Satyrical Sophist

January 18

I’ve not played as much as I’d like this year but have thoroughly enjoyed what I did play. I really like third edition. I think moving into fourth I’d like things to be more honed rather than a radical change. Thaaaat said, if we were looking for changes I do have some things I’d be interested in seeing. I’m going to include some changes I think would be interesting first, then do a Good/Bad/More specific what I’d change.

General Changes.

More Tags

I know some people want universal rules for a lot of things, and I can see it working, but I would really like units to get more keywords. We currently have stuff like Andtoran Locus, or Galletian Veteran, or Galletian hero. I would love to see these roles and more added onto units. Rather than having to define the terms for each time a GHB wants to care about them have them already in place. If they don’t do anything, fine, but it means if you ever want to do something to interact with all priests under 10 wounds who aren’t mounted it’s a lot easier. I imagine they would use fancy words for them, but RABBLE, LIGHT INFANTRY, HEAVY INFANTRY, LIGHT CAVALRY etc would let them refer to whole groups much easier. Does it run the risk of bloat? Maybe, but I think information can be included at the bottom in the tags much easier, and it’s only relevant if something wants to refer to it.

Priority roll.

I don’t have a problem with the priority roll myself but I know a lot of people do. One thing I do think is a big part of that is how much comes down to one single dice roll. Now, this idea might not work but I love the way warcry does priority. A short explanation is this. Each player rolls 6 dice and sorts them into singles, doubles, triples and quadruples.

(so if you rolled 1 2 2 3 4 4 then you would have 2 singles (1 and 3) and 2 doubles.)

The player with the most singles gets to choose who goes first, but doubles, triples and quadruples can all be spent on abilities. In warcry you also get a wild die each turn that you can either save for later turns, or add to your rolled dice. So you could choose to add another Single to try to take priority, or turn a double into a triple etc. I really like the system as a way for determining priority because the player who doesn’t get to choose priority tends to have access to more powerful abilities. What those abilities do would need to be determined but it has a lot of scope for being tuned. Something like a double might be worth a command point, but something like a quad probably wants to be quite a big thing. Allowing triples and quads to have out of sequence activations would be interesting, something like allowing a movement in your opponents turn, or a shooting action for example.

Heroic Actions. The good.

I know heroic actions are somewhat rules bloat, but I do enjoy the way they prevent spam. I particularly like when they tie rules to them. Thematically the Free Guild Cavalier Marshal having a bonus effect when doing Finest Hour is a lovely piece of rules design to me. I like it.

Heroic Actions. The bad.

Some factions just don’t have much to do with them, and that can feel pretty bad.

Heroic Actions. What I’d like changing.

If you added in the tags then heroic actions are a really easy thing to have interact with them. Let a small foot hero who has the HEIROPHANT keyword (meaning a small priest say) do a heroic action that gives them +1 to prayer rolls. Give the ADJUTANT keyword a 2+ to generate a command point, something like that.

If you used a warcry style priority this is also a good point to interact with that system. Let heroic actions be some way of generating new wild dice, let another one count your ability nice as one higher than it is.

I have a lot more, but I should probably think them through more and type it up when I have more time.

January 17

56 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

All that stuff relies on running other elves, though.

I already understand the Sorceress is good if you have other elves, I was just confused by you saying she's an auto-include even in list without elves.

I suspect people are baking in a single unit of dread spears entirely as sorcerer fodder, without considering it as other elves. It’s a pretty minimal investment that gives a battle line and screen, if you are going for two sorceresses then it’s not a lot of points each. It might also be that if you are taking anklet for the extra range on blizzard, though a battlemage might be better for that.

Executioners are higher damage than hammerers unless the target has a 5+ save, in which case hammerers are the same (executioners better vs 6+) as well. Hammerers are more efficient points wise against some targets, since they are 20 points cheaper. Specifically Hammerers edge out Executioners in efficiency unless the target has a 2+ or better save. Executioners are amazingly efficient vs insane save stacking, since so much of their output is MW based. If you put tenebrael blades on them the output is insane even on a per point basis, expecting to put out 26 unsaved wound for 10 elves. That said, if you are putting TB on a unit, that unit is going to do nutty things. Black Guard are a bit behind (they have the same profile without the mortal wounds, which aren’t as good with TB) with about 23, are 30 points cheaper, have 2 inch range and are very likely to have a 4+ ward.

January 17

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Hammerers vs Executioners, which is a better investment, assuming they both have the support they need to be their best? Both get the MW on 6s to hit don't they? Executioners can get Tenebrael Shards going with them. Guess that potential rend -4 though on the Hammerers is basically all MW on most armor saves...but they lack speed and the strike-first possibility of Executioners.

