SleeperAgent
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Posts posted by SleeperAgent
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2 minutes ago, Enoby said:
Yeah, no trait and realm artifacts only.
This is another reason I wish they would just go all digital on the battletomes. Coulda just added the host in and then updated it right after.
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3 minutes ago, Nogginnocker said:
I know. I posted a few back that I made a list and beat my friend’s duplicitous. It was a wonky and sometimes janky list, but I barely pulled it off nonetheless, albeit with help from a crucial double turn.
I would like to say that I can personally testify to the overwhelming and brutally shocking power of a darkfire daemonrift. After my opponent conceded, i asked him to talk out how he would’ve used the endless spell if he got to go first on turn two instead of me. He teleported two wizard units, cast an endless spell, then cast darkfire daemonrift in a way that clipped six of my units, one of which was a wizard. He ended up dealing about 50 mortal wounds. Killed two characters, and four other units. He melted 830 points in my army for one cast of a 50 pts endless spell. And at the end? He plucked it away with his LoC. And you know what? It was easy.
So, when I try to explain these things on the forums from my direct personal experience, and then everyone tries to theorycraft their way out of it using hypotheticals without having faced it themselves, I just roll my eyes and say, “cool story, bro. You do you.”
It can be rough to have to listen to people tell you how you can do things differently, but from our perspective that is the "magical christmasland" of scenarios for the darkfire daemonrift. It wont happen nearly that often and can be mitigated by better unit placement. Sometimes it will do 50 wounds, sometimes it will do 5. Thats the natures of the game.
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14 minutes ago, Nogginnocker said:
Oh I know. There are multiple threads all over the place railing against the book in its current form. It also took 1st, 2nd AND 3rd at the GT heat #1 IIRC. I’m just reading those threads while eating popcorn, cackling maniacally and occasionally muttering “I told you so” with a thousand yard stare on my face.
You were right to rage at Tzeentch. But our army actually can avoid the Host Duplicitous BS. I really think Changehost is the problem with the book. If you're going to give an army 1 drop potential it shouldn't come with huge powers like double teleport every turn. I mean Dreadblade Harrow costs a command point per unit. Make Tzeentch pay the same cost.
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So with a Syll'eskan host do you just not get a command trait or Slaanesh artefact?
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6 minutes ago, Dejnar said:
Hiya!
I have two questions before my first tournament next month:
Eurlbad battalion: Does the 6s to hit count on ALL attacks from the units. So both gargant hackers AND tusks?
Metalcruncher: Do I use this at both mine and my opponents combat phases? (It only says "at the start of the combat phase")
Thanks y'all!
Yes to both questions.
EDIT: To clarify, all melee weapons. If you have missile weapons they do not do mortal wounds.
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The warscroll builder is down 🤨
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7 minutes ago, jhamslam said:
Yeah that was me. Slaanesh got me tho, sorry guys couldnt the SCE dream there
Slaanesh is a 2.0 battletome. You did amazing especially considering the 1.5 battletome.
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6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
And so it begins
This better be all the metal/resin/finecast kits turning into plastic. They don't need new units.
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Tier Broken:
Petrifex Elite. Not Bonereapers. Specifically Petrifex Elite. The whole book is great without this legion.
Changehost combined with Hosts Duplicitous. Giving an army the ability to one drop, and have two free teleports a turn and enemy cannot retreat with no counterplay, COMBINED with a battleline unit that is roughly 50 wounds for 200 points was a mistake. I know The Eternal Conflagration is strong (once again, becoming OP with Changehost) but this game needs shooting to exist.
Tier 1: (Great armys that can be balanced with points increases)
Slaanesh: Summoning tweaks are really needed. Either make regular units generate depravity and raise all the summong costs, or rework the system. Because as it is you are REALLY FORCED into maxing out on heros and taking next to no smaller units. Otherwise you're playing the army without its allegiance ability.
FEC: I dont wanna rework the book, but getting all the units for basically free if near throne is very powerful.
DOK/Orruks/Fyreslayers/LoN: Small points changes
Skaven: A few points tweaks. And by this I mean Stormfiends should be going down while warp lightning cannons should go up. I could see both of them at 200 points. (maybe 220 for Stormfiends)
Tzeentch/STD: Gaunt Summoner should not be summoning 10 pinks for his cost. I assume this will be FAQ'd shortly.
Tier 2: (Good armys that can be helped by some points drops)
Stormcast/Idoneth/BoC/Khorne/Ogors/Gloomspite/CoS: could all see small drops army wide.
