons. Carrying them around in ships is also perfectly valid
I was actually quite surprised doing the math. But it made me feel much better running several small squads. I do wish, like all of you, that the battalions were a little more flexible in allowing you to take more than a few arkonaut squads, which is disappointing, but not having turn order choice with KO seems far less bad than for some lists, since the fly high alpha is so strong.
I think people with this book may need to remember the old adage, boys before toys, as its tempting to load up on ships and characters etc, which are what people got into KO for in the first place.
Unfortunately in every game I play the 10 arks i am forced to take die in a blaze of mediocrity. I'd much rather use the spare points and get a decent screen like Merc marauders or something from allies. But Thier a clunky battalion requirement and serve the singular purpose of speed bump that could easily have forfilled by almost any other chaff in the game better ...but low drops are important...so there they are.....
-
6 hours ago, Azamar said:
Even speaking as someone who’s very pleased the new book, I agree. The battleline feels very restrictive- it’s disappointing that skyriggers are linked to the one new hero rather than being a general “battleline if KO” choice. If you didn’t want a named sky port, or did but one of the half of the choices that don’t unlock a battleline, then you’ve either got to take the new hero or stick to the old three units of arkanauts- which isn’t great for list variety.
At least arkanauts are dirt cheap now, which frees up points to go elsewhere if you want your own skyport led by an admiral for example. It’s a bit of a shame, but also something an faq or future ghb could easily fix, so fingers crossed.
This guy gets it
-
15 minutes ago, Kramer said:
Play several armies for none of them do I see more than 2 or 3 return in most list. Battalions that are actually used are scare for every army.
Again this is how battalions work for most elite armies. And let’s face it. If you want several ships you’re ending up pretty elite.
50% less compared to what?
Yes if you don’t take battalions you are going to end up with a lot of Drops... but that’s part of the point of them 🤔 (for which there is plenty of arguments to be made as well, with our mobility I can set up in a corner and I still threaten the whole table)
don’t tell me you 1. Actually believe that all the units you could have as battleline if have no place in the army. Because that simple not true. And 2. Actually believe that having the option of skyriggers battleline if you take a certain hero limits you more than having only 1 unit possible as battleline. Then you don’t understand what choices are.
sorry people. But even if you only look at it from a hyper competitive perspective having more battleline choices than before doesn’t limit you more. Can’t have your cake and eat it to.
(doesn’t mean I suddenly think the book is flawless. But having more battleline options isn’t one of those flaws)100% disagree. Having bad options is worse than only one option. You don't feel cheated by a Ill thought out book with the later.
I know exactly what choices are and I'm forced to make the same ones each time I write the list cos the options are so bad. ALL my lists look similar because the alternatives are just hampering yourself ..and I don't even mean competetivly...just simplistically. I'm fed up thinking I've seen a cool thing to try to once again hit the road block of;
Once per game
Not while in a garrison
Can't do that cos your item /CT is auto chosen.
The books a cluster ****** of bad decisions and anti synergistic writing that activily works against the reader having fun.
Sure once youve written the list it's fun to play .but let's not pretend trying to make a list in the first place is anything but a chore and the illusion of choice.
-
1 hour ago, Cauthon said:
Last edition you straight up had an arkonaught tax... they were your only option and they sucked at their intended use. (Big block of skyhooks is arguable as intended, just got exploited by mathhammer)
now we have up to 6 battleline options and you say it’s more restrictive? Doesn’t make sense to me.
And you don't want to use 4/5 of those battle line options. You have to make a decision very early on with your list design on weather you want your list to suck or have rigger/hauler battle line.. and then to access these two you limit your army options way more than you did in the last book (while fitting it in to a reduced pool of battalions)....
...there is a reason most lists look almost identical and it makes me very sad.
-
9 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
Well you could plan on turtling in a corner and then it doesn’t matter if you go first or second.
Our screens are cheaper now and we have the mobility to get anywhere even from deploying in a corner.
I don’t know how you can complain about restrictive list building considering where we just came from.
There are some very common lists that you just can't go second Vs currently. Doesn't matter how much you castle up with your sub 100 wound army. KO need first turn choice or thier boned quiet a lot of the time.
