Neffelo
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Posts posted by Neffelo
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On 12/22/2019 at 10:32 PM, Sinfullyvannila said:
Don’t mistake my disagreement with misunderstanding.
The old changes were 1 1/2 year apart, on a 1 year change cycle. The hypothetical changes will be 1-3 months apart on a 1/2 year cycle
What about the points changes from the GHB 2018 to the BoC release? For instance the Tzaangor Skyfire on Discs went up to 220 in the GHB 2018, and went down to 200 in the BOC release, which was 3 months later. Tzaangor enlightened on disc also went down 20 points from 160 to 140.
In this case GW published points for these units, then went and changed the points and the warscrolls in the subsequent release. There is no reason to think they would not do this again with the upcoming DoT book.
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2 hours ago, Grimrock said:
Keep in mind that when Beasts of Chaos released the tzaangors got warscroll and point changes despite the fact that they were already a part of the Disciples of Tzeentch faction. I see absolutely no reason why the same thing couldn't happen in reverse this time around.
The main reason why I expect it is most disciples lists have been revolving around tzaangors in one form or another since the book dropped (aside from changehost). GW tends to address that behaviour with new books, tweaking the strongest models or builds so they're less optimal and buffing the weaker choices so people will consider picking those models up.
This exactly, I am unsure why @Sinfullyvannila doesn't quite understand that, and it has already happened before.
While I don't know if Tzaangors will be changed, I would not be surprised. Just adding in new subfaction rules can raise their power pretty significantly.
I am really hoping everything else in our book gets raised up, rather than just a Tzaangor nerf.
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34 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Anything Tzaangor is going to be unchanged. If they were going to change them for the book, they’d have just changed them in the Winter Ipdate for Beasts of Chaos.
Not true. They could have new warscrolls and points value in DoT, which will then just retroactively change them in BoC. It did not need to be updated in the Winter FAQ for this to happen.
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14 minutes ago, Overread said:
In my view the depravity point cost increases almost is worse than if they'd left it alone. At least in terms of internal battletome balance. By making the costs greater it puts even more weight on taking more keepers (or at least multi wound leaders) and maxing out the leader slot. So it actually makes the issue of taking anything but leaders worse. It also kind of highlights that that's how GW wants the army to work,, which in my view is a massive shame because it really cuts out so many great models and variations in playstyle.
When you look at competitive/good army lists and you've basically got the least number of troops for the least cost that you can manage to put on the table; that tells me something is wrong with the army.
Don't get me wrong, cutting down on what depravity can summon should knock some of the power out of the army which in a keeper/leader heavy list building on depravity is an issue.
While I don't disagree with you here, The issue is that GW would have to rewrite how depravity works completely to fix t his and that just was not going to happen in a FAQ.
Slaanesh is probably the worst tome of 2019 when it comes to internal and external balance, and in my opinion it would require quite a bit of work to get that back on track. Hopefully they can improve on this in the GHB 2019.
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7 minutes ago, Overread said:
Overall I've liked the changes, for a lot of armies this was less about reining in stronger options and more about making some less than optimal choices a bit cheaper to make them more attractive to take in armies. A worthwhile approach and an encouraging thing to see GW addressing.
Slaanesh I still feel has issues with depravity. The changes made might weaken its game impact now, but they still leave you with an army that wants to max its leader slot out (all 6 at 2K) and ideally wants multiple multi-wound characters, which pushes it heavily toward keepers. Furthermore they still want to summon leaders as they will increase depravity generation.
It still heavily undervalues troops of any kind and leaves itself open to focusing purely on one army mechanic of depravity generation.
Depravity itself also still generates the same which means a miss-match in performance when compared against 1wound majority armies and multiwound majority armies
It's very much a step in the right direction, I just wish GW had been a bit bolder.
Yeah, I Feel the same way. I think they went too light with the Depravity table. We will have to see if the locus nerf + depravity nerf will be enough. I think that people may bring more Contored Epitomes now.
The nerfs take Slaanesh down a notch, but I was expecting a bit more. We'll have to see how it works in play.