Tier 3: (Need help badly)
Nighthaunt/Sylvaneth/Nurgle: The game has passed these armies by. Nighthaunt book got released as 2.0 but has none of the toys of other armies, flying and ethereal were way overpriced. Sylvaneth actually got worse with their 2.0 book IMO. Nurgle needs either large points drops or new ways to fight.
Unspecified: Seraphon (book on the way)
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11 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
How did you manage all the durthus/treelords with the drakes? Was the peppering of MW's enough?
At the end of the game the durthus were still alive. One took out my templar after a few turns of combat, but he was too slow to make it to the other until the bottom of 5.
6 minutes ago, Maturin said:ISn't he too far away, even on a vortex, to help from the deployment zone ?
I don't know what you mean here. He cast balewind and comet turn 1, turn 2 he cast halo because my stardrake wasn't far enough away yet, turn 3+ he was just trying endless spells.
5 minutes ago, Maturin said:Are you sure you can target the same unit several times with the dragon falling stars ?
I didn't target it more than once per stardrake. My turn 1 hit the wraith with both drakes, then on double turn each one targeted it first and the cometstrike sceptre as well. Each drake was only targeting it once, but I got my turn 1, then went first turn 2 and did it again. So the wraith was targeted a total of 4 times.
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So I took this to major victory today, and it was rough. Played Total Commitment which really screwed with my drop plan. Ended up 6 to 4 for the Starcast. Played against Sylvaneth with 2 Durthus, Treelord Ancient, Branchwraith, 6x Kurnoth Scythes, and 50 Dryads with Forest Folk battalion, Heartwood grove. He cast throne of vines turn one and I double turned turn 2 to shoot the branchwraith with rain of stars 4 times and the cometstrike sceptre before it could start pumping out more dryads. Vesperal Gem on Treelord Ancient is very annoying to my play of giving him -3 to cast with comet and both drakes.
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Storm Lance
Celestant-Prime (340)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Balewind Vortex (40)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 81Incantor on a Vortex is very nice. Also starting off between 2 drakes for +2 to cast feels so good.
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Beware the one with Metalcruncher. They all do decent MW's on the charge, but that one just gets to hit most of our army for D6 MW at start of combat.
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2 hours ago, Nogginnocker said:
OK sorry. Apparently, either I’m not being clear or people simply aren’t reading what I’m saying. My comment about DG is specifically in reference to playing against Tzeentch Hosts Duplicitous builds. Yes, I understand fully how DG works. My entire army is built on getting a good charge attack with two units of 10 hexwraiths and retreating them and charging again later somewhere else. I have Pendant of the Fell Wind, Vampire Lord with wings, yada, yada, yada, the whole shebang. I often get 8 attacks with each hexwraith (4 for rider and 4 for horse) rerolling hits of one, wounding on twos. I know how to play my army. Tzeentch comes in and absolutely obliterates your game plan. Vampire Lord? Gone T1, maybe T2 if they’re feeling generous. Trying to chew through 20 pink horrors with a 6+ FNP and you only hitting on 6s is no fun, man. Your nice hammer unit of hexwraiths is turned into a fluffy pillow. My opponents almost always roll at least one 1 for their fate dice, so that’s extremely bad if you can’t kill off the Pink’s banner in one round.
So to summarize TLDR:
Tzeentch Changehost Hosts Duplicitous is a one drop. They turn your army into pillows by hitting only on 5s and 6s. They pin you in your deployment zone. They literally negate your ability to retreat for the entire game (hosts duplicitous ability). Pinks split on the objective. They have more bodies on the objectives. They win.
I know it sounds rough, because we really havent had an army with this much durability show up. Thats the real problem is the pinks. I can easily foresee them getting nerfed back to the blue/brim fate points version. You cant give an army a 200 point battleline thats 50 wounds and can teleport. Either they'll get nerfed, or as more battletomes come out the damage values will have to get much higher. I could easily see them changing Spirit Hosts to 2 mortal wounds per 6 since Fyreslayers have that AND get to continue the attack. Then Mourngul could go to 3-4 MW per 6 *drool*
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11 minutes ago, Nogginnocker said:
The last time I played, it was against against a unit of 20 pinks in the center of the board where the objective was certainly going to fall (starstrike on turn two). However, I think you severely underestimate the ability for the opponent to properly screen using a simple 60 pts screen of 10 brimstone horrors and other Tzeentch Horror Heroes. It was great for him, very bad for me. I looked at the initial deployment and knew I had already lost. There was no way I could drop my 5 man of bladegheist revenants (which I had held back to potentially deep strike against his LoC) and my 10 man of grimghast reapers anywhere effectively. Again, I urge you to seek out a Hosts Duplicitous opponent and play them. Then post your results here as an abbreviated bat rep. It will blow your mind how insane this army ability truly is once you actually play it against a competent general.
