Elazar The Glorified

Is that in the FAQ? It uses capitals to refer to the MONSTER keyword and the spell gives you the keyword so as long as the unit was in your starting army it's the same rules interaction as the Arcane Tome making you a WIZARD just shorter term Edit: Ignore me. Wouldn't work because you have to pick the Battle Tactic before you could cast the spell. I generally have been scoring it with Synessa whilst she lurks beyond my opponent's range sniping with Pavane but handy to know my backup isn't a valid plan.

Working in reverse order. I felt like I'd missed one when I said there were 2, sorry. We have easy access to fast units and/or ambushing so we have an easier time than some armies with Savage Spearhead. Ferocious Advance is a safety choice for Turn 1, especially if running units like Blissbarb Archers. Monstrous Takeover is the other very easy one to score whether using Monsters like Synessa or keeping a cheap Wizard that can use Metamorphosis. I don't think many armies will have the full choice of 8. Importantly Broken Ranks, Slay the Warlord and Bring it Down can not only be scored using our Summoned units but the bonus points are available on our summoned units such as Keepers. For the coalition units and Mortal Wounds, I'm enjoying using the Bullgors at the moment because of the combination with the -2 Rend. The one that stands out for me in Slaves are Varanguard with their Daemonforged Blades (I think). With their Relentless Killers rules they get to feel like a proper Hedonites unit too. Obviously the Chaos Sorcerer Lord ramps up their output with Daemonic Power and if you want to fight twice more often a Chaos Lord can do that. A Warshrine using Curse adds Mortal Wound output against a certain target rather than for specific units. I think somebody already mentioned this for Blissbarb Archers who if you also stack it with Acquiescence or All-Out Attack put out some ludicrous numbers against even 2+ saves but you obviously are reliant on the Warshrine getting the prayer off (only a 50% chance without any bonuses)

Plenty of Mortal Wound output in our coalition units though. Maybe not as much as some armies but we definitely have a few decent options. I get if people want to play a purist one book approach rather than using the extended army options but that's a choice you're making. However, if you're not going to use the options that are there I don't really understand the complaints. We can't have an answer to every question in a book as then the game becomes very flat and formulaic. As for the battle tactics, they're a huge part of winning games in 3.0 and working out the best approach to scoring the maximum each game is how you win. So yes, if we save the Starting Army ones until the end we might struggle but our opponent has the same struggle as we summon half an army more to wipe their starting units and deny them the points if we play clever. Besides, even that's not really true, there are 8 Battle Tactics and only 2 are restricted to our Starting Army as well so I really don't think it's a valid complaint. Especially when both of those can be scored very easily in the first turn or two if you really want to pick them. The Grand Strategies are based around Starting Army a lot more and for obvious reason, it's the army's purpose and not the purpose of those that have suddenly flocked to the battlefield at the last minute as they heard there was a good fight! However, they're 3VP over the course of a whole game and you plan them at list building stage so they're usually more of a tie-breaker and there are no surprises on them. You should know how you're going to score it and if you don't that suggests you've picked the wrong one. Personally, I stick nearly exclusively to Prized Sorcery because we've got some great units to lean into that with Glutos who is incredibly difficult to kill, Synessa who doesn't need to engage to be of use and access to cheap coalition Wizards, useful allied wizards or any non-Unique character from our book or our coalition books with the Tome.

