Scurvydog
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Posts posted by Scurvydog
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What is this crazy talk about too low output from the bows, try 220 points for a Stegadon with 3 shots, effectively now shooting like 1 kurnoth hunter, then that must have no point to it at all by that logic?
Strange that the arch revenant does not buff... well revenants, hunters are already super good value. The command ability seem a bit uninspired as well and again seem to be mostly wasted on tree revenants of all things. Had hoped to see the tree revenant evolve into more of a backline of the sylvaneth, they are the poster buys, instead of being a backline commando support unit, doing nothing but being annoying.
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Releasing the box before both the new khorne and slaanesh tomes also seems like a poor idea. The FeC and Skaven box seemed much better planned out with a double release and some excitement and hype. People are more inclined to start new armies along with a new updated book as well, so the Wrath and Rapture box timing makes little sense to me.
If the Gloomspite vs sylvaneth box is real and matches a sylvaneth release, then that makes a lot of business sense, pushing a relatively new faction along with a updated faction release.
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Guess this required the perspective of a AoS 1 player, as I have only been playing AoS in 2nd edition for real.
If you know command abilities worked different with an old ruleset, and this outdated book has very little designer commentary and useful errata, then it is difficult to know the original intention of the rule, as everyone in my gaming group saw it like I did, but we all started playing here in 2nd edition.
So now my Ironjawz will be even worse and not dangerous at all to charge in the opponents phase, nice.
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The rumor is strongly pointing at Sylvaneth next with a decently big release:
https://spikeybits.com/2019/04/rumors-new-models-battletome-for-sylvaneth-in-may.html
I have no idea why Sylvaneth now, as others seem more in need of updates and adding new characters to a faction with 50% characters as models seems strange as well, so taking it with some salt I think.
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2 hours ago, broche said:
waaaagh is used in your own hero phase and trigger at the next combat phase.
"If a Megaboss uses this ability, count up the number of Ironjawz units within 10" of them at the start of the combat phase of the turn and roll a dice..."
It states at the start of the combat phase of the turn, not "your turn" and nothing about using it in the hero phase, it would make little sense using an ability in a phase where it does nothing and "triggers" later, nothing supports that here. It clearly states you do this at the start of the combat phase of a turn, so I dont know where that interpretation comes from, did GW address this anywhere?
A command ability only defaults to being used in the hero phase if nothing else is stated, which there is here.
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The Megaboss both counts as a unit and gets the full benefit and attacks himself.
You use Whaagh at the start of the combat phase and then it lasts for that phase only. This means you need to plan where all your units are after charges, so charging 1-2 units too far ahead and out of range of whaagh (10" for a megaboss on foot) will be a problem.
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The ironfist is very costly at 1k points and you will most likely have too few wounds on the table.
I like the first list the best, but suggest splitting the brutes to 2x5 for multiple reasons:
1. with 2x5 you get 2 brute bosses who hit very hard and they will do most of the damage after using whaagh command ability.
2. With 10 man you can most likely not get all into combat anyway, so need to use gore hackas with 2" reach but only 3 attacks, you dont want to do that in such a small game generally. 2 small units can better use 2 choppas and get 2 bosses.
3. Whaagh command ability works by counting the number of Ironjawz units within range, which is only 10" for a Megaboss on foot, then roll a d6 and get LESS than the number of units in range, so the less units, the more likely this roll will fail and you get nothing. having 2 units of brutes helps with this. with 2x5 brutes, 2 heroes and 3 units of gruntas you have 7 units, so less hard to have 6 units in range (the megaboss himself counts, so need 5 more near him). Remember if you have 6 units and roll a 6 you get 2 attacks instead of 1!
The Whaagh command ability stacks for as many command points you have, so let's say you are in turn 3 combat phase and have not used any command points, then you will have 3 with the list above. You can then use the command ability Whaaagh 3 times. You roll 3 dice and count the unit within 10" of your megaboss, as explained above you want 5 more besides the boss himself to make sure it does not fail and you get 2 attacks on a 6. Lets say you roll those 3 dice and get a 3, 4 and 6, they of course all succeed as you have 6 units total in range, but the 6 is 2 attacks, so you get plus 4 attacks with ALL melee weapons on a model.
It is important that this is for ALL weapons, this is also why the brute boss is so good with the claw and smasha, as that is 2 weapons, so in the above case he gets 4 more attacks with EACH for a total of 5 claw attacks and 6 smasha attacks, brutal! This also goes for your megaboss with his choppa and the riptooth fist and Gore gruntas get +attacks for both the rider and the boar. This is basically the power of Ironjawz.
