[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

Just now, King Taloren said:

Page 242 of the core rules specify that command traits and artifacts do not affect mounts. Command abilities, spells, prayers, normal abilities do work on mounts however. There is nothing to state they do not.

Well that solves that then. I'm still trying to pour all this stuff into my head since I've been out of fantasy since early 8th and finally had an excuse to get back into it with an army that has caught my attention.

[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

1 minute ago, christophe said:

2 characters then maybe, to pass the 100 euros value ? But not very common among SC boxes

 

I'm guessing they'd stick a Tidecaster in it, maybe a Soulrender if they give us two heroes, but I'd bank on just one.

[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

If GW gave us a SC box I'd assume it' be something like a unit of Namarti (likely Thralls), a character and an Allopex.

[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

Looking at the FAQs I noticed we can safely say saving up command points to cash in with Volturnos is a definite option:

Quote

Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same model to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase?

A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise.

I checked the core rules, General's Handbook and the Deepkin FAQs/Designer's Commentaries but couldn't find any references for command abilities and mounts, but I could have missed something.

[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

Right now it feels like the problem the Deepkin face is largely wrapped up in their limited options for supporting Namarti, the need for some points adjustments on certain units (Allopex for example) and generally a need for some more unit synergy beyond taking a King and Eels. I see see some options for running Namarti more effectively, but the list basically involves running a large block of Namarti up the board supported by other units while you try to tank wounds on a large unit along the way.

[AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion]

Jumping into the deep end here, but it's thematic I suppose: I just got back into the fantasy side of Warhammer recently (coincidently just in time for my flgs to be running an escalation league) and after considering building a 7th ed Vampire Counts style army out of LoN I latched onto the Deepkin for two reasons: I like the models, and my flgs actually stocks them regularly. Now I know that the most competetive option is eels, but as I enjoy the Namarti more I've latched onto focusing on them as the main thrust of my army. As such I've started digging into trying to balance the weaknesses of the army. As such, let's try and get a list going of the problems facing a Namarti focused list:

1. Low Mobility
2. Poor Durability
3. Low Bravery
4. Poor Synergy Options

So what can we do to mitigate these problems (spoilered for anyone who wants to just skip to the end and see what I'm looking at running and aren't as concerned with why)?

1. Low Mobility: Here the Namarti have a couple of options for support: Soulscryers and Rune of Surging Tide. Soulscryers allow us to take 2 units and essentially outflank our opponent's lines while ensuring a strong possibility of getting a charge, even on turn 1. This does mean we need to end our charges closer, but even the threat of this can force an opponent to take a less optimal deployment allowing us to instead us the Soulscryer to help us secure objectives on our opponent's side of the table.

The Rune of Surging Tide is a rather small bonus for the army, only really helping us dictate the army's movement on turn 1 or 2 if I'm going to be honest. Increasing our own movement by 1" or decreasing the opponent's by 1" isn't enough to make or break the game but it does give us better flexibility to ensure we get the charges off on turn 2 that we need to rip the heart out of the opponent's lines.

Now there may be other options but because I only have the Deepkin book for now, I'll have to wait to dig into other ways we can buff things this way.

2. Poor Durability: Durability has some obvious ways to be buffed: Forgotten Nightmares, Mystic Shield, the Gloomtide Shipwreck, and Abyssal Darkness to name a few available to us without getting into running specific mortal realms. Forgotten Nightmares means we can easilly control target priority against missle weapons, Mystic Shield buffs the save of a unit without generating a cover save, and Abyssal Darkness can serve as a way to generate a cover save when we're not in Low Tide.

For Namarti heavy lists special consideration should be made for Mor'phann enclaves. With a Soulreaver in a Namarti Corps you're regenerating 6 Namarti a turn, and outside of the Corps you're bringing back 4-6 a turn as well. Toss in an Aspect of the Sea and you're now bringing back an additional D3 with Cloying Mists. We're no LoN army, but when running Namarti heavy lists this should be a contributing factor, and it can play a key roll in supporting a larger block of Thralls (due to the discount for 30) as you can easilly push the unit numbers back up, even if you are forced to lose more models to battleshock (more on that in the next point).

One option I'm still struggling to work while trying to address the bravery issue is fitting in the Leviadon. While the large base makes it easier to keep units wholly within 12", the model's size can work against it for trying to protect a unit while also addressing the poor bravery of units. Paired with its high points cost and it competes with the more expensive, but also more synergistic Aspect of the Sea, which brings me to my next point...

3. Low Bravery: Sadly the hidden traumas caused by Slaanesh never really end since it leaves use sitting at Bravery 6 for a number of units, especially the Namarti who are more prone to suffering battle shock than other units. This doesn't mean we're completely out of options, but it does mean that at least for the first two turns we're going to be moving a tight cluster up the board to protect the army. Or rather, we should be running a large screening unit up the board wrapping around a couple of characters to ensure they get the leadership buffs they need.

Now the Aspect of the Sea actually shines here with the +3 Leadership to units wholly in 9", large base size and ability to increase that even further with Lord of Storm and Sea pushing that bonus to +5 inside of 9" and +2" for 10-12". That alone pushes a unit from bravery 6 to bravery 11, and pairing the Aspect's base size into the equation he'll be covering roughly the same amount of space with that 9" as smaller models do with their 12". Add in Lotann and that unit inside of 9" is now bravery 12 and if they're within 12" they're still bravery 9. Alternatively, if you're comfortable with a smaller unit, replace the Aspect of the Sea with the Soulrender from the Namarti Corps and you still have a 12" bubble of bravery 9 to support a screening unit with. Add in the ability to regain 6 models every hero phase and you're not exactly a slouch at tanking those casualties.

