DocKeule
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Posts posted by DocKeule
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Well apart from the void drum buffs all these effects only apply in melee and that isn't what Reavers are for. They should not be in close combat for most of the game.
Any thoughts on the new Gur-kit? Frankly I see another round of powercreep coming. This time it is not within any faction but something any and all player could and are supposed to add to their army. And to get it you have to buy a large kit of terrain that you might or might not want to use.
Also I am expecting a lot more planned obsolescence in the future with the new season supplements.-
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I would not say terrible. That was a standard profile not too long ago. (And Reavers had the same stats minus the rend.) It's more the low range that limits the value of this unit.
And being able to shoot without line of sight with a crossbow makes little sense to me. The Lumineth' ability is far fetched but this...
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25 minutes ago, Sonnenspeer said:
Maybe we meet each other in Oldenburg and have a mirror match. 😄
My List is a King, Volturnos, Storm Eidolon, Soulrender, two Sharks, 10 Rivers and the Turtle.
I hope not. IDK vs. IDK is incredible boring with no one being able to really play out the strength of the army.
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7 minutes ago, Derek said:
@DocKeule the thrall master does buff multiple thrall units. Just gotta be wholly within 12 inches of the thrall master
Indeed and that is the issue. Thralls (and Thrallmasters) have a very limited movement-range and you lose additional mobility and board control if you try to keep several units in the bubble (especially considering the charge). It is doable but you have to keep a good portion of your army in a circle with 24" diameter. -
7 hours ago, vinnyt said:
I could maybe, MAYBE see some use for him with either a single fairly chunky unit of thralls or to prevent alpha strikes from erasing your reaver screens. That being said, I still think that the thrall horde build is kinda overrated.
The thing is at 20 points more we get 10 extra Thralls and at 5 points more we could have a Tidecaster.
The only way I see to redeem his points is to have him buff several units of Thralls at the same time.
Well I might try another time to throw out the Reavers and maybe the turtle and bring some faster units. But I more drawn to cavalry-heavy builds still.
I have a tournament this Saturday with the following list:SpoilerAllegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Bladed Polearm
- Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Battleline
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)**
- Reinforced x 1
Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
Drops: 4I still have one Allopex from the "Fury..." box that I not yet decided to build or sell. I will probably paint it and would replace one of the Reaver units if I wanted to play shooty in the future.
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3 hours ago, vinnyt said:
Yeah, I think the all-namarti lists are a bit of a trap. They're just not fast enough to dictate ideal combats or tough enough to survive the attacks of what they want to kill.
Agreed. Unfortunately that is probably the death knell for the Thrallmaster apart from some a casual game every now and then.
38 minutes ago, Derek said:@DocKeule so I’m not sure how you wouldn’t make your charge with eels in ironrach you would set them to run and charge turn one if you want them to get up the board, auto run them 6 so you’re 20 inches up the board and then have a base +2 to charge from flood tide and the musician with a reroll. Now as soon as your opponent realizes what you can do of course he’s going to be deployed way back but if he has to deploy forward for some reason you reap the reward. If you want to be sneaky about it take a battle mage from cities and get another +2 to run and charge off the spell. So now those have a base +4 to charge and can reroll themselves because of the champion.
Is is not so much the question of making the charge but you still need a 4+ to cause a MW. On average you should get 3-4 MW out of six Morrsarr. A little better on bigger enemy units (especially since the rule doesn't say "unmodified 6" for the D3...at least yet). But with a bad roll you can easily stay below that.
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15 minutes ago, Derek said:
Well you have at a minimum 5-6 mortal wounds if you roll enough 4 ups or 6’s going into whatever you’re hitting, plus your 12 spear attacks at -2 rend on the charge if you position correctly for it and 18 eel attacks on top of that.
You have an average of about 6 MW. If you role poorly it could be nil. Also your charge-roll has to be good enough to have the six eels go in in a double-triangle to keep coherency. Otherwise only five will be able to attack at best since the spear now has only 1" reach.
