Magnus The Blue
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Posts posted by Magnus The Blue
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28 minutes ago, HobbyKiller said:
Reapers of vengeance khorne with either multi-thirsters or Archaon is not that hard to beat.
You need to take advantage of your longer threat range, ignore Archaon or feed him one keeper at a time or even better get him to fight Shalaxi with her spell on as unless he slayers of kings her she will tank him.
Also screen what you can - most importantly both of those lists have very squishy other elements that you can easily kill and win on objectives.
For the record so you don’t think this is theoretical hyperbole I just came second at facehammer and played and beat the following
skaven with 9 stormfiends
reapers with 4 thirsters
skaven with 9 stormfiends
reapers with archaon
120 plague monks
Yup, sounds like he lucked out with slayer of kings.
Congratulations on the results HobbyKiller, what list did you run?
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1 minute ago, Maddpainting said:
Yeah, the Grashrak's Despoilers i dont think can be in a battalion for us, will have to double check later.
Unfortunately true. The battalion calls for great bray shamman, not bold, so refers to the warscroll name, not any keywords. 😭
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Just now, Tasman said:
Where does it say that you get no depravity from mortal wounds? That was laid to rest with the release of the new book, I thought. MWs do generate DP.
Only if they are generated from a spell or attack, the mortal wounds caused by the chariots are neither, so don't produce depravity.
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Yeah, I must say the more I use my Exaulted Chariot Bladebringer, the more I want to use 2. The damage output is great, especially if you manage to charge multiple units, know one likes 4d3 mortal wounds before you even start attacking.
Just a shame you don't get depravity from the mortal wounds.
On an unrelated note, has anyone tried out the new warcry furies yet in their Slaanesh list? Sure they increase drop count, but 12" flighing move with retreat instead of fighting feels strong in a army that can had out always strikes last. First though is a screen for a Keeper, if anything scary charges just locus it and retreat over it's head with the Furies, who can now have fun in the enemies back lines.
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2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
I don't think I've ever not had thermalrider cloak in my list so that precludes sword of judgement right of the bat. But even I went hydrox my next item is rod of misrule.
Perhaps I'm playing my epitome wrong. Typically I let my KoS dispel the low value cast rolls and let the epitome reach for the big casts. I've not found it to be particularly good at that role, and I don't need rrs to beat a 5 typically. Usually it's the bonuses to cast that give me the issues not the actual dice roll. Changing an 8 to a 6 when you add +2 or more is still outside my reach reliably.
I find hysterical frenzy to not really be all that good an astute opponent just has to pre-measure and keep one model out of range and the unit is immune to the spell. It's also extremely variable in actual output making it probably the most unreliable horde spell, in average you you'll kill a third of a 1 wound unit. For the same points you can ally a Gaunt Summoner on balewind, and roll a die for each model within 24", increasing the number of viable targets and the eventual dmg is to that unit( half vs 1/3)
I do have the Enrapturess in my list and a second has been my first summon almost every game.
It might just be a playstyle thing since my entire game plan is built around basically not fighting combats that I don't wipe in one round, and trading KoS for a new KoS when I've spent the first one.
Yeah, typically I'll only use the Sword of Judgement as a 3rd artefact in 2 battalion list , on top of a Miasmic Blade on a Keeper and Rod of Misrule.
Hysterial frenzy is often more of a deterrent than a offensive weapon. If keeping your epitome close to your keeper means it doesn't get bogged down in hordes, super.
But generally I agree with what your saying, it's far from an auto-take but does give you a whole new bag of tricks. Not using one at the moment for many of the reasons you mention.
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For me, Horrible fascination is just an added extra (as is the 2+ moral wound save). The speed, offensive output and most importantly two spells/disspells with rerolls are what makes it good.
Hysterical frenzy is probably our best anti horde tool and Epitome is the best caster we have for it (unless your allying in Fateweaver). Similarly if your using any big bang Endless spells (Cogs anyone), Epitome is the best model to try and cast it. Also, the combination of Epitome and Enraptress is the single most effective way to shutdown wizards. Them rerolling successful casts and you rerolling unbinds means they have 4 chances to fail casting any given spell, even Nagash struggles.