The downside of the Soulrender being the general of course is having a squishier general that could end up being hit by magic, so the Aspect of the Sea definitely deserves special mention for helping create target saturation and being able to potentially help regain even more models than the Soulreaver would alone. To this end, I'd recommend taking the Arcane Pearl on the Aspect as the 5+ shrug against mortal wounds will keep him running longer and keep him from needing to worry about healing himself as much (outside of his self-heal for not using rerolls for magic of course).

4. Poor Synergy: I don't have a lot of ways to really fix this one sadly. For Namarti the most important things are largely focused around synergies to increase their movement (Rune of Surging Tide, Soulscryer) or addressing keeping models on the board (Mor'phann, Leviadon, Aspect of the Sea) we don't have a lot of ways to meet those requirements while also providing bonuses to the rest of the army.

But that isn't to say we don't have any. Volturnos is a popular choice (followed by the Akhelian King), but honestly since he requires being your general to use his own I'd rather stick him in a Royal Council and use that Command Ability instead since the bonus to leadership mentioned above is more important to the Namarti regardless of unit size (and while Volturnos does give a +1 Bravery to units wholly within 18" on a good sized base, the Aspect of the Sea gives a bigger bravery buff (even if he's not your general) making him more instrumental to supporting the main line of the army). That said, extra attacks are definitely not bad and in smaller games I'd consider Volturnos instead of the Aspect to support the line, or take him as the General instead of the Aspect and deal with the +4 bravery of Lotann and the Aspect to anchor the line instead of the +6 from Lotann, the Aspect and the Command Ability.

The Soulscryer provides the army some synergy for mobility and I've got a general idea of how I'm looking at approaching this idea for greater benefit a little bit later after I talk about my 2k list. There is some synergy (as fellow ranged units) between the Allopex to gain rerollable charges if you can injure a unit with it's shooting and/or the shooting from a unit of nearby Reavers, and the smaller unit size (of 1) makes sneaking it into the enemy lines is easier with either fly or the Soulscryer's movement but I know that isn't enough to sell the unit to anyone as it's likely overcosted right now and that's holding it back. Morrsaar Guard though will still be seen as the better assassins as their ability to buff their melee by charging paired with the outflank of the Soulscryer and the ability to fly and dish out mortal wounds, so I'd consider the Allopex less of an assassin as much as a dedicated harrassment unit that pairs well with another harrassment unit (that could likely stand to go down a few points as well).

So what does this mean exactly for building a Namarti heavy army? Well generally speaking, the list is going to need a few things: leadership buffs, at least one large unit to screen the rest of the army from alpha strikes and ranged damage while it pushes forward, a means to increase the speed of the army for at least a turn, a way to put pressure on the opponent's army as a means of disruption to allow the main force properly position itself.

Now with all that rolling around in my head and trying to build this so the entire thing rolls smoothly I decided on the following list:

Heros
Aspect of the Sea (Arcane Pearl, Abyssal Darkness)
Lotann
Soulscryer
Soulrender (General, Lord of Storm and Sea, Rune of the Surging Tide)
Total: 740

Battleline
Namarti Thralls (20)
Namarti Thralls (10)
Namarti Reavers (20)
Namarti Reavers (10)
Total: 560

Other
Namarti Reavers (20)
Namarti Reavers (10)
Morrsarr Guard (3)
Allopex (1)
Namarti Corps
Gloomtide Shipwreck (2)
Total: 540

Total: 1,980/2000

So I really went back and forth on this one for a bit. Do I run 2 units of Eels or take an Allopex just because it looks cool and I can increase its odds of getting into combat by shooting with Reavers and its Harpoon launcher? In the end the Allopex won out, and if I decide to change things for the future I can easilly replace it with a unit of Morrsarr Guard and be snugly at 2,000 points.

So to keep deployment from turning into a field manual on army tactics, the general plan is Lotann and the Soulrender form the center of the army just in front of the Aspect of the Sea but behind the large unit of Reavers. The large Reaver block and the Allopex go with the Soulscryer to pop up on the opponent's board edge on turn 1 to claim an objective and harrass the enemy lines while forcing the opponent to deal with 33 wounds of models on their table side with missle weapons before they can target the rest of the army. If the Soulscryer gets the no-cover ritual off it's a bonus, but I'm not counting on it.

The other two Thrall units set up on either side of the Aspect of the Sea with the Morrsarr in the middle as the Aspect and the Morrsarr can jump out when the army gets closer to the opposing lines or hop over the Thralls to deal with units that manage to hit the Thralls early on. Command points will largely be spent on the generic command abilities (getting a 13" move out of the large block of Thralls on turn 1 or turn 2 with a 6" advance, 6" move and the +1" from the Rune is rather important to getting them stuck in for example).

I don't have any belief that this is going to be a top tier army, even if I swapped the Allopex for a large unit of Morrsarr to wrecking ball into my opponent's lines turn 1, but I feel like this is just about as optimized as you can make a Namarti focused army at the time and it's a list I'm looking forward to fielding, if for no reason other than to do something other than just run eels.

That said, I'm probably still going to build an eel list as I like the way that looks too.

And as a bonus for making everyone read through all my dribble, here's my WIP Lotann: