[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

the weapon range choices seem bizarre at times. like enlightened having 2 inch range, but bullgor great axes having 1. oh well such is life

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

has anybody dont a comparison of skinwolves vs two axe minos ? I want to say the skin wolves come out ahead

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

I'd hope we see some khorne beastmen to slot in at some point. Enlightened being better in combat or at least more reliable than bullgors is a little frustrating.

or at least skin wolves.... they fulfill that glass canon role better than bullgors I feel.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

49 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Exactly.  I would drop the Bloodwarriors, 3rd Slaughterpriest, perhaps the Bloodstoker, in hopes of also getting in a Ghorgon.  The Formation costs to do this is ridiculous for the benefit essentially of +1A on 9 Bullgors.  I would almost be tempted to drop the 2nd Slaughterpriest as well.

 

 

I've been doing fairly well in a moderate climate of tournament meta with a Warherd army.    And you play them for the -2 rend and 3 dmg and use other tools instead of the Herdstone/spells rend.

I've struggled with Bullgors at 6-large (they just seem like needless wounds) especially as I prefer to send 3 Bullgors, a Doombull and a Ghorgon at the enemy instead of 6 buffed Bullgors.

I only take 6 bullgors for stacking buffs on them and contacting multiple units at once, the hope being they break more than their points worth even if they die to a man.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

6 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

I like your thinking. Need some doombulls, at least minimal anti-magic, and some models to sacrifice to the herdstone, so 30 probably isn't reasonable, but how about this?

3 doombulls

7x3 bullgors

10 gors

10 ungors

cygor

Brass despoiler

1990 pts

Id have made a comment about having to go ham instead, sadly ham is not made of cows

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

25 minutes ago, Dracothjay said:

Guys, let’s stop the pointless bickering. This is an open forum where, naturally, opinions will clash.  

I for one rate bullgors quite high, whereas the next BOC enthusiast will rate them quite poor. Doesn’t effect me, I don’t care as my experiences with them have lead to great things.

Gors. I believe they aren’t anything to get hyped over. I ALWAYS take ungors/ungor raiders instead of Gors for the efficient point cost and also for their smaller bases, which allows me to pack more into a smaller area, especially on objectives where the rule set “more models within X inches” comes into play. Also they are a brilliant screen. 

Lets turn this thread back to enthusiastic topics for BOC players. 

Clearly the way to make bullgors work is to drown your opponent in them. 1600 points is 30 bullgors , just push through with sheer beef

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

It wasn't an argument for Bullgors... it was an argument for not taking judging everything for the absolutely minuscule chance that you will suddenly be playing the final of a GT. Because that's the gist of most arguments while, like you said, Bullgors are just not sensible if you wanna play for board control... However that rarely get's mentioned, and as I know from personal experience, reading comments talking how bad some unit you want to make work is going to hurt your enthousiasme. Especially for a starting player, where it could very, very well be perfectly be reasonable to play a doombull and 6 bullgors backed up with other stuff for the board control. 
So it's an argument for a more positive vibe in the community which helps new players better than a thread full of arguments why another army has better options. 
But just my opinion and after this clarification i'll let it rest. 

Good to hear! That's exactly the kind of follow up comment I feel is missing a lot of the time. And that's a 100% honest response from me. (before internet makes it come across as sarcastic)

But all the discussions about what it should be isn't helping any new players, nor established player get to that next level. So what's the point?
In addition to that: You can always find a comparison that's better. For example in your Orruk Brutes comparison: you don't mention the advantage of Speed or potentially ambushing or the mortal wounds which is hard to find. And most importantly... Age of Sigmar is played with different factions, so they need to specialise to be fun. I don't want Beastclaw to suddenly get ungors with ambushing. Way out of place and overpowered. Same for every faction, they should specialise in something and to compensate lacking something else. 

And @Dracothjay and @Myrdin thank you for the positive view. That way people looking for info can see the good and the bad. And judge for themselves

 

I understand what you are trying to say, however I agree with swamp heart in that we should voice our concerns and not engage in a circle of boundless positivity ,as only by voicing concerns can we expect to cause any modicum of change.

Further more sadly the bonuses the bullgors have are all in the utility department not in the area that would allow them to function as a hammer unit. Assuming all attacks hit, a bullgor unit would then cause an average of 2 mortal wounds (4 with the artefact on the doombull). But that's only if they hit with every attack, the reality is that a 3 man bullgor unit will cause a single mortal wound in a combat phase and find any debuff to hit absolutely crippling, so even their one offensive aspect is lackluster.

I've brought this up, because I am a less experienced aos player and want to see if it is a concern that can be addressed , because our book seems to not address it. However the replies seem to arrive at the same conclusion I found, which is the book wont fix it and our allies wont fix it, the unit is better served in a BoK army than in a BoC one.

I am also interested in skinwolves and who I have to harass for FW to print a viable monsters of chaos matrix

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

Yes and no, people are mathhammering  everything to death and claiming everything left right and centre is utter trash. 

1. Unless you want to go for the #1 spot in the most elite tournaments. Ignore all that. I’m convinced we’ll see enough lists  perform very well in the next few months. We’re just not a kill them all army. I’m my mind we’re an objectives army with great speed, cheap bodies, some relative hard hitting units, options for synergies and a whole lot of options in general. A mind shift needs to happen for some players because being an objective army  doesn’t really line up with the fluff 

2. Every time you read ‘sub optimal choice’ Or other cringe terms like that. It will be a perfectly fine unit for local play. You’ll Do better by improving your tactical choices rather than min maxing everything. Those lessons not only apply with Beast of Chaos but with every army you’ll ever Play. 

