Magnus The Blue
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Posts posted by Magnus The Blue
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57 minutes ago, Eldarain said:
Beginner question. Can we use all the god specific Battalions in Chaos Ascendant?
I am kinda confused when it comes to the faction of battalions. There was a similar issue before the Everchosen book was rolled into Slaves with using Plaguetouched in Nurgle allegiance.
In the new Slaves book it specifies the godmarked battalions are both Slaves faction and *god* faction.
Any clarity would be much appreciated as I might just not be reading a specific entry somewhere that clears it up.
As it stands, no. Legion of Chaos Assendent is a new allegiance, so can only use allegiance specific battalions (the four in the Wrath book). Hopefully they will FAQ is so we can and the Legion battalions can be used in the god specific allegiances.
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Going to be rocking the Legion of The First Prince tonight. Mostly trying stuff out, so don't expect it to be hugely competitive:
Be'lakor- General, Bolt of Ruin
Contorted Epitomie- fourfold blade, Echo of Hatred
The Masque
2 * 10 Daemonettes
10 Pink Horrors
4*5 Seekers
2 Soul Grinders
Host of the Deprived (all Slannesh units).
I'm hoping the Seekers will be able to pull a lot of weight between the battalion bonus, two strike after death spells and Be'lakors awesome command trait returning models in both players turns!
The Soul Grinder don't fit with the list very well, but they have just been build, so I want to get them on the battlefield.
Battle report coming tomorrow.
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Ok, putting together my first list. Using a combination of Tzeetch and Slannesh. Mainly because I love the Slannesh Battalion and feel Tzeentch compliments it well.
Legion of the First Prince
Be'lakor- General
The Contorted Epitome- Fourfold Blade
Keeper of Secrets- Armour of the Pact
Fateskimmer
10 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes
10 Pink Horrors
5 Seekers * 4
Host of the Depraved (all Slaanesh units)
Wheels of Excrutiation
Feels like Seekers will be hard to deal with, 6 3+/3+ attacks each when charging with Soulhunters active, two spells that make them fight on death and a command ability that brings them back!
Epitome has a lot of synergies being the best summoner available to us (although can't summon horrors how are obviously the best summonable). 9 attacks with 4 foul blade and the strike last ability.
Keeper feels reasonably tanky with reroll to save, 6++ and probably the hand to regenerate wounds.
Only 4 drops too.
Thoughts/comments welcome
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Just came back from the UK Throne of Skulls and went 5-1 with my firebelly underguts. It was escalating with 3 1k ME then 3 full 2k pitched battles. Went 2-1 in the meeting engagements, only losing out to Petrifex and 3-0 in the pitched battles. Finished 2nd on tournament points but slipping out of the podium after favourite army and game votes.
2k list
SpoilerThe Barbeque Boyz
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes, Tribe: Underguts, 2k list
Leaders
The Consuming Flame, Spirit of Ashy 0 points
Commander (Wizard)
Spells: Renew 6+, Blubbergrub Stench 5+, Arcane Bolt 5+, Mystic Shield 6+Drarok the Unburnt, Firelord of the Consuming Flame 400 points
Frostlord on Stonehorn
Artifact: Gnoblar Blast key
Mount Trait: Metal-cruncher
Makog Longstrider 160 points
Tyrant
General, General Trait: Mass of Scars
Bigname: Longstrider,
Artifact: Gruesome Trophy RackDezir Flamecaller 120 points
Firebelly
Spells: Burning Ashcloud 8+, Cascading Firecloak 6+, Arcane Bolt 5+, Mystic Shield 6+
Battleline
Makog’s Skullsmashas 220 points
Ironguts
4 * Irongits inc bellower, mawmaw bearer and gutlordGrog’s Flamebelchers 160 points
4 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfistGragg’s Flamebelchers 160 points
4 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfist
Artillery
Grob’s Firepot 120 points
Iron BlasterGrod’s Firepot 120 points
Iron Blaster
Grok’s Firepot 120 points
Iron BlasterGror’s Firepot 120 points
Iron Blaster
Other units
Wurork’s Flamebelchers 80 points
2 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfistZagbad’s Flamebelchers 80 points