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1 minute ago, Overread said:
I'm not surprised to see a good few of those point reductions. That said in general AoS has run typically quite expensive on points model to model so seeing some come down is a good thing in my view.
I'm surprised at nothing on Slaanesh changing though unless GW is saving that for a bigger info release. It does give me a little hope that what they might do is address the problem which is depravity outside of point changes. I'm very glad to see plague monks getting a new warscroll because its showing that GW are willing to rework the rules not just the points.
I've long held that whilst point changes are a very good thing, they don't resolve everything. Sometimes you've got to deal with a core problem of the rules and stats rather than just adjust points up and down.
I am sure that we are going to get Slaanesh changes, I think there has been some errors and not everything is dropping the way it should.
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1 hour ago, Landohammer said:
There should be a price difference between bows and swords/scythes. There is clearly a performance difference. Though to be fair it should probably be a discount on bows rather than an increase on the others.
So, I could totally have seen a price decrease on the bows, that makes sense to me. I don't think increasing any of the options would have been a good idea.
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3 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
Yep you did. I will happily eat crow on this one. My list gained 100+ points. Pretty strange that Hunters didn't go up but whatever. I will take it!
Why is that surprising, did anyone think that hunters would go up? They are our most effective unit, but they are not exactly sweeping tournaments. It would pretty much trash the army completely if they went up.
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Looks like I called it with Alarielle!
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On 12/10/2019 at 7:37 AM, Landohammer said:
She was originally 600 so I doubt she would go right back down to that again. Remember that 60pts gave her access to glades, a better Talon, and a free Verdant Blessing. She lost the additional self-heal which was probably the most painful nerf though.
I actually wish we could take Alarielle and/or the Wardroth Beatle separate. Sometimes I want just a strong caster or a flying behemoth, and the model itself seems like it was intended to be removable.
Yea Archie is strong in KH list for sure, but I think if you are going to invest 500pts in a clump of bows then you might as well go nuts and run the Heartwood glade so you can reroll ALL hits with the bows. A branchwraith with the item and the Harmony spell will be much more effective.
Archie's command ability is strong but I prefer to use it on units of 6 Hunters, or even large blocks of Spites/Dryads. While it can reach all KH units on the board, it still only affects one unit per use.
While I agree that she gained several accesses with the points increase, I don't think anyone can objectively say she is worth it right now. While a points decrease could put her at her old points value, I don't think that would be too strong. Externally she is really not near as powerful as she was back in the day.
Speaking of Points drops, what does everyone think we are going to have dropped? My initial guess is at the very least we will see all of the Treelords drop in price.
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On 12/13/2019 at 1:36 PM, Forrix said:
According to Warhammer Weekly yes. Though I hope its not till January since then we might actually seem some MawTribes/OBR changes.
There is no way we are going to see any balance changes to those books when they haven't even been out 3 months.
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1 hour ago, Landohammer said:
So for the most part I think Alarielle is at least in the ballpark of a good cost. GW tends to price wizards at around 90pts+ per cast. So that is 270pts right off the top. So that puts the beatle at around 190pts which is really good for a flying behemoth.
Alarielle only starts to look bad when you compare her to the insanely undercosted behemoths like Keepers of Secrets. If you only compare her to tier B and C stuff then she is relatively reasonable.
Personally I wish they would remove her summon ability and make her 460pts. Maybe make her "soul pod" ability something like a deepstrike. That way she wouldn't dictate so much of our lists.
I think she could probably still be 40-60 pts cheaper and still be a strong but not OP choice.
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Just checked through the last few pages of the thread, but does anyone know the Nighthaunt list that took 2nd place at the SoCal Open?
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23 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:
That sounds interesting. I didn’t think we were getting terrain, and it still may not be, but if it is, could be cool.
I am pretty sure the original leak had endless spells and terrain?
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3 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
@Neffelo nah, it's people selling bundles of stuff like the OBR side of FoB along with warscroll cards and the battletome. If it was just the general release bits only then it wouldn't have lead to me asking the question.
