[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Are you sure about that ?

I mean I can see him under the Beastmen tab. https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

The Warscroll builder is updated with the new stuff after each new release, so it should be fine to assume the old discontinued stuff would be removed no ? And since he is there, then he should be legit ? 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

So out of curiosity...

Has anyone thought of using the old "Beastmen" Wargor Standard Bearer", with our new shiny "Beast of Chaos" book ? (still salty they skipped bunch of our old units and heroes. I hope BoC do well and we get to see an update adding Gorthor on his chariot, Malagor, Khazzrak and bunch other characters...slim chance I know, but a goatman can dream)

In all technicallity they are still listed on the Warscroll builder on the official GW page, and as such I would say he can still be taken as an ALLY.

Plus since his ability is "Brayherds" not "Beastmen", it should still Apply.

Honestly if we CAN take him, then that changes a lot of the weaker units like Gors / Ungors, and turns them into cheap yet unexpectedly killy units. 

If those Gors were part of the Brass Despoilers, with the two Khorne buffers, AND Gawespawn greatfray with a spawn at that.... Yep those would be some Gors who are actually useful for once   (granted it takes a lot to get them to that point so... but if you are running Brass Desp. anyway, its a Win/Win scenario.)

But on a serious note - if we can still play the Wargor BSB as an Ally with our BoC units, that would make our Brayherd elites very deadly. While I prefer Ambushing MSU bestigors so this would not really affect them as much, I think this guy would be a MASSIVE Boon to the infantry Tzaangors. Yes they are expensive, but this guy doing  the same thing for them as the Tzaan Shaman saves you 100 pts so that balances it out a bit. Now this sounds like a very worthwhile thing to explore !

What do you guys think ?

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

1 hour ago, Amradiel said:

The more I read through the book, the more I'm thinking that I want to leave Gavespawn behind and go the Tzaangor route. But is it all or nothing with Tzaangor builds?

I dont see why you would have to drop the Gavespawn for that ? I mean they are Brayherd so you dont need to run Darkwalkers (and Allherd is just ....yeah we do not speak of Allherd  )

I mean Tzaangors and Enlightened both can benefit massively since they have 2 different weapon types, so that +1 does add on a lot.

But I if you run the disc version, then yeah, I suppose it makes sense, since they would outrun the Spawns in one turn.

...Its kinda weird that our monster things cant benefit from Darkwalkers. I mean Spawn and Razorgors.... if they could ambush, things might get even more interesting.

 

**I havent read the batt. rep yet guys. What gave  re-rolls are we talking about, and what gave it to them ?

(I dont have the time to read the whole thing, so I am asking out of curiosity,  in case we have access to more re-rolls other than just the Brass Despoilers. But since these are TZAANgors they can be taken in BD battalion.)

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Can we even make use of Bloodsecrator ?

Bloodstroker is fine, coz his ability states only "Khorne" keyword, but Bloodsecrators special rule mentions the Rage of Khorne, which even if you go with Brass Despoiler battalion, we dont have, and as such it is debatable whether our Beastmen can make use of his buffs

 

Still.... it is a bit dissapointed we dont have the "Mortal" keyword. So many more synergies would open up.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes-yes time to slay-kill

man-things shall die-Die.

(does anybody know how to speak-talk beastmen like?

i only know how to talk and write like a skaven)?

What jkav86 said, plus I imagine the primal sounds and body language being overlaped with some sort of broken linguistics, sounding similar to Azog and his bunch "dark speech" from Hobbit was.

 

There is an interesting manga (yeah yeah I know what you´re thinking, but hear me out. Dis aint the usual moe-goats stuff) called "Heterogenia Linguistico" , where a Linguist is taking a journey through tribes of different beastmen (so far there were werewolves, lizardmen and kraken monsters) and takes notes how they use different sensory input. For example werewolves talk little, but use scent. Lizardmen speak a lot but use colors as writing, etc etc.

As a beastmen and monstergirls fan (wish we had our own version of Harpies and those DoK Melusai :3 ) I found it to actually be a pretty intriguing look at this sort of topic when it comes to beastmen and fantasy monsters.
Link: https://mangarock.com/manga/mrs-serie-100224542

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

25 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Maybe its me but I think Gors should be 80pts per 10. Then they'd be the same point value of Greenskin Orruk.

Though I suppose the horde point then would be 60pts per 10, and then a max unit would be 180pts. Not sure if that makes them too inexpensive.

One of their problems is that their additional attack bonus works at 20+ models, on a unit thats 30 max. So you can't really take 20 since at least one guy will die to shooting or magic. Maybe they should have gotten something more like the Beastmen 7th rule where they could get Hatred/Frenzy on a specific roll?

 

Personally I think they should be 2A each. Thus even the MSU would be worth while, and big units of 30 could still dish out good amount of attacks. They are weak attacks 4+/4+/0/1 so even with big numbers they dont do much, on their own. Thats where magic and hero buffs would have to come into play.

And from fluff standpoint - Bestigors are pretty much just the toughest and meanest of Gors. Their "race" is the same.

Bestigors have armor, and wield huge weapons = 4+ Save and 3+ to Wound -1 Rend. Those 2A dont come from the equipment.

As such I would make Gors as 2A 4+/4+/0/1 as base attack statline, and +1 A if you have 15+ models (exactly of what you said - if you take just 20, all it takes is one guy to die for the special rule effect to drop.). But that is just my wishful thinking here.

This way you can go MSU and still have some minimal threat rating, or go en masse and have a unit that can dish out large amount of normal rating attacks.

*Also Id like to see the paired weapons being the same as Tzaangors +1 to hit, instead of Re-Roll 1s. Would actually make you consider taking those as currently shields are the superior option.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Honestly and sincerely..... No

I also love my Gors, but they are way to weak in this book and are stuck in a position where you either go with slightly more expensive Bestigors who put out much much more threat. Or mass ungor herds which are super cheap and dont matter even if they die by dozens.

Gors are in a bad place and were it not for the battalion restrictions I there is not much reason to bring them. They make for a good screen though since the 32mm bases they have allow for a wide footprint and as such can congo line pretty good as well. For anything else Ungors or other General specific Battle line are your go to guys.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Had a 1500 pts game today against Stormcast Sigmarines.

Won the game and lost only one Ghorgon and half of a Gorebull unit. Winning the initiative for 3 turns straight also helped a lot since he had some ridiculous unit that deal bunch of mortal wounds pretty much for free.

Some highlights: Great weapons on minotaurs are the way to go. You need some buffing though. Doombulls +1 to Wound and a Khorne Battalion that allows you to re-roll 1 to hit, If you can get them those, the unit can cut through 4+ Save 2/3 Wound models, like butter.

Doombull with Brass Cleaver artefact is extremely dangerous. -3 Rend is no joke and you can see the enemy loose color in the face once he smacks his general KO in one turn.

Gors are meh, even when 30. But they make a nice screen and if you keep them away until you can get Herdstone going (turn 3-4) to ignore the battleshock, they can tank. Until then, they dont do much.

Dragon Ogors are not bad. They can take a punch, although offensively they need something else to combo charge with them.... an angry Ghorgon is a good buddy for that

Summon a unit of Enlightened on Discs and tell you opponent what they do.... se him literally Running his wizard that was chilling in the backline towards his other units as fast as he can     

 

Also does anyone else have issues with the comment window ignoring what you type ? Its only on this board, when I am writing and suddenly the Enter doesnt work, keys dont register... And its not the keyboard at fault I made sure of that.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

19 minutes ago, Pandamina said:

You absolutely can go wrong with Bestigors as well as with any other unit. They require successful charge to be good in combat and as already been mentioned in this thread they are susceptible to rend attacks. 

Tzaangors on the other hand are better vs rend attacks and less charge dependent. Also they are not overpriced and i'd say quite healthy priced, because if you compare them  with gors (10 tzaangors vs 20 gors for example) they are already much better. And at 150 they would be cheaper than 160 for gors.
Skyfires are indeed expensive and i would like to see them drop 20 pts, but they are still worth it, because of their unique range output and decent melee after.  "On foot" version IMO would be really bad, because it lacks rerollable attacks from disks.
And for the rest of Tzeench stuff we have Tzaangor Shaman, which is obviously the best caster in the book and can for sure cast cogs for the first turn ambush rosters with his reroll.

