Mark Williams

I think it’s an oversight that they haven’t. Probably flying under their radar due to having less feedback or representation or something.

My opinion is that bravery bombs only really work on turn 1 or turn 2 when your opponent doesn't have command points. Someone can get caught out flat-footed by it, but most people aren't going to get fooled by it, and it seems like a really risky thing to do. I admit I'd be curious to see someone get a multiple charge off with a large unit and cause several units to run away in a single turn, but realistically that probably isn't going to happen, and the energy you would expend trying to make that work would probably be better invested in just trying to dish out more damage. My current army can do a bravery bomb of sorts with the Celestant-Prime and a scions strike from the heavens with a large group of shooting units. However, I have to pull it off on turn 1 basically or my opponent just uses a command point to ignore bravery tests. It can be really devastating against an opponent who doesn't expect it, but I wouldn't say it's all "that" strong.

Hammers of Sigmar because that's what I painted. Nothing to do really with choice. As for my experiences playing with the new rules, they are fine. I haven't gotten a unit of redeemers back on the table yet after playing for several weeks. However the +1 to bravery is extremely powerful, and essentially makes my army fearless unless someone pulls off some kind of "bravery bomb" thing. Being "fearless" frees up the command points for other things, which is nice. I usually have a surplus of command points at the end of my games, as there's nothing particularly useful to spend them on. The commander artifact and ability are fine. In some ways worse than staunch defender, but in some ways better. The artifact weapon is about the same as the previous offensive artifact that I was using, so in the end not much changed about my army except that it got quite a bit tougher and more stubborn than before.

If the box has liberators with grandhammers or grandblades on the cover, then they will be multi-part models and not the easy to build ones.

I've been running evocators for a couple weeks now, and they pretty much shred everything they touch. Honest opinion, I see them being one of those units that you just spam in your list and it just completely overpowers anything your enemy throws at you. I feel that they are a bit too points efficient, and that we're going to start seeing "clone" armies pop up soon that are just full of evocator spam. The fact that people aren't talking about this more, imo is because the good players know how potentially "broken" it is, and they are keeping quiet about it hoping they can use it to win with for a longer period of time before it gets hit with some kind of nerf bat. I might be wrong, but that's what I think.

The multi-part Liberator set is the only one that has all the weapon options. The easy to build liberator box only has hammer and sheilds, and the prime has a hammer and shield. You can equip your prime with a grandhammer or grandsword, so it's worth it to get the box instead of the easy to build models, unless you just need a couple extra liberators to fill out a squad or something.

I've been taking Speed of Lightning in case I anticipate a tricky charge coming up. I think Celestial Blades might be a little bit redundant. My guess is that celestial blades is meant to be a stacking buff with empower, somehow. Like you cast empower and celestial blades on the same unit? I don't know. The invigoration spells in general seem a little lackluster to me when put into the context of evocators. I think they are more useful on something like a "battle mage" that might be running with a fast, hardhitting group of assault units - example gryph riders, or dracolines.

There's one "IDK guy" in my gaming group. He runs 30 thralls, tidecaster, magic king, volturnos, 2x6 assault eels, soulscryer? (priest that comes in reserve), and a few endless spells from malign sorcery (the one that gives +2 inch movement). I find him to be one of the most tricky opponents to play against in our group, and every battle boils down to how good of an assault the eels get when they come out. It's a bit of a "YOLO" strategy, but the main issue is there are no soft targets - everything is pretty much a power unit that can hold its own against most everything in the game. It makes it difficult to find a good of attack into the army, as you're stuck between a rock and a hard place most of the time. It's not unbeatable, but it's definitely one of the more naturally competitive armies in our group (at least it seems to me).

I'm in process of putting 5 together. The grandstaves (weapons) are not a singular model in the sense that the staves all have different looks to them. The top of the staves can be anything from a spell effect to a sort of mace-looking thing. The evocators themselves essentially come with two different sets of arms, while the bodies retain their overall poses. The poses are cool-looking, but they are not quite as pose-able as you would imagine (making me wonder how much variety you might get if you had a massive army of them). They look cool though, and the models are very big and imposing.

I feel like I already know the answer to this, but if you roll a "we cannot fail" damage save for the Celestant-Prime, can you change it to a 6 using the Orrery of Celestial Fates? I'm sure his warscroll only applies to normal armor saves, but I had to ask.

This is what I run. lord celestant on dracoth w hammers of sigmar trait (6 damage save) 2x5 crossbow juds w shockbolt crossbow 2x5 vanguard raptors w thunderstrike crossbows celestant prime the rest is on the board, wont list them.. all of the above drops from the sky together in a tight circle. Troops surrounding the heros to keep them from getting wiped out in the hitback (dracoth and prime have 2” range so they can hit over stuff if I get charged). I basically obliterate whatever I choose to focus down. If my opponent gives me long enough to charge the prime up too, I just charge him in and obliterate something else in addition. The enemy is then forced to make some hard choices as no matter what they attack, it’s going to happen a second time if they don’t kill enough stuff back. I almost always go 2nd turn and hope for a double turn. It’s not overpowered to the point of being unfun for pro to play against, but I’ve definitely won some games on turn one because people underestimated how much damage I could do in a single drop.

I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?