So then nothing new? I've seen this pattern with every single boxed release. A lot of people/stores buy up as many of these boxes as they can then sell off the individual components. People may be also realizing that the FoB isn't quite worth buying multiples of as much as some of the previous versions were.
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6 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
So lots of OBR stuff going up for sale on eBay and FB selling pages.
Am I missing something or has the OBR bubble already popped before it really began?
Everything just became available for general sale on Saturday. I suspect you are just seeing people selling at discount on Ebay. I took a look at did not see anything out of the Ordinary.
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15 hours ago, Pigey said:
If I remember correctly one of them goes
DREADWOOD
Arch Revenant with Dreadwood trait and artifact 100
Branchwraith with Spiritsong Stave, Throne of Vines 80
Branchwraith 80
10 Spites 120
5 Spites 60
5 Spites 60
30 Dryads 270
9 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes 600
6 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatswords 400
Outcast Battalion 100
Spiteswarm Hive 50
Extra command point 50
1970pts
You can watch a game here (extremely well played):
Pigey,
Thank you very much for this!
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I've seen mention several times of the top winning lists, but I can't seem to find a link to any of them.
Can someone provide that?
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On 11/7/2019 at 10:07 AM, Neck-Romantic said:
Everybody:
Me: I'm still butthurt that the Bladegheist limited edition model has no rules
I just converted mine into a "vampire lord" with a unique color scheme compared to the rest of the army.
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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:
New list idea. Im all about Arkhan in lists.
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Lore of Mortisans: Reinforce Battle-shields
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)
Nightmare Predator (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 108
I like this list a lot a well! I've got a similar list myself
Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Units
6 x Immortis Guard (400)
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200) -
31 minutes ago, Barbossal said:
I actually feel like LoN is the one that needs the update. Fixing the Nighthaunt abuses in that tome would make it easier to give Nighthaunt appropriate point values.
Points values are really only a band aid with Nightahunt right now. It's also got a myriad of issues across it's warscrolls. The army really needs a pretty huge re write across the board.
Fixing LoN may solve one problem, but then we still have the issue with LoG. Nighthaunt is always going to suffer until it is it's own contained tome, imo.
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3 hours ago, Aelfric said:
Yea, I agree; Nighthaunt is in a weird spot - they fell between two stools, as it were. I've played quite a few games against Nighthaunt, but as I was playing Troggoths I reckon it was fairly even
The Nighthaunt book really needs a rewrite. It feels like it was written way before the other 2.0 tomes, and is really inconsitant. It also has awful internal and external balance.
1 hour ago, Barbossal said:Legion of Grief would like a word with you. Any army that can resurrect a unit of 30 Bladegheists for 1 CP is doing just fine...
Legion of Grief and Nighthaunt are not the same. This is really part of the problem, and I wish Nighthaunt would be it's own tome like Ossiarch. Having to balance the Nighthaunt units across three tomes is one of the reasons the balance is so bad. Grimghast reapers were fine in Nighthaunt, it was Legions that abused them. Yet, they still got hit by the nerfbat.
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1 hour ago, Izikail said:
Just been making lists with katakros useing mortis preatoriams so i still get the 1 better save then realised that petrafix get a better ca, atrifact and ct so its still not realy worth it
You can still include Katakros in the other subfactions, he just won't gain the benefit of them.
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11 hours ago, Malakithe said:
Doubt it. The reason Fyreslayers get away with it is HB have the combined power of battleline + elite horde infantry. They can be fast in certain situations and are one of, if not, the hardest hitting and tankiest unit in the game. So yeah people will be taking 60 of them. That is also 120W. The Guard are just more expensive skeletons. Single wound with a good save...eh. HB would easily destroy Guard.
Points costs will keep these guys from being 'op' or top tier
You can also give HGB the ability to hit first in combat and fight again as well. OBR don't really have anything that compares to that.
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I really don't need anymore Tzeentch Skyfires or Enlightened, but I really do want that new Magister...