Karragon
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Posts posted by Karragon
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8 minutes ago, Kadeton said:
Who's dealing enough damage to kill Archaon or a Mega-Gargant 2-3 times over?
My most recent game was SoB vs S2D, turn 2 I had 2 mega-gargants in combat with Archaon, 1 gatebreaker alone killed him outright without the other ever attacking.
The following turn, 30 marauders went into a cursed mega-gargant (with a ward save) and it was dead after rolling 1/2 the dice.
Gotrek can easily kill a MG in a single activation, let alone 2
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12 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:
I think that kinda goes back to winners and losers. The heal is irrelevant on a 5 wound foot hero with 7 bravery and a 5+ save. It's not irrelevant on Archaon or one one of the ten or twenty premier monstrous hero options in the game.
Even on Archaon and Mega-Gargants it's pretty irrelevant, D3 wounds out of a pool of 20 or 35 is insignificant and I've generally found that lethality is such that even 3 wounds aren't going to make a difference, when something dies it usually dies 2 or 3 times over
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Just now, Aeryenn said:
I have the opposite feeling. My games were longer possible due to mystic shield and heroic actions.
So far in all the turns of all those games I think 1 heroic action has made a difference. The heal is irrelevant, the dispel/unbind is pretty irrelevant, the extra CP might be nice but I haven't usually found myself scrabbling around for an extra CP, their finest hour can help if you use it at exactly the right time and the stars align for you so overall...meh, if they removed them tomorrow personally I wouldn't notice the difference
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I've played 7 games of 3.0 so far, they've ended on Turn 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5 so from my experience the games are on average shorter than they were in 2 and honestly less fun, this edition feels unnecessarily bloated with things that most of the time don't have any impact
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Just now, Marcvs said:
correct, my bad, I always forget the thunderhead thing, never ever used it 😅
I ran a double stardrake starcast list at a TTS tournament at the weekend whilst it did not go well I found the roiling thunderhead quite useful against things like 30 lumineth spearmen
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21 minutes ago, Marcvs said:
Stardrake no (unless you mean the bow of the Templar, then yes)
Fulminators yes
No for the rain of stars, yes for the roiling thunderhead
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33 minutes ago, Lord marcus said:
Wouldn't the ghouls be ineffective at 10 men each? Mainly because of fragility?
Sorry, new to FEC and just finished my once over of the BT
Depends what you're using them for, some lists they're only there to fill the battleline requirement. Most of mine sit at the back of the table stopping deepstrikes and holding backfield objectives. The fact that they die when sneezed at doesn't make much difference if they never get into combat.
If you want them to push forward and kill things then 10 is definitely too few but for most other uses 10 is just fine.
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16 hours ago, sorokyl said:
Not really a good time for Nurgle jokes bro!
It's the perfect time for Nurgle jokes. It's gallows humour and helps people deal with stressful situations
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It's the later. The Core Rules say:
QuoteAllocate any Mortal Wounds that are caused while a unit is attacking at the same time as any other wounds caused by the unit's attacks after all the unit's attacks have been completed
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1 minute ago, Kramer said:
Haha where you carrying a severed dwarfs head for all those slayers to keep running at you 😂
but for real they are such a bad match up for us. Especially when playing bcr. For what it’s worth I do feel mawtribes has some of the best board presence options in the game. Will you try mixed or full gutbusters?
They obviously thought I was the most likely person in the room to give them a glorious death, for many of them that was true. There were 5 fyreslayers players there and I played 3 of them, I only missed the other 2 as they were hanging around tables 1-10 all weekend.
I might try putting in a big unit of gluttons or maybe a max size unit of gnoblars but the big monsters are why I play the faction so won't drop them completely. An alternative I could try is 4 x 4 mournfang just to get more bodies and more dice rolling. Negatives to hit or wound are quite debilitating when only rolling a few dice I've found.