Also great monster/hero hunter with Sword of Judgement (on claws) and the Fane (2+ save Vs the mortal wound to boot): 9 attacks and rerolling what you want gives you 18 chances to roll 6s.
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28 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Has anyone else been funding their lists drift towards 3 KoS? I find I'm just taking different things for list diversity rather than actual best choices.
Personally I've found 2 is plenty and leaves room for more toys. With three you end up light on models (and wounds) and more at risk of getting your heros getting wiped out during a double turn. Even if you have more heros, less screens etc makes them vulnerable. We also have some great utility heroes like Enraptures and Epitome which I struggle to include with 3 Keepers. Also, I've found hordes to be the hardest armies to face and more keepers doesn't really help with that.
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5 minutes ago, Sobakaa said:
What exactly are those easy ways to re-roll 1's on, say, daemonettes or seekers? Outside of vice-leader's ability or chaos sorcerer lord's spell i can't come up with any.
Herald spell (available on 4 different scrolls), Epitome spell, Syll (in a massive bubble) and the new generic command trait (if your Invaders you have more command points than you need most of the time).
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13 hours ago, Isotop said:
New Slaanesh player here. I am going for a first 2000 points list similar to @Magnus The Blue´s one. I am really liking the Seeker Calvacade 6" pile-in. I am also tending towards Pretenders to try out first - reason being the monster called Keeper of Secrets-Sliverslash Impaling Claws-Strongest Alone-Strenght of Godhood™. I know this might sound a bit shallow and maybe I will "evolve" into a Sybarite guy - but for everyone interested in some numbers, here is the average damage some of our pieces are doing (in one combat activation vs 4+ safe):
Naked Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous Hand): ~8,4
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (being within 1" of 1 enemy unit): ~8,1 (+2,2 when charging)
KoSSICSASoG™: ~16,5 (+2 once per combat phase)
I hope this is interesting for some of you. I always like to have a rough number in my head when planning a turn. Additionally, I think there are a lot of wrong expectations floating around in people´s heads. I just crunched those numbers because somebody in another thread stated that a naked KoS is doing more damage than every naked Bloodthirster (which is wrong). I think it is easy to get a wrong impression about the KoS because the Impaling Claws can be very swingy. Everyone remembers the game they rolled two sixes to hit and wounded with all of the hits. But we forget the much more numerous times the KoS did more around the 8,5 stated above (allthough this can get up with Acquiescence or the Fane buff).
I would be super happy to get some more discussion about our damge output and tactics in general. If you need the average damge for any unit, feel free to ask.
Yeah, I tried out the pure offence pretenders build Keeper you mentioned and it does deal a lot of damage, but the problem is that it's investing too much in a single model and is of most benefit in games which your going to win anyway. If an opponent doesn't have the units/skill to screen, kill or otherwise deal with one keeper of Secrets, your going to win anyway. If they can deal with it, you're given up a lot to increase the damage output on a model that's not going to play a big part in the game. While the Keeper doesn't cost any more points you lose out of a lot by going pretenders instead of Invaders:
1) Glory Hog: I am convinced that this is hands down the best general trait in the game. 1-2 command points a round (works in both player's combat phases) is game changing in an army with access to an 'attack again' command trait.
2) Rod of Misrule: more command points and this time on one of the most efficient CP artefacts in the game.
3) 1-6 Depravity points a turn: the pretenders bonus depravity almost never produces anything, especially considering your general will wipe out most units on contact, invaders, on the other hand produce points almost every turn except the first. Over a 5 turn game, this really adds up.
4) Syll'Esske: Really only worth it if they are the general (for the command trait).
5) Defensive/Mobility Artefacts on your Keeper: Thermal Rider Cloak, Ignax Scales, and Aetherial Amulet all make your Keeper much harder to handle.
