[AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion]

Is there any way to make Blades of Putrefaction more reliable to cast? 7+ to cast is pretty rough.

Sorry if this is a dumb question,  but I'm just thinking about starting a Nurgle force with my Beasts of Chaos models.

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Thanks, that’s really interesting.

didnt know that there were still people playing and using them on tournis.

 

Yeah and a  guy placed second in this year's Sigmonkey Tournament in NZ with Skryre. Same guy won the 2017 Masters Tournament.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😨😅😍

Edit: SKAVEN ARMYS FULLY WITH THE KEYWORD SKAVEN, or are we counting armies with like 1 or 2units of something skaveni 

Yep they were all (or almost all) Skaven. You can look up the Syndeny GT and Australian Masters lists, but here's two from  the upcoming NZ Masters: 

 

 

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well at least we got a beautiful battletome, which owns some great lore aspects and the allegiance ability seem to be alright.  (The only thing  now missing is a grand skaven battletome for my over 10 000points army of rat man.)

Edit: skaven showing up frequently on tournaments? Must have been the beginning of aos, because since aos 2.0dropped I haven’t seen any skaven army beeing used in any of the grand tournaments. (exception would be that 1guy who played skyre)

Sydney GT 2018 had three Skaven lists I believe, and Australian Masters had 2 as well. NZ Masters this year is 10% Skaven.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

17 hours ago, Myrdin said:

@Keith

I would have to question the  Vicious Strangle-thorns on the Bray Shaman. Tis true that its the only spell with any real range in the Lore, but still the effect is rather meek. Are you planning to have him as your Herdstone guard hero for the sacrificing ? I suppose yes, since you are running Darkwalkers, otherwise you would want him close to the units to buff their movement speed. With that many Bestigors and Ungors I would honestly go that route so you have some fast threats alongside the slower Bulls.

Also Paired weapons on the Bulls eh.....? Honestly I would either go Shields or Great weapons. Granted the optimal setup is the Brass Desp. Bulls with shields for regular enemies, great weapons for big meaty monster. Still if you plan on going single weapon, shield is a better pick.

Same with those 10 Gors. They will most likely be camping an objective. You want those shields even if they are for combat only in case some chaff tries to clear them off. Those re-roll 1 for paired weapons is the worst weapon bonus I have seen (I miss the old +1A  it used to give in WFB, or if it at least gave +1 to Hit like Tzaangors do)

Also - Why are you putting the Desolate shard on your General ? That`s a wasted slot for your DB. Put it on the Bray Shaman or one of the Shaggoths, drop the Lightning chained Bracers and give the Doombul a proper Relic (Cleaver for chop chop, Cloak for long distance Charges).  The artifact is not "General Bound", you have to bring it, but you can plop it on anyone else in the army.

 

Otherwise I agree with running the bulls in 6man units. 3 is to little and to few. Honestly I wouldn't even bother with a 3 man unit and would instead bring something entirely different for those points. You are lacking in cheap objective holders. I would go with Chariots or Razorgors (depending on the amount of objectives) for that purpose so that your combat units can move forward without concern. Alternatively 2 units of 5 Centigors are also great for this, as they can hold the objective in one turn and zip half the board in another if necessary.

From my own experience 6 bulls can actually last a little and bring enough pain (buffing the living shait out of them is required though, so keep DB close and use that CP wisely) to be scary. They will get focused and they will die, but not without re-precautions, and that time while they are soaking the pain can be used to your advantage elsewhere on the board.