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Like @Walrustaco I was also at EGGS this weekend with a Stonehorn list (played on the table next to him game 4). I managed to go 3-2
My list was:
SpoilerAllegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Chaintrap
Slaughtermaster (140)
- Lore of Gutmagic: Molten Entrails
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Greasy Deluge
Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Gargant Hackers
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
Battalions
Eurlbad (140)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 81
Game 1 - Shifting Objectives vs Fyreslayers; 50 hearthguard with 2 allied gunhaulers. Very little to say about this one, the slaughter master tanked the canons from the gunhaulers for 2 turns then proceed to kill himself trying to heal and use his pot. Hearthguard do so much damage and don't die on a battleplan where they can just camp in the middle is brutal. Major Loss
Game 2 - Total Commitment vs Seraphon featuring Gotrek. Spent the game running away from Gotrek or feeding him mournfang whilst debuffing him with Greasy Deluge. The rest of the army was no match for a pair of charging Frost Lords and I managed to dislodge him from one of his objectives fairly early. Major Win
Game 3 - Starstrike vs Fyreslayers; 60 hearthguard. This was just a more painful version of game 1, of course most of the stars landed in the middle section of the table and I was just ground down by half naked dwarves that refused to die. Major Loss
Game 4 - Places of Arcane Power vs Fyreslayers...again. 30 Hearthguard Berzerkers and some Auric Hearthguard. A bloody game with 1300 kill points a side but never particularly close. I camped all 3 objectives from turn 1 and didn't give them up till turn 4. It took the HGB too long to kill the ethereal stonehorn and the mournfang managed to sneak round the back and take out most of his characters. This was the first time in the weekend that metalcruncher went off when a 1 wound remaining Grimwrath Berzerker charged the 1 wound remaining etheral stonehorn. The Grimwrath died then killed the stonehorn funny but too late to change the outcome. Major Win
Game 5 - Better Part of Valour vs Stormcast; Ballistas and Dracoline. His shooting was good and the Dracolines managed to kill the etheral stonehorn but I'd got too much on his side of the table in his flanks at that point. Huskard was the MVP this game, not only securing my opponents bottom objective but killing 39 allied pheonix guard, the general on dracoline, ballista and ordinator and half a unit of judicators. Major Win
A fun weekend all told, my opponents were all nice people. Though I was sick of the sight of half naked, mowhawked dwarves at the end of it. The army felt lacking in some way though, like I didn't have enough tactical choices. It can't zone out board space well with so few models, I can't be in enough places at once and my only battleplan seems to be "run across the table and smack things in the face". Which is a great plan until you smack into a unit that just doesn't die.
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1 hour ago, SevenXes said:
This is certainly an option but beware that Hollowmourne is probably the least competitive court out of 4 you can choose. You could make your Courtier your general, that would make horrors battleline and you could still profit from feast day and take an artifact of your choice.
If I had to choose between a TG and a RZD I would never trade my beloved AGKoRTG for an AGKoRZD.
If you make the Courtier the general then the Attendants at Court battalion doesn't work any more, it requires a AAR or AGK as the general.
@KibaWildFang I'm with SevenXes to an extent. The GKoZD is a buff piece, the GKoTG is a suicide bomb. I prefer the TG and people fear it so pile onto it, which is its intended purpose in that list. You could run the GKoZD to buff one of the units of Horrors, but then your whole tactic for the battle has to change.
Hollowmourne is just...bad in all ways, there's nothing in it that is worth losing 10 free feeding frenzies for.
There's definitely scope for a unit of 9 horrors. That's probably the change I would make to my own list after the points changes.
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2 hours ago, Tikhunt said:
I thought feeding frenzy was once per player turn? Have I been playing it wrong and its actually once per unit per player turn?
Feeding Frenzy is as many times a turn as you like and can afford to pay the CP for it, with a limit of once per unit. If you're running the Feast Day delusion one of those Feeding Frenzies per turn is free.
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36 minutes ago, KibaWildFang said:
Thanks for the input!
Now I’m thinking of cutting Stampede in favor of a second command point and Cadaverous Barricade to round up to 2000.
Another question: I know how important the AAR is but should I keep a unit of ghouls back with him to screen? What’s the best way to keep him protected? What’s my best way to hold objectives?My main matchups (read: the two friends I know who play) have Stormcast and DoK respectively. How would this list handle these matchups? Or am I better off changing lists?
I am not against changing lists, however I’d really rather keep a feast day list, and I really do not want to play Gristlegore.
