Magnus The Blue
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Posts posted by Magnus The Blue
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12 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:
So many questions! 😅
Do you specifically need Fate lore because it gives you glimpse the future? To me it feels too random to be good, do you get good use out of it?
How are you planning to summon blues on turn 1? Arcane Sacrifice and pendulum your own units?
Unless I'm missing something, even if you scythe both pinks then on average you'll end up just shy with 9pts. Is that why you need glimpse the future; to try to bolster your casting for the extra cast from the magister?
It seems like you're relying very heavily on lucky rolls for your summoning combos, while banking everything else on the Enlightened... Have you played this list before? Because I'd be interested to hear how it goes for you, as it's pretty different to how I play. 😁
Arcane S and Penduluming kills an average 9 horrors, so 18 blue summoning points, cast two spells and you can get out two units turn one, just one is almost guaranteed if you get the pendulum off.
On the list, I like it. Not very Lilly but should be great at wining the mission.
I'd love to see better hero's in there but can see why you've gone for the relatively cheap ones.
One option would be drop the second unit of horrors for acolytes and lose the pendulum so you could get the full 9 enlightenment, but that makes for a very different army.
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1 minute ago, mmimzie said:
Yeah no extra wounds from familiars. They are only there for +1 to cast and what ever else the other do.
Nope, read the silver tower FAQ. You can choose familiar to take a wound for the summoner.
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39 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
-2 to hit?
Incorporeal form (General) and Gryph Feather charm. -2 to be hit in combat and -1 from shooting. Great at tanking anything that relies on rolls to hit to do all its damage.
On the subject of tanking, has anyone tried a Fatemaster with one of the MS '6+ saves do a mortal wound to the attacked' artefacts? Very situational but against any non-flying unit without rend you're getting a 2+ save and causing mortal wounds on a 4+. Combine with shield of fate to get really silly.
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Yup, as others have said there isn't much difference, but the sword has some (relatively minor) advantages. Arcane transformation isn't a great spell most of the time but it is an extra cast that doesn't rely on enemies being in 18" range, so I usually give it to a hero that will usually be casting their base offensive spell as something to use when out of range for damage spells. In a pure demon force (which I often play) you soon run out of good spells to cast, so Arcane Transformation gives you an ok bonus and a fate point. That said an arcane transformed sword LoC has dug me out of trouble a few times, especially if you have some fate dice of 2 for auto wounds (they aren't very useful for much else) and some 4s for auto hits (less often have these spare). Also nice if you go for a tanking LoC (-2 to hit version) and want to land some damage while you tying units up.
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The sword is superior in my opinion. If you get into combat it works effectively with fate dice and gets the most value from arcane transformation. In DoT you have lots of units that don't like being in combat so making the LoC at least ok can make for some easier decisions if you run out of screening units.
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Yes, you can use the warscroll to get all the models in, but it's a bit of an abomination and not very good at anything.
Interesting that the Changecult is out of availability on the webstore, I was in Warhammer world last week and they had a few on the shelves. Must be the last few left. Worth checking independent retailers as some might have one gathering dust.
Don't forget you need at least some daemons for summoning, although the Blues and Brims box is a decent and cheap way of doing that.
If your not keen on demons, then a box of Tzaangor, box of Cultists and a Gaunt (with familiars) summoner is a sensible start , then add more Tzaangors of various types to bulk it up.
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Not great, as most of the models in it can't be played on their own. The Changecult box gives you an excellent selection of strong units, or if you love the daemons, the start collecting box is good value (although most of the contents are meh on the table).
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Yeah, the sheer faff of moving 200+ models around the table would put me right off, did 130 model 40k army for 2 years and that was painful enough.
Just hope you don't face the previously mentioned Guant Summoner, who with battle-shock will single kill about 40 a round!
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They are just referring to the standard +1 every unit gets for every 10 models when taking battle shock test.
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11 minutes ago, Ben said:
I don't know. If people are concentrating on hitting the blobs then you are happy with that right? Build some CP's into the list. 30+ Ungor are Bravery 7. If you kill 9 and roll a 6 only 8 die. It's hardly devastation.
Unless I'm missing something, ungors are bravery 4, not that it really matters. The problem is that any half unit will easily dish out 15+ wounds, with another 10ish from battle shock, add a decent combat hero or another small unit and your 200 point unit is wiped out in one turn (and likely done little damage). Most armies will be able to comfortably do this to 3 units a turn so you'll quickly burn through any extra CP.
