Scurvydog
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Posts posted by Scurvydog
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47 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:
How many shots they fire? They can shot down a Mega? And I suppose they can't get All Out Attack.
15 judicators are expensive at 600 points and with all out attack they do around 14,5 average damage against a 4+ save (12 vs 3+, 10 vs 2+). With a double tap that should on average kill for example Kragnos.
Of course the double tap is only once per game. Could be good, not sure I would put 600 points into a unit of 15 of them though... Unlike DoK snakes, they are very slow and hard to reposition without translocation.
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3 minutes ago, boyadventurer said:
The foot priests have more W than a Celestant on Dracoth, whuuu?
Their logic is 6 + 2 for gryph hound baked into the profile... Apparently that counts for more than a Dracoth... Vandus seems more in line with 9 wounds, only 7 for the regular celestant for 215 is meh, especially when you can get a knight draconis at 255 who is a giga chad in comparison, so nobody will use the dracoth anyway.
Looking at protectors, they are insane. 5 attacks with rend 2 and 3" reach and +1 to saves in addition to their 3+ save. Grab a unit of 10 with Star Maces, they can have 4 attacks with d3 MW on 2+ and then 31 attacks with rend 2 dmg 1. If they use the holy order that is 8 attacks with d3 MWs on 2+ and 36 attacks on top! Go knights excelsior for potential +1 to hit and wound and make them battleline. Teleport them with a lord relictor on a 2+ and move them forward in the move phase...
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36 minutes ago, Matrindur said:
Seems like they might have uploaded the wrong preorder video today? But that probably means the rest is coming next week
(If the video gets taken down it shows of all the other models for Stormcast and Kruleboyz not released yet and says preorder now at the end)
This was the video shown back at the preview event, I do not think that it means that is the exact preorders next time. The big bird is missing for Kruleboyz and dragon stuff for SC. It might be this though, but it seems odd to just repeat a months old video.
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16 minutes ago, The Red King said:
What changed with them? The video I saw mentioned fulminators coming in units of 1 but not being battel line?
They come in both the regular 2 which is battleline in hammers, but also 1, same for the new Stormdrake Guards. The single model unit is limited to 1 per hero, either celestant on dracoth or knight Draconis. This is purely so there is an option to use the entire kit, as these heroes are built from a 2 model kit, so GW decided to make some kind of use for that leftover model.
Fulminators will be good, they got 5 attacks with rend 2 dmg 1, and have dmg 3 on the charge! A unit of 2 than get 10 attacks with rend 2 dmg 3, and 6 attacks with rend 2 dmg 2, scary for 220 points!
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4 minutes ago, PJetski said:
First impressions
Winners:
- Celestant Prime has a 4+ ward now
- Gardus
- Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (Way more damage, more wounds)
- Dracoths
- Dracolines
- Ordinator
- Gardus is worth mentioning twice he is the reason you want to play Hallowed Knights
- Tauralons (new Comet Trail is incredible)
- Judicators (both kinds)
- Raptors (both kinds)
- Lord-Relictor
- All the new models*
- Knight-Draconis
- Stormdrake Guard
- Retributors and Protectors (but not Decimators)
- Liberators (Improved, still bad, but still the cheapest battleline so theyll see play)
- Ballista?
- Celestian Vortex
Losers:
- Prosecutors (hammers better, javelins much worse, still useless)
- Castigators (they got better but still useless)
- Sequitors
- *Vanquishers
- *Knight-Relictor
- Gavriel
- Aetherwings (RIP)
- Vandus (command ability gutted)
- Lord-Aquilor
- Celestant
- Veritant
- Azyros
- Venator
- Heraldor (RIP)
- Drakesworn Templar
Pretty much agree on this. At the points the Drakesworn templar is just so much worse than the lord celestant, with only a 65 point difference the 4+ save instead of 3+ just makes it a never take option sadly.
I ordered a Stormstrike Chariot, although I dont know how often it will be used, I will bring it in more casual games for sure, as it is an interesting model, but other than that, not sure.
There are many good things in there for sure, but some will be disappointed of course, yet it should be possible to at least build any type of army you want, although far from all will be A-S tier competitive stuff.
The loss of hero phase shooting from Anvils hurt the shootcast lists though and I feel bad for those who went and purchased the vanguard triple battalion setup, as that is a thing of the past. Silver lining is all the vanguard stuff got stronger, but probably not strong enough for the points to really do much.
Stormcast for sure does not have the raw terrifying output of the new Ironjawz for example, except perhaps for the Annihilators with hammers, those guys hit HARD, but 240 pts for 9 wounds and 3+ save, that is rough.