Unfortunately you can't buy a 2nd command point, limit is one since GHB 2019.
Being below 2000 gives you a chance of a triumph if you have less points than your opponent.
Yes, a unit of ghouls to baby sit the AAR, especially if it's on an objective. You can also use them to deny space for the Stormcast player to drop in so he can't get anywhere near the AAR for a charge. It's hard to know how you'll fair against Stormcast without knowing their list, if it's a full shootcast list you're probably dead, with any FEC list frankly, we're very susceptible to shooting. If it's a melee list, provided you dictate the combat's you should be able to win, kill his evocators before they get a chance to attack anything important. GKoTG scream attack will work fairly well on them as well as their bravery isn't the best.
DoK is a tough match up, their units are notoriously durable and can put out huge amounts of damage to boot, you have to pick off their characters first which is really tough for us. Witch Brew is the single most overpowered ability in the game (imo). Try taking out the units furthest from the general first, they are normally the ones with the fewest buffs (the blood shield buff thing has a fairly short range). Try and overwhelm the units with multiple units going into them, if you can tag them at both ends to stop them piling in even better. With the exception of Morathi (avoid her) they are generally quite slow. Run away and force the death star to chase you so they aren't defending their objectives.
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6 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:
Hey all! New here and new to Sigmar/FEC. A fair greeting to all you noblefolk!
Ive been doing a lot of research, and this thread has been a godsend when trying to figure out different list builds. So far the list I’m going to build towards is based off the recently posted one, that did well in a tourney (the 4-1 one). I have no clue how to make a spoiler tag and organize the list like others do but here goes:
(Pretty much always going to summon a Varghulf off of AAR and Flayers off the AGK)
I wanted to give the Stampede a try. If I had the points I’d go for 40 ghouls, but I figured if it worked for a guy who went 4-1 it can work for me. Any tips would be appreciated.
Another thing: I really like the Charnel Throne and eventually plan on getting it for even nonfuntional scenery. But is it because of the new deployment rules that I see no one run it? It has some pretty harsh new restrictions and Im listening to the wisdom that says don’t fall for the trap (the AAR needs to be moving, casting and buffing, not sitting on a target in a corner). But even with it not being easy to deploy anywhere, it’s free, so is it still worth it for area denial in your backline or does it not actually cause enemies to have to come in further away?
Thanks all!
That's exactly the summoning I usually do with it. Flayers come on at the opponents table edge, usually to grab an objective or tie up an undefended war machine, don't expect much killing from 3 of them though.
General tips for that list then:
Keep the courtier with one unit of horror and summon the Varghulf in to support the other so they get death saves, can feeding frenzy etc.
The AAR is the key to the army, his buff spell is a massive range (24") but more importantly as long as he's alive the Horrors are rerolling hits anywhere on the board. Keep him safe! Even if that means holding him at the back of the table out of range.
The Terrorghiest will die. This is an inescapable fact of life. Everyone will target it with whatever they can to kill it as quickly as possible. That's fine, it's there to distract people anyway. Charge it, kill something. Pop dopelganger when they counter charge. It's done it's job at that point and can freely die (though with it's spell on it is fairly tanky 4+/5++/6++)
Ghouls make a good screen. They can also sit at the back holding an objective for the whole game without moving. Unless you're heavily buffing them don't expect them to do much damage. That being said, with +3 attacks and a Abhorant nearby the big unit is quite capable of taking down even heavily armoured targets. If you're buffing them though it probably means the rest of your army is dead!
Chalice is good for supporting the GKoTG, the quantity of models he's likely to kill means plenty of chances for him to heal. It's barely useful for the horrors. Ghouls will appreciate it but again if you're buffing them things have probably gone wrong. As it isn't predatory and has a long cast range it can be fairly effective as an obstacle, especially if it's base to base with the GKoTG and can stop units piling in better to him.
Stampede is a gimmick. Sometimes it will do loads of work, sometimes it will fail...and occasionally will come back and bite you on the backside. Large base does make it quite space controlling though.
Horrors work best against lightly armoured targets/hordes but with +3 attacks each weight of dice can even bring down heavily armoured targets, they're unlikely to kill something like Nagash though, best throw your GKoTG at him.