Vicious Stranglethorns really depends on how much terrain you see on your tables, and how large it is. At local events here we have tons of terrain everywhere, so it's amazing. I regularly get 3 units or more with it. And it's especially devastating against Sylvaneth who like to stick their Wyldwoods on objectives.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

On 11/27/2018 at 2:28 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Thinking of putting together a Phantasmagoria of Fate army, mainly for conversion opportunities, but I want it to be reasonable competitive on the board too.  Would love to get people's thoughts on the list:

Gravespawn Great Fray

All in a Phantasmagoria of Fate battalion

Tzaangor Shaman: General-Unraveling Aura + Tendrils of Atrophy

Tzaangor Shaman: Vicous Stranglethorns

Great Bray Shaman: Wild Rampage

Beastlord: Mutating Gnarlblade

Beastlord: Vocanic Axe

30 Tzaangor: 12 Greatblades, 6 Mutants, 11 Dual Blades,  1 shield, 

10 Tzaangor: 2 Mutants, 4 Greatblades, 3 Dual blades, 1 shield

10 Ungor

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disk

5 Centigors

5 Centigors

 

1 drop, so should get choice of initiative turn one, which is always nice. Generally a fast army thanks to the banners (run and charge), Bray Shaman and plenty of naturally fast movement. So can alpha strike across the battlefield with most of the army if it's going to give the opponent a headache. 

Big blob of Tzaangors is cornerstone of the army, with plenty of Beastlords, Shamans and (after a few turns)  spawn to buff their damage output to awesome levels. 

10 Tzaangors will probably ambush most of the time for some backfield pressure.

Centigors, Enlightened and a Tz-shaman guard/attack the flanks.

Brayshamman and Ungor stay at the Herdstone for summoning fun.

One thought is if it's worth making the Tzaangor into two units of 20 and forget about ambushing: I should get some summons soon enough for backfield pressure.

You really need another Ungor screen for your Enlightened as well.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Ok, so I’m clutching at straws here...

ive just looked over the Warhammer legends beast men pdf.

there isn’t an entry for taurox the brass bull.

Could this be an error or could it be that hope against hope Khorne has seen fit to release him back to the mortal realms?

perhaps he was trapped in nagash’s realm and  released in the necroquake?

Pure wishlisting at best, but who knows!

I don't think he ever had a model, so that's why he's not in there.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:14 PM, Gdead909 said:

Sweetness. Do you know where we can get the lists?

Here's the Skryre player's list that he used to win the 2017 Masters tournament, and also an interview with him.

Here's another player's Skaven list competing in the Masters this year.

 

Here's the Pestilens list which will be at the Masters as well: 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

On 11/24/2018 at 4:40 AM, Skoll said:

They said it would be on the webstore come December when i messaged them

Yeah last time I messaged them it sounded like December is unlikely, though I would be happy if they get them ready in time.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

On 11/24/2018 at 9:56 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

To be actually truethfull with you, I haven’t seen anybody use any kind of skaven army in the new edition on any tournis.

must be those fish-things taking the spotlight 

There's one guy in NZ who runs Skryre and does quite well. He came second in two recent tournaments (Sigmonkey being one). The New Zealand Masters tournament this year will also feature a Clan Pestilens army. I think the Skryre guy might have qualified for Masters as well.

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Lernaean said:

I hear you, but right now Daemonettes aren’t the problem. The kit is fairly new and tbh it’s not bad and let’s admit it, GW won’t replace it any time soon. 

What Slaanesh now needs is some new units. Probably a new daemon unit, certainly a mortals unit, maybe a beastman unit, new heralds and/or heroes, and ofc a KoS. Daemonettes can wait.

Man I'd love some Slaangors for my Beasts of Chaos army...

[The Rumour Thread]

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

2 hours ago, Congratz said:

Did "Twisting Catacombs" stop the Minotaur Horde thing?
I wanted to buy some of the models, however i could not buy or pledge on the kickstarter...
Anybody knows what's going on or if i am looking the wrong place

Kickstarter ended a long time ago. They are still delivering the models to backers, and will stock them in the store sometime in the next couple months.

[The Rumour Thread]

11 hours ago, SlaaneshCultist said:

Man, I have zero interest in CCGs, but that makes me want to play an AoS CRPG so bad.