As for artifacts and command traits you want something to make the above happen, or make sure it does not fail. 1. You need command points but maybe more importantly 2. Your megaboss must stay alive to use the ability.
I like to protect my megaboss at least with the Ironclad general trait to reduce rend against him by 1, this is very handy on his 3+ save. Alternatively Prophet of the Whaagh lets you reroll the Whaagh dice, so if you lose a unit or two, it is less likely to fail or if you got 6+ units, you can try to roll again to get a 6 for 2 attacks.
For artifacts you have a lot of options and it might depend a bit on what you normally play against. The Ignax scales from malign sorcery gives 4+ save against mortal wounds, always handy and helps him not get sniped by spells etc before he does his whaagh, never a bad choice.
Gryph feather charm is also nice, as that gives him a minus 1 to be hit modifier and 1" more move, this is a decent artifact if you do not normally face armies with high mortal wound output.
If you want offensive power instead, then either the Ironjawz artifact "Destroyer" for 1 more dmg on his choppa is alright or if you phase a lot of high save stuff like Sylvaneth, Stormcasts and such, Blade of realities from Ulgu gives his choppa -3 rend.
Oddball option is the aetherquartz brooch, this has an effect, when every time you use a command point, you roll a dice and on a 5+ you get a command point back. This is highly unreliable but can be insanely effective with some luck to get even more whaaaghs.
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15 minutes ago, Czarnyjas said:
Hello guys, im new in Warhammer AoS and im choose IJ, becouse if like big muscle orruks. Till yesterday i played 4th games and 3 of them i lost.
First battle was big mistake, i don't known all special rules and my opponent was very skilled player so i don't blame any1, but last two battles was against Stormacast with same noobie player like me. We've been playing two 1500pkt battles and they where huge defeat.
Now sing up to my local store narrative campaing. My first opponent will be Skavens. We'are gonna play 1000pkt. battle on Duality of Death scenario.
Im looking some1 to help me understand how can i effectly build my army, for this combat and what are my biggest pros and cons.
How my whole army looks
- Gordrakk
- 2 Shaman
- 2 Warchanter
- 5x5 Brutes
- 3x3 Gore Gruntas
- 2x10 Ard boyscheers guys
In my opinion Gordrakk is really not worth it, even in high point games he is all around "meh", I would only consider him along another Mawkkrusha in Ironsunz or Bloodtoofs battalion, so his command ability can affect everyone. In himself he is too squishy, a standard Mawkrusha as general can get the ironclad trait (rend value is 1 worse against him) and an artifact, such as ignax scales to get 4+ ave vs mortal wounds or a grpyh feather charm for a -1 to be hit, this makes him much much more durable than Gordrakk for much less points.
You have no other megaboss model on foot, so with those models you have and if people are ok with it, then you should use Gordrakk as a regular Mawkrusha, take a warchanter and 1 unit of brutes, ardboyz and goregruntas, that is 1000 pts. The MK is expensive at 1k points but often still worth it, Ironfist battalion is too expensive at 1k, so mobility is poor and having the MK fly 12" is important, especially with mighty destroyers on a 4+ he can move twice potentially.
Downsides to this list is a lower model count and only 5 units, so even if all are in 18" range in the combat phase, Mighty Whaagh command ability will still fail on a roll of a 6. You can reduce this problem a bit if you take prophet of the whaagh command trait, but then you lose ironclad and with half your point invested in the Mawkrusha, you want him to survive as well as possible.
An alternative list if you can get a standard megaboss on foot is:
1x megaboss
1x warchanter
1 xshaman (the funguid cave shaman is way better than the IJ one though)
2x5 brutes
1x10 ardboyz
1x3 goregruntas
Remember you can stack Whaagh with more command points for more attacks, none of the IJ units will hold up will to any other dedicated melee units without Whaagh.
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16 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:
On that front. We had another match him and I. Also part of the campaign.
Only with 1300 vs 2000 in his favour.I did not win.
I *wiped him*. Major victory by holding the key objective. 710 points lost vs 2000 destroyed. Today was a good day to be a greenskin.Yea especially those without experience against IJ will run into trouble.
Against IJ a player should just go for objectives and choose few fights carefully.