So much to take in though. For sure the celestant prime will show up in many lists and also in almost all competitive city lists or as order ally, he is just a chad with built in deep strike and 4+ ward now, much much more staying power for the points there.
I guess new models better rules is still not proven, I am mostly sad that the new Vanquishers are so bad, I really wanted to have them replace my liberators as they look awesome, but they are just so terrible, Liberators with the prime having a grand weapon does more damage and still get +1 save... What were they thinking? Vigilors are cool in concept, but at almost 200 points for 5 they will be a hard sell... at least I can see them being used more than Vanquishers though.
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Ironjawz are going to be proper scary. Everything just got better and more flexible, although some nerfs too.
Mawkrushas went down in points and got a better profile and being able to issue the same command to multiple units is HUGE, all out defence? Mighty destroyers? wow!
The Ironjawz Waaagh is awesome, rend is what seals the deal, so everything will be rend 2-3, auch!
Mad as hell is gone, OK tradeoff when you can mighty destroyer multiple units, command trait can make it even more. The generic +1 charge is also gone, as is mighty destroyers fight in the hero phase, which is just a pile in, that is of course some hefty nerfs. I do think the other changes make up for it, again the multi command from megabosses is huge. Warchanters got better. The megaboss on foot can be a good idea too.
Da Choppas with MSU brutes can be proper scary too. As is the fast un mount trait, which just opens up so many nasty tactics with a mawkrusha. Megabosses with rip toof fist still having a 3+ save was the major deal winner, now it is just better, 7 damage 2 attacks, 8 with rend 2 dmg 3, can possibly move 3 times in 1 turn, that is insane and opens up different ways to avoid stuff like redeploy and unleash hell.
Brutes are just better than before, but a bit more costly, but seems fair, I dont mind that ardboyz got changed, they got cheaper and worse, but now are distinct from the other options, making the few Ironjaw units a bit more unique in their roles. The army can be surprisingly fast and also very very hard hitting, like crazy hard hitting, imagine 10 brutes with hackas and violent fury during a waagh, you got 21 attacks with rend 3 dmg 2, 6 attacks with rend 3 dmg 3 and 4 with rend 2 dmg 3, slap on an all out attack (or just attack something with 4+ wounds char) and they got an average output of 35 dmg vs 4+ saves... madness they will annihilate a Mega Gargant on the spot. During Waagh a Mawkrushas also deals an average of 27,5 vs 4+ saves with +1 to hit. These units will melt anything.
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6 minutes ago, cadmachine said:
If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down.
Think that is underselling it a bit. There are great combos in there.
If you run dragons you can have -1 to be wounded across the board from the menagierie command trait. The Dragon Guards can move and charge in the hero phase, avoiding redeploys and unleash hell, perfect for pinning units. Big Dragons, especially with a general giving -1 to be wounded are really tanky, as they also reduce attacks by 1, so absolute monsters to throw into enemy units, especially due to their tail attack. Krondys with +3 cast on Starfall and his own spell can be super handy, Starfall locking down pile ins, that really messes up armies relying on the 6" pile in shenanigans. Lots of mortal wounds going around, even at range.
Stormhosts are decent fun, Hammers are all around great to give 6+ wards wholly within 12" of objectives, that is always great. LOTS of battleline options, some are indeed perhaps better than others, the losers seem to be the new vanquishers though, dreadful damage, expected them to have 2 attacks with dmg 2. Liberators got a bit more punch, so decent for the lowest cost battleline.
Paladins are great and can be battleline too, 3+ saves, higher damage output, you basically got +1 save and +1 rend on them all and more attacks too. Combo them with Knights Excelsior for murder. Get a Lord Releictor with Translocation to teleport in the hero phase on a 2+, they can still move after!!! (crazy). Sequitors got access to a 5+ ward, that should not be underestimated and especially evocator kitties got some more MW output and the mounts got d3 dmg at all times, not just when charging.
Dracothian guard also got much better, more wounds and rend and damage across the board. Holy Orders are also create some interesting tactics. Could be used for 10 judicators to dish out some really dangerous damage. Unleash thy hatred for 1 attacks on a paladin unit, for example the new great weapon annihilators is scary. Celestant prime is also really really good with 4+ ward.
There are very few things that got worse, most things gpt way better and many things are more streamlined. The only thing so far that stands out as somewhat bonkers though is the translocation prayer. 2+ chant on a lord to teleport a unit without any movement phase limitations is mad.
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Thinking of something like this list after seeing all of the rules:
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Holy Command: Steadfast MarchLeaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Drakescale Armour
- Mount Trait: Light of the Young Star
Krondys (600)
- Spell: StarfallBattleline
Units
2 x Concussors (220)
2 x Concussors (220)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
1 x Stormstrike Chariot (165)Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90Alternative if you just want to buy a lot of dragons!