Man those giant World of Warcraft-esque pauldrons really put me off. Bleh.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

14 minutes ago, CarkFish said:

Hi guys! .... looking at the getting started box .... would ungors be ok to proxy for gors .... happy to swap the bases, i just dont need ungors for the list im making

thanks chaps, appreciate your help

cark

Ungors are much better than Gors at the moment though. What sort of list are you making?

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

7 hours ago, Lazaris said:

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I dropped an e-mail to the rules team, as you suggested.

In the meantime, I am tempted to play the rule as written and follow the interpretation you disagree with! (sorry! 😁)

The Stormfiends warscroll does say "that attack scores d6 hits", and the allegiance ability "Add 1 to the damage inflicted by 1 successful attack"...

I think your interpretation is probably correct by RAW. Probably not RAI since it makes that weapon option much stronger than the other melee options.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

16 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@The_Yellow_Sign

I really wouldn't recommend Gautfyre at 1500. It can be hard sometimes even at 2k to properly fit everything you want into it. That said, if you're set on it, you can try this:

Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team(70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team(70)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Clan Skryre (80)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)

Total: 1450 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 59
 

You really want to max out Stormfiends in a Gautfyre, and you really can't do that at 1500. I've recently been using different variations of the below for my 1500 point games:

Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- Allies
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 1440 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 104
 

This gives you more bodies, better at CC and ranged with the WLC's. Last 60 can be a CP or Endless Spells. 

Thanks! How would you recommend equipping the Stormfiends? Do you just put the warpfire projectors on all of them?

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

Hey guys, I currently play Beastmen, but I need to have a fully-painted 1500-point force (including summons) for an upcoming event, so I'm considering building a Skryre army since I love Skaven and it's a pretty low-model-count list. I already have some painted clanrats I can slot in if I need to fill out some points. Any suggestions for a reasonably good list at 1500? It looks like I can fit only one Gautfyre Skorch in at 1500, and wondering what other Enginecoven I should take (since I need 2 in the Battalion). 

[The Rumour Thread]

42 minutes ago, ageofpaddsmar said:

Greenskinz will be incorporated into iron jawz when their book is redone sometime in the next 3 months. The Seraphon one should also be in the next 3 months aswell. 

Is there any reason expect it will be in the next 3 months? Seems very close, considering that Moonclan is coming soon, as is Slaanesh vs. Khorne.

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

7 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Plus if you compare them to Enlightened who are 120 pts cheaper when in a unit of 6 (that price difference is LITERALLY an extra unit of Bestigors), those can deal more damage still, even without the rerolls. If you get those, they will not justf "finish off" big stuff like Nagash. They will "wipe stuff of the board period".

Just for imagination - 3 of these guys wiped a unit of 5 Demigryph Knights. WITHOUT re-rolls or Tzaan shaman. Yes I rolled really well, but still. Thats 20 Wounds 4+ reroll 1 Save, just "poof"... gone.
So yeah, I mean, its cool and all, but compared to Enlightened, for those 200 pts, I just dont feel them. They could be good with lower cost, but as they are now, they are overpriced and that fact can not be disputed.

That's your opinion, and I dispute it. 

I used to be a naysayer as well, who thought Skyfires were ******, until I learned how to use them correctly and did the maths on their melee output.  And it's not just theory-crafting: I won a tournament with them recently, and they were extremely effective in play. 

As I said before, Enlightened and Skyfires fulfill very different roles so it's doesn't matter that Enlightened have better melee output. If the Skyfires' melee output was even close to Enlightened, they would obviously be ridiculously OP.  

Shooting is still very important in AoS 2.0, especially when facing an army which relies on big centre-piece heroes like Alarielle, Durthu, or Nagash, or a skilled opponent who uses screens and chaff effectively.  Skyfires give you an incredibly fast flying unit that is able to both shoot and fight in melee, and they are quite good at both of these roles, as the maths shows.