I'm not saying it's awful but you need to think carefully about what the other 1000 point will be and make sure it can work around the 200 models getting in it's way. Enlightened on disks feels like an obvious compliment as they can fly, have big damage output for a small footprint and excel at engaging units that are already stuck in a tarpit.
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My bad, I was convinced I saw an updated allies list with broader options for BoC, but can't find it now, so must have been a dream
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True, you didn't say you'd bring one, but it's a solid option with similar cost to the battalion. Obviously which is best depends on the rest of your force.
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1 minute ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:
Brass Despoilers is a waste on Dragon Ogres since they already get reroll 1's from a Shaggoth.
And they already have a source of rerolling to wound with the base Shaggoth spell.
If you're feeling really paranoid about Night Haunt, just ally in the Guant Summoner with familiars, it's base spell will ruin chainrasp hordes and being arcanite buffs any Tzaangors nearby.
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12 minutes ago, Saiken said:
Is anyone in here using the Depraved Drove (Slaanesh battalion) ?
I have a hard time really understanding :
- How it would be beneficial using it in a Slaanesh Force
- What combination of Units benefit the most from Battalion (Rerolling failed Hits and Charge)-I love my BoC, but I fell in love with that Herald with Harp, and I definitely want to play Noise Marines in 40K
So I guess it would be a pretty good option to use that battalion.1The battalion ability is 'ok' but as with the Tzeentch one has the advantage of being very flexible, thus you can put your entire force in it and almost always get choice of first turn.
I'd say the best use of it is in an ambushing/alpha strike force, where those rerolled charges are worth their weight in gold, but a smart opponent will try and keep their artefacts away from the front for the first few turns.
With this in mind I'd aim for a fast force with a decent ambush present, so you'll usually give the opponent first turn and the unenviable choice of castling up and giving you the initiative for the objectives game or charging forward and getting engaged on multiple fronts. Taking heros that get good value out of the extra artefact and command point is key.
Never going to be most effective, but at least it's one of the cheaper ones
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SpoilerOn 11/28/2018 at 3:00 PM, SwampHeart said:
Gavespawn's Artifact works best (IMO) on a Beastlord, he has a high volume of relatively accurate attacks with a built in re-roll of 1s to hit to help mitigate the downside. This is one of the few ways I think a Beastlord actually works really well in a list - he becomes a very solid blender. The command ability is very solid but requires planning, I think the best way to implement it is to summon spawn rather than purchase them in your list. When you purchase them their random movement can be very difficult to account for when trying to plan out a turn (stacking the command ability on a single unit multiple times is a game changer) - however when you summon them you know where and how they can come in and thus you can plan for it much more easily (and can bank the points needed so you can guarantee it). Unravelling Aura is solid, there's not much to it but its nice because its just an always on ability. The last trick with Gavespawn that I really like is using our 'make a spawn from a dead hero' ability to create really tricky scenarios for your opponent. This requires some understanding how pile in mechanics (closest enemy model) and things like that but you can really use that spawn to make it hard for your enemy to pile in or get closer to an objective with clever positioning.
Sorry for the wall of text there but I hope that helps a little with Gavespawn specifics. Outside of those most of the army works just like any other BoC army - cheap bodies, a few good if glass hammers, very fast. My general suggestion is to focus on board control - learn to fan out fast score early, you're going to lose models by the handful but who cares if you jumped the lead early and can grind out protecting it.
Hopefully this is more productive than complaining about SCE (its tired and old, they're an army and some people even like them).
SwampHeart hit the nail on the head. Personally, I'd focus on lots of cheap heroes and a battalion to minimise the number of drops. Khorn battalion is the most obvious contender, with a few Shamans to get everyone moving fast. Generall battleplan would be to swarm objectives turn one and grind out victories through board control and speed more than killing the other army. Personally, I think Centigors are brilliant for this: hardy, fast and cheap with the abilities to take out support units with a drunken charge, also nice synergy with the battalion. A unit or two of 10 ambushing Bestigors will keep your enemy spread thin turn one, while you build up some summoning points to place spawns in key areas when things get bloody. Comboing your gravespawn command ability with beastlord's or Khone once per game buff can make any reasonably large unit into a blender, just 10 beastigors can through regularly throw out 20+ wounding hit once you start stacking buffs with a charge.
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Spoiler59 minutes ago, Johnny Eyebrows said:
Hi all - first time poster
I'm going to a tournament towards the beginning of next year, only my 2nd one. I was looking at maybe trying a Changehost, wondered what folks thoughts on the matter were?