2 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfist
Battalions
Tyrant’s Gutguard 120 points
Includes Tyrant, Ironguts and two Ironblasters
Endless spell:
Malevolent Maelstrom 10 points
ME list
SpoilerSpearhead
Leader
Makog Longstrider 160 points
Tyrant
General, General Trait: Mass of Scars
Bigname: Longstrider,
Artifact: Gnoblar Blastkeg
Other units
Wurork’s Flamebelchers 80 points
2 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfistZagbad’s Flamebelchers 80 points
2 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfist
MAin Body
Leaders
Dezir Flamecaller 120 points
Firebelly
Spells: Burning Ashcloud 8+, Cascading Firecloak 6+, Arcane Bolt 5+, Mystic Shield 6+
Battleline
Grog’s Flamebelchers 160 points
4 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfistGragg’s Flamebelchers 160 points
4 * Leadbelchers inc one thunderfist
Rearguard
Leader
The Consuming Flame, Spirit of Ashy 0 points
Commander (Wizard)
Spells: Renew 6+, Blubbergrub Stench 5+, Arcane Bolt 5+, Mystic Shield 6+Artillery
Grob’s Firepot 120 points
Iron BlasterGrod’s Firepot 120 points
Iron BlasterTotalHad a blast, Ogors feel like they are in such a great place at the moment being both competitive and fun. I'll do a writeup of the games when I get time/energy but thought I'd share some reflections while I remember.
-If you can keep your opponent distracted Ironguts are absolute machines. With everyone worrying about the shooting and Forst (fire) lord they wrecked face in each of the 2k games. Only unit that beat them in combat was 20 Heathguard Bezerkers (who were also tanking the forst-lord at the time) but that was maining due to the dwarves passing 20 out of 24 4+ shrug saves.
-Meeting Engagement is hard if your not bringing the monsters. With our only good shooting going in rearguard and no fancy movement tricks, I struggled to bring much damage to bear withing the 4 turns. I only went 2-1 thanks to advantageous pairings and some good priority rolls.
-Iron-blasters are a great jack-of-all trades units. For 120 points they can tank, screen, shoot and even beat up non-combat units. Tempted to include them outside underguts as they spend most of the weekend shooting scattershots anyway.
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4 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I've not looked at the entire things, but from the previews I agree about invaders - there's a lot of potential in our slower units and for them to become viable in a first turn charge list.
Combos amazingly with Marauders. 20 or 40, deploy as a screen in front of your army, then depending on how your opponent deploys either leave them there or pull them off the board for first turn guaranteed charge.
Also great for protecting keepers from first turn shooting.
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5 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:
Sadly, they seem to be overlooked currently.
Yhetees do have some synergies within Winterbite and in combination with a HoTT (both deemed weak options right now); otherwise, they only have their pile-in to make them more than weak Gluttons.
Gorgers seem to be just the cheaper Ambush version for those who don’t want a Skal. No synergies ruleswise.I think Yhetees are actually in a decent place right now. The 6" pile in is massive, means you can retreat/run and still engage (don't have to charge). Move 9" with run and charge is nice.
-1 to hit can but combined with Firebelly's Ash Clould, Butchers Greasy Deluge and Germinds. Being able to summon back dead models is always good.
If the models weren't so dam ugly I'd be temped to try and build a list around them.
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3 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
You can't use the shrine on Hellstriders.
Bah, your right. Forgot it needed Slaves as well as mortal.
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Another game on Tuesday and more success for the underguts.
My list was the same as last time:
Spoiler
(Tyrant, Firebelly, FLoSH, 4 Ironguts, 4,4,2,2 lead belchers, 4 Ironblasters, Tyrants Gutguard)
My opponent has Pretrafex Bonereapers:
Archon, Leige Karako, Soulmason, 20,10,10 Mortek Guard, 3 Immortis, 3 Stalkers, Crawler, 2 endless spells and the Mortek Battalion).
The mission was Three places of power.