Well I think looking at my Beasts to Chaos and my Slaanesh they end up with slightly different roles in each army because in the Beasts they need to be one of the big heavy hitters as they're in theory the elite which is where some of my concern came from with them because I'm not sure they necessarily are... I'll need some more games with them but ultimately what they've replaced in my list at the moment are the Hellstriders and they remain (as 2 units of 3) in the same ballpark points wise as the Hellstriders so can be my sacrificial lambs/bulls as they might just be the right mix of tough and scary enough to draw attention and be able to hold it for your other stuff to advance and if they die, they're cheaper than my Blissbarbs, Twinsouls and Characters so better it's them! The main reason I was looking at them (or another option) was around adding some additional punch against high saves. The Twinsouls can do the heavy lifting against other targets but the main option for removing good saves in my list otherwise was tying them up with Glutos and focusing them down with him and mortal wounds from spells and Synessa's shooting. For a damage output to points ratio the Bullgors (unsupported) outperform Slickblade Seekers, Fiends, Varanguard etc and in particular against 2+ and 3+ saves. They have decent move, high rend and damage, the chance for additional Mortal Wounds and native +1 to charge etc (of use if ambushed in with Lurid Haze potentially also) so they can be treated as a bit of a throwaway unit but equally will kill stuff. The main drawback is the 4+ to hit if it gets modified down. Slickblade Seekers, Varanguard all bring something else to the party as well but they become much higher value targets and you're only getting the one unit in without exceeding the cost of the two Bullgor units which means you can sit them on an extra objective, or distract a slightly higher proportion of your opponent’s army to deal with them. The only caveat is the 1 in 4 coalition for Beasts but it's not unworkable. Especially when technically your 4 could be: Slaanesh Slaves to Darkness unit Slaanesh Slaves to Darkness unit Allied Unit Beasts of Chaos unit There will be much tougher tests of them than Kruleboyz but for a first outing of some very hungry Bulls alongside a very hungry Glutos, I was quite pleased!

Picked up another win against Kruleboyz last night, tried out I think exactly the list I posted a page or two back: Lurid Haze Battle Regiment Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery Glutos Lord of Pain - General, Oil of Exultation, Feverish Anticipation Synessa 11 Blissbarb Archers 11 Blissbarb Archers 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 3 Bullgors w/ Great Axes 3 Bullgors w/ Great Axes The battleplan we rolled was Tooth and Nail. Inevitable, I don't often run Lurid Haze and in punishment for saying I love our Summoning we rolled the one battleplan that stops you ambushing and means Summoned units are spectators only on the turn they arrived. This wasn't great for me as the one concern I had about the Bullgors was their squishiness so I had hoped to ambush one or both units to get them up where they needed to be ASAP. But, their decent move of 7 and +1 Charge from the drummer means they're not slouches at least. Some conclusions rather than a full battle report: Kruleboyz weren't necessarily the test I'd have wanted for the Bullgors but it was useful to see the impact of some of the things the Kruleboyz can do to limit their effectiveness. Scare Taktikz from the Gutrippaz meant they spent most of their combats dropped down to a 5+ to hit which was not a great place to be. However Rend -2 and high damage meant that the attacks that found their mark were killing which felt nice. Their 5+ saves even with 4 wounds each mean they're not tanking damage for long but something I underestimated was at 155pts they're my best suited to being a throwaway unit in his list and as they're not Battleline they don't nominate themselves to be targeted for a Battle Tactic either. However, seeing as on average without modifiers they'd be doing about 9 wounds to the Kruleboyz units if they got hold of them and 4-6 to the Heroes (depending on whether they went for the 2+ saves) they couldn't be ignored. One unit died to a volley from Boltboyz but in doing so took the flak that allowed my Blissbarbs to push up and Synessa to begin sneaking round the edge of the board ready to retaliate. The other unit joined Glutos in gobbling up few units of Gutrippaz and essentially that pairing won me the game as they removed a big chunk of the numbers for my opponent on the one flank, drew a fair bit of attention and when my opponent conceded were positioned to remove his General, support heroes and remaining Boltboyz. I'm definitely going to give these some more playtime though and see how they perform against other armies. Using a Battle Regiment and usually controlling that first Priority choice remains something I'm very reluctant to relinquish. Some of the benefit to ceding the first turn to the shooty mortal wounds of the Kruleboyz was ceded by some sneaky play by my opponent who put Ghost Mist on a Dominion of Sigmar Shattered Temple to hide a big block of Boltboyz, and his support characters from view meaning I couldn't remove any of them in my turn to reduce the shooting that would come my way in his turn 2 My Symbaresh Twinsouls did really well, the Bullgors and Glutos being more aggressive in their movement bought them enough breathing space to kill what they needed to before they were removed and they more than paid for themselves. Unleash Hell from the Boltboyz neutered these and then his Murknob, Shaman and Killaboss finished them off. However they had deleted a squad of Gutrippaz before they ran into a hail of bolts and the brave few that survived that charge chopped up the Boltboyz with abandon before they were dropped in turn by the characters. Trading 370pts of a unit for 540pts worth of the enemy felt like a trade worth making for how the game played out but my opponent also rolled very well for that one particular volley. The combats/shooting in this game were probably more decisive than they have tended to be for most of my 3.0 games so far but still, when my opponent called the game at the halfway point of battle round 3 I was sitting on enough to bring on a Keeper or 30 Daemonettes etc for Round 4 plus some spare to carry forward for Round 5. I mentioned in a previous post about Glutos sticking near the Lord of Pain when the Twinsouls didn't need him. His output with the reroll is pretty decent and again provides us with a bit more thrust against heavily armoured targets. If it is his Finest Hour too it's even more impressive. I mean I take him for his general tankiness and the sheer range on Fog of Temptation for disrupting my opponents' plans but it's a useful tool to be able to spike his damage so much. As a side note I enjoyed the common theme between Kruleboyz and Hedonites with a large amount of Fogs, Miasmas, Mists and Palls impacting everything!