" Also, you can use a Dreadblade Harrow to teleport any unit out of combat with his Host Duplicitous unit. It's not considered a retreat."
This is actually really cool. I hadn't considered that since I had been so focuses on the Dolorous Guard. It just sucks that DG is no longer a viable option. RIP the, what, 1 month it actually lived?? Oh well. NH VERY briefly had something to enjoy before Tzeentch ripped it from our bosom. Lady Olynder is once again offically dead as a general for NH... Sad. I guess back to the same old cookie cutter Dreadblade Harrows as the general. Booh.
Changehost always goes first against NH if they want to. They can very easily move their hero within 12" of the horrors unit and screen us out on our turn for "deepstrike". I laugh at the term "deep strike" and intentionally put it in quotes because my opponents are actually competent and no how to properly screen for it, so I always end up losing a turn of action for those units.
Once again, I ask that you play against a Hosts Duplicitous army that is helmed by a competent general and tell me how it goes. I'm genuinely curious. I really do want to have hope against my local meta instead of hanging up my AoS armies (NH, IJ, Skaven, and Destruction) to play video games or guitar instead.I know it aint much help, but I probably wont get to play against Tzeentch anytime soon. No one around here plays it. But I've dealth with other -1 and -2's to hit.
As is tradition, wait for the FAQ. It'll undoubtedly change some things for Tzeentch. I could easily see Changehost going up a lot of points or change how you move things.
As for Olynder, I don't think IOve ever used her as my general. It just nerfs NH too much to not have access to Ruler of the Spirit Hosts.
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1 hour ago, Nogginnocker said:
No. They can't. Literally, you are NOT allowed to retreat. Period. Full stop. They removed that ability of yours when you fight against Hosts Duplicitous. If you haven't played against it yet. Please, go ahead and try. I would love to read a successful battle report. I'll wait. Trust me. I want some hope...
Ok then the bladegheist rev trick wont work. But there is no way he is paying 200 per unit of pinks and has enough to screen you from everything. You said he even has a 20 man unit, thats 400 points. Yeah its a tarpit you can get locked in combat with, screen your things properly with min sized Chainrasp units.
Also, make sure that this tarpit is WHOLLY WITHIN 12" of the hero. Otherwise that -1 falls off. If it's that big of a problem, bring a Knight of Shrouds on foot and use the command ability to give +1 to hit. Its a numbers game. If hes using a 120 point hero (changeling), 60 for geminids, with 200 of pinks, just to give -3 to a single unit, thats a huge investment. And geminids and arcane suggestion both have to go off. 20% of his army to give one single unit -3 to hit. While everything else is -1 IF the hero is wholly within 12". In some cases it will go off for him, but thats a lot of points and multiple ifs.
There are always huge gaps in lists like this when one devotes so much of their army to a hard combo like that.
EDIT: Also, you can use a Dreadblade Harrow to teleport any unit out of combat with his Host Duplicitous unit. It's not considered a retreat.
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1 hour ago, Nogginnocker said:
Playing against multiple Tzeentch players, who happen to be my friends in my local meta, has really bummed me out. I don't feel like playing AoS anymore. The Hosts Duplicitous combined with Change Host and fate dice for a guaranteed charge on T1 is an absolutely devasting combo. Being completely rooted in place by either a 50 wound unit (10 pinks) or a 100 wound unit (20 pinks) that I simply cannot kill for many turns makes for an incredibly demoralizing experience. You cannot retreat. At all. Why, GW? Why would you introduce this? I also simply can't play at all in the magic phase. Ugh. The joy of the game is gone for me.
Oh yeah. Forgot to mention. My units are almost always at least -2 to hit, sometimes -3. So, I'm literally hitting only on 6s. Ugggggggggh.
For this scenario I'd like to bring 3 units of 6 Spirit Hosts and sit a Spirit Torment behind them. Just overwhelm with dice for mortal wounds. Also, if you can get a Mourngul, he tears through chaff like that. Don't forget battleshock will be exceedingly tough if you manage to kill the last pink, because he's wasting those 1's and 2's from his destiny dice to save blues or brimstones.. And every 3 you kill lets you heal with your Spirit Torments. Combined with Ruler of the Spirit Hosts you can be pretty much as durable as his pinks.