Who runs both?!?

Hammerers do not have mortal wounds, they just have the -2 rend by default. Executioners are -1 but have 6s turn to mortal wounds (and attack sequence ends). I’ve only seen executioners in lists, but I suspect that’s due to them being elf based lists. I was gonna give you the damage numbers for executioners in comparison but I noticed that I’ve accidentally given them MW on 6s to wound in my calculation, so I’ll have to fix that in the morning. I need to do some updates anyhow. I want to see what the command corps expected melee output is. I think it might be higher than I expected.

January 16

2 hours ago, Doko said:

the 8'8 number is the damage median that irondrakes make

its a unit with 10 models doing 20 shoots at 3 to hit and 3 to wound,if you calculate the 66% of 20 and then the 66% again,then you get that irondrakes damage is 8'8

and is easy to see he irondrakes are bad rigth now if we see entire data with treathrange that is the range of the weapon+move of the model,so how far really he can shoot.

only to compare i gonna add the two best shooting units of the game(reavers and blisbarbs)

reavers 160(or 150i dont remember) for 8'8 damage rend 1 with at 24" or 10 damage at 9"

blisbarbs archers 170 for 8'8 rend 1 damage at 30"

irondrakes 160 for 4'4 rend 1 damage at 19" or 8'8 rend 1 at 15"

so i think is easy to see that these 3 units cost the same(10 points more or less) but irondrakes have same damage with HALF treathrange or HALF damage with betwen 5 and 11" less range.

how is that balanced?

if they give us the order to can move and ignore this useless penalty then irondrakes MUST spend one order of one hero to have same damage,similar treathrange and similar cost that these 2 units.

even with this change irodrakes would be worse than these two units......

also is true that irondrakes have 1 better save than these two units, but in case of blisbarb archers is the same tankiness,because more or less +1 save if 16% less damage and blisbarbs have 11 wounds that is a 10% more than dwarfs,so both units have same tankiness per point.

also note as irondrakes have ABSOLUTELY 0 buffs in this new book to their damage or rend while per example blisbarbs have multiples buffs availables.

in short irondrakes are useless and umplayables rigth now,and even with this change they would be worse than other books similar units,but could be playables

Is there a reason you use apostrophes for decimal places by the way? I've of commas being used in spanish, but I keep thinking you mean feet and inches.

On an extremely petty note, by that standard it should be 8.9, since its 8.8 recurring. On a less petty note, that damage number is wrong unless you are choosing not to take the champion weapon. Under that, you get 9.8 damage at at least AP 1, ( Its 8 at rend 1 and 1.8 at rend 2), so 10% higher damage . Not moving its obviously half that.

Blissbarbs have a 6+ save by the way, that is a LOT more fragile.

I do think that Dwarfs need some help, I just think its way less than one might expect. Hammerer damage is already kind of nutty (Its actually pretty much the highest in the book, the only things rivalling it are Engage the Foe Cavaliers and Engage the Foe Relic Griffons, and those have less damage at the high rend numbers). Its weirdly easy to get rend -4 hammerers (counter charge and runelord do it).

Cities as a whole has a 49% win rate by Woehammer's combined winrates, same for its RTT/Casual, and 50% for its GT winrate. We kind of look like we are doing OK.

Honest Wargamer has a lot of cities good results this week by the way. Reasonably varied, some aelf focused, some more human focused. Lot of Griffons and even a Black dragon showing up. Duarden didn't make any appearances that I saw

January 16

1 hour ago, Doko said:

yes,i have sent multiples email to aos rules team to balance irondrakes because rigth now they are useless.

i sent them many options and one is as you said add them to the order of move and dont count as moved.

oh and they wont be too efficient because they even with that buff they are 160 points for 8'8 rend1 damage at 16" when reavers for same 160 points do same damage but at 24" and slanes archers also same damage and point but at 30"

we have had city for some months allready and we havent won any tournament so far,so we need buffs and not nerfs.

but im sure that as allways fusilers,zelestra and comand corps gonna be nerfed because many persons are crying about that build even if it havent won any tournament.

pretty sure that they gonna faq comand corps to not can use the revive d3 models on same unit and cant use the cancel cp of multiple comand corps on same cp.

also more increases to fusilers points and zenestra.

while ignoring how bad are dwarfs and monsters

I’m pretty sure the AoS rules team aren’t going to take your feedback on that, despite your passion.