Current idea is (2000pts)
LoC, with Staff, Mark of the Conjurer, Magical Supremacy
Ogrid Thaumaturge
Blue Scribes
Herald on foot
2x 10 Pink Horrors
2x 10 Brimstone Horrors
2x 3 Screamers
1x 10 Blue Horrors
1x 10 Acolytes
with either the shackles or the wall (forgotten the name...) to limit opponent's movement.
Not sure on the viability of the list though. Does anyone have experience of using the changehost? What would you do?
(Ogrid is there because 1- I have one, and 2- the model is great
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5I've played a good few games with Changehost and had quite a lot of success (local league). I think you need more teeth, either through more casters or Tzaangors (regular or enlightened). You have tonnes of screening units (and even more when the pinks die) but not much worth screening.
Another potential issue is lack of turn one options if you go first, only damage you would do is twosspells from the Pinks (changehost swaping them to get closer before cast). A mortal cast with Arcane sacrifice helps (ideally Guant summoner with familiars) and/or balewind vortex.
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Just got a little click happy on Ebay and bought the bitz to covert up 15 Dragon Ogors and a Shaggoth. Long term planning to build them up to full 2k army but for now thinking of something like this for 1k:
Shaggoth: Father of Storms, Horn of the Tempest, Hailstorm
Great Bray Shaman: Vicious Stranglethorns
6 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons, 3 War glaives
6 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons, 3 War glaives
3 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons
Soulshackle Snares
The plan is simple, 3 Ogors and Shaman hang by the Herd stone for summoning while the Shaggoth and 12 Ogors rush one flank. Hope to use superior movement and movement impairing spells out overpower one flank and fight my opponents army piecemeal. Not 100% sure on the focus on movement with Artifact and General trait but I like the reliable turn one charges as my damage output isn't amazing, so I need to start smashing early.
Any thoughts on how to improve it?
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Spoiler9 minutes ago, Captain James Hook said:
Hello everyone. After my legions of nagash I'm planning to run a tzeentch army. I started to think of an army mixed with the new beast ost chaos with the idea to create an horde of goats devoted to tzeentch. Since I'll be buy the changecult battle Force and a start collecting beast of chaos i thought of this army:
alligiance: tzeentch
Lord of change, general
Tzaangor shaman
Herald of tzeentch
10 kairic acolytes
6 tzaangors enlightened
PHANTASMAGORIA OF FATE battallion:
Great bray shaman
20 tzaangors
20 bestigors
10 ungors
Tot.1980, traits and spells yet to be decided. Any advices on traits and spells and the list in general?
I was thinking something similar but going Beast alliance (see Beast Thread for my list). I think that because the Phantasmagoria is so expensive, you really need the ring as much value out of it as possible. To me that means not too many wizards as thy water down the value of the Battalion ability, as much as possible of your army in the Battalion so you are going to get choice of first turn, and Bad ****** artefacts to take advantage of having two.
With that in mind and lack of casters to take advantage of the LoC command ability, I'd think about putting in a Beastlord with a choppy artefact (probably instead of the Herald), swapping out the Acoloytes for a screen that fits into the battalion (ungors, or Centigors are great) and move all the Tzaangor units into the battalion. Of course, less casters limited the value of summoning, which is why I prefer the beasts allegiance abilities. Obviously best for you too stick to Tzeentch if your running a LoC or loses access to the Lore of Change.
9 minutes ago, marke said:Speaking of Enlightened there doesn't seem to be much discussion about discs vs hooves. I haven't played my Tzeentch yet, but hooves look so much better with the reduced cost. What am I misding here?
I think both are good. The disk attacked mean that their damage output is similar point for point so basically your trading a bit of resilience (per point spent) for a lot of movement. Disks also have the advantage of being demons, so can be targeted with fold reality (not a minor consideration).
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Thinking of putting together a Phantasmagoria of Fate army, mainly for conversion opportunities, but I want it to be reasonable competitive on the board too. Would love to get people's thoughts on the list:
Gravespawn Great Fray
All in a Phantasmagoria of Fate battalion
Tzaangor Shaman: General-Unraveling Aura + Tendrils of Atrophy
Tzaangor Shaman: Vicous Stranglethorns
Great Bray Shaman: Wild Rampage
Beastlord: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord: Vocanic Axe
30 Tzaangor: 12 Greatblades, 6 Mutants, 11 Dual Blades, 1 shield,
10 Tzaangor: 2 Mutants, 4 Greatblades, 3 Dual blades, 1 shield
10 Ungor
6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disk
5 Centigors
5 Centigors
1 drop, so should get choice of initiative turn one, which is always nice. Generally a fast army thanks to the banners (run and charge), Bray Shaman and plenty of naturally fast movement. So can alpha strike across the battlefield with most of the army if it's going to give the opponent a headache.