 

Yes... well comparing weak basic unit of Gors against an elite unit like Tzaangors doesnt really sound fair, does it ?

Tzaangors - even IF they were better then bestigors (right unit for the right job. They might be in some instances but Bestigors are much more universal), they themselves get completely Overshadowed by the Enlightened who are not only cheaper, but faster, and stronger. Less attacks yes, but all of those hurt much more due to it being Rend and Damage 2. Also they dont need a TzShaman to be effective, but if they have him they are fantastic. And again - I cant stress this enough - they are actually CHEAPER. If normal Tzaangors were 150 pts, I would not be arguing here. For 180 they need a lot justification to make it to the table

Bestigors are fine even if they dont get the charge of, but of course they shine in charge. And you are not getting anything better in that price range. Especially if you are tight on points as I mentioned.

Tzaangor shaman for 180 points... yeah you can keep him. Its a lock and chain unit, if you want to run a serious Tzaan-anything you need a Tzaan shaman for it to be truly effective yes I agree. But otherwise ? Thats a hefty price to pay for a caster who is way overpriced. Sure a mobile fast caster is nice, but since his special spell works only on Tzaangors, not Skyfires or Enlightened, its use is limited, even more so since it can not create new units anymore and only replenishes existing ones.

In a non TzaanX heavy list Id rather run a Shaggoth as my 180 pts caster who can also fight decently and has 10 wounds with possible healing from abylities.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

In my last 3 games I used two units of 20 Bestigors each.
 

Honestly, while good in both numbers and strength, points wise and intent wise that is the worst setup. While you get enough bodies to wither most shooting and still have a punch once combat is joined, its quite a big footprint, not horrible but big enough to cause some head scratching when it comes time for them to ambush.

Tomorrow I am running 3 units of 10, which is more aking to suicide squads, but honestly, its easier to deploy, move around and manage. And unlike in WFB/9thA in AoS you can MSU your Beast infantry to a great effect due to how combat works (I really love this aspect of AoS). Plus Bestigors got so good in this book. If you have spare points in a thematic list and dont know what else to add, take a unit of Bestigors.

You cant go wrong with Bestigors.

 

Now if only the normal Tzaangors werent so way overpriced, they might actually be of use. Would not pay for them more then 150 per 10. Just not worth it. Skyfires are also too expensive. Would love to see a non disc -40 pts "on foot" version (and a -20 pts decrease from those 200 in general).

Honestly as far as the Tzeentzch stuff goes, as much as I like them, other than Enlightened, who are good on foot, and amazing at discs, the rest is not that appealing.

 

Also: Decker, Hi ! Great to see you´re still around, after Herdstone went down

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

11 hours ago, sambaker31 said:

I have recently got the Beasts of Chaos book and that combined with this thread is proving very helpful for planning future purchases and tactics, so thanks all!

Just had a thought, as I love the Beastlord model and want to use one in my herd, but the warscroll isn't that great (especially when compared to the Doombull) - what are people's thoughts on putting the Sword of Judgement on a Beastlord? 6 chances for the d6 mortal wounds (rerolling 1's), and a much higher chance of getting the improved buff for nearby units from slaying a hero/monster, could be pretty sweet in game if you roll well, especially on a 90pt model! 

One question, I've had a look and can't seem to find anything on this so it may be obvious... but with the Sword of Judgement the wording about the attack sequence ending is vague - can you deal multiple d6 mortals depending on how many 6's you roll, and then continue with normal attacks that hit (e.g. I roll 4 hits, with 2 6's so deal 2d6 mortals + 2 normal hits that need to wound, roll armour saves etc)? Or is it as soon as one attack does d6 mortals the entire attack sequence ends? The rules say 'that attack...' and then the 'attack sequence', so I'm assuming it splits them into separate entities? Certainly a good combo if it's read this way, but may as well go volcanic axe if it's capped at just one d6 mortal wounds!