They are basically the analog of renaissance-era dragoon troops. But unlike historical dragoons, who used shorter-ranged weapons like pistols, Skyfires have crazy-good range---they're like dragoons with sniper rifles. Ungor Raiders, who need to be in big blocks of 30+ to pose a serious threat, can be screened away from shooting down Nagash since they only have 18" range and a big footprint. Your opponent cannot safely hide Nagash from Skyfires, since they fly and have 24" range.

The two units also synergize well together because Enlightened like to go second, sitting behind a chaff screen, whereas Skyfires like to go first. Enlightened do not want to  waste time fighting chaff and then get countercharged---you want to get them fighting against the elite infantry ASAP. With their range and speed, Skyfires can fight on multiple fronts, removing chaff screens or wounding heroes halfway across the board, while charging down and wiping another unit and taking objectives.

Skyfires are not "the ultimate unit" that you need to spam like in AoS 1.0 Tzeentch lists. They are not a Raider-replacement. They are just a very useful tool in your toolbox, which you should strongly consider taking in a unit of 6 if you have a Tzaangor shaman in your list, which you should have anyway if you're taking Enlightened. 

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sounds interesting.

just one question, are you comparing a 400p unit (6skyfires) with a 120p unit (10Bestigors)?

No offense skydive definitely have potential, if rightly used, but still I’m not sure if you should compare 400p with like 120p.

The point was just to rebut the argument that Skyfires are an ineffective melee unit. The Bestigors just provide a convenient frame of reference for Beasts of Chaos players because they've been around for ages, were considered good, and now received a buff. The point value is irrelevant. Skyfires play a very different and unique role to Bestigors anyway. They're the  dragoons crossed with snipers (due to their range) whereas the Bestigors are heavy infantry (arguably crossed with heavy cavalry because of their charge bonus and speed). 

Also, if you like the 10 Bestigors are just the ones attacking; the unit might have 30 models, but you would very, very rarely be able to get 30 into melee unless you string them out and charge a unit that itself has been strung out.  The most I've personally gotten into melee on the initial charge since the book dropped is about 16 or 15, and often I get 10 or less. Depends on your local meta and what sort of armies you're facing, and what sort of terrain is on the board, etc.

 

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

22 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

My issue with Skyfires is that you NEED that 180 pts Shaman to tag along for them to do anything. 
But I like your comparison of them being light cavalry. In that context it does make sense to me. And I suppose they might be effective Warmachine/Ranged units hunters while also shooting at stuff.

But I will not buy into their melee factor against melee dedicated unit or heroes. Against archers, war machines etc, I can see them being very effective, just like what Harpies used to be back in the WFB. Against "real" combat units, them hitting and wounding on 5+ even with rerolls is nothing to write home about, and the discs, while better (4+/3+-1) are way unpredictable. In a unit of 6, where you get 6 D3 attacks, yeah maybe, but MSU 3 bird squads.... no. On average its not that impressive.

Damn.... such a shame that Dark Avenger is such a blunder. I wish we had some traits and artefacts that are actually dedicated to consistent buffing. While the Brayblast Trumpet is fun, being a one use only item is really not that impressive. 

(I tried it with a blob of 40 ungor archers, and as mentioned, its fun, but it lasts only one turn. Might be fun with a unit of 2x3 Skyfires and a Tzaan shaman, but thats 580 pts just for that.... ughh. Though it might be more feasible than 2 Cygors due to the unit footprint.). 

Skyfires should almost always be used in a big unit of 6, rather than split up into MSU's. They count on going first in combat, and with the way alternating activation works in AoS, you need to have them in one group if you're planning to make the most of them. 

Also, the Tzaangor Shaman is one of the best heroes in the book, so taking him is absolutely not a tax. 

Just do the math to see how effective Skyfires are in melee. With their rerolls, deal 2.534 wounds per model, before saves, and most of that damage (1.5) is at rend -1. 6 Skyfires are getting you 15.204 wounds before saves if they go first, and 9 of those wounds are at rend -1.  Against a 4+ save, that's 9.102 wounds dealt on average after saves. 