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Holy Command: Steadfast MarchLeaders
Knight Draconis(255)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Drakescale Armour
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Krondys (600)
- Spell: StarfallBattleline
Units
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101The command trait Master of the Celestial Menagerie is a -1 to wound against all your monsters while the general is alive, that is crazy good! Of course list 2 double down on this with only monsters.
This is a list of monsters where everyone has 3+ saves and is at -1 to be wounded, the tankyness is real. There is actually also a lot of ranged firepower, with all those dragon breaths on both lists.
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Stormdrake guard er crazy good! Draconic onslaught is a once per game free normal move in the hero phase, and if it ends within 12" of an enemy, they can immediately charge in the hero phase! This completely messes with so many things like redeploy and unleash hell, that is going to be so darn useful, with 12" move and flying, they can be whereever you need them.
Not to forget the knight draconic can make them breath attack in the hero phase too, which adds up to a terrifying amount of mortal wounds and charge potential in a phase where the opponent can do nothing about it.
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5 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:
Any leaks for the sacrosanct chamber?
Apparently sequitors are 4+ save and their channel is now 6s explode on weapon or 5+ ward for shield. Kitty evocators got 3 dice each for MW on 4+
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17 minutes ago, frostfire said:
Stormdrake Guard are 3+ save and 9 wounds each. 285pts per 2. That's 18 wounds on 3+ for 285pts
Sounds like they get some extra move shenanigans as well and the knight draconis can have them breath attack more. They sound really compelling for their cost too.
Was going to buy them anyway though
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Seems all paladins are on a 3+ save now and only the shield guys are 2+, however protectors get +1 save.
Noteworthy damage output now too:
Retributors also gained an attack and rend, so they are on 3+/3+/-2/2, still do mortals on 6s
235 per 5Annihilators with grand hammers
3 attacks, 3+/2+/-2/3
240 per 3Assuming +1 attack for a prime and that all models in the unit fights, these 2 units deal just about the same damage. I think I like the retributors more for more wounds and bodies in this case, although have not seen any additional warscroll rules.
These guys will be nasty with the translocation still being able to move after the hero phase...
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53 minutes ago, Nizrah said:
They nerfed Vandus into oblivion! Not like he seen tabletop... Jeez GW...
3 attacks with rend 1 and dmg 2 for a Lord celestant... What... That is worse than any combat hero, like a free guild general hits way harder...
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2 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:
That’s very attractive at that price point
It is all nice and good, the question is what role does it fill, how does it help deal with any of the largest threats? It is not a monster so only counts for 2 models. It can support a bit but not really kill much by itself or use any commands, so while all around ok warscroll at ok points, I somehow doubt it will fit into a competitive setting.
That is OK, not everything does and chariots are often in this odd position of not really having a clear purpose. If you need speed, why not take teleporting paladors, if you need heavy cav there are multiple Dracothian guard types and also darn knights riding flying dragons. Why take a chariot? Rule of cool perhaps
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20 minutes ago, armisael said:
I thought that Knight Judicator has some synergy with Judicator.
Brought to you by the same guy who designed the sylvaneth arch revenant warscroll, who buffs kurnoths and not revenants 😛
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21 minutes ago, HollowHills said:
I don't want to be doom and gloom but the stormcast rules are quite disheartening. They all seem to indicate powercreep to me.
Warclans might have some amazing synergy, but right now they look a lot worse than the stormcast.
So a chariot with some mortal wounds on the charge and an average damage output of 4.5 and a hero with a bow dealing 3,3 dmg average (vs 4+ saves) is powercreep? There really is nothing shown so far to suggest any kind of meta defining synergy and of course we do not know any point values at all.
Nothing suggests so far that they got anything to compete with the strongest armies out there right now. Only thing that stands out is above average saves, but that is really not all that important anymore in a meta defined by excessive mortal wound output and extreme maneuverability, neither does anything suggests they can stand up to the oppressive spell casters out there.
I am not saying they will not be good, I am just saying if they are, those rules have not been shown yet that will take them from mid tier to anything like top tier.
It is not looking better for warclans either, at least the KB got MW on 6s going for them and they get access to an above average spell caster with some anti magic shutdown and a bit more board control, so in that regard we have seen some more tactical flexibility that is often seen in top lists, although we have only seen mediocre warscrolls to be backed up by those rules.
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40 minutes ago, Ogregut said:
The books won't be on shelves and in people's hands until the 18th, still plenty of time for them to release the app.