@Enoby @CeleFAZE I haven't tried 2 units of 10 Twinsouls to be fair but I think it'd make me twitchy, not least because you're then leaning heavily into the Lord of Pain to keep them both at maximum efficiency so I'd be tempted to spend that second hefty block on a unit that can do a similar but slightly different job. Whether that's maybe looking at Slickblades to add a faster element that can also help a bit more with better saves or at those points perhaps even going all in and paying the extra 25pts to include some Varanguard and a Sorcerer Lord as they'll churn out some damage, especially if you can line up Daemonic Power and their double-fighting ability and again bringing some additional mortal wounds and rend so they can pick on some targets you don't ideally want to send your Twinsouls into. @Nasrod I totally get some of the frustration, I suppose the issue for me is going to be that unified approach because I don't think we yet have a consensus on how stuff in the book works in the new edition. As an example, I think Glutos is worth every point of his 475pts from my experience so far and he's regularly kept one side of the board held up in 2000pt games either by his lonesome or with minimal support. With the introduction of Heroic Actions, changes to Command Abilities and the abilities on his warscroll he can tank and heal regularly so to me and my regular opponents the idea of him being made cheaper would be met with surprise. Now that's not to say either of our opinions are wrong, purely that it's so early in an edition and lists following different formats are showing at least some level of success. I appreciate not in overwhelming numbers but I still think some of that ties into my comments on that meta report about the PR hatchet job on Slaanesh's competitiveness being a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I totally appreciate the amazing work by @Enoby to create the survey and collate some of the community's feelings and it'll be interesting to repeat again in the future because I do think positions will change as this season of competitive play continues (and that may be for the better or the worse) and then next season if they're going to change the Realms and focus as it appears they may there could be a huge shift in the meta separate to any changes to points and warscrolls. I think we have to remember that whilst it feels like a long time to us. From the perspective of GW this is one of many very new products they have where the community isn't happy (and remember the community is usually unhappy about something and not always with any justification) so they'll need to see how these stats continue to emerge, how people's opinions shift (or not) before they make too big changes because outside of a few real anomalies (Slaangor and Shalaxi spring to mind where the intent doesn't seem to follow into the rules) a lot of stuff is in the ballpark and probably just needs tweaking on points to leverage strengths or make units more appealing. As well remembering that the Tournament scene that informs everyone's opinion of the competitive meta is still only a fraction of GWs customer base. There's no divine right to the most competitive army (there will always be a loser) and until there's a greater sample of games from a greater sample of players it's still difficult to reliably use those statistics to inform any changes because they wouldn't be able to measure the impact without a better before picture to compare the after to. As for the back and forth discussion about army theme. It doesn't sound like a popular opinion necessarily but I really like Slaanesh having summoning as a part of it's identity (and with a good two-decades of playing mono-Slaanesh, I really, really love that Slaanesh has a real play identity now beyond just rules for a Mark on some units that lock you out of taking other stuff! ) and I really love how the new Depravity System works compared to the old. For me it feels fluffy too. There was some narrative somewhere (possibly 40k maybe Old World fantasy) where they made a point of Slaanesh's Daemons taking the greatest interest in the affairs of their patron's mortal followers. I love the way it plays out on the table that they're watching from afar and when there's enough maimed stuff in a world of pain they decide this is too good of a party to miss! Again that seems an area where people are having mixed results but I'm regularly able to summon a couple of Keepers in a game (I don't always do so and instead pick what I will be most useful or that I want to get out of my case, but the points end up there to do so over the course). I would say that nobody has played to actively deny me depravity points but I can't think of a way they're doing that without either ceding ground/objectives or focusing all of their attentions on reacting to a semi-passive ability (maybe not the phrase I actually mean but I don't have to actively play for Depravity Points to earn them even though in theory I could lean into that harder - although again I think doing so would be ceding some advantage to my opponent) that my army has. Anyway, I know that hasn't moved the tactics conversation on anywhere but been drafting half of this post for a couple of days as the conversation rumbles on. I don't think my opinion counts more than anyone else's of course but I think we're not at the point of being informed enough yet to be unanimous in our opinion or dissatisfaction.

