Magnus The Blue

November 16, 2018

Off the top of my head

Arcanite Cultists: 160

Tzaangor: 360

Enlightened (assumed on disks): 140

Skyfires: 200

Shamman: 180

So 1,040 without any battalions or 1k on the nose if you put the Enlightened on foot

November 16, 2018

The Changecult box is much better in terms of competitive matched play options. Screamers, flamers and burning chariots all over costed, so you'll only really use the Pinks and Herald on foot if you are looking to win match play games.

November 1, 2018

You forgot to allow for Mutants, but generally, I agree with what you're saying, Tzaangor have (post BoC changes) ok melee damage, a great banner and top notch resilience per point (8 points per wound with a 5+ and 6++).

October 22, 2018

9 minutes ago, P'tarix said:

True, but that would only be a single model, not half an army. And also only from combat, not universal. But yeah screamers do lack damage output i agree.

Also the problem with the above is that LoC always wants to take the mark of the conjurer, so other artefacts are less valuable, unless you take 2 lords of change..

2 LoC wouldn't help as you can only have one general.

Personally, I don't think the Mark is that good, worth at most 3 extra fate points a turn (with Cogs) but usually only 1 or 2. which means an extra many 100 points worth of summoning over the entire game (so of which will arrive too late in the game to have much impact). Usually, I'd rather have -1 to hit in combat for the LoC or Arcane Sacrifice for a mortal hero.

October 22, 2018

Screamer don't really have the damage output to justify increasing their resilience.

If you really want to stack to-hit modifiers, Lord of Change is the way to go. Easy access to -2 in combat (Incorporeal form and Gryph Feather/Miasmi Blade), -3 if the firer has been Geminids, good damage output and innate spell protection (the easiest way to kill a to hit modifier stacked unit).

October 22, 2018

The problem with the Eternal Conflagration is that it contains a warpflame host , so tough to fit into a standard list unless you use burning chariots as battleline (but they are awful and don't get the -1) . Tried it once but you end up with so few models on the table that no amount of -1 to hit will keep you alive past a few turns.

I imagine it'd be ok at 3k, as you could really cram in a lot of flamers at that point, but I rarely get to play at that level.

October 17, 2018

9 hours ago, Rarity Nouveau said:

So last year I got three of the Arcanites boxes, and three other tzaangor boxes and so far out of the 90 Tzaangors I have, I’ve assembled 40 of them. I did both units containing max mutants, max greatblades, and one command squad each, with the remainder filled by sword and shield. So that comes out to:

8 mutants

16 savage greatblades (includes both Twistbrays)

2 banners

2 musicians

12 S&S

My question is, how do I assemble the remaining Tzaangors? A lot of the lists I’m seeing don’t have mutants on there for some reason, but from what I can tell there’s no reason not to take them. I also see that most lists run 1-2 shields in 20 blocks, so would I be severely punished for having more than that? Do I also go for the maximum banner and musicians now that we’re set to 1 per ten? And finally, what do I equip the Twistbrays with?

Nope, no reason not to take max mutants.

With the latest warscroll there is no benefit to having more than one shield in a unit, but it isn't a major issue having a few in there, it's rare you'll have all in range to fight and you can just take off the shields first.

I always equip the command models all with Greatblades,, requires a bit of conversion but means you don't end up with tough choices between removing great blades or command models. Especially true of the Twistbray who is a mini blender with extra attack, +1 to wound, +1 to hit and a great blade.

No harm taking max musicians and banners, also makes it easier to switch between unit sizes.

October 16, 2018

So with BoC now out and are Tzaangors geting 'Brayherd' keyword, very tempted to for a Tzaangor heavy list with Brayshamman (s) and Beastlord as allies. Annoyingly you also need an Arcanite character nearby too to get the +1 to wound, but if buffed up Tzaangor units become a lightning fast blender of a unit.

Tzaangor Shamman

2* Beastlords

2* Great Bray Shamman

3* 20 Tzaangor

6 * Enlightened on Disk

Simple tactics of rush across the board turn one and start smashing face. With 9" move and run before charge you should get at least one unit of Tzaangors and the Enlightened in combat turn one. By turn two it should be a big bloody melee where the Beastlords command ability shines.

The core question is do I run it as BoC or DoT. Destiny Dice are great, but are they worth giving up Ambush, Herd stone and potentially a Great Fray for?

October 13, 2018

I think some BoC units as regular allies is the best thing about the new Beasts book (for Tzeentch armies), Great Bray Shamans and Beast lords would be great in any force with lots of Tzaangor.

Dragon Ogres are a greatand cheap tanky unit which we don't really have access too inside our book. Also, can't wait to convert a Tzaan-Ghorgon with spare LoC bits.