Yesterday I had a 1500pt game with a Sylvaneth player who tried a durthu and 3x3 kurnoth hunters with just two support casters and tree revenants. He did not plan for mighty destroyers though, after taking a good turn 1, he moved forward with Durthu, and I got mighty destroyers of to move the MK double. He had lined up to face my units of brutes and ard boyz, so my MK had them in range for Whaagh. used 2 CP and rolled a 6 so +3 attacks, Durthu got one shot and a unit of brutes went right after and wiped a unit of summoned dryads in their way.
My opponent nearly conceded right there, and perhaps by being demoralized missed that he could easily have won through objectives, nearly all my brutes died moving slooowly through wyldwoods and the MK was down to 2 wounds remaining after a scrap with some of the kurnoth hunters.
Yes I won, and it was not so much fun for my opponent, who lost due to inexperience mostly, even though insisting that +3 attacks from whaagh is the most overpowered mechanic in the game, while I tried to explain that a screen of 10 dryads could have made it all impossible.
IJ is just that kind of army that is hard to win with against more experienced opponents that know your few tricks, but those game you do win, the other guy will probably not have found that fun, as it is just a rough beatdown (I would agree that is orruk themed though).
Hoping for a new tome with more options, tougher brutes and ardboyz, more utility, useful battalions and perhaps less alpha strike stacking.
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If Bonesplitterz come before Ironjawz AND get the foot of gork spell (IJ spell atm) in endless spell form then I don't know if I will rage or cry more :s I have no idea how GW plans their schedule with these tings, it makes no sense not to update the most outdated tome they even got new models for. Or have their marketing guys phone around with other IP interests, like TW: Warhammer 2 releasing a lizardmen DLC, aligning stuff with that increased interest would be smart business, but then again, it is GW...
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On 4/2/2019 at 10:53 PM, KillagoreFaceslasha said:
Now it's my moment. Mass charges all over the board, my entire army is in CQC. I activate my command ability.
Six times.
Thanks to prophet of the WAAAGH! I rolled 3 sixes and 3 successes with 7 units. I got +9 attacks.
This right here sums up my #1 issue with IJ. Having a fun balanced game with them is hard, either they get steamrolled by most competent lists or objective grabbing, or this happens. The allegiance ability also cements the point that it is a snowball army, so either you have no fun getting rolled over or your opponent has no fun.
The entire stacking mechanic seems broken by design, but is the only really viable way to go, as the IJ warscrolls are underwhelming by themselves.
I would not have gone back and adjusted attacks, you even end up losing anyway to an opponent who made the wrong plays. If a 2k DoK list loses to a 1,5k IJ list, then that is fully deserved no matter what. Although I know what you are trying to do, then take the win fast and play again
There are so many ways to counter play the whaaag mechanic which is why IJ lose so much.
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2 hours ago, Nevar said:
If this is true I am the biggest cheater on the planet. I don't see where or why you cannot re-roll successful charges.
That said, it has never gotten me a WoT, but I have tried it several times unaware this was against the rules if it is...
Unless there is a FAQ somewhere that disputes this, there is nowhere in the core rules that says you can' reroll any charge roll you want, the command ability has no mention of it needing to be for a failed charge, as there can be many reasons to want a longer charge range, even if it technically brings you in range of an opponent (which you do not need to choose before having a final roll). You can also choose not to charge at all, despite being able to reach something, this happens after having the final roll anyway, but it prevents the unit to make any further charge attempts, which I don't think matters for anyone at this point.
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6 hours ago, DevCake_ said:
Hi, pretty new player here, have only played about 3 games (as SCE) so far. I started out with the Soul Wars box, and built the SCE side out to a 1000 points army, Now I'm looking to do the same with the Nighthaunt side, and hope to get your feedback on my first draft list! keep in mind that this is trying to stay relatively cheap to buy, as I don't want a massive investment after the SW box.
So here's the list: ...
If you don't want to buy anything else, then this is of course a legal and playable list, but it is very low on wounds and will have trouble against anything but other casual 1k lists, but if that is your meta, all should be good.
For a more competetive approach I don't think running a battalion, especially shroudguard pays of in in low point nighthaunt armies (although very few 1k lists for any armies work with battalions). Those 5 man squads will get deleted by most things with no way to recover from healing, simply focus 5 down and they are gone for good.
Removing the battalion and possibly one of the heroes, knight of shrouds would be my choice, and then run 15 bladeheists, 20 chainrasps and 20 grimghasts, with the guardian of souls with no artifact and the spirit torment with a midnight time, that is one of my goto 1k lists at least, nothing here is easy to remove from the table in one go, so healing can kick in, guardian babysitting reapers and/or rasps, and torment as general with ruler trait running with the bladegheists, this is heavy support and high healing output for blocks of models that are less likely to all get wiped in one turn.
I know that involves more models, but maybe something to consider if moving onwards with nighthaunt at least for future purchases. At least I hope there was something useful in my feedback, but I would also like to hear if you end up playing the original list and how it goes.
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It's tough to balance out unless GW really sits down and decides what they want Ironjawz to be. Are these guys truly the elite of the elite ironclad fightning monsters? The fluff does seem to indicate this, more than a green tide of overwhelming numbers for the Ironjawz, which is more the traditional orruk ways.
The FEC rules of mustering could fit a green tide theme well if they chose to go that route, so for example brutes are still tough with their 3 wounds, but really not the kings of combat in their own right. If the warchanters though could do something similar to the attendants of FEC or the spirit torment of NH to replace models, then it might be different.
Or go the elite route and make the models worth their points in their own right, with the current melee meta I doubt they would even be too OP with the ironclad rule mentioned and the standard brute changed to 3 attacks down from 4 but with flat 2 damage or something, to make the point that these guys hit hard.
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A new book would be best, I think the current pricing for our battleline (heroes and especially MK are overcosted still) matches what the army should be, namely a more elite orruk army. I don't want brutes to be cheap and weak, they are the biggest and the toughest infantry and their rules should reflect this. New units like Evocators who plain does everything better in combat and are wizards as well at around the same points is what really mess up the balance here.
I really hope for a change to how Whaaag works currently, even though it makes sense a blob of orruks become more dangerous, it is just not very interesting to play, when you are forced to move around inside the megaboss whaaag bubble or lose out on the only shot we got at doing proper damage. Stacking command points for this purpose as well seems to double dip in the monotony, as we got no other interesting options at all and can hardly afford it regardless.
Smashing and bashing is also a pretty strange rule, as all it does is allow snowballing, so during that whaag alfa you might table your opponent there if all stars align. Nobody likes this in the long run and I feel more interesting things could be done with the concept of the green tide of violence escalating. Some sort of mix between the Idoneth tides and Khorne blood tithe, playing into the warchanters hyping up the boyz. At least something with more of a gameplay impact would be more fun I think, perhaps even baking in some of the current battalion effects into this mechanic, like ere we go.
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16 minutes ago, Rhargar said:
@dmorley21
Interesting list, i like it, seems to be fun.
But can you explain me, why do you use a Cairn Wraith, for me it is not a good choice. What are your reasons to take it in your list?
The battalion requires a Cairn Wratih (Death stalkers).
There is some tax involved, but I guess he uses the small 4 stalker units from the battalion as objective grabbers and such, while using the battalion ability for flexibility and allows a unit of reapers to counter the most dangerous thing the opponent has. Stacking the vampire and knight +1 attack command abilities.
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I'd also really like some Rockguts just because I love the model but got no plans to collect the gitz. It is true though that they do not bring much, as the only thing Ironjawz got going is the Ironjawz keyword, so being in batallions like ironfist and bloodtoofs and getting benefit from Whaaag's which are also our only command point usage.
I have a hard time fitting any allies in due to that, even though there are several nice destruction aligned models I'd like to parade next to my IJ's. Still hoping for the same treatment beasts and Skaven got with some combined book soon.
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On 11/25/2018 at 9:01 PM, Malakree said:
So much more fun than bloodtoofs and the weirdnob with average 36/42" threat range on the foot just lets you delete key problems before they can do anything.
This sounds interesting, but unless I am missing something, you will still at best get +2 to cast, unless you play with terrain rules and can somehow be near arcane terrain for another +1 from turn 1.
With the vortex the shaman is unable to move and he still only casts foot on a 8+ with maximum bonus, so less than 50/50 for it to even work. With the shaman being unable to move, your entire army also needs to be fairly stationary to benefit this tactic, So you must have rolled glowing hot dice to get so many mortal wounds, as an average foot, if near your entire army will get +4 mortal wounds, so average 7 wounds per stomp, with less than 50/50 to cast it and then 50/50 chance for it to stomp again, the odds of doing those 50ish mortal wounds with it one turn are just incredibly low.
The opponent also really needs bad placement to get hit by the puke more than once and any good alpha strike list or with any sniping capability should be able to rather reliably shut down the shaman. Again unless I missed something here :s
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52 minutes ago, Sneedlewoods said:
Unfortunately your second list is missing a battleline :-S Morghasts are only battleline if Nagash is on the board.
Ah yes of course. Ugh it is so difficult making 1k lists and getting anything nice in them ?
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I am currently playing 1k lists with my gaming group and starting up with Death.
I do not own all the models yet, but want to make the list to dictate the shopping list, what I do have though is 10 black knights (Also a VLoZD and 3 vargheists, but they are not used in this example list).
I really like the deathrattle theme and came up with the list below. My main issue with it though is mobility, as aside from the king and knights the rest will lack far behind. The pros are that all is summonable with plenty of sources to bring back dead models and units, and the king and necro can really buff up anything that needs to be a hammer, as the king alone can grant aura and command trait to give +2 attacks.
Is this a nice baseline for a good but not cheesy 1k list? I'd like to expand into 1,5-2k later, adding the dragon perhaps and maybe some morgasts as I love those models.
Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar
- Artefact: Balefire Lantern
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
15 x Grave Guard (240)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
10 x Black Knights (240)
Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 85Edit: Also a second option for a 1k list
Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar
- Artefact: Balefire Lantern
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Black Knights (240)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit HalberdsTotal: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 82
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Only downside of the Ulgu combo is that the lord executioner has a measly 3 attacks, unlike the sword combo on Ironjawz running 2 x warchanter cross buffing for +2 to hit on 4 attacks, 4+ triggers an extra attack (and the 1d6 mortals) which just obliterates anything.
The reaon I compare these is due to the investment needed to make an inferior combo (although the executioner is a bit more sturdy). We need a battalion and also a 120 pt character and command point to even get 4+ to proc the sword, and then just for 3 attacks. While another army can do this with just 2x 80pts heroes using a free ability to, on average, get over twice the output.
There is a strong case though to be made that the execuitioner is tough enough to stand up to said monsters and heroes and possibly survive a counter attack while swinging the sword. If only his +2 dmg on 6's was affected by the battalion, then he would start to look like a major threat.
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2 minutes ago, Ashes said:
Does someone have experience with the Blade of Dark Summons artifact from the core book?
Once per battle, in your hero phase, you can set up a SUMMONABLE DEATH unit wholly within 12" of the bearer and more than 3" from any enemy models, and add it to your army. The models in the unit must have a combined Wounds characteristic of no more than a
2D6 roll.Even if it’s luck dependent I really want to give this a try. As the unit can charge directly after been summoned this could make up for a nice surprise for my opponent.
This would be an amazing artifact in the nighthaunt book, but as it requires death allegiance you are losing a lot to get this, which in the end on average is just 6 wounds worth of models, probably 6 bladegheists for max value, which is very unimpressive for the price of an artifact and losing allegiance abilities.
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Oh how I wish harrows were not heroes but an elite cavalry option (with adjusted stats and points). I just can't justify buying more of them just to make hexwraith conversions, as hexwraiths are already bad as it is. They have a niche use in hero objective capture scenarios and that is about it.
I also have great difficulty finding a place for the lord executioner, I love the models, but comparing the name to the 3 attacks 1 damage axe is just sad. Using his battalion and possibly -1 to be hit artifact to stack up to -3 to be hit by heroes might make him a trolling hero, locking up a bloodthirster or something which then hits on 6's, but I don't see any consistent use for him. Anyone got ideas for this guy?
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2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
This version of my death stalkers list is currently undefeated.
The Chainguard one has also performed really well, only losing in missions where it was impossible to win anyway. About 80% win rate.
Sounds interesting, why is it you do the CP farming without having any real command abilities to spend the points on?
It sounds like a lone hero and 8 stalkers are quite vulnerable to a counter attack, like stormcast coming down, what is their purpose on opposite ends of the board?
Grims are a given as good, but what is the role ofthe craven king? ou mention CP farm/denial but for what purpose and can he really bring home his points in offensive power? Enough so either a grimhailer or Olynder would not be better suited?
What is your most common target for the battalion rule, just finding the largest most elite unit on the board?
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Even more funny they ask the question who wins the duel, The celestant prime with Ghal Maraz or Undead lady? Geez who could it be GW, stay tuned for the duel between Liberator vs skeleton warrior, who can it be!?
The big things looks to be breaking out, perhaps this is the artists rendition of Slaneesh? Might be too big to just picture bomb out of nowhere though, but what big nasty do we know to be trapped that these characters might show up to fight over it?