6) Supreme Sybarites: basically useless in pretenders meaning miss out on a good value battalion and you can't easily do a 2 drop army (except with Beasts).
Sure you get the reroll 1s on big units, but re-rolling 1 to hit is easy to get in Slaanesh anyway so really not a big loss.
Once you've burned 6 command points to attack twice with half your army, you never go back
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With a few games with pure hedonites under my belt I've come to the conclusions that unless your running Beasts, invaders are simply the best host: Glory hog and Rod of misrule means your can spam Excess of Violence to your heart's content and still have command points for re-rolling charges and battleshock. Combined with a decent bonus depravity mechanic, I can't me taking Godseekers or Pretenders again in competitive games.
On a related note, here's my current list:
Keeper, General (Glory Hog), Thermarider Cloak, S.Hand and Song of Secretes
Keeper, S.Hand and Progeny of Damnation
Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot, Rod of Misrule and Hysterical Frenzy
Infernal Enrapress
Seeker Cavalcade with
3* 5 Helstriders with Claw-spears
2* 10 Seekers
Soo fast and deadly, but it's major strength is it's so hard to charge with all the 6" pile in and buffs that work in both player's turns.
I've not lost a game with it yet, although yet to face FEC or DoK, so we will see.
Any thoughts for improvement?
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On 8/9/2019 at 5:46 PM, AronQ said:
Yeah, summoning of slaanesh daemons is really cool and Hedonites of Slaanesh have really good abilities. Sorry, this will be my last question, does Keeper of Secrets is good choice for buying? Is he good in table game for now, after hedonites update?
She is amazing. The command ability is awesome, 2+ locus of diversion is great, build in healing with the Hand and solid magic. I'd say easily the best unit in the book (especially if your playing pure hedonites).
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Ungor raiders are super, try max unit ambushing with a combat unit or two supporting. With rerolls on 1,2 and double hits on 6 you do a lot of damage and it's a right pain to get rid of.
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On 7/29/2019 at 9:17 AM, Magnus The Blue said:
Got my first pure Hedonites 2k game tomorrow. Up until now I've had a mixed list with Beasts, using Pretenders for a God mode Keeper (Silverslash, Strongest Alone and Hunter of Godbeasts) which has been doing well but I want to got for something more subtle this time. Here is the list I'm thinking about, Invaders host:
Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Progeny of Damnation)
Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Song of Secrets)
Blade-bringer of Exalted Chariot (Hysterical Frenzy, Rod of Misrule)
Infernal Enrapturess (Aetherquarts Broach, General: Glory Hog)
Seeker Calvalcade Battalion
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
10 Seekers (Icon + Banner)
10 Seekers (Icon + Banner)
2k on the nose.
Should be command point rich, so have only included 1 general to avoid getting them locked down. Seekers will act as an Alpha Strike and/or clear chaff. Helstrider will focus on objectives while the Keepers and Chariot will hunt down multi-wound units to get some depravity up quickly.
It's low model so might struggle wit board control if I don't get summoning quickly, but with Enratress, Invaders bonus depratity and two keepers hitting turn 2 at the latest that shouldn't be an issue.
Any thought on tweaks/improvements?
Well, that was brutal. Ended up swapping the Aetherquarts broach for Thermalrider Cloak on a Keeper.
Played against Nightnaught with a focus on using Cogs and teleport to alpha strike.
Better part of Valor mission and we didn't roll use realm rules.
I had less drops and opted to go second to get a chance at double turning to deal with his alpha strike. As it turns out, completely unnecessary, the side to side deployment meant I could cluster up quite densely while covering all three objectives, This combined with 6" pile in and Locus of diversion meant he couldn't isolate any part of my force and ended up fulling a keeper and almost all my non-heros into combat, it didn't end well for him. I'd wiped out his alpha strike force before turn one was over then just wandered over the board to get his objective holders. Lost 2 units of helstriders and didn't need to summon anything with the 20+ points I got from killing his characters.