Cities have been out in full for about 11 weeks, which included Christmas and stuff, and are an army that isn’t the fastest to paint. I’m not surprised that they aren’t winning a bunch of tournaments, though I have seen a number of 4-1s. I’d honestly be a bit worried if they had won a bunch. I do agree that I have they were relatively conservatively pointed, and feel they could use a helping hand, but I think you have an inaccurate view of how much help they need.

On the iron drakes, I’ve seen you post the 8’8 rend 1 damage thing on multiple forums and still have no idea what you mean by that. It also ignores that the grudgehammer is rend 2.

The iron drakes damage output is already competitive with most stuff in the game. I agree that the no movement thing is a major downside, but you let the march order benefit them then they end up being move 7, high damage shooting with a pretty good armour save. I really like iron drakes, but I think you might need to increase points if you gave them that. Personally it might be a bit too specific, but allowing Iron Drakes to choose between counting as stationary for the order OR getting 3” movement might be enough? They’d still be slow, but able to move somewhat.

You already can’t try to use multiple whisperblades on the same command, that’s not a rule change it’s just the rule.

I think in terms of rules changes I wouldn’t mind a change to Warforger spell, making it either target or maybe even only effect melee. If you made the spell melee only I think it would open up a potential big points drop to fusiliers.

Otherwise I think general minor points drops would be nice, potentially bigger ones to our monsters.

A big overall concern is shooting getting too good, we don’t want leaf blower lists. It’s not fun, it’s not good for balance and it gets you nerfed hard.

January 15

16 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Gotta say, I'm considering getting at least 1 more Command Corps. 18 wound unit that does a variety of useful things and can actually somewhat fight!

I would wait a little bit, with an expected balance slate so soon. The command corps are probably too cheap with what they do. I think ideally points overall come down for CoS, but Corps feel a bit too good in comparison to some other options.

Speaking of the balance data slate, what are people hoping for? It feels like we could do with something, but it might not need too big a change for it to become problematic. I kind of wanted Iron Drakes to get the benefit from march and count as remain stationary, but that might make them too efficient too easily.

December 19, 2023

38 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

having a nice non-unique monster would be nice, with hero and non-hero variants. A giant plague toad would be a cool fit for it.

I kind of wish there was a generic maggoth rider, feels like a missing thing. It’s kind of weird that lord of affliction is the only option for a non unique foot hero who isn’t a small foot hero.

December 7, 2023

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

It's a case for rai not raw

I don't know which way you are arguing RAI to be, I could see it going either way. I personally think the intent is that it improves the ward for them, but is hard to maintain.

If their intent was to specifically disallow units with bigger bases a much better way would be to say "Wounds characteristic of 7 or less", which achieves the same result. Notably the vargulf base (90 by 52) is also too big to benefit. It would be easy enough to extend that to include Vargulfs in a few ways either by having it be 8 or less wounds or just excluding monsters.

December 7, 2023

5 hours ago, Craze said:

I think it is important to again state that Crypt Guard cannot buff wards of our big monsters + Ushoran the Handsome. Reference for this is again 1.5.1 in the core rules on measuring distances. You always only measure from the closest model.

I read that rule. If you measure between the closest model then the closest model to the left side of the big monster is different to the closest model to the right side of the big monster. I think it's waiting on an FAQ which unfortunately won't be out for ages.

November 17, 2023

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

You want 10 4+ 6++ wounds for the same cost as ungor?

Doko has strong feelings on things. I've found its best to agree to disagree.

Battle line chaff is a hard thing to point. AoS doesn't tend to go below 80 points for a unit, so there is a fairly high floor, and when the objective is to die in place then you need to work out what benefits each has.

Steel Helms. They get a ward and can benefit from human buffs, which can be pretty significant and they turn on a unit of hunters and fusiliers as battle line. I suspect a lot of lists run exactly one unit for this reason. The other thing is that I think the command corps are a solid unit and end up cheaper per wound than the steelhelms.

Both of the Darkling Covens Elf battle line units are pretty much better than steel helms unless you are using synergies. I like the 6++ on an objective but its situational. I do like some bonus movement though and the extra bravery can make a difference. Having effective 7 bravery over effective 6 bravery means chip damage matters less and for these guys means that the sorcerer killing one doesn't risk more running.

Duardin battle line feel a bit too expensive for me, When you are looking at 130 points I'm much more tempted by some of the conditional battle line.

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Agreed. The primal dice system favors the unbinder. I think our armies biggest weakness is that damage output only becomes formidable if you get actually Blazing Weapons off. I find myself throwing every primal dice at it and even taking the +1 to cast buff over the +1 armor save buff just for extra help.

I have been deploying the warforger really far back to try and stay out of unbind range but thats only possible on early turns.