If you shoot first to soften up your target, you are easily wiping  many monsters and heroes off the board. You might not drop Alarielle at full health, but if she's already injured, you have a pretty good shot. In the Doom & Darkness battle reports they finished off Nagash, who still had a decent chunk of health left.

For comparison, 10 Bestigors are dealing 10 wounds before saves on the charge against a generic unit (not assuming order or 10+ models), or 6.67 if they did not charge. 

 

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

53 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

So here is some theory crafting and experimental list building for those who enjoy these sort of things like I do.

How to make Skyfires ACTUALLY work ?

After discussing them with Pandamina (I think) last time I let that thought of using Skyfires roll around for a while and giving it some time, and thinking "outside the horned box" I came to a conclusion that you can make Skyfires work, and to a great effect.... at least on paper, that is (need to test it out, but all my Tzaangors atm, ale unasembled, and while I dont mind proxy playing one unit, proxying hafl the army is a no go for me.)

But to achieve that effect, you would have to drop that which makes BoC .... well.... BoC .... and that is the Allegiance. 

This is a experimental CHAOS list that I put together, that emphasizes the use of Tzaangors, and works primarily against ORDER. 

Tzaangor Shaman - Dark Avenger 

*All units withing 10" get +1 to hit against ORDER. If you are not fighting Order, you can go with Lord Of War trait, though that one is much less reliable and much much less effective. But its usable against Death and Destruction soo... you know

2 Bray Shamans to give the army that necessary speed.

With magic you want either Wild Rampage, or Tendrils of Atrophy, since you will be sticking close to your units, the short range of those spell should not matter much.

For artefact I dont really care what it would be for this setup. If you so please, you can always take one Shaman as "BoC ally" and give him the Knowing Eye to get a chance at those extra CP. Alternatively since the Tzaan Shaman will attract a LOT of attention due to his buffs, giving him +1W might be also a good idea.

2x20 Ungor screeen who will die gloriously as martyrs, absorbing the charge from enemy units  

2x6 Dismounted Tzaangor Enlightened. The "Beef" (or feathers ?) of the army. You know, standing behind the Ungors, bashing enemies with their staffs with their 2"

2x3 Skyfires. These guys will stick to that 10" bubble Aura of yous Shaman like your finger stick to each other after your new unused super glue decides to explode and transform your hand from 5 fingers into a single glued claw (seriously, always be careful when first opening a new glue).

the last 80 points can be filled with 2 razorgors to hug objective.

Yes this is a 1500 list. For 2K you can throw in some regular infantry Tzaangors to pad out the front lines, or add whatever else your black heart pleases (two chimeras can be pretty scarey and will definitely take the heat of your Tzaan General)

The point is that as long as your Tzaan Shaman is alive, your surrounding Enlightened and Skyfires all hit on 2+  Which is pure insanity. even more so if you get to benefit from your Enlightened re-rolls, which will happen at least once/twice, as the ungors will go first if you charged, or the enemy will if they charged.  And with your Skyfires shooting at 2+ as long as they remain withing the range of their Shaman, you should get plenty of leeway from them, might even try and snipe characters off the board since even with the whole -1 to hit from Look out sir, that would only negate the first +1 to hit buff, dropping them to 3+ and 2+ for the unit leader, instead of 2+ for the whole unit.

 

I mean all of this is pure theory crafting, in how to get the most out of your Tzaangors, especially Skyfires who normally struggle much more to pay for their upkeep (200+ pts per unit).

Skyfires are already good---you don't need any special shenanigans to make them work.  I recently won a tournament with Beasts of Chaos using mostly Enlightened, Tzaangor Shaman, Skyfires, Ungor screens, and a Shaggoth.

Skyfires' ranged damage is lower on average compared to a block of 30+ Raiders, but their ranged output is very spikey, and has incredible 24" range. The great thing about Skyfires is their amazing speed and good melee output when activating first. Their profile doesn't look that scary until you activate them before the enemy and they reroll everything. A unit of 6 Skyfires charging will wreck many dedicated melee units and heroes. They are excellent at taking objectives that your opponent has not fully committed to.

