Liquidsteel
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Posts posted by Liquidsteel
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Yeah I think unless you need VLoZD to be the general, Vhordrai is the better pick, especially in Kastelai.
I like the Vyrkos Hunters Snare + Sangsyron combo for my general there (plus access to re-roll casts and flaming weapon), so that's what I go with, but the breath doing mortals, the extra attack and the extra rend, plus the heal, makes Vhordrai very tempting.
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Yeah I'm not overly sold on LoB still.
Vyrkos offers a better package in my opinion, as does Legion of Night.
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On 2/7/2022 at 12:25 AM, Lord Krungharr said:
No it wouldn't stack. If it can't benefit more than once per phase, then getting 2 or more attacks from the same ability in a combat phase would be benefitting more than once per phase.
The clause about benefiting more than once per phase is removed via the FAQ, so it can 100% be stacked.
4 hours ago, Tibus367 said:While some may argue the FAQ removes this clause regarding benefitting more than once per phase, it is clear that this FAQ is in response to descriptions of command abilities written for 2nd addition that needed this restriction (because back then you could use the same command ability twice in the same round unless otherwise instructed). This is certainly not the case with Crimson Feast. I believe the intent here is that it does not stack.
RAW it is now stackable without question.
Intent is obviously unknown and ultimately irrelevant. The book is technically a 2nd edition book but not completely. It's not clear or certain what is intended.
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The fact that Zombies have more bodies, do Mortal Wounds, can grow in size and get that 6" pile in shenanigans makes them too good to pass up, in my opinion.
If Skeletons worked like Necrons reanimation - getting to stand back up after each round of damage, they'd be better. Make it a 5+ instead of a 4+ to balance.
The 6" pile in is just massive, able to cover 16" in a turn without charging, surprising people who thought they just snuck an objective then you relocate a few more bodies on to it, etc etc
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On 2/4/2022 at 9:04 PM, Bruteforce said:
I'm just imagining +1 to hit/wound/save from the coven throne on Prince Vhordrai
Making him 2+ save, +2 hit, +2 wound, -3 rend on the charge and 6 attacks😅
How are you getting 6 attacks?
It's 4 base for him for his lance, then the standard 3 Maw and 7 Claws for his Mount.
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6 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:
This is my understanding, and another ability that is off the top of my head is the soulblight returning slain models ability that their heroes have, they say that a unit can only 'benefit' from the ability once per turn, so if I try to return a dire wolf and roll a 1, that unit hasn't benefitted from the ability as none return and nothing happens, but they have 'received' the ability. So can I then move on to another hero and choose the dire wolf unit again to try and benefit? It needs clarification imo.
Sorry I should clarify. They removed the clause regarding benefiting more than once per phase via the core rules FAQ.
So you can stack Vamp Lord CA.
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3 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:
This is my understanding, and another ability that is off the top of my head is the soulblight returning slain models ability that their heroes have, they say that a unit can only 'benefit' from the ability once per turn, so if I try to return a dire wolf and roll a 1, that unit hasn't benefitted from the ability as none return and nothing happens, but they have 'received' the ability. So can I then move on to another hero and choose the dire wolf unit again to try and benefit? It needs clarification imo.
Good point. Its not clear is it.
I think intent is one attempt, pass or fail.
Though you can fairly argue (and I have made use of thus interpretation) that it had to be successful to count as benefit.
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So the AoS App has been updated with FAQ/Errata for Nighthaunt.
The Emerald Host has added "Nighthaunt General" to the Hexwraiths ability, which answers the question regarding Bodyguard saves and excludes Nagash 100%.
Furthermore, Nagash does provide the 6+ ward save and he can use spectral summons.
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Nighthaunt "confirmed" for Spring release, alongside DoK.
Two other tomes in Spring, so likely to be March/April as opposed to May.
Let's see.
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4 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:
You really feel it when that Vlozd is hitting on 3/4s and 3s with no buffs, it's incredibly painful to see him whiff everything which happens a bit too often without support. One of the issues with my build is that the first charges will occur from the table edge which means no hero phase buffing, but such is life.
I'm glad im not the only one who had mannfred one shot off the table this weekend, props!
What buffs did you have on your vlozd and GG for killing the gargants in the game?