Throne can be helpful but starting with 2CP and getting a free feeding frenzy each turn, if you're controlling whats in combat well you'll probably finish the game with excess CPs.
People will under estimate the Horrors, use that to your advantage.
Your army is pretty fragile. Don't over commit to combat, the less attacks your opponent will get to make against you the better.
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1 minute ago, Phasteon said:
But thats not how it works.
Its just the general that attacks first and only in a turn where he charged now.
I‘d LOVE to play against an army focused around big scary monsters.
Don‘t know why it would be boring to play against.
Your general fights at the start of the combat phase, twice if you feeding frenzy. Then you go to normal picking order and pick another GKoTG and fight twice with it with feeding frenzy. Essentially 4 activations on your turn before your opponent gets to pick, if they've got anything left in combat at that point
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1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:
A lot of that comes from a lack unit choice.
Yet I still sometimes like to take my Ghouls out for a feast day now and then (which usually ends with me getting a whopping since I am out of practice and therefor forgetting half their rules xD)
Oh I don't mean FEC in general. I was running FEC to tournaments almost all of last year and both I and a majority of my opponents had a good time, Feast Day + Horrors is loads of fun or Blisterskin + Flayers. It's just Gristlegore that's problematic. It's the same problem as Slaanesh. Here let me attack you with 1600 (2 GKoTG fighting twice) points of my army before you get to do anything.
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Gristlegore never lost it, they're just monumentally boring for your opponent to play against.
The FAQ nerf put them in a pretty good place power wise, strong but not overbearing, they're just soooo booooring.
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And just to put the nail in the coffin, from the core rules FAQ:
QuoteQ: Some abilities allow you to either pick, change or replace a dice roll with the roll of your choice. Does this happen before or after any re-rolls or modifiers?
A: Unless noted otherwise in the ability, it happens before any re-rolls or modifiers are applied.
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1 minute ago, Forrix said:
Then why would they specify that destiny dice count as unmodified in their rules?
Because otherwise there is no way to determine if they count as unmodified or not because you can't reroll or modify them, so the existing way or working out if the dice roll is unmodified doesn't apply.
Battleshock DD can be modified so we can reliably determine if they are unmodified or not, which they are, because it is the value before those modifiers are applied.
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Just now, Daramiz said:
The problem is fly high is listing an exception to existing established rules (retreat). This is quite literally the rule establishing whether DD count as modified or not.
But there's already a rule that qualifies what unmodified is. "Unmodified dice roll are referring to the result after any re-rerolls but before any modifiers are applied"
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Just now, Forrix said:
The actual quote from the errata "In addition, any rolls that have been replaced (with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests) count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rerolled or modified further"
Pretty clear to me that its exempting save and battleshock tests from counting as unmodified rolls.
It's qualifying that the ones that can't be modified count as unmodified. The ones that can be modified are unmodified until you modify them or unless the rule explicitly states that they are modified.
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1 minute ago, Daramiz said:
An earlier paragraph:
In addition, any rolls that have been replaced
(with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests)
count as unmodified rollsI'm just going to quote someone off twitter to answer that:
QuoteFAQ: "If you use Fly High within 3" of an enemy it does not count as a retreat."
Therefore if you use Fly High from outside of 3" it does count as a retreat? Normal rules apply where not explicitly overridden.
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21 minutes ago, Forrix said:
Yup, I reread the errata. They FUBAR'd their wording so DD count as modified for save or battleshock rolls (or at least there's a very strong argument that they do).
There's no argument for it. Zero. The errata is quite clear it says "If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test, the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number of models slain from that unit as normal." No where in there does it say that Destiny Dice count as being modified, it says they can be modified as normal.
That's like saying if you roll a 1 on the dice naturally it doesn't count as unmodified because it can be effected by number of models slain.
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3.0 Actual Games Conversation
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
That's another thing I've found largely irrelevant. I don't think anyone, (myself or my opponents) has yet opted to go 2nd if they've won a roll off, 1 extra CP just isn't a consideration compared to getting to take a turn (Turn 1 excluded). The objective removal is pretty meh as well as I've previously noted most of my games end T3 or before so it doesn't make much difference, it's an after thought of "oh, I might as well remove one then"