Essentially, just think of them as a ranged cavalry unit, like Dragoons, and use them appropriately. Ranged cavalry lacks the fire-power of rank-and-file infantry, but has great maneuverability and if needed, can easily charge down undefended units and wipe them out, because you're still riding a massive powerful animal at speed.

 

 

 

[AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion]

34 minutes ago, Lardidar said:

Hey guys, I recently picked up a sale on twitter of a Tzeentch army and wanted to use them in my BoC.

I have yet to play but how does this look?

Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- General
- Trait: Shadowpelt 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Wild Rampage
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide

Battleline
30 x Tzaangors (480)
30 x Tzaangors (480)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Wounds: 200
 

Ten drops but I'm not caring if I go first or second so it's no big deal. Shaman is -2 to hit from items, -3 with look out sir. Two big blocks of Tzaangor one for holding my backfield and one for pushing. Two units of bestigor to ambush maybe..missiles basically. 10 ungor for the alter and 10 to run with the enlightened to do a double charge (DoomandDarkness tm) and the two shamans to dish out +3 to move to the big blocks.

What I bought had 90 tzaangor but I thought that a tad overkill...thoughts on my theory? I'm not very experienced on the table so it may suck!

I think you really need some shooting: either Raiders or Skyfires. It will allow you to remove screens or target key units behind the screens. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:18 AM, Satyrical Sophist said:

 

Number of attacks	New 10 man	#wounds vs 4+	#wounds vs 5+	#wounds vs 6+
Paired Blade	17	3.777777778	5.037037037	6.296296296
Regular Blade	3	0.5	0.6666666667	0.8333333333
Beak	20	2.9	3.333333333	4.166666667
Glaive	6	2.666666667	3.333333333	4
Boss Glaive	2	1.185185185	1.481481481	1.777777778
Total		11.02962963	13.85185185	17.07407407

 

That's what I get from the 10 man, which is pretty brutal. While they don't delete a unit of Evocators, generally expecting to kill 4 of 5 is pretty brutal (Assuming one mortal from wizard bonus). My Tzaangor use has mostly been to smash into a unit I want hurt, and be surprisingly difficult to finish off while doing chip damage.

Enlightened

 

# of attacks	Enlightened 3d	#wounds vs 4+	#wounds vs 5+	#wounds vs 6+
Spear	10	5.925925867	7.407407333	8.8888888
Spear Rerolls	0	0	0	0
Beak	3	0.33333	0.44444	0.5555499777
Beak Rerolls	0	0	0	0
Disk	6	2.66666664	3.3333333	3.99999996
Disk Rerolls		0	0	0
Total		8.925922507	11.18518063	13.44443874

 

# of attacks	Enlightened 3dr	#wounds vs 4+	#wounds vs 5+	#wounds vs 6+
Spear		0	0	0
Spear Rerolls	10	10.53497943	13.16872428	15.80246914
Beak		0	0	0
Beak Rerolls	3	0.7407407417	0.9876543223	1.234567853
Disk		0	0	0
Disk Rerolls	6	5.333333334	6.666666668	8.000000001
Total		16.6090535	20.82304527	25.03703699

 

Enlightened get nuts with their rerolls.  

 

 

 

Yeah Enlightened with rerolls are amazing now! I ran a unit of 6 in Beasts of Chaos recently and won a local tournament. I hid them behind an Ungor screen and after my opponent deleted the Ungors I would just pile-in and annihilate whatever was hiding there. I easily deleted an entire unit of Witch Elves with just the spear attacks, and deleted two (lightly wounded) Treelords in one phase, even with -1 to hit from one of their stomps going off. 

Skyfires are still actually pretty good, even after the nerf. Their shooting is kind of inconsistent, but they're surprisingly good in melee for a ranged unit, as long as they strike first.