I deployed in what’s becoming my standard setup, Ironblastser, Tyrant and Guts on one flank (near the Pot), Frostlord on the other and lead belchers covering gaps (and keeping to cover to minimise Crawler damage).
His deployment was more castled up with the heros keeping close to the Immortis guard.
Spoiler
He took first turn (in retrospect I think this was a mistake) advanced towards the objectives and laid a massive amount of spell buffs on his army. Literally every spell succeeded leaving the 20 Mortek unit massively buffed (including mystic shield and 5+ mortal wound save). The Crawler took out one Lead Belcher). Archo took the central objective screened by 10 Guard.
My turn, he unbound the Ash Cloud with Archon then I push everything towards the centre of his army, with the plan to shoot the Blasters at Archon (3+ to hit, yay but knowing the imortis would take most of the wounds) and concentrate everything else on cutting down number of Mortis Guard on the field. I the Frost Lord did a great job this round with the Blast Keg killing 5 of the big unit of mortis guard (despite 5+ save), his charing killing 3 more from another unit, metal cruncher taking 5 more and poor rolling attacks doing just enough to finish off the last two (15 petratrex Mortek guard in one turn, nice!). The Ironblasters through 14 wounds onto Archon which wiped out the Immortis guard through redirected wounds. The combination of lots of charges and the Ironguts attacks crippled the big unit of Mortek (3 left at the end of the turn) while I only lost an Ironblaster (screening out the Stalkers from hitting Juicy targets) and a smattering of wounds on other units. The Tyrant failed his charge so I didn’t claim any objectives but with the Immortis and over half of the guard dead, I was feeling good.
Spoiler
He won priority and had to take the turn (or I would have shot my units out of combat and charged his heros/crawler). This magic stung with the Frost lord losing 7 wounds and him dolling out rerolls like candy. Archon moved objectives to stay away from the bulk of my forces. His one full unit of Guard moved forward to try and finish off the Frost Lord. His Leigh moved around the main battlelines to help out the Stalkers and remains of the large Guard unit but ended up fluffing the 6” charge to engage (and take the objective). In went the Guard to the
Frost Lord but metal chomper rolled a hot 6 again and gutted them before they could strike, leaving 4 as easy pickings for the Lord. In the main melee the Stalkers chomped through another Iron-blastser but couldn’t get to the Ironguts who lost a model to the Crawler’s shooting but still finished off the large unit of Mortek.
My turn and with all the Mortek and Immortis dead, his heros exposed, and my army virtually unscathed it was basically a cleaning up job. Forst lord and 5 lead belchers took out Archon, the rest of the Lead belchers engaged his Mason and Crawler, and the, 2 blasters, Tyrant and Guts finished off the Leigh and Stalkers. End of turn two he just had the caster and crawler left, so called it.
Lessons learner:
-Fateseeker bigname feels like a waste on the Tyrant. Between the distraction of the Frostlord and Gutguard he’s only taken 3 wounds in 5 games. Might replace it with Longstrider or Giantbreaker.
-The ability to do lots of little packages of damage in shooting, charging and combat is a massive advantage. Give s you such flexibility to engage enemy units in the way that avoids their strength (e.g. no reroll saves from shooting for Mortek) and means that damage is almost never wasted overkilling units.
-Petrafex aren’t that scary if your packing enough rend and mortal wound output
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2 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I've found a good base is a mix of these models:
Chaos Lord (for the double pile in)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (for the spell and rr saves)
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (actually surprisingly good in combat with rerolls from the fane ; either with Dimensional Blade on axe, Pendant of Slaanesh, or Ethereal Amulet)
As for troops, I tend to go with min battleline (usually Hellstriders), but I've found Chosen pretty excellent thanks to the 6s being mortal wounds and extra attacks, especially when rerolling 1s to hit (or rerolling all with spell). I've not seen anyone talk about them so I don't know if I'm missing something, but they put out a tonne of damage and soak it up pretty well.
I tried using Marauders, but they've not been fantastic for me - they crumble too easily in my opinion. That said, I've not tried getting any first turn charge shenanigans with them so maybe they'd be better then.
The biggest struggle is bodies for objectives, but that's where summoning shines.