So the buffs that I have are:
Belladamma's spell, Under a Killing Moon, providing an additional hit on 6s, this is a 12" aura
Mannfred's Command Ability, providing +1 to hit and wound in a 12" aura
For the VLoZD only, I have the Sangsyron Artefact, plus Flaming Weapon spell, providing D3 extra attacks on the charge as well as +1 damage to the lance
For the Grave Guard only, there are +1 attack buffs from the Vampire Lord and Mannfred (highly situational) as well as fight twice from the Necromancer, though I seemingly failed to cast this most of the time yesterday; don't think anything ever piled in for a second time. The Grave Guard also situationally get +1 to Wound if they're wholly within 9" of a Vampire.
When killing the Gargants, the VLoZD was fully buffed, and rolled 2 extra attacks, missing one but generating 2 more via Belladamma. I then also missed one but generated two more with the maw, didn't even roll the claws.
The Grave Guard had Mannfred, Bella and +1 Attack, I only rolled 40 of my 61 attacks here.
With regards to the buffing, thanks to his 16" move, Mannfred has a buff range of 34", if you auto run him 6". It could allow you to keep him back, though that does nothing vs Sentinels or Translocating Longstrikes.
I do think this list could be Legion of Night just as easily, though the reroll casts for Vampires is pretty big in Vyrkos, and I like the extra attacks as well as counting as 14 on objectives for the VLoZD.
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Yeah shooting is a pain for sure.
I, too, played some games this weekend, just a friendly 8 player tournament at our local store, though the scene has a high competitive baseline. Managed 2 wins and a draw, coming second.
This was the list that tabled 11 Dragons in 2 turns and has some really high damage potential with all the buff layering you can do on the VLoZD and the Grave Guard.
The List
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: InspiredLeaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)**
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Vampire Lord (140)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine PinionsBattleline
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**Units
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Fell Bats (75)**Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Battle Regiment
***Command Entourage - MagnificentAdditional Enhancements
ArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
Drops: 7First game against Sons of Behemat on Savage Gains, with 4 x Mega Gargants, I won but it was close. He gave me first. VLoZD deleted his general turn 2, then died the next turn in response. Grave Guard deleted a Mega turn 3, then a Mega turn 5. He lost because he rolled snake eyes turn 5 to take my home objective and had no CP to re-roll. Gargants so strong here, because he can kick his home objective and score 2, and I can't take it for 4 points. 3 point victory.
Second game against Stormcast on Tooth and Nail. This wasn't the strongest list around, though still had 6 Longstrikes. He gave me first, then proceeded to shoot Mannfred off turn 1 after I shuffled about, but failed to kill the VLoZD turn 2 and 3, who ended up rampaging through a bunch of units and healing back to full. Bella was clutch here in preventing the Longstrikes from Unleashing Hell via Lycancurse. 1 point victory end of turn 3 (time), though I was in a comfortable position holding 2 objectives.
Third game against Nurgle on First Blood, vs my competitive club mate who won the recent Purple Sparky Unicorns tournament 5-0. His list is a Befouling Host with GuO, 2 x LoA's, Slimux, 20 Plaguebearers then Beast of Nurgle spam. He chose to go first, and I was unable to stop the 20 Plaguebearers from receiving Mystic Shield and Fleshy Abundance. He moved up to cover two objectives, and summoned some Nurglings to block me. I had my VLoZD in an awkward position, and after much deliberation, elected to send him in to the plaguebearers, which was a mistake, only killing 3 or so and then taking a bunch of disease in return, then getting killed the turn after (giving him 2 bonus points and the lead). Bella's Exploding 6s spell was unbound and I wasn't in range of Mannfred's aura, so I really whiffed, but ultimately I gave him a free kill for nothing, The Grave Guard and Mannfred managed to fold his right flank (Slimux and 3 Beasts) then cleaned up the Plaguebearers, however it was too little too late. I managed to claw back 2 points by burning the left objective and claiming 2 for a turn, however by the end we were just grinding it out on 1 objective each, resulting in a draw.
Overall I'm happy with the list, I could consider dropping the VLoZD + Bats for Big Drogg but I don't own him. I just need to work on a bit of positional play now I'm not running Nagash and Blood Knights.