Lots of monsters (mostly order draconis) in my local games, so the thought of popping up from ambush and potentially dealing crazy mortals with lucky rolls is quite thematic and pretty awesome

I personally love the Beastlord, and want to have 4 different looking ones, but honestly the rules aint that great for them.

As for the Sword. Honestly Vulcanic Axe from Brayherd Artefacts is much better.

With the sword you roll badly on that D6 and you are done.

With the axe, any 6 is one mortal wound, and your normal attacks are all 2 Damage each.

As much as Beastlord is relatively Meh, Running two, one with Gavespawn Blade (re-rolling 1s helps you avoid getting murdered by the weapon though self harm), and one with the Axe, is quite scary thing, Especially for them being 90 pts each.

 

Damn... sorry for double post. I am still fuguring this board and how to multiquote. Seem I cant edit the former comment either once few minutes have passed.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

On 10/8/2018 at 4:56 PM, merzbau said:

Here’s a bit of a silly modeling question- how are folks keeping their Bestigors securely based? I’ve started on mine and found that, much like Chaos Spawn or the Daemon Prince model, their feet just aren’t flat at all. At least with those models the feet are large enough (and few enough!) that they’re an easy pin,, combined with just tilting the model forwards or backwards to get one foot flat (Spawn) or putting something under the raised foot (DP), but Bestigors are all standing on the inside rim of their hooves and it’s driving me nuts. Little blobs of green stuff + super glue?

I always file the hoofs of my Bestigors a little to flatten then when put on a base. Doesnt really show at all once glued and painted and works just fine. Its a bit finicky and annoying as you will have to do that for every leg on most of the models, but it works once done.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Thanks both of you for the reply !

Yeah I think I got the gist of it. My idea was to drop the whole battalion at the same time, in order to have less deployment then my opponent and as such get the +1 for the roll off, but I suppose that is not really feasible with army such as BoC as we just have the option to bring so much stuff that it would be more of a detriment than a boon, not to do so.

I guess I should give the rules a proper read through to solidify the rules I have learnt so far.

The way I learned the rules (not all of them of course) I joined a local mini tournament where we went 3 games one after another. A sink or swim situation you could say. Thankfully AoS 2 rules are so much easier than the old Warhammer Fantasy, or 9th Age, that I managed to and I really like the way combat is resolved. No more unit Initiative, but one roll for the players.

The way I  got into AoS, well I was interested before, because daaamn those DoK Melusai and Khirenai are some nice beastmen themed miniatures and at first I just wanted some of those for the collection, but then got interested in the game as well.  Begun collecting them to get a 2K points DoK army.... but then I found out the Beastmen are gonna get reworked as the "Beast of Chaos" and I was instantly hooked.

But I digress, sorry  

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

Hey guys !

Old time Beastmen fan and player, fairly new to AoS (started actively participating in AoS once this lovely Beast of Chaos battle tome was announced).

I searched for a board with a live BoC community and this one seems promising.

As such I would like to pose a question to you fellow Beastlord, Shamans and Doombulls

 

How does deployment work, if you run a Darkwalkers army with Desolating Beastherd ?

Our rules for Ambush say you need to have 1 unit for each unit that is being ambushed. At the same time the rules for deploying Battalions state you always deploy the whole battalion at the same time.

So... if I want to deploy this battalion via Ambush, I need the exact same number of models on the table ? I cant use some of the units from this battalion to cover for the 1 for 1 rule ? .... Also.... with Darkwalkers specifically, you can deploy half of your Ambushing force on the 2 turn instead of the first one.... That also goes against the rules for a battalion deployment.

I am quite confused about this, because the whole point of Desolating Brayherd is to get your battalion into your opponents side of the table to get the benefit from it, but with the 1 for 1 deployment rule thats extremely hard to do, unless you run mass MSU list. 

Can anyone maybe shine a little light on this ? I tried the same thing with Brass Despolers, which is easy to do due to its low unit count (though you still cant come out on the 2nd turn if you run a battalion since you would have to split it for deployment.) and you can get enough other units to fill in on the table for the 1 for 1 Ambush rule.