I might be misreading what you are saying but it sounds like you are choosing between a +1 to cast and the save buff? If you pick the save buff then the warforger can't cast spells at all.

I think under the new wording you can run 2 warforgers, have one use the +1 save buff and the other cast the spell, but in that case you will not have the +1 to cast buff. I'm a bit tired and might be reading what you mean wrong though.

November 14, 2023

Looking at trying a bit of a mixed list. Been very slow to to start assembling and painting due to real life stuff but this is what I'm currently aiming to paint up first. Fits in two battle regiments.

Freeguild Griffon General with damage relic and can't be wounded on better than 4+

Alchemite Warforger

Cavalier Marshal

20 Fusiliers

10 Steel Helms

Free Guild Command Corps

Wildercorps Hunters

Freeguild Cavaliers

5 Drakespawn Knights

Drakespawn Chariot

1980.

Plan was for a somewhat reasonable list without spamming anything.

November 14, 2023

3 hours ago, Noserenda said:

And yeah, templates suck in battle games cant be said enough

I think I mind templates the least in rank and file games. The big problem with them for me is in skirmish games where you have a lot more control of coherency. Technically it really makes a massive difference being as spread out as possible Vs clumped up, but it's a lot slower to do right. In old world it's only skirmishers that you need to worry about.

November 9, 2023

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Oh, that's a stealthy buff to the Ven Densts in the form of two Orders for one leader slot, then. Also makes forming core battalions a bit easier.

Two heroes only taking up one hero slot for 80 points each is pretty tempting.

November 1, 2023

10 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

So, I might be joining an AoS league next year.

That means it's time to look into actually building a semi-competitive list.

Currently, this is what I am thinking:

Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart (Misthavn/Lethis)
- Grand Strategy: Banners Held High
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Steam Tank with Commander (270)
- Artefact: Glimmering/Arcane Tome/???

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (260)
- Lore of the Collegiate Arcane: Levitate/Merciless Blizzard

- Artefact: Mastro Vivetti's Maginificent Macroscope
Alchemite Warforger (90)

- General

- Lore of the Collegiate Arcane: Hoarfrost/Transmutation of Lead
- Command Trait: Master of Ballistics
Freeguild Cavalier-Marshal (120)

Pontifex Zenestra (150)

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Steelhelms (100)

10 x Freeguild Steelhelms (100)

20 x Freeguild Fusiliers (300)

Units
5 x Freeguild Cavaliers (180)

6 x Freeguild Command Corps (170)

Behemoths

Steam Tank (230)

Core Battalions
*Warlord

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
Drops: 11

Game plan:

This is a fairly sturdy high-shooting list, so my game plan is to go high drops and get the deployment advantage. If I have to go first, great: I can get all my buffs up and shoot some stuff off the table. I have to go second, that's not the end of the world either, since this list has screens and anvils and can obsorb some damage. Plus, Orders allow Cities to play well out-of-turn.

In general, this list probably wins by picking off key units before engaging. It should play decently on objectives, but it not outstanding on them and needs good target priority to win, I think.

List choices:

Grand Strategy is Banners Held High. This list has 6 banners, which is decent, and can probably keep at least a few of them alive until the end of the game. This will be a near auto-succeed against Monster Mash and similar lists. A lot of armies don't even get banners on most of their units.

To keep things brief, I think Banners Held High is probably the best Cities GS for my list (and likely in general). Of the GHB strategies, the only one I could see myself using is Spellcasting Savant, where you have to keep your wizard-general alive, but that seems harder to do than Banners Held High.

I picked Hallowheart as my city because I really want to get the Alchemite spell off. 3d6 casting is a huge bonus and actually has some hidden upsides: It makes you immune to miscasts, because those are defined as unmodified casting rolls of 2. If you don't use primal dice, then you won't get primal miscasts out of rolling 2 or more 1s either. Hallowheart makes you suffer d3 mortals on a casting roll of 10+, but that is unmodified as well. It's pretty much a 50/50 chance, and you can mitigate the damage with wards, which is really managable. I think in the current season, the high cast bonus is necessary if you want to rely on spells to any significant extent. Even Settler's Gain is a noticable drop in cast chance, even more so if you factor in unbinds.

Other Cities in contention are Misthavn and Lethis. Misthavn because it helps get units in range and allows them to reposition, which is just generally good. Lethis because it would give me two priests to attempt to Curse opponents and remove wards. I will have to do the math at some point about how many extra wounds I would need to get from prayers to make it worthwhile over the increased cast chance for Blazing Weapons and whatever the Hurricanum gets up to.