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Got my first pure Hedonites 2k game tomorrow. Up until now I've had a mixed list with Beasts, using Pretenders for a God mode Keeper (Silverslash, Strongest Alone and Hunter of Godbeasts) which has been doing well but I want to got for something more subtle this time. Here is the list I'm thinking about, Invaders host:
Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Progeny of Damnation)
Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Song of Secrets)
Blade-bringer of Exalted Chariot (Hysterical Frenzy, Rod of Misrule)
Infernal Enrapturess (Aetherquarts Broach, General: Glory Hog)
Seeker Calvalcade Battalion
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon)
10 Seekers (Icon + Banner)
10 Seekers (Icon + Banner)
2k on the nose.
Should be command point rich, so have only included 1 general to avoid getting them locked down. Seekers will act as an Alpha Strike and/or clear chaff. Helstrider will focus on objectives while the Keepers and Chariot will hunt down multi-wound units to get some depravity up quickly.
It's low model so might struggle wit board control if I don't get summoning quickly, but with Enratress, Invaders bonus depratity and two keepers hitting turn 2 at the latest that shouldn't be an issue.
Any thought on tweaks/improvements?
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We actually have much better options than most for dealing with Slaanesh.
The key is hordes and decent shooting. They can't do much against large units of Bestigors, Ungors and Ungor Raiders. They also often struggle for board control early on (unless they are also using beasts), which we excel at. No a silver bullet, but since we've got a lot of 1 wound options, we can definitely minimise their summoning with clever list design.
Deprived Drove Slaanesh is a different matter as they have access to our best horde units and see to be less dependant on summoning.
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9 minutes ago, Cookiez said:
Ok, I've read through some pages and to summarize the most competitive choices and top builds. So what I'm looking at right now are:
- Bestigors
- Ungor Raiders/Ungors
- Enlightened
- Taurus spell and a combination of 2 Shamans.
Within Slaanesh (without Enlightened then, ofc) alliegiance accompanied by Keeper and the mirror. The second option is the Khorne alliegiance with Bloodsecrators. Did I miss anything? Any competitive builds with BoC alliegiance?
In my opinion your missing:
-Dragon Ogors: tough, fast and decent damage output. 140 points for 15 wounds and 4+ save is great.
-Centigors: crazy fast, cheap and tough. So good to holding and stealing objectives.
Neither a impressive in terms of damage output but both are great for winning and holding objectives.
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43 minutes ago, Trayanee said:
I use some hobby shop tool case with steel sheet in the bottom/top and have all my bases magnetized.
Similarly I use magnets on bases, but then just have an Ikea breakfast tray with flexible ferrous sheet to make them stick. perfect size for 2k points and has legs so can sit over the table if you short for space. Never have to pack up models, just pop the tray in the car and go. Obviously not a solution for public transport 😉, but cheap and minimal hastle.
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This got me thinking, so I did the maths on those 40 Ungor units, dam they are scary.
Hard to kill: 200 points, 40 wounds and 5+ save in combat.
Fast: Run and change, +1" run, +3" move from Shaman, reroll charge if in 12" of a hero with an artefact, max 27" threat range, before Cogs and Godseekers.
Hard hitting: On average 40 (with blades) will do over 18 wounds to a 5+ save unit. Assumes all of them are fighting which isn't very likely but with small bases and 4" pile in you should get lots of them in most of the time.
Great at holding objectives: How many models!!
Is I had the time and inclination to paint them, 200 Slaanesh Ungor look like an amazing base to an army, depravity be dammed (1250 points including a Shaman and Battalion).
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Personally I like the way depravity makes you focus on Heros, feels right for Slaanesh and makes list building a very different beast than in other alliances. What I don't like is how much it changes how good our army is depending on the opponent. Armies with lots of multi-wound models just get blown away while horde armies are usually a real uphill battle. But I suppose balancing this out is the art of making a good slaanesh army. Spend 1200+ points on heros and your always going to struggle with 200 clan rats/ungor/Gobbos, but not enough and you lose out on one of our strongest abilities.