Seems the community rep at least still sticks to this month for the app. Keeping expectations low, but hoping for the best
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On 9/4/2021 at 6:43 AM, Leafs said:
change the slaanesh mark as now "on 6" effects like mortal wounds do not stack with the exploding 6s, making that mark useless.
Much of the book is a mess now thanks to this and wards. Mark of chaos undivided, chaos rune shields and warshrine wards, none of them stack anymore. They need to review the marks and I hope the new stuff in the WD will address this, for good and bad, marks are just really not balanced well at all, now more than ever.
Unfortunately there is most likely no new warscrolls coming, so don't expect any fixes to runeshields for example. I still dont get why so many units can't take marks, when it is basically the only allegiance ability STD has.
Lucky for StD there are some powerful warscrolls in the book and added on, right now demon princes of khorne are just everywhere, Archaon and Belakor are obviously both good too, but the books power relies mostly on these few very strong heroes, but is rather meh otherwise. Nobody plays StD like a "real army", with massed warriors and knights for example, they are just poor and lacks impact. The 10 man rule for warriors, especially after increasing points and making 10 for 200, really hurt them a lot, as taking 400 points of dudes with no rend might be an OK anvil, but simply too many points for a blob that does very little of anything.
Looking forward to seeing what they have come up with, it would make no sense to make such a battletome update if it was just stuff that could have been FAQed I guess...
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3 minutes ago, Colgado said:
It doesn't seem to be the strongest ability. But vindictors/vanquishers with yndrasta/relictor/arcanum support become this annoying unit that fights, dies, fights again, explodes, then gets reanimated. Definitely fun in theory.
These are the cute builds that sound like fun but never works in any real game. Like the crematorium bonereapers that could explode and be brought back by harvesters + Arkhan etc, but in any real game it never works out that well
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Just now, Mutton said:
They really don't want to show any more Kruleboy rules.
We know more about Kruleboyz than ironjawz and bonesplitterz, they have based entire articles around 2-3 single rules on a few warscrolls and a few Kruleboyz clans, but nothing about the old orruks. Expect old orruks to again be the only factions without both terrain features and endless spells, now souped together 3 factions in total
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1 minute ago, C0deb1ue said:
I get that, I just don't think it's particularly "devastating". Yeah its a good change and they were severely lacking before (especially vs ard boyz) but it's hardly game changing. Anyway still need the rest of the info.
Well agreed, guess it is just hanging on to the one good thing shown for Ironjawz so far, otherwise no information has gotten out. The other rules really need to be good to make up for that 4+ save on the Mawkrusha, oh dear...
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6 hours ago, Rachmani said:
(From a consistency & lore PoV, we all know that tournament success might be based off of different factors.)
It doesn't matter if they make a model with 10 attacks, rend 4 and damage 5, it still will not beat Gotrek for his 430 points. The only thing right now that can shift this balance is if ward save ignoring rules pop up more, which also kind of defeats the purpose of wards in the first place...
As you well put it, tournament success depends so much more on stacking synergies in a given army, expect of course Gotrek who could probably defeat every single unit in the game, if they lined up and came at him 1 unit at a time. Scarbrand, Mawkrushas, mega gargants, it doesn't matter.
I will agree in any other context the newer characters for Stormcast does appear to be very cool and thematic, as they both can put out some hurt while also doing things for the army and opening synergies for play, even if it is not meta defining synergy (time will tell).
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3 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:
Out of honest interest, why are the brutes so devastating now? they literally got a single rend added to one weapon profile so I am not sure what changed apart from Ard boyz being changed to no rend multi-attacks. I guess that pushes brutes into the limelight more but they are hardly massively different.
Rend is a big deal though, but it is not just one weapon, the Gore Choppa also got rend 2, even in units of 10 you will have 2 gore choppas with reach 2", 3 attacks with rend 2 dmg 2 base is a pretty good infantry weapon.
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1 minute ago, SunStorm said:
I suspect we will find everything out next Saturday, assuming that's when the books arrive in the hands of the reviewers and they can confirm/deny the various warscroll changes.
Going to need the big beer mug and snuggle blanket for that man reads book session for 2 entire books, while my wallet weeps in the corner with a feeling of trepidation.
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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Stormcast weapons are just wildly inconsistent on what they do... Liberators with great swords got 3+/3+/-1/d2, I would assume vanquishers had that profile, sacrificing +1 save from shields to get a tiny bit more offensive power, but no. I see no reason at all to ever take Vanquishers and Vigilors at 195 pts is a hard sell, but at least they can give somebody else +1 to hit...
A shame, those models really look good, bu eh, going to break the bank on dragons anyway