All good points, I completely agree that Chosen are great. I think most people avoid them because of the old and terrible models: conversion time!
The War-shire is also great if your fielding a lot of mortals, Don't forget that even a marked one can use any of the Prays. So 3+ to give any mortal unit re-roll hit and wounds! Tempted to try a 10 model unit of hellstriders with it, once Soul hunters kick it their damage output gets crazy (for a 200 point unit).
If your that way inclined the Syll Host battalion is also solid (makes the prays work on 2+).
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56 minutes ago, MattyP said:
based on the nurgle subfaction teaser about the Wrath of the Everchosen book coming out, i'll bet there are/is Tzeentch subfactions in there too.
Where did you find this? I see nothing on warhammer community.
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6 hours ago, Killamike said:
The interactions aren't nearly the same. To try say that sequitors and clanrats have the same presence on the table is wrong.
You don't have to do 5 wound to a rat or sequitors to remove it from the space it occupies.
You can't kill a rat and create more bodies on the objective. You can't just bring them back either.
Yes the pinks die first and the banner with them. But then the banner gets folded back in. So now you have to put more resources into killing the banner off again.
The final game of cancon 10 pinks became 72 wounds at the end of the game across 3 objectives.
I play Tzeentch and have for a long time but I'm not gonna sit here and ****** in the wind because I want my dudes to be the best.
Yes to all this and the near universal -1 to hit in combat and plenty of ways to drop even more to hit modifiers.
Also, as only some of the models are on the board they have build in protection against any horde control spells that rely on number of models in the target unit. No small thing since lots of the newer tombs have a 'roll a dice for each model in the target unit' type spells.
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11 minutes ago, chyortskazal said:
May I ask what your normal underguts list is? I have a bloodgullet list, and I just invested in some more ironblasters to also be able to field an underguts focused list, so curious to see what you have been running with success!
Currently running this:
Tyrant: general, trophy rack, fateseeker
Frost Lord on Stone horn: blast keg, metal cruncher
Firebelly: Ash Cloud
4 Ironguts
2* 4 lead Belchers
2 * 2 lead Belchers
4 Ironblasters
Tyrants gut guard.
Did a few short battle reps a few pages back.
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On a 120 point unit, 3 extra 2 damage attacks and 6 1 rend shots (all 3+/3+) is a massive difference. Also means it's often worth charging them in to get the bonus mortal wound and more damage on Rhinox. Changes it to a dual purpose unit, more so with a few of them.
Screening scrap launchers is all fine but then your investing even more points in a pure shooting unit ( that isn't great).
I do agree that Iron Blasters are indifferent outside Underguts, but scrap launchers still seem worse to me.
Personally I am getting a lot of mileage out of Underguts (10 games unbeaten so far), it's not a gun line through it's a mobile melee army with a shooting threat that's hard to ignore or mitigate. Multiple small units of lead belchhers are particularly nasty.
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Problem with scrap launchers is minimum range and aweful melee profile means they are easily nullified by being trapped in combat. Just not a problem with Iron Blasters, who hold their own and keep on blasting. Makes for a much more flexible unit.
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4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I think I need to get another Shaggoth, and maybe a giant. Ghorgon wasn't bad when I tried him out though, might be about the same as a giant with his eating someone ability.
With the points decrease I think there is no comparison: Ghorgon is cheaper, faster, tougher, more reliable, can dish out mortal wounds, can regenerate and has the very handy swallow whole.
On that note, swallow whole is a great tool against ORB, is you eat the Mortek guard unit champion (Mortek Hetakos), they can't re-roll saves any more!
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7 hours ago, Jabbuk said:
That list is really badass man, I like it a lot. I've been looking for a list that was shooty but with some BCR in it too. I'm wondering what you use to screen though, have you thought of gnoblars or gluttons? Why not use those at all? Also, are you in underguts or tribeless?
I use Underguts, otherwise the Ironblasters are just meh.
I did think it would suffer from lack of screens but with so much redundancy and only one soft target, it's no been an issue. Almost any unit in there is ok for a screen, since they are basically all expendable. Depending on what units your worried about you can either spread out to minimise the number of units engaged or cluster up so each unit will only taken damage from a few models.