I do still want to try Blood Knights and Mannfred in Kastelai.
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I've had a query on my mind for a while that I've never really investigated/discussed properly.
Since the FAQ, Objectives that are on the border of two Territories are not considered to be Wholly Within either Territory, and thus can be scored for several Battle Tactics e.g. Aggressive Expansion.
Does this include the battle plans where there is a gap in between the Attacker and Defender territories? Do we consider this no man's land to be a territory, even though nobody owns it? (By definition, a Territory is an area of land that has an owner: "an area of land under the jurisdiction of a ruler or state").
It seems to have been generally accepted that this is the way to play, which is fine, though it does make some easy scoring e.g. on the Vice you can score Aggressive Expansion turn 1 because the objectives are at the edge of the table.
As long as everyone at the table/event plays the same way it's not a problem, though I do think that it's being played wrong, personally. I had assumed the FAQ was mainly there to address the battle plans where two Territories touched, for example Tectonic Interference or Tooth and Nail.
What do people think? Does it even matter?
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Double post
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Worth pointing out that the Deathrider BT requires you to still be within 3" of the enemy at the end of the turn, its not achieved simply by charging.
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I mean, they made the Wight King Command Ability only apply until the end of the Combat Phase, whilst this one carries through until your next one, so it's not exactly a gamey reading of the rules, it is simply the rule.
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1 minute ago, Wordy9th said:
As for rolling it over multiple turns, I'm really not sure on this. The text says that the unit cannot 'benefit' from the ability more than once per turn. Surely if they have +1 attack from last combat phase, they are currently 'benefiting' from the ability in the current phase, and thus cannot benefit again?
The Core Rules FAQ removed this final clause actually:
" Some older command abilities say either that they cannot be used more than once per phase or that a unit cannot benefit from them more than once. These instructions can be ignored because the core rules no longer allow you to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase."
As a side note, we can infer from this that "benefit from" means to receive, rather than be under the effects of. So if a rule says you can't benefit from something it doesn't stop you if you already received that thing (there's a spell that Teclis can do that stops you using or benefitting from Command Abilities, if he does it on Mannfred from example, that does not disable the aura immediately).
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The +1 attack is really nice, especially as you can roll it over multiple turns, and it can even be applied to a unit that isn't in combat in anticipation of the opponents turn.
It also allows you to turn the relatively weak 20 zombies in to a threat, combine +1 attack with vanhels on them and that's 80 attacks, an average of 13-14 mortals.
With several possible buff targets, you can flex as to where you apply pressure.
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1 hour ago, Honk said:
Looks fast
I always think three flayers are too squishy, but at 750 they might survive a charge and flee for regen 🤔 the damage output also needs to be considered of course, with 10 direwolves I could block an objective forever
not sure if
regent, 6 flayer, ghouls (690)
might not be better… throw in the lifeswarm to heal before mustering. Sadly 5 pts missing for the chalice 😓
Low points are always iffy.
I agree to run them as a 6. You might also favour Deranged Transformation on the Archregent, to give the Flayers an extra 4" of move. Stick them in Hunters of the Heartlands so they can guarantee to fight twice, and give them the extra attacks from Ferocious Hunger.
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3 hours ago, Btimmy said:
After playing with the normal VLoZD in Vyrkos w/sang and flaming weapons I have been consistently disappointed with Prince V. The lack of unleash hell, single d6 heal once per game, and one additional point of rend has not seemed worth the points to me personally. Just a few days I played him in Kastelai and still was pretty whelmed.
I havent been playing much with Mannfred, but good to hear you are finding good success with him!
Yeah I don't think I'd take Vhordrai in Vyrkos, but for Kastelai I think it's worth considering.
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1 minute ago, Wordy9th said:
This is more or less similar to the lists I run. Mixes of Vlozd / Mannfred / Belladamma / VL / Necro / GG being my staple picks. Feels thematic, balanced and fun.
I'm glad to see you fared well against the dreaded dragons!
Yeah honestly the game went almost perfectly for me, I had my game plan to absorb his alpha, then strike back when he was pinned so he couldn't overwatch. In future he will either give me turn 1, or go for the heroes with shooting, though I had the Vamp Lord 9" behind the Zombies so at least he was safe.