The main problem right now is that the Beasts battalion means you can get the best of both words by getting some relatively cheap horde units (Ungor and Bestigor) and back them up with out strong hero choices (thanks to depravity): compounded by the fact exploding sixes combine soooo well with those horde units. I don't think anyone wants to play against 3 Keepers backed up by 120 Ungor.
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48 minutes ago, Myrdin said:
Not sure we can call Tzaangors dirty anymore with the price hike, they are on par with Bullgors (yet are oh so much better, only shows you how bad bullgors are).
I think they are now just a good unit but no longer overpowered.
2 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:Bulls, dragons, etc. 1/2 our units just need to go down in points.
Bulls, yes a bit too expensive. But Dragon Ogors! They are at worse a really solid option, 140 points for 15 4+ wounds, reasonably fast with Alligence ability and decent damage output. Their main disadvantage is the large base size, but that's rarely a major problem unless your running lots of them.
9 hours ago, kenshin620 said:BoC is a bit tricky. They have decent-good units for sure, but it's not as "point and clicky" as other factions. Use movement and positioning to outwit and outmaneuver, but generally don't try to rush up the board and expect to grind out opponents. Unless you run them as slaanesh or something.
Yes, BoC tend to be all about board control, screening and playing the mission rather than just smashing face. We have a wide range of good units (Ungor, Raiders, Bestigor, Centigor, Enlightened on Disks and Dragon Ogors), but no obscenely good ones. The big advantage of playing Beasts is there are a tonne of possible build which are competitive: horde, shooting, elite, mixed etc. and on top of that the God battalions mean you can easily play with different alliances with the same models, and all except Tzeentch are solid options. I think our main down side is lack of good heros, sure you have a few options and some are very useful but your never going to dominate magic or have a combat monster general who'll cleave through opponents armies.
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I assume the entrappress is mainly there as a hard counter to magic heavy lists. So many casters in the current meta and Enraptress + Epitome means 4 chances to stop key casts.
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Won't make you many friends but should be very effective, most of the time. The problem is going to be when you face a horde army and produce very few summoning points you'll round out of models very quickly. Makes it all a bit rock,paper, scissors.
I think most people look to Beasts since so many Slaanesh options are just bad value for points (almost all chariots, fiends, daemonettes) , so beast give you some more options, which generally do well with the exploding 6s of Slaanesh.
To fine tune I'd drop the Chaos Warriors and The Masque to get 15 more Hellstriders (one unit of 10 to keep drops down). Will give you the option of charging in your battle line to break through screens without exposing your characters. Otherwise well screened armies will take you apart piecemeal.
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56 minutes ago, EMMachine said:
It wouldn't have to be more mortal wounds but the direction is the right one.
The game does partly lack units that generate more damage against many model units.
Basicl, when we ignore mortal wound flamers for a moment the 4 units that generate more damage against Hordes are the following
- Grot Scraplauncher (Deadly Rain of Scrap)
- Decimators (Thunderaxe)
- Plagueclaw (Barrage of Disease)
- Field Mortar (High Explosive)
An interesting point for those 3 is, that 3 of 4 are catapults. The game would simply need more units that can create more damage against large model numbers without creating more damage against monsters.
Depending on what you mean by mortal wound flamers (not sure why you would ignore them) you've missed some of the best ones:
1. Guant Summoner (spell)
2. Hell Pit Abomination
3. Hysterical Frenzy (Slaanesh Spell)
I'm sure there are plenty more, but I definitely think most factors should have at least a soft counter to hordes (currently maybe 1/4 do).
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9 minutes ago, Isotop said:
Understanding the "position of a model" as the center point of its base is the most simple and elegant understanding.
I disagree with this point, the centre or the base or any part of the base, are just as simple (and elegant). No that I'm saying your wrong, I just don't think there is a strong argument for either over the other.
AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
Nice, if you get a chance to do a write up, I would love to here how you felt with those lists.