I think there's a place for Coalition stuff but trying to lean into it in lists tends to feel more like a fun theoryhammer exercise because by the time you have a General and three Battleline from the Hedonites book you're already in deep and have only have enough units for 1 Beasts of Chaos coalition unit so far. I haven't managed to write a decent looking list getting to 3 Beasts of Chaos units without having to pad out numbers with Slaves to Darkness Chaps Spawn. Having said that I've got a game on Wednesday and I'm not sure if I'm going to run my Beasts of Chaos or put some into a Hedonites list (my angry cows and goats have been being neglected) but I still think there may be some play in Bullgors to support Symbaresh Twinsouls. With Great axes 3 of them put more wounds into 2+ saves than 10 Twinsouls (on the turns they're not rerolling hits) and it's only when fighting against 6+ saves that the Twinsouls catch up on a points to damage ratio. Obviously it's not just as straightforward as that and the Twinsouls damage spikes significantly on turns they're getting the reroll (which to be fair is most turns with the Lord of Pain and he can instead buff Glutos on the in-between turns if he's near enough) but I want to try them and see how the Bullgors feel, particularly as something that I'm happier to throw at tanky enemies. They're also not that expensive (by our unit standards anyway so could have some merit as something to throw away without wasting a battleline unit for Battle Tactics etc) Currently tempted by a Battle Regiment of something like: Glutos Synessa Lord of Pain 11 Blissbarb Archers 11 Blissbarb Archers 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 3 Bullgors w/ Great Axes 3 Bullgors w/ Great Axes Leaves some points for Endless Spells or maybe some cheap coalition/allied cannon fodder. Could be interesting to run in Lurid Haze perhaps

@azdimy - thanks for sharing, what's the current battalion setup for your list? Just curious. I'm struggling to find enough value from the other battalions to justify going above 1 or 2 drop for the priority by running a Battle Regiment or two but might just be my lists and/or style. @Enoby will have a look and a think and come back to you 🙂

On the charge the Claw-spears are better mathematically. If charged or in an ongoing combat the Scourges are better (except in the fringe case against 2+ saves then Claws stay better)

I'm Claw-spears almost always at the moment. I have 2 units of each but haven't done much with the Scourges in a bit. For me it's been a list consideration as I tend to run Glutos and with them primarily being used to tip numbers on objectives etc they usually end up being attacked at -1 to hit anyway and as yet nobody has wanted to waste All Out Attack on overkilling Hellstriders so the Rend and D2 on the charge have proven more useful in my lists than a redundant modifier for my opponent. They don't tend to stick around too long and the extra wound or two caused on that charge can make a big difference on capturing a contested objective or forcing battleshock etc. If you're just comparing on the merit of the units in isolation though I can see why the Scourges win out as agree they're never going to be killy enough to be a hammer unit so if you haven't got it elsewhere you benefit more from them being a bit tougher to remove.

23 games isn't a great sample size to really prove anything and I think there's a huge chicken and egg element to all the initial furore about Slaanesh and BoC being dead for now for example. Means more good players aren't playing them, it may be justified, certainly in comparison to quite a few more obvious choices for if you want to be successful competitively but as a result you're more likely seeing a few die-hard Slaanesh players for whom winning is not at any cost playing the faction against others that have a host of stronger players running them. I don't think anyone is under the illusion we're in a great place but all this really tells us is that people picking which army to run competitively at least share that belief

Like the list Enoby. Although curious why you've picked the battalions you've gone for? Is the Warlord for the extra command point (and Vanguard having essentially a conditional extra one)? Until their book comes out with the rest of their range Kruleboyz are in an odd place and I have found in my games (currently my most commonly fought army also) that Be'lakor is a bit wasted until they get some 'proper' characters it's worth disrupting to the tune of that many points. In my last game I went for a similar list. LoP - General - Delusions of Infallibility, Rod of Misrule Glutos Synessa 11 Blissbarb Archers 11 Blissbarb Archers 5 Hellstriders w/ Claw-spears 5 Hellstriders w/ Claw-spears 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls Wheels of Excruciation Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery Everything in Battle Regiment for the one drop (which is one of the main reasons I dropped Be'lakor, reluctant to surrender control of the first priority) We ended up playing The Vice which is quite a tough one for us I think and I was glad I had the two units of Hellstriders to sit out the battle first few turns holding the home objectives but with the speed to push up and contest my opponent's as I cycled depleted Blissbarb units back up the board as the line of battle shifted and they became more useful out of the way but still alive. Mind, that's quite a tough battleplan for the Battle Tactics as there aren't many easy ones with the objectives starting so far back and not in neutral territory etc. I really enjoyed the list and it worked well thanks as ever to the impressive tankiness of Glutos. Look forward to hearing how you get on with yours and in particular the Blissbarb Seekers and the Masque which are the key differences between ours (still not used either in the new book yet)

Would have been the 18 in total. 2 units of 9 with them being Battleline for Big Yellers. 18 shots per unit if they're going for Hasty Shots with an effective range of 20". Ouch! Full list was roughly: Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof Killaboss w/ Stab-grot Swampcalla Shaman w/ Pot-grot Swampcalla Shaman w/ Pot-grot 10 Gutrippaz 10 Gutrippaz 10 Gutrippaz 9 Man-skewer Boltboyz 9 Man-skewer Boltboyz

Played a game last night against Kruleboyz.My opponent used the rules for Big Yellers from Warhammer Community. We figured there's probably more to them than just what we've seen but if you're not familiar it adds 3" to the range of all their shooting, the Man-skewer Boltboyz become Battleline and in the first battle round they get to reroll 1s to hit on their shooting. I resisted the lure of changing my list at the 11th hour to include a load of Bullgor and instead went with: Invaders Battle Regiment Shardspeaker - General, Master of Magic, Levitate Glutos Synessa 11 Blissbarb Archers 11 Blissbarb Archers 5 Hellstriders The Dread Pageant Be'lakor Wheels of Excruciation Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery The battleplan we rolled for was First Blood with the L-shaped corner deployment and one of the objectives is the Vantage Point to gain a bonus command point. I was glad to be just a 2 drop list to his 3 or 4 as the amount of mortal wounds the Kruleboyz put out from their shooting is scary without rerolling 1s and extra range. Deployed everything outside his maximum range and gave him the first turn so he never got to enjoy the rerolling 1s. A few games played in 3.0 and I think the 1 or 2 drop list remains king for Priority at the start. Was conscious that Be'lakor and Synessa as Monsters were giving up 1VP each if they got taken down and with no ward save they were both very vulnerable to the Man-skewer Boltboyz. Particularly once the two Shamans in my opponents' list bumped them to 5s for the mortal wounds. The plan was to have them skirt around on the edges of things to begin with until I could remove some of the threat of the Boltboyz. In the end the threat of the Boltboyz wasn't fully removed until the 4th battleround. They were out of range battle round 1 and in battleround two I took advantage of them being bubble wrapped with their Shamans by Hobgrotz by charging in the Hellstriders dragging everything into one horrific combat but by putting All Out Defence on them in both my combat phase and my opponent's following shooting phase I managed to tie them up so only one unit of the Boltboyz eventually managed to shoot Glutos for a couple of wounds. The Hellstriders did a good job and sold their lives well but my opponent got the double-turn going into battleround 3 so was to capitalise on them being free and boy did they make the most of it! Just as an introduction to that… Be'lakor. Kruleboyz, I felt, didn't have any standout target's for maximising The Dark Master so I sat on it waiting for a clutch turn where it would most disrupt my opponent and might be useful and then, frankly, I forgot about it! I remembered it after a Shaman had pushed a unit of the Boltboyz onto the 5+ to hit becoming 2 mortal wounds and they started rolling the hit dice on their Hasty Shots… 14 Mortal Wounds just removed Be'lakor. Be'lakor had been useful prior scoring a Battle Tactic and I definitely see his value against the god-level heroes but against the lesser stuff he felt a bit of a spare part and, purely to my poor play and mistake, he was worse for not having a high-value target because I waited too long for one to emerge. Between the Shardspeaker, Be'lakor, Synessa and Glutos I was able to throw about a fair few minuses to hit and wound but there's nowt like Mortal Wounds on unmodified hits to cancel a fair chunk of that out. Glutos was MVP for me again. I pushed him out to hold my left flank supported by just The Dread Pageant. My love for Glutos only continues to grow. He is such a brilliant tank and his rules are so fluffy. He beat up on the Killaboss on Gnashtoof, he was tied up by Hobgrotz and then a big block of Gutrippaz. My personal highlight was him taking those Gutrippaz down to 1 model on 1 wound after he had fought on a turn I put Gorge on Excess on him and then a Summoned Keeper let him fight again so he healed by 8 wounds when he'd been 3 off of dying followed by a Heroic Recovery so it looked like he'd barely broken a sweat by the end. He was then pretty key in getting rid of the Boltboyz through a combination of Wheels of Excruciation, Arcane Bolts and his entourage just plain clobbering them! I'm feeling the love for Synessa now also. I think a few people have said now, she doesn't do anything spectacularly. She looks all round underwhelming on paper but she does just enough of everything that she's definitely going to remain in the list. Being a monster that doesn't need to push up too close to contribute she was a great utility. She got stuck in when I needed the bonus VP for a Monster killing a battleline unit but otherwise skirted around clipping mortal wounds off where I could. The Shardspeaker I think has ran her course in my lists for the minute. She just hasn't really contributed a great deal. I risked her holding an objective on my right flank by herself at one point, hoping that the more imminent threat of other units might keep her safe but my opponent went for Slay the Warlord and the Boltboyz took her out. 2CP gained from her holding the objective broke even with the 2CP for my opponent. Going to try some little tweaks to this list and she'll be making way for sure. The Dread Pageant had probably their quietest games of the ones I've used them in. They didn't contribute a huge amount but yet again they stuck around and chucked their 4 extra bodies to tip objectives where needed. Threw themselves into combats alongside Glutos in particular but also my Blissbarbs to support and chip away. They always fly under the radar and do ok as they're just tough enough to require a concerted effort to remove but too small to not quite justify it! If I can make space for them I'll continue to build them into lists. Anyway, eventually, I managed to get hold of the Boltboyz properly and once I did the game tipped in my favour until there was nothing left of my opponent's army and I'd pulled clear on VP. It was very tight at one point but summoning helped me recover from the brutality of the third battleround.

Can Bullgor not fill that Bullgor role for us? They have -2 rend on their Great Axes and 3 damage plus the potential of a mortal wounds on their Bloodgreed rule. At 155pts for 3 with their command (which beyond the extra attack adds +1 charge and helps boost their bravery) they seem like they could have a place? I have a game tomorrow that I already had a list planned for but now I might have to see how Bullgor feel this edition...

Hypothetically, there'd be some synergy at least, if they had Brayherd. Shamans could boost their move by 3". A Beastlord could potentially give them +1 to wound and even +1 to hit and wound. So with a Lord of Pain too and putting a lot of eggs in one basket you could then be hitting on 3s with rerolls and 2s to wound which could be interesting on a unit of 6 I suppose... @Enoby that looks awesome! Hope you can work it out to make it fit again!

Ah Slaangor. They were the one thing I wanted out of a Hedonites release more than anything else as it combined my loves of Slaanesh and Beasts of Chaos... The unit I see them competing with in my lists is The Dread Pageant. They're a small model-count irritant unit. They have an extra wound than the Pageant but 1 less model for sneaking objectives. The Pageant can tank wounds through Vasillac and have shooting through Hadzu and if ignored can ping a few mortal wounds through in both melee and shooting over the course of a game. I want to unlock the secret of Slaangors but... The Dread Pageant provide my only Slaangor for now. Desperate for someone to suss them out though!

Nothing to add other than I'll never understand the psychology of people sticking around to moan about how rubbish something is and drag everyone else down with them rather than working to try new approaches or as would be useful with a few particularly vocal negative sorts (on FB in particular) just have a rest from the faction / game / social media platform! As far as YouTube videos I don't think I've seen a video yet with Slaanesh that wasn't either trying to run a cookie-cutter list but from our first book or just made some pretty big errors around how the allegiance abilities or warscroll abilities of key units. Neither of these are evidence for the sweeping faction-wide decisions that are then made after the inevitable loss. Personally I've been really enjoying the shared lists and experiences and wondering which bits to cherry pick based on what I want to use and how I want to play and considering how people's experiences have differed to mine and why that might be. Love seeing the rationale behind choices especially with lists like Mike's that felt a little outside of the pattern that we initially saw. In short, please keep sharing and experimenting and sharing again. Let's also keep asking the useful and insightful questions to generate great discussion (rather than 'meh that's ****** how can you possibly deal with x with that list). I'm still not getting as many games as I'd like at the minute as things slowly go back to a semblance of normalish here but enjoying living vicariously through everyone else! 😁

Technically a rules question but... If I put the Girdle of the Realm Racer on an Exalted Chariot Bladebringer does it become a sub-commander for Battalion purposes?

Thought it might just have been me being clumsy but reassuring to find that others have shared that pain also haha! I've built Dexcessa but still have Synessa to go (not used both together yet so just been proxying until the want to build it or use both struck)

Agreed @Jaskier and @azdimy for Battleline, Blissbarbs and Hellstriders add so much more for similar numbers of bodies or costs. I think the Beasts definitely offer some useful cheap numbers but I'm still finding it tricky to justify the coalition slots to get a couple of Beasts units in (although coalition Chaos Spawn at least help at the list-crafting stage with bulking up the numbers to allow for some!) without instead seeing more use in something they have that we don't such as their monsters. I know the Chimera has been discussed and I keep looking at Ghorgons (more because I have so many of them). Does anyone have any lists (even if just in theory) where they're getting use out of Gors or Bestigors? Sometimes I creep a Great Bray Shaman in to some theory lists just for the extra insurance on Prized Sorcery.

Daemonettes are still our cheapest Battleline (in competitive play anyway) for number of bodies but I certainly can't pretend to have given them much thought as something to pay points for rather than summon...

The Chaos Lord and Sorcerer Lord aren't able to be generals as they're coalition units so you'll need to have a bit of a re-jig to make it work. 😕

Sadly no, I think it's in the Lumineth FAQ but as no dice are rolled nothing can force them to be re-rolled

Great write-ups @Carnith and @KrispyXIV some more useful insight to keep adding to the collective! 😊 From my games so far Battle Tactics are pretty huge and I think with the way the battlelplans score largely leading to otherwise tight games (at least from my experience so far - plenty I've still not tried though) that's where we're going to win or lose so I think a little like list building in 40k around your secondaries there's probably some merit to at least having an eye on what you'd potentially be looking to use for certain battle tactics and working out whether that tends to mean you need to pick them early before attrition means you're relying on summoned units and/or whether certain units arw worth wrapping in cotton wool until the opportune moment. Wizards in particular I think are going to be incredibly important as they can get you the bonus VP for the Monster related Tactics with Metamorphosis without offering up the bonus points for killing monsters all game (but still risk and reward for doing so when they cast it as they're then a prime target) Contorted Epitome is the obvious choice but I struggle for points with the Epitome alongside others I really want in my list.