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1 minute ago, Sunraeteam said:
Exept that if you have to do a retreat move to get within 3 of an enemy model your not going to do a charge move that turn. I like the FAQ quote but it does not mention what Im after. It does clear upp some things with movement and makes it clear that you do not have to end upp on the other side of the unit your flying over. The rules are quite clear that you cant move within 3 exept during a retreat move. Would B nice if this was made explicit. Perhaps this is just me tho. @:-)
You don't have to go within 3", vertical movement is free for fliers, so you just got 6" in the air, nip over the base and back down again. Simples
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Ballista's for ironblasters?
Easy to swap out the cannon:
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My Leadbelchers are trainee Firebellys 😁
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Had another game last night with my Underguts and another crushing victory. Wiped out a Bonereapers army by turn three.
I was running a slightly different list, not relying on MSU as much.
Tyrant: General (Scars) and Gruson Trophy Rack, Metal Cruncher
Firebelly: Ash Cloud
Frost Lord on Stonehorn: Gnoblar Blast Keg
4 Iron Guts,
2 * 4 Lead belchers
4 * 1 Iron Blasters
2 * 2 Lead Belchers
Tyrants Gutguard battalion.
His list was not the usually Bonereapers fare with 3*2 Morghasts! Also 3*10 Mortek, 3 Immortis, 3 Stalkers, 1 Crawler, 1 Leige Kavalos, a Soulmason and the +1 to hit endless spell. He use the run and charge faction for even more speed.
We played total conquest and during deployment we both split our armies between the left and right sides. He sensibly kept his hero well away from the Ironblasters, so the trophy rack had basically zero effect all game.
One side I just put the Frostlord and 8 Lead belchers, with the rest of the army huddled around the Mawpot/Firebelly.
I actually finished deploying first and happily gave him first turn. His turn was relatively uneventful, he marched forward a bit, his Crawler shots bounched off the Frostlord and one unit of Morghast ate a unit of 2 leadbelchers.
I moved forward aggressively to maximise turn one shooting and put pressure on both sides. The frost lord gobbled up a unit of Morghast and my shooting blew away another unit and 12 Mortek Guard. The Iron Guts got a long range charge off against the Stalkers and between impact hits and combat wiped them out.
He got the next turn, killed 2 orgors with shooting but failed the Kavalos' charge into the Frost Lord, leaving a unit of Mortek to get eaten by him. Other than that he charged one Ironblaster but only did a few wounds. A 2 Ogor unit of Lead belchers were heros, being charged by 2 Morghasts (who has take 4 wounds previously) but wiping them out before they could charge: never underestimate an Ogor!
My turn two was completely devastating, wiping out all but three units via a combination of shooting, charge wounds and high damage attacks. Having lots of different damage sources in different phases means you can efficiently apply just enough damage to wipe out units and really cut armies apart when your up close and personal. The only real failure was the FrostLord whole charged the Kavos and killed him before striking (Thunderous Charge and Metal Cruncher), then happily pilled into the Immortas proceed to do 1 damage then get killed in return!
At this stage the game was basically over I had 3 objectives and we only had the Crawled, Hero and Immortas left.
Good game and again surprised at how well Underguts play on the battlefield. I suspect that with some tuning they could compete at the top tables.
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1 minute ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
In theory it’s a nerf. But it’s ironically in practice going to play much better in tournaments because Tzeentch’s biggest opponent is the time clock and paperwork errors. Our power units got nerfed but Changehost is going to be flamer heavy now so faster and less exhausting to run.
I am pretty ecstatic about the book though.
Not sure how it can be seen as a nerf. A minority of units got slightly worse in isolation but we got 3 new powerful alligence abilities: Locus of Change, Agendas and Cults. Tzaangor focus lists (Enlightened on Disks specifically) have arguably lost as much as they gained.
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8 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
I mean, overall Horrors are nerfed over what they were before the new book, AND they went up in points.