3. The saltiness is real... and everywhere. I collect several ( armies and in every single thread about those armies... people are b*tching that their favourite force isn’t strong enough. Or, in the case of Daughters of Khaine, that the army will be nerfed and GW is doing everything wrong  because  bla bla bla. 

Learn to read past peoples complaining or else it will hurt your excitement for your army. 

At least that’s what I’m trying to do, but it’s getting harder and harder on this forum. 

Dont get me wrong, I am sticking with bulls because I like them no matter how good they are, I've been using the minotaurs since fantasy days and I'll be damned if I take the little beasties instead of them now. 

However with the wealth of -1 to hit penalties going around I feel the bulls should have at least been 3+ to hit, or there should have been a way to give it to them inside the BoC book.  I played a game recently where my 6 man unit of great weapon bullgors charged Durthu , with +1 attack from gavespawn skill, +1 to wound and rerolls to wound from brass despoilers. He got his stomp off, and they absolutely bounced off of him, sure I rolled relatively poorly, but that was something that felt like it should have been a sure thing, specially on the turn they were basically blowing their load.

The spike potential of the bullgors is huge to be sure, but when compared to something like orruk brutes, who have huge damage potential as well , but are incredibly more consistent and yet somehow easier to procure buffs for, I get a little sad

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

To be clear, the bloodsecrator's banner definitely doesn't stack. It was open to interpretation initially but has since been clarified via an FAQ.

Correct me if im wrong but I think its possible to run the Brass Despoilers battalion in a BOC army and just take the khorne heroes you want as allies. 320 points gets you a bloodsecrator, bloodstoker and a single slaughterpriest... not ideal but there is some buffing potential there and that way your Bullgors count as battleline assuming a Doombul general. Unfortunately there is some redundancy in the bloodsecrator given the herdstone buff while anything that ambushes will likely be out of the attack buff range. Perhaps a better ally allotment is 3 priests and a Bloodstoker for 380 points. Leaves only 2 slots for BOC heroes but you may see more value out of the priests then the bloodsecrator, provided they pass their 4+ prayer rolls!

As far as I am concerned, BoC are not allies to BoK, the FAQ allowed the battalions to have the additional words and the BoK ally list to include BoC but BoC ally list only includes Slaves to darkness .

But id be extremely happy to be wrong

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Indeed the "Doom" part of the Doombull's name is subjective at best! Bullgors would go off in a Khorne army with those buffs you mentioned, not to mention a bloodstoker to increase their charge and reroll 1's to wound. However its a tricky list to put together. Something like this maybe... 

Allegiance: Khorne
Doombull (120)
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)

10 x Blood Warriors (200)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)

3 x Bullgors (160)
3 x Bullgors (160)
3 x Bullgors (160)

Brass Despoilers (190)
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 1850 / 2000

390 points is a stupid amount to spend on battalions however it makes for a two drop list and Gore Pilgrims ensures some reliability out of the Priests and extends the range of the banner (because if you arent getting those buffs onto the Bullgors what was the whole point?).

I would probably fill out the remaining 150 points with either a second unit of 5 x blood warriors in the gore pilgrims plus a CP, or possibly assorted BOC units that fit into Brass Despoilers, pair of chariots maybe??? 

It looks like a fun list and you would definitely enjoy charging buffed up Bullgors into the fray and hoping you kill enough stuff to summon some daemons. However I seriously doubt if it would be competitive. 

I actually have something extremely similar written out. But I arrived at the same concern you did, with 400 points being way too much to spend on battalions.

I however went for additional bull gors instead of the extra slaughter priest(I figured 30 inch bubble should be enough for the blood secrator). Kept my blood warriors at 5 and dropped in a khorne prince (as I felt there was no suitable combat general ).

I figured I'd play the reavers and warriors as pseudo screens and chaff, and rely on the bulls to do the legwork.

However I'd toyed with the idea of eschewing the brass pilgrims battalion altogether , and perhaps attaching say another bloodsecrator (I've seen a huge argument about the stackability of the buff ).

I truly wish bullgors were just general battleline as long as a doombull was the general, as I'd more than be willing to give up BoK command traits and relics to not have to take additional battle lines.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

42 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

You could buff the Bullgor'****** rolls with some slaughterpriests in a khorne army using the Brass Despoilers battalion which might be the key to unlocking the true potential of Bullgors however it remains to be seen if that forms the basis of a competitive list. 

I've been looking at that specifically, and it does feel that the bullgors are overall better in a blades of khorne army than in a beasts of chaos army. The extra attack from a blood secrator alone + slaughter priests bonus do wonders to truly make them into decent combat units. It is honestly a crying shame, that I cant ally those khorne characters that bring bullgors online in a BoC army, but i suppose at that point, bestigors would still be able to benefit from those buffs and be better point per point.

I see value in the doombull, and while he is relatively cheap, I am saddened that something that should be a center piece model has such few attacks, but I guess we can afford 2-3 doombulls for every vampire on dragon or maw crusha on the other side 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

So I've been lurking for a while and what I am seeing seems to be a consensus that bullgors and perhaps warherds in general are a sub par option in the book. There seems to just be an overall lack of way to either buff their ability to stick their hits . Am I missing something or is that overall the feeling here.