I had a game yesterday trying to go all Namarti and it sucked:SpoilerAllegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
- Bladed Polearm
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (115)*
UNITS
20 x Namarti Thralls (260)**
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)**
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)**
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (500)
- Idoneth Deepkin Battleline (Enclave: Nautilar)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Artefact
TOTAL: 1985/2000 WOUNDS: 98
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/1 ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400
REINFORCED UNITS: 1/4 DROPS: 10I was playing against Sylvaneth and my opponent was pretty much camping as far away from me as he could killing me with MW through a spell portal and shooting. Barely anything made it into melee while he was summoning Dryads like crazy.
Might have been different against other lists but the lack of mobility also killed the whole fun of playing IDK for me. I am pretty sure I will not try that again. -
Besides Slaanesh just got updated (twice) not too long ago and the Tzeentch book is more than a year younger than the Skaven battletome.
Well, we will see. -
Supposedly some video on the Honest Wargamer channel said that Skaven is the mastery-Chaos-book this summer.
I would have originally expected BoC or even Khorne but since both have now gotten White Dwarf updated lately Skaven is a possibility.
Would be nice if Eshin finally got some attention and we would not be given just one hero on foot again. -
Double Sea I don't really find much use in. The IDK magic is not that great and you can only use the warscroll spells once per turn.
If you want (more) magic I would bring a Tidecaster and take the extra ritual. -
Oh boy I hope we will not get a King spam or that is the next unit they will nerf into oblivion.
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True, I was wrong. The Improvement of the chance to dictate the next turn order is about 17 % since there are six possible ties.
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2 hours ago, vinnyt said:
@Liquidsteel sure you can use your brain and do smart things, or just reflex take one drop every time so you can try to dictate turn order for a 40% chance to just win the game. I've never lost a game where I've doubled into top of turn 3 and I don't think that changes with the new book.
If you have a king nearby, the morrsarr stabby elves are already hitting on 2s without any CP required!
The impact of going first or second in turn one has very little impact on the turn order in the third round. Even going first in the first round only improves your chances of being able to chose in the second round by less than 3%.
I would say the main aspect is how easy you will get rid of your opponent's units on the objectives once he starts to camp there. If you likely will lose one or even two rounds of scoring going I would want to go first an get all the points I can. Otherwise I might like his units to come closer.
But there are few armies that are unable to make contact in turn two if the player wants it. -
39 minutes ago, HollowHills said:
Well I've got 40 thralls on the WIP pipeline haha.
I think you need to heavily invest in thralls for them to be worth. You need a turtle and a thrallmaster which adds a minimum 610 points before you even add the thralls.
I am at 40 Thralls right now (+ 30 Reavers) and I won't add any more as well.
I think Thralls can carry their weight if they are able to chose their battles. Support helps of course.
Also I think it is a bad design decision to make the Thrallmaster not a "Namarti Master" who does something for both unit types.
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I'm not sure about the 3 x 3 Morrsarr.
One trio will probably not kill the target and you don't want them stuck in combat. -
BTW: Has anyone noticed that Lotann's +1 to wound bubble does not exclude mounts?
Garrison him in a boat and his bubble would be prette big also. -
5 minutes ago, That Guy said:
If you are interested in such a list, you might actually consider a Mor'Phann sub-faction build. In that sub-faction Soulrenders get to add 3 to the slain models returned
I think a Soulrender makes more sense using Thralls. Your Reavers should not be shot at and unless the opponent focuses spells on them they will not have that many casulties to redeem the points for the Soulrender.
2 minutes ago, That Guy said:I wonder, do they include Entangled from sharks? What about the Thrallmaster fighting stances? These were included in the fury of the deep box.
They have 3x "entagled" and each stance once,
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Just picked up the book and the cards at a local shop.
Looks OK so far but it wouldn't have hurt them to give us an extra marker sheet. Now the We have one where the tides and the rituals are printed on one side and the tactics are on the backside. Also there are no markers for the mount traits and bubbles. -
Could work. A couple of Reavers staying behind and maybe holding objectives and pairs or trios of sharks going forward.
The Soulrenders I don't see doing too much here. The opponent would probably concentrate on the sharks so they won't bring to many Reavers back and do nothing otherwise. -
30 minutes ago, That Guy said:
Curious question, why did you go for the Surging Gloomtide artefact over making the King even killier? Is it for screening purposes?
I am hoping to be able to throw it far enough that it might give the Thralls the ward when they arrive in the mix. Maybe even garrison them (or Lotann or the Tidecaster) there in the center to protect them. Also of course just an obsticle for
I considered the "Amulet of Destiny" on the King also.
35 minutes ago, That Guy said:I was already looking at the Morssarr Guard instead of the Ishlaen.
My main hope there is to be able to have them charge every turn and get the better spear profile. With the Ionach heroic action they should be able to run and charge or retreat and charge every round. Only question is how quick they crumble.
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I switched my list for the TTS League a little after reconsidering the Ishlaen Guard.
SpoilerAllegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Bladed Polearm
- Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (115)*
Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (165)*
- Retarius Net Launcher
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 4
Also I want to go all in on Namarti in a local game against Sylvaneth in the next couple of days.SpoilerAkhelian King - 250
Thrallmaster - 110
Thrallmaster - 110
Tidecaster - 150
Lotann - 115
20 Namarti Thralls - 260
20 Namarti Thralls - 260
10 Namarti Reavers - 170
10 Namarti Reavers - 170
Leviadon - 500
2095/2000I am still 95 points heavy. I have already dropped 10 Reavers and I don't want to cut more Namarti. Also I would like to keep both Thrallmasters to have one with each block of thralls and ideally even get two effects on one or both units.
So it's down to King (and bring a Soulrender instead), Tidecaster or Lotann.-
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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
I struggle to ever add a leviadon
Probably only worth the points if you go really all in with Namarti. At least the +1 to hit is about the only buff that still applies to Reavers as well. But otherwise it will be hard to redeem those 500 points.
3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:I really struggle with eels - honestly, they‘re just bad imo.
Ishlaen might still have a place screening and stalling units with high rend attacks. Screening the shooting I guess they have run their course. At a 4+ save (unless against "unleash hell" when they charged) they will die pretty quickly and other units with "allout defense" and/or mystic shield and with Namarti the boat are more tanky.
Morsarr my be seeing some renaissance. With the Ionrach heoric action you could make sure that one unit get's to charge every round and can use the improved profile on the spears. We won't go back to spamming them but one unit of 6-9 might be doing something. -
Exactly. There is nothing saying that the player who's turn it is starts in any (let's call it) sub-phase. but that both players fight alternately starting with the player who's turn it is and then go through "fight at the start" - "no special rules" - "fight last".
Unfortunately GW did not give the first player in their example a unit with neither of both effects. That would have answered the question (one way or the other). -
9 hours ago, vinnyt said:
Sorry @DocKeule, but @Liquidsteel is correct. The way it works is that the "fight first phase" is basically a smaller combat phase where opponents alternate units with the "fight first" ability. When those are resolved, the regular combat phase occurs, with the priority-holding player (the player whose turn it is) choosing a unit to fight, then the opponent alternating. It may be a more ambiguous in the german translation but in the english version it's pretty clear.
So again: What wording are you basing that interpretation on?
Nowhere in the later rules 12.0 is negated other that there might be models/units that must fight at the beginning of the combat phase or at the end of the combat phase.
Also no wording that I can find states that there three different combat phases als your interpretation implies. It is always the combat phase - singular.
In your interpretation there would be extra phases be generated once "fight at the start" and/or "fight at the end" abilities would apply.
Also it would mean that "fight last" could also let the player who has the initiative activate twice in a row. And again I don't the what wording that would be based on.-
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AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion
in Order
Posted
They would hit on 3+. You get -1 to hit on "unleash hell"
Other than that I don't think a Thrallmaster would be worth his points buffing only Reavers at all. A Soulrender might be if there is enough left for him to bring back models to for enough turns.
That might work in scenarios with few objectives in the middle of the table where you don't have to work the whole table.
Still on one hand this only works under the condition that you get the first initiative and that your Thralls delete the first target they fight against (and not get decimated or even destroyed before they can fight a second time.)