Taking the rend cult, plus changehost makes them better than they were before. But you can't nerf the warscroll because those two things exist, since it only really hurts them outside those. So instead you nerf the cult and changehost. That makes much more sense.They really aren't nerfed. Before you had to wait until your next movement phase before they even had a board presence. So your expensive screen disappears to a stiff breeze and is of little defence to double turns (one of the biggest issues caster/shooting heavy lists have to deal with). They gained 6++ on the pinks (lost 5+Sv) and 6+ save on Brims. They gained the new locus (very good for screens with lots of wounds) and even kept their old locus.Their damage output is now triple what it was (if shorter range), this is obviously massive. I explicitly said the Changehost is a big part of the problem, but the rend Cult is hardly essential for them to be an exceptionally good unit.
The casting got worse and the banner is a bit worse but neither are a big deal when the original 10 pinks were so easily wiped out.
They changed roles completely really from a light screen that keeps coming back to a hard to move horde with impressive short range fire power.
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6 hours ago, Gwendar said:
That's the thing though.. while they are indeed glass cannons, the ease in which they can be teleported around every turn and in a 1-drop means you are almost always in control and can keep them from getting hit by anything. While that may put them in a situation in which they can't kill anything "important", killing just any unit a turn will still be detrimental.. like if I lost 20-40 Clanrats in T1 it would put me at a big disadvantage when it comes to objectives, especially when you're going to still have 100+ wounds worth of Horrors on the board that you can also teleport anywhere.
Living City is generally quite easy to screen against as it's the board edges.. and while they don't have to take a battalion to do that, I still argue the utility\power that Changehost provides will almost always be worth it, competitively speaking.I didn't mean to argue Flamers were broken, though I can see how I made it out that way.. they are great for what they do. I'm saying that if you combine them and Horrors together in a Changehost is were things start to get a little nutty as you dictate a lot.
I agree with basically all of this.
Flamers are fine. Good unit but sooo fragile and outside the battalion relatively slow. The play style of massed flamers is a bit dull, but they are far from the only offenders (Rats, Stormcast and Cities all have similar options).
Horrors, are a bit too good. Since they are almost the most points efficient screen in the game and have significant ranged output (not much worse than flamers, if shorter range and they are slower).
The big problem is the changehost battalion, great ability that compensates for the weaknesses of the best units in the tomb, flexibility in what is included and easy to make a one drop list without compromises. This is doubly true when compared to the other demon battalions which are university indifferent and don't compliment any of the units particularly well. Even at 240point people would take changehost, which suggests its way too good.
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Yup, completely agree. To me the Trophy rack is the main reason to use a battalion is that sort of list. With the Gut Guard the tyrant should be reasonable safe.
AoS 2 - Legion of the First Prince Discussion (Belakor)
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Magnus The Blue
Be'lakor- General, Bolt of Ruin
Contorted Epitomie- fourfold blade, Echo of Hatred
The Masque
2 * 10 Daemonettes
10 Pink Horrors
4*5 Seekers
2 Soul Grinders
Host of the Deprived (all Slannesh units).
So, played against Beast of Chaos last night with the above list. Total Commitment, 2k.
His list was roughly
GraveSpawn
Tzaangor Shaman, General, Aetherquarts Broach
Beastlord with Mutating Gnarlblade
Great Bray Shaman
30, 10, 10 Bestigor
30,30,10,10 Ungor Raiders
10 Ungor
1 Chariot
Marauding Brayherd (with most of the army in it)
I must say I was surprised at how well the list played. Belakors command ability is just amazing, the fact you can do in your opponent's turn and you have icons for getting more back means even Slannesh units become surprisingly good at attrition. Over the course of the game I brought back 15 seekers, 20 Daemonettes and 5 Pink horrors.
I didn't manage to summon a single unit, but in the end didn't need it as the Seekers, Soul Grinders and Epitomie just tore through his list. Having lots of fast units meant I could quickly engage almost all his units around the board and stop him focus firing to finish off my units before they got healed back up.
The Epitome was definitely star of the show, rerolled casts/unbinding, Overwelming Aquiessence, Horrible Fascination and great damage output from the fourfold blade. Such a great toolkit to have available.