Big blob of Tzaangors is cornerstone of the army, with plenty of Beastlords, Shamans and (after a few turns) spawn to buff their damage output to awesome levels.
10 Tzaangors will probably ambush most of the time for some backfield pressure.
Centigors, Enlightened and a Tz-shaman guard/attack the flanks.
Brayshamman and Ungor stay at the Herdstone for summoning fun.
One thought is if it's worth making the Tzaangor into two units of 20 and forget about ambushing: I should get some summons soon enough for backfield pressure.
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I've been reading this thread and doing lots of math-hammer for a new beasts of chaos army I'm thinking building and it seems to me like Centigors are one of the most overlooked unit in the book. They are very resilient (for their cost), have a decent offensive output (especially when drunk and charging), 2" range on their spear and one of the longest charge ranges in the game. As Brayherd they can also ambush (meh, too fast to care), get buffed by Beastlords (great when not charging) and even get more movement from a Great Brayshaman.
I'm thinking 2-3 units of 10 would make a solid vanguard force gumming up the opponent's flanks for a turn or two, or even combined with some Enlightened for a nasty alpha strike- Centigors lock units in place for the Enlightened to slaughter.
Potentially a few 5 beast units to claim early objectives away from the main battle-line without missing out on the fun later in the game.
I can see the large base size being annoying but at least it's oval and they have those spears for poking for a distance. Am I missing something or are people just avoiding the expensive finecast minatures?
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Yes, I'm really super sure. The erratered Ogormage's spell has the same wording and works in the same way. Endless spell have specific rules restricting their casting and how many you can have on the table. Always been played this way for every game I've seen including a range of tournaments both independent and at Warhammer world.
Given spawn are not great and usually get destroyed in the proceeding combat phase, it's not that great, especially considering it does an average of about half the wounds an undamaged LoC's spell does (9 dice, 3+s cause 1 mortal wound). Magister has a similar spell (but only does d3 wounds)
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3 minutes ago, MrRoff said:
- 1. Kairos Fateweaver is a named character, right? And can't take relics or command traits BUT Lord of change is not?
Yup, true.
4 minutes ago, MrRoff said:-
2. Spell: Gift of change: Gift of Change has a casting value of 8. If successfully cast, pick a visible enemy unit within 18" of the caster. That unit suffers a number of mortal wounds as shown in the damage table. If any models were slain by this spell, you can set up a ChaosSpawn under your control within 3" of that unit.
My question is that it dosen't say "The unit is added to your army" which other summon abilities says. Does this mean that you'll need to have those ChaosSpawns already on your army's point value before the start of the game?
My friends seems to think he could spawn in an infinite amount of them for free.
2Your friend is right, but it's hardy infinate. Max one a turn
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On 11/15/2018 at 8:14 AM, Myrdin said:
Beastlord - Drop the requirement for his Command Ability to kill a model before it can be used. Thats a really stupid one and is inconsistent,
I generally agree with people's suggestion, but can't get on board with this, Beastlord already has one of the strongest command abilities around. Load it up with a Volcanic Axe, chop a minor hero in half and 'hey preseto' you have rerolled hit and wound for half your army. Sure it's situational, but wide radius re-roll bubbles are sooooo good.
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Yeah, Cursling is great value if you are playing with realm spells or have lots of endless spells to chuck out. 2 spells a turn isn't great if all you can cast is glean magic and one lore of fate spell.
Had a game last Friday with 2 units of 3 screamers, mainly just to fill out a Change-host but they were absolutely amazing. Damage output was as meh as ever but unit took a charge then retreated over enemy lines to capture objective, almost single-handedly winning me the game. The -1 to hit combined with 3 wounds each makes then surprisingly hardy for a cheap 5+ save unit, especially since you can cluster them tightly to minimise the attacks they are going to be taking.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
One of the most successful Tzeentch builds in AoS 2.0 has revolved around 9 enlightened on disks, Kairos and fold reality (cast by Kairos with fate dice to make it nigh unstoppable). Regularly returning enlightened with some decent screening and spells to snipe herps, can carve through most lists like a knife through butter.
Kairos' spell is also really nice, free spawn (usually retreating from combat so they last into the opponent's turn) can really slow down opponents battle plans.