I did get a little caught off guard by the fact the dragons explode on death, I lost 13 Grave Guard to the explosions from 4 dragons after they killed them, though by that point they had done their job.
I will give this list another go, with Pack Alpha next time as Neil suggested, just to get a better feel for it again.
I also want to try out Blood Knights in Kastelai with Mannfred, probably with Vhordrai.
something like this maybe:
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vengorian Lord (280)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Battle Regiment
Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
Drops: 6
Or even with Bella:
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)**
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)**
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard
Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
5 x Blood Knights (195)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)**
Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Battle Regiment
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 5
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1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
That's nice to hear. It seems to me that people frequently ignore Hunter's Snare, and I was wondering if I am just overvaluing it. I think it has to do with monsters already counting for 5 by default, and the Vampire Lord's command being so spammable that you really want to have those extra command points in a lot of lists. But I think that having a model that can count for 14 models with no way to reduce that number is super solid, especially in a world of 5 and 10 man elite squads.
I suppose Pack Alpha is probably the better universal, TAC choice, as you will always get mileage out of it, potentially 10 CP a game if you go the distance.
Hunter's Snare may only impact a couple of turns at most, and as you say, the difference is only +9, and if you can get more bodies on anyway, or simply kill enough of the opponent, then it might not matter. It does, however, allow for a souped up VLoZD to act fairly independently as you don't need to completely wipe units to steal objectives, nor do you have to worry about only clearing screens if opponent has a monster that you can't reach but will contest the objective.
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Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Congratulations on the win.
How do you like Hunter's Snare on the VLoZD? Do you think it's worth using over Pack Alpha?
It didn't effect this game but I think both are really great.
Having Mannfred around means I never needed All Out Attack, and I was able to save Finest Hour purely for defence, so I had "enough" CP that Pack Alpha wasn't required, but of course more CP is always good.
Hunters Snare plus a unit of Fell Bats is 17 models on an objective, which I think is really great for objective play especially if you want to be aggressive, but I can't say which I think is better as I'm not sure.
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Had a really great game yesterday with a new Vyrkos list, it's nothing that breaks the mould but felt really good. Had played similar lists back in May/June last year when the book first came out, but not with Mannfred, rather with Radukar.
Played for the first time vs Stormdrake Guard, 10 of them plus the Hero, which was fun. We rolled First Blood so the mission was good for him with only 3 objectives, though deployment allowed me to castle up nicely.
I rolled quite hot on some of my deathless saves, I can't lie, and rolled a 5+ turn 1 to sneak back an objective he thought was safe to deny 2 points, however after 2 full turns he was tabled with the score 10-4 to me going in to a potential double turn 3.
The Grave Guard killed 4.5 dragons over 3 turns, whilst the VLoZD killed 2, then left the Knight Draconis that charged him on a single wound (which Mannfred pinged off with an Arcane Bolt), then the remaining 3.5 dragons with just his Lance and Maw.
I managed to get +2 attacks from Sangsyron, then rolled 2 x 6s to hit which exploded, resulting in 6 saves for him to make of which he only made 1, so 25 damage just from the lance.
In future we agreed he probably should have given me first turn, but the temptation to Alpha was there, and he had a very poor shooting phase turn 2.
SpoilerAllegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)**
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)***
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Vampire Lord (140)***
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Necromancer (125)***
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Battleline
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
10 x Dire Wolves (135)**
Units
3 x Fell Bats (75)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)*
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Battle Regiment
***Command Entourage - Magnificent
Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
Drops: 7
This list revolves around two main threats - the VLoZD and the Grave Guard, and everything else is there primarily to support that. With buff layering the average damage of these two units is below, Grave Guard having the opportunity to fight twice via Necromancer also.
You can tweak it to be 5 drops by only running the GG in hunters, but I like the possibility of Zombies with +1 attack doing 8 Mortals. You can also run it up to 8 drops by swapping to Warlord and getting an extra CP once per game.
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Gorgeous looking army!
AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion
in Death
Posted
Local meta is also important. You might not be able to attend tournaments, and only play the same people, despite having a "competitive mindset".
If your opponents are running Khorne, Fyreslayers, FEC etc, then 30 Skellies with the Necro/Corpse Cart package probably are a competitive choice.
It's all relative.