October 11, 2018

1 hour ago, Drib said:

For me it was the Sword. As it has 4 Attacks per Battleround with 4+/2+/-2/3 . Still there is no true winner as it is preference and playstyle depending.

But as I am re-reading the Lord of Change's Description it's either Staff+Sword, Staff+Rod or Staff+Beak .. I always assumed he could "Sword, Staff and Beak".

Sword is my favourite option too, great with Arcane Transformation and amazing if you have some 2s and 4s in your destiny dice, Nothing like hitting someone with 3 rend -2 damage 3 attacks without rolling a dice.

36 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

How have people been finding LoC since the points hike/2.0 drop? He seems really high for what he brings to the table nowadays imo. I feel like I could just take any 2-3 other casters for the same points and get far more work done.

1

Entirely depends on the rest of your list, casting along is probably not worth it. That said, an undamaged LoC does average 6 MW from it's spell, which is more than most wizards can do with 2 casts.

In a mostly demon list it's ability to hold it's own in combat (unlike any other Tzeentch demons) and the command ability makes it a reasonably priced addition. Firing the command ability 2-3 times in a turn when your rocking lots of demon wizards can make for a devastating magic phase, easily capable of throwing out 20+ mortal wounds and gutting an enemies heroes or elite units. Also easily the best unit for getting the most value from artefacts and command abilities. Against some armies, a -2 to hit monster with buckets of wounds (that you'll struggle to take down with spells) is an absolute nightmare to deal with. If your feeling particularly nasty, hit a unit with Germin of light before charging with the LoC, nothing if very scaring with -3 to hit!

October 9, 2018

Arcane cabal seems like a waste of points with only 2 casters in it. You could use those points and the two 20 point endless spells to upgrade your acolytes to pink horrors. Means you've got the same number of spells, don't have to keep those 3 heroes together and tonnes of blue horrors later in the game.

Also Q swords is just a bad idea if you've got demon's in the list.

October 9, 2018

19 minutes ago, Fenomeen said:

Hi all,

New player here and I am feeling this faction!

I'll be playing 1250 locals primarily and was thinking about the following list

1240 points
1 lord of change
1 gaunt summoner
3 pink horrors
1 umbral portal
1 soulsnare shackles

Seems like a cool controle list i'm a bit undecided on the spells/traits/items yet but I have this as a skeleton for 1250 . What do you guys think?

Feels very fragile to me, if you lose the two characters you can no longer summon all those blue horrors the Pinks will be producing. Would prefer switching one of the units of Pinks for 10 Tzaangor to provide some combat punch and protection for the Gaunt Summoner. Also, if you have the models, Gaunt Summoner is about a million times better with the familiars.

As for traits/items, if you feeling mean stacking minus to hit on the LoC is nasty at this size game: incorporeal form and Gryph Feather charge would make it a nightmare to take out.

October 7, 2018

It's in the Silver tower errata. Yup, big deal and makes it an outstanding hero.

Yes, got to keep it away from heroes. Not useless but definitely harder to use now.

October 5, 2018

3 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Fair point that the unmodified 6 to hit for MW can be useful.

But it seems to me like 40 Ungor Raiders (320 pts) are just straight up better at shooting and way cheaper than 2 units of Skyfires (400 pts), though. If you ambush with Raiders then their reduced range (18") isn't a huge deal. And when ambushing with the Brayblast Trumpet and the Desolating Beastherd Battalion you can expect to deal over 22 wounds (before saves) from a block of 40. Even without Brayblast trumpet or Desolating Beastherd, they still inflict on average about 11 wounds per shooting phase. Whereas 2 units of Skyfires will give you roughly 6 to 7 wounds per shooting phase for 80 more points.

I think the Skyfire models are pretty cool, but I'm having trouble justifying taking them.

I think Ungor raiders are a completely different kettle of fish (and only Allies in DoT, which is the focus of this thread). 18" range and 40 models to get in range is very different from 3-6 models at 24" range (ambush helps you get in range, but you're still in charge range of most units after shooting them).

That said, this last nerf feels like it's a bit too far (after the point rise) and doesn't make them unplayable but I can't see them making it into many competitive lists.

October 3, 2018

2 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

What do you think is Tzeentch's best stand out battleline?

Tzaangors are a great melee unit, and hardy with their 6++ and 2 wounds a piece. Also access to rend which is hard to find for Tzeentch. I think the typical size is 10-20 nowadays? 32mms are hard to get into reach.

Kairics are cheap all rounders with OK range and OK melee. Only issue is that they're largely considered 'battleline tax' and people rarely take more than 10 at a time, so they're probably not going to last long. (Is there any merit to taking large amounts of Kairics?)

Pink Horrors are interesting in that they're actually 50 wounds in a 10 wound can. They're wizards, which helps out a lot, and they have nice shooting and self-regeneration. Absolutely ass in melee though. Can become monetarily expensive what with needing 20 blues and brimstones per 10 pinks.

I haven't seen many people use the Tzeentch marked STD units, but from what I know, squads of 5 sword n board warriors are hardy speed bumps for the enemy to crash into.

What's the best combination of these, you think? 1-2 pinks and a unit of 20 Tzaangors is probably a good pick, imo, with a shaman to back them up. Good ranged and good melee.

Horrors are such an odd unit and take some getting used to, but can be really powerful. Also a great use of and 1s for destiny dice, I once got a unit from 10 to 20 just by using arcane sacrifice and 1s for battle shock every turn (and some nice rolling). The problem with them is their 1 of their 2 main abilities requires them to die (spells and splitting, their shooting is meh for a 20 point model), so if you play them too aggressively they get killed off and no more magic for you but if you hold them back too much no splitting and you have just got an overpriced caster unit. The trick is to get them engaged with units that will cause some but not allow of casualties to them so you can make the most of splitting and cast spells. They work best if there are demon characters around for locus and LoD for further casting bonus (again LoC better with more demon characters). Very little reason to ever take more than minimum size units.

Tzaangors are a bit more point and click, but don't forget how devastating their banner can be if your wizard heavy. I'd got for units of 10 if you are going to reliably get 5+ dice for the banner or 20 if your not.

October 2, 2018

If Enlighten had the Skyfire ability, they would be crazy good alright.

Best way to use the Enlighted in my experience is a big group (9) so they can soak wounds, fold reality for crazy healing and Karios to save them from those pesky 1s.

Obviously, not a valid tactic for Beasts, but those rerolls are so powerful it is often worth them taking some beatings.

September 28, 2018

20 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Their official aos base is huge. 50mm if I remember correctly.

Just looked it up, 60mm!!! Despite they are always packaged with 32mm. Seams fishy, I've sent GW an email to confirm.

9 minutes ago, ledha said:

is there anything that prevent a tzeentch player to run the old tzaangors/enlightened/skyfires/tzaangor chaman warscroll and not the one from BOC ?

Yes, the Designers commentary explicitly says you should always use the most recent warscroll (they are all free to download).

September 28, 2018

Had a game last night and much to my surprise the real standout unit was 6 screamers. They didn't do a lots of wounds but the combination of being super fast, reasonably tanky (18 wounds and -1 to hit), flying and having relatively small bases (can fit in small spaces) means they are great for capturing and protecting objectives. Nice to see a unit I usually take resentfully to fill up a Changehost actually pulling it's weight. Probably still not going to field the 30 I own

September 27, 2018

I've been thinking about the Herald on Burning Chariot recently and wonder if it is worth comboing with some endless spells. Specifically- Balewind Vortex for 15" range on Tzeetch's Firestorm, or even better (but more expensive) Spell Mirror to drop the spell in the middle of the opponent's army without putting the herald in harms way. Both costly combos and need some casting boost to get the 9+ regularly, but feels like it could be worth it against any army with MSU (multiple small units). Anyone tried it or got any ideas for how to best use the Herald on Burning Chariot?

September 24, 2018

2 hours ago, Qaz said:

It is tempting to sit back and just shoot a spell through the portal every turn but my plan is slightly different. I plan to use the portal to snipe key character pieces like Hag queens, Bloodsecretors, knight incantors etc. Then move the LoC forward, either ignoring the portal entirely or have the pinks have fun throwing spells thought it. I think that's worth 60 points to have that utility but a lot more game time needed to see if it's worth it.

Can always dispel the portal and summon it back if I need it. If it's not working out, the Doomblast Dirgehorn looks like a good replacement.

...................

I have tried this build and it works but after awhile, people learn to bog down the big bird instead and keep vulnerable targets out of reach. It is tanky and hard to deal with though especially with Cogs' reroll saves.

So, I am exploring other builds at the moment.

Will be interesting to see how the portal goes for you. I do like the idea of being to throw out a long range Gate from the LoC turn one, potentially from outside dispel range.

Personally, not convinced by the Dirgehorn, since only the Shaman can cast and Germinds will have the same effect and some mortal wounds too (although obviously more likely to backfire).

September 24, 2018

5 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
The Blue Scribes (140)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Balewind Vortex (40)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 38

Aside from what's visible, what other Daemons do I need to buy to get it going? So far my shopping list looks like this

Start Collecting Tzeentch (convert blue scribes out of chariot)

Gaunt Summoner

Ogroid

1x Pink box

4x Blues/Brims boxes

Does that sound right?

I mostly play pure Demons and they are good fun, but you've got to be really careful building list, especially at low points. Almost every unit is low on wounds (for the points) except for Blues and Brimstones, which means is very easy to get wiped out before you can summon in reinforcements (from Pinks splitting if nothing else). So at 1k, I'd have 1 endless spell max to make sure you have enough bodies.

I don't think the blue scribes are worth it at this points level, once your pinks are dead you've only got 3 wizards left. Better to have a herald (on foot) to boost the MW output. If you really need a spell to go off, you've always got destiny dice.

Treacherous bond doesn't feel like the best choice on the Gaunt Summoner, it already has 9 wounds thanks to familiars. I'd recommend making it your General with Arcane Sacrifice and Bolt of Tzeentch spell, since it has two casts and doesn't want to get close, so makes a lot of use from the extra range and re-roll.

I'd loce to say put in some flamers and screamers, but neither are very good and you don't really have the spare points at this level for any.

September 21, 2018

1 hour ago, PlayerOfGames said:

Impressive display from the Changeling ?... I would not count on it to always work like this, though. Probably your opponent was unaware of the danger. He could have deployed half his army in the Celestial Realm, and deploy the rest in a more widespread zig-zag formation. Then the pendulum would probably only hit 2 or 3 units. A Knight-Incantor can auto-dispel it, of course ... I guess the Changeling died immediately after this heroic act?

You can change your entire deployment to try and counter it, but that's cool too. Changling can stay hidden as long as necessary while disrupting movement and waiting for the time to strike. Also helps to have spell options (Geminds work really well against a Zig-zag formation). I obviously waited until I'd drawn out the auto-dispel ;). Still not entirely convinced, but the unit is very hard to counter and feels very Tzeetchy.

The Changeling did a few more wound by charging a character and using their weapon against them before be torn up.

28 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

That was actually changed in a recent FAQ. He is effectively a 9 wound wizard now.

This, also means to get to keep all the familiar goodness until your opponent has got through 4 of it's wounds. Such a strong hero now.

18 hours ago, Qaz said:

Lord Of Change (380)

- General

- Trait: Incorporeal Form

- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer

- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Tzaangor Shaman (180)

- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might

- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

20 x Tzaangors (360)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfire (200)

6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on foot (200)

Tzaangor Coven (110)

Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 1950 / 2000

I'd definitely consider dropping the Spellportal, just doesn't feel like it's worth 60 points now it's one spell or endless spell a turn. Personally I don't think you're going to be casting enough spells to make the LoC, Mark of the Conjurer, Cogs combo worth it (assuming that's what your going for). Lots of points and potentially pinning your LoC down to your side of the battlefield and you'll still only get an ok summon turn 2 and maybe another turn 4. I'd concentrate on max making the LoC tanky (Gryph feather and Incorporeal form is a personal favourite) and use it aggressively to keep the heat off the Tzaangors.

September 21, 2018

Played a game last night with my endless spells galore list:

Spoiler

Guant summoner with familiars: General with arcane sacrifice.

Lord of Change with Gryph-feather charm

Herald of Tzeetch

The Blue Scribes

The Changling

2 * 10 Pink Horrors

10 Tzaangors

2* 10 Brimestone Horrors

Malign Sorcery up the wazzoo: Pendulum, Balewind Vortex, Chromatic Cogs, Geminids, Gnashing Jaws and Shackles

Actually played really well, against a reasonably competitive storm-cast list . Ended up wiping them off the board by the end of turn 4, they really don't like that many mortal wounds.

My favourite play had to be The Changling DDing a 11 to cast the pendulum down there battle line turn one. 15 mortal wounds done in total, but could have been ever better (6 units hit for D6 wounds each).

Ended up using both the Vortex and Cogs on the Guant summoner most turns (with arcane sacrifice), so it was throwing out 4 spells a turn with +2 to cast (familiar and LoC command) and +15" range and rained death everywhere thanks to the nice offensive realm spells (Ghur). Couldn't recommend this comb enough if your using realms and the Summoner with familiars is the best caster to do it with in my opinion (effective 9 wounds make's it hard to shift).

10 Tzaangors did great too throwing out about 2 mortal wounds a turn before taking out a full unit of Evocators followed by a mounted mage (can't recall the name).

September 20, 2018

Yup, with Skyfires and big blocks of Tzaangor nerfed, Enlightened really are the stand out unit, we have some nice Heros too but nothing crazy.

September 17, 2018

Yup, hoping to drop a nasty endless spell deep in the opponent territory. Also generally give Changling an outing, I'm dubious it's worth 200 point, but want to have a try.

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