Also, don't forget that HALF your army can be brought in from the underworld. Drop your battlelines in your front row with a hero behind them and deep strike the rest. Yeah his pinks will hold up your front line for turns, but you are free to drop in on his heroes behind and wreak havoc. I've killed many a chicken (Lord of Change) with my Mournguls.
Another thing to think of, if you have Bladeghiest Revenants they can just retreat away flying over the pinks and charge a better target.
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Just make them cost variable percentage. Best one is 20%, mid is 10, etc. That way it scales with the game points. Also if they do this, remove the forced command traits and artefacts. That would make them feel more like a blend of battalions and army configuration.
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57 minutes ago, bsharitt said:
The Loonboss on Giant Squig and Ogor Tyrant are both out of stock and no longer available on the US store. Are we finally going to be seeing box set heroes released on their own?
This would actually be the best reveal from LVO. All the box set heroes available for sale.
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2 minutes ago, Maturin said:
Drakesworns do not reroll saves of 1. "Only" 3+ save that can easily be rended to 4 or worse, even if not rended it's only 3+ with no way to heal. No castellant, no aetheral brooch. It's very very risky.
I know, I'm not relying on them making saves. This is more of an alpha strike list. And the desolators are good anvil/hammer.
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It might be too cheeky, but what do you think about this Turragor?
SpoilerAllegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Storm Lance
- Artefact: Soulthief
Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Units
8 x Desolators (800)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102You can activate Heroes of Another Age and shoot with 8 Desolators which should be 4d3 mortal wounds on average. Then during shooting you have 2 stormbolt bows which can make the next volley even better. Storm Blast hits on 4, but with one skybolt landing, its 3, and if both it goes down to 2. Anything that survives will have to deal with an 8 man unit of desolators. Which is 40 attacks at 4/3/-1/2 assuming no skybolt hits.
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9 hours ago, Maglynn said:
Thanks! It looks (from what I've digested so far) like you can do stuff where you just refuse to die and keep coming back - is that actually practical, or is it a bit more 'flash' than 'bang'?
Sadly our recursion isn't up to the lore of a bunch of ghosts. But you can do some cool things. Like take a bigger unit of Spirit Hosts and surrounds your general with em. They're all 3 wounds, 4 up save ethereal, and you return d3 every hero phase. Black Coach does the same and got a good points drop recently.
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18 minutes ago, Maglynn said:
Are there any general guides to Nighthaunt for people new to the faction? Apologies if I've missed them, working through 160 pages takes a while ^^
Use minimum-sized units to fish for Wave of Terror.
A max unit of Chainrasps is darn near unkillable.
Spirit Torments are invaluable for 120 points.
Ruler of the Spirit Hosts is basically our only command trait.
Half of your army can be setup in deep strike. Use this a lot.
Dreadblade Harrow is amazing for mobility. He can redeploy anywhere outside of 9" of enemies and can immediately bring any unit to him for one command point.
This is a board spanning army. Everything flies and has ethereal. Use that to your advantage.
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I'm debating starting a chaos army between Tzeentch and Slaanesh. What do you guys think of this list?
Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum
Realm: UlguGeneral:
Lord of Change (380)
-Spell Hunters
-The Fanged Circlet
-Tzeentch's Firestorm
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
-Arcane Suggestion
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
-Miasmatic Blade
-Mark of Tzeentch (pretty sure it has to be)
The Blue Scribes (120)
-Fold Reality
The Changeling (120)
-Bolt of Tzeentch
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
-Treason of TzeentchBattleline:
6x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
3x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)Battalion:
Changehost (180)Endless Spells:
Balewind Vortex (40)
Daemonic Simulacrum (50)
Tome of Eyes (40)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)
2000/2000 Wounds: 96 (+18 from The Fanged Circlet Screamers summon, +50 from the Gaunt Summoner free Pink Horrors with splits, 164 total) -
3 minutes ago, Karragon said:
You only get 1 mount trait without a battalion.
My bad. I'll keep it on LCoSD then.
AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted · Edited by SleeperAgent
My friend started this game with the golden boys. I never liked them. But going through the gallery on here got me to try em out. I'm now doing White armor with black cloaks. All weapons will be a blue/purple metallic turboshift. The color scheme of an army is a big deal and I suggest to everyone to paint one cheap model and see if you want a whole army like that. If you dont strip it and try again.
It would be a massive help if GW would make an interactive 3d program that let you click paints and put them on areas of models so you could do it all beforehand.