And personaly I found more variance in the old book (eventually) Current list build paths are stagnant a week in to the book...
... which is not to say I'm not enjoying using the army or two I managed to mine from this atrocious book. Cos I am - there's some very fun mechanics and a powerful list. But the process of making said list after only a week is dull dull dull dull
-
I think if I had to guess that no low drop Battalions hurt him.
Its another reason I find the KO list building very restrictive. You need low drops. No it's or buts...even if your going to give it away..you need the choice. So X battalion plus y battleline fitted in 1/2 balloons plus or minus thunderers and endless spell. 200 PTS to garnish and pretend the list is your own......
-
4 hours ago, Dejnar said:
The first tournament result are in for Kharadrons. Tempest 2020 ended with Kharadron 35/44. 1 win and 4 losses. Ofcourse I dont know the tactics behind the list and the general skill of the tournament. It is fun though to peruse. The list seem quite weird to me without any thunderers and arkanauts in a Zilfin list. What do you guys think.
This was the list used:
*"Woop ...there it is...."*
-
23 minutes ago, azmarus said:
GoddammitGary maybe repot about heat 3
I'll have a stab
-
1
-
1
-
-
32 minutes ago, Shankelton said:
Been eyeing KO for sometime now, painting my other plastic until toys well I see what a new book brings.
Well I dont dislike the aesthetic of their helmets, it can make the army seem kinda lifeless. Has anyone experimented with headswaps? Any good pictures and references with dwarf heads floating about?
I'm using ad mech.
-
2
-
-
3 minutes ago, nine7six said:
awesome! where are they getting hook bits from?
I'm actually selling a load atm. I have about 35/spare after making 40 long beards from the kit
-
On 6/24/2019 at 4:43 PM, Unter said:
Interesting, thanks. I guess you avoid taking a big arkanaut blob?
I guess you'd be working with a couple of drill cannon squads and then riggers in that case? Do you prefer the frigate or the 'clad?See above . Yea.
Clad ATM. But frigate is finally at a spot where it doesn't feel over costed now
-
1 hour ago, azmarus said:
somebody know list gary percival from heat3 2019 ?
I took:
Khemist. Fleetmaster. Thermal rider
Khemist
Incantor. Dais
3 X10 arks with hooks
9 riggers 2 grapnels
9 riggers 3 drill 3 volley
Ironclad. Endrins
Ziflin
No trading
-
4
-
-
Yes you can use it. There is a specific faq that covers scrolls that are released with thier own points allowing it
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, Unter said:
Hi folks, seen a lot of lists recently focused on buffing Drill Cannons that have been doing pretty well. I'm not sure if I'm just missing a trick here, but even with Khemist-Mornar buffs of Khemist-Ziflin I’m only simming units of 9-12 drill cannons as doing around 6-9 damage.
Have you guys found success with them?
Yes.. corner stone to most of my lists . When you throw maybe 3 or 4 volley wounds in too and no trading then that's a dead dragon or blood thirster .. or something. Then the rest of the army may hoses through an important squad or even two ... Then you charge something with grapnel riggers ..
The army plays by choosing the range at which you wish to play. To do that you need a credible ranged rhreat. Drill cannons are that.
-
On 5/16/2019 at 2:17 AM, Sttufes Ghost said:
Hello. It is me, the ghost of Sttufe, with the same (if not more) sarcasticness and cynicalness @Kramer has noted me for (I couldn't bother to log in).
I have only one thing to say: Last time I was here (2-3 months ago) everybody be like OHMAHGAWDN NEWKOBATTLETOMEINCOMING!!!!!!!! And now we're back to this:
cool models, but aren't they bad?
No, just challenging
well, I hope we get a new battletome
i still play them anyways
(skip this)good for you bro, nice to know your better than me
I wish we had new models/new battletome
I like the models, but the battletome needs updating
and repeat
It's ok. Two of the horsemen of the impending battle tomes have been spotted. Gw employees and playtesters are buying and building KO. And they have a shadespire team...
There is also the distant rumblings of all the ko art in the new expansion.
If I was a betting man I'd say we had a book before the year end
-
1
-
AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
in Order
Posted
My ship is called the "HMS Kitchen Sink"