Redeployments do not count as moving for special abilities, they just prevent you from making a “normal move” in the movement phase.

The main issue with liberators is a lack of damage output, compared to many other army's battle lines. You can't avoid getting into assault in AoS, due to missions that require you to move forward and sit on objectives, which are often in the middle of the board or in enemy deployment zones. Liberators have decent defense, but when they attack back, they hit like a wet noodle. They don't give as good as they take, and so an army built around them basically only has middling defense and not much else. You can't win games if you can't make your opponent roll saves. It's basic, and barely should need explaining. Liberators have a few basic jobs: 1. They can camp an objective and defend it as long as they aren't the focus of attention. 2. They can escort more valuable units and stop an enemy from surrounding you and getting a 100% charge. 3. They can act as sacrificial pawns, standing 6-8 inches in front of your main army, and acting as the first line of defense, which will allow you to retaliate without losing your best forces earlyon. 4. They can act as sacrificial pawns, to tie up or occupy enemy units for a round or two, with the goal of dividing your enemy or distracting them from the mission. That's basically it... in each case, the real "work" of your army isn't being done by liberators. At no point is any of their worth involved in killing the enemy or capturing an objective that's being held by opposing forces. They are essentially a harassment unit. They work fine for that goal, but you can't win games with them, and if you keep adding more and more to your army at some point you've lost so much killing power that you're nothing more than an inanimate punching bag for your opponent to punch through on the way to winning. An annoyance at best, but never a threat. Combined with some of your other "good units" however, liberators in small quantities can be quite useful, and almost every army needs some cheap unit/s out front keeping the "murder force" from ramming straight into the heart of you on the first turn. That's Lib's job, and they are fine at it. But you need something behind them that will actually kill whatever hits the liberators - ie. not more liberators.

That's exactly what I'm saying. But I'm also saying that you can use everyone's knowledge of that against them by setting up "traps", and also to take the initial, inevitable charges that are going to hit you no matter what you do. If you didn't have to take Battleline at all, then sure. But if you have to take them anyway, and you want to get some extra points for something else in your list (ie sequitors or judicators cost more), then you CAN give them a purpose other than pure dead weight. I'm offering people a use for them other than just sitting off to the side somewhere doing nothing and hoping not to draw attention.

Liberators make decent “bait” and also “shells” as well. Everyone knows they suck and thus no one is afraid of them. The goal is to put something in range of them to punish anyone who decides to kill them for easy points. They are basically a “combo” unit imo. I agree they are weak and overpriced for what they do, but I also feel that they serve a purpose in allowing you to protect more important units and to prevent direct charges. We could certainly talk about whether sequitors do it better, but I’m not arguing that libs are better at anything, just simply that they do have a good battlefield role other than sitting on an objective.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

I do feel it's pretty solid case, but the FAQ doesn't list them specifically, which I would feel better if it did. I've tried dropping and using rapid fire one game so far, and it pretty much blows at least one unit completely away in a single turn, which I admit is pretty fun. You have to pick a good target though because they are really bad at taking damage, and if your target has a 3+ save or better they can't seem to convert enough wounds. Their best use seems to be picking a really big unit of little guys with bad saves.

Thralls in large quantities are very difficult to deal with, but their movement is a bit meh, so you have to sort of plan out where you are going and what you're going to do ahead of time. I've been playing against a single block of 30 for a while, and I have to devote about half my army to dealing with them in order to keep them from over-running me. I can't imagine having to deal with 80 of them. It would largely depend on your deployment I think.

Been messing around with 2 units of crossbow juds and 2 units of hurricane crossbow raptors. it's a very effective "horde killer" to drop on someone, but only if they are allowed to "rapid fire" as soon as they land, which I still feel is kind of up int he air... RAW-wise, they definitely can do it, but I could see an FAQ putting a stop to it... You are spot on with your assessment that they are good, but not world breaking. They are fun to drop on people, but that's about the extint of their power. it's nothing like dropping evocators with Gavriel first turn and getting a 6"+ to charge...

My gut reaction is that the ability only counts for "normal moves". I agree the rules feel like they are all over the place right now though. With command abilities being poorly worded and people trying to pull off weird stuff... we are in need of a more updated FAQ pretty bad...

Yes I've run it for a few games. It's not bad, but it's not as good as Staunch was.

Honestly I just enjoy them because they are different. I’m still waiting on an official faq that says it’s ok to drop them from the heavens and rapid fire. As it stands, dropping 10 juds and 3 raptors on most units takes the wind out of them. It’s pretty strong, but not overpowered.

Can you roll for rituals again with a different hero if you fail it? Saw someone doing that this weekend and not sure if it was a special ability or what.

Re: Retributors. Been using a unit of 5 for a year because that’s what came in the starter box . They earn their points back for me maybe 1 game in 20. Imo they have been dead weight for ages. I’ve gotten better and better at using them, and I can fairly reliably get clean charges off with them these days with new Scions rule. Doesn’t change the base problem with the unit. For an elite assault unit that costs 220 points, they pale in comparison to every other army’s similar options at similar point costs. This isn’t a “combo” or a “play better” issue. They really suck at their job. Giving them a 3+ save or a higher chance to inflict mortal wounds, or increasing their rend on charges, would be a “good start.”