The Alchemite is my general and gets the master of ballistics command trait to enable the Fusilier block. He gets to cast two spells if I want him to because he is an Andtorian Locus, so I put Hoarfrost on there as well. It might be useful on Steelhelms occasionally. I think I will actually limit myself to one cast per phase most of the time (and take the extra command point instead), because at two casts there is a real danger of dying to the Hallowheart battle trait. An alternative would be Transmutation of Lead, which has the potential to at least do more mortals than Arcane Bolt occasionally.

The Hurricanum gets Levitate or Merciless Blizzard as a spell. The Hurricanum is there to support the Steam Tanks, and levitating one of them for counter-charge shennenigans is pretty good. Blizzard has a good chance of going off on the Hurricanum and it should generally be close enough to the front lines to actually cast it. Most of the time, the Hurricanum should probably be casting Mystic Shield or Chain Lightning, so I think picking a toolbox spell like levitate makes sense on it.

For artefacts, I am somewhat undecided. I know that I want to put the Macroscope on the Hurricanum or Steam Tank Commander, because it will make it much more likely that the tanks can shoot with everything turn 1. I will have a second artefact, which I have not yet decided on. In contention are. Shemteks Grimour, Arcane Tome and the Glimmering. I am currently favouring Arcane Tome on the Tank Commander so that he can self-buff with Mystic Shield, but I am not sure if risking mortals from casting on him is actually the play.

Core Battalions are not yet decided. I will take one Warlord battalion, but not sure apart from that. I could get Wizard Finders, but it's not really that good for this list.

Strategy:

Unit groupings will probably be:

Tank Group

Steam Tank Commander

Steam Tank

Hurricanum

Command Corps

Ranged Group

Alchemite

Fusiliers

Steelhelms

Cavalry Group

Cavalier Marshal

Cavaliers

Zenestra

Zenestra

Steelhelms

The tank group is an offensive threat, but can also take a punch and grind out combats really well. The units support each other: The Hurricanum gives the tanks +1 to hit on all their profiles as well as mystic shield and an extra Order, while the Tanks keep the Hurricanum alive into the later rounds and allow it to deal big damage with its Storm of Shemtek. The Command Corps helps in a bunch of small ways, most notably by healing the tanks and disrupting commands. Orders are probably Counter Fire and Advance for turn 1.

The ranged group will probably hang back and shoot most of the time. You all know how it works: Mortal wound spell, all-out-attack, point-and-click a unit off the board. The Steelhelms help screen for it. Turn 1 the order is probably Counter Fire.

The cavalry group goes for that big charge which the cavalry marshall/cavalier power pair can try to get once per game. It also provides some much needed mobility and a 3rd threat for this list. Engage the Foe order when possible, Counter Charge otherwise.

Zenestra buffs whatever needs it most and tries to position herself so that she gets two prayers and can give a ward to most units. Also, she is a welcome source of an extra order, especially turn 1 for another Advance in Formation.

Battle Tactics:

Battle tactics seem hard.

Cities tactics:

This list can do Raise The Banner (take an objective off an opponent with a Great Herald) because it has a Command Corps.

Bring Full Arms To Bear (destroy a suppressed unit) seems like it should be possible sometimes turn 2 onwards. For this tactic, the unit needs to live through the initial shooting attack in order to be suppressed, but can then be destroyed in any way (even battleshock). Seems situational, but possible.

Likewise with Blackpowder Bombardment (destroy 3 units in the shooting phase). This list has a lot of shooting, so if small or weakened units are hanging around, it seems situationally possible.

Mount The Charge is hard for this list (charge and take an objective with only mounted units). Mounted units are the Tank Commander, the Hurricanum, the Marshal and the Cavaliers. Notably not Zenestra or the regular Steam Tank.

Since I have no elves and dwarves, I can't do the other tactics.

GHB tactics:

Intimidate the Invaders (get more units wholly outside of your territory than in it) seems like a good turn 1 tactic. The Tank and Cavalry groups want to advance, and Zenestra wants to get out of our territory as well. Pretty easy depending on the battle plan.

Reprisal (destroy the unit that destroyed your general) should situationally be possible, although ideally the Alchemite won't die a lot.

With 3d6 casting and only a few spells I want to cast per turn, Magical Dominance (successfully cast at least 1 spell and don't have any spells unbound) seems doable.

Same for Magical Mayhem (destroy a unit with a spell).

Everything else seems to situational to plan for or too hard for this list to do.

That leaves us with 2 fairly dependable tactics and 6 situational ones. Kind of sucks, but it is what it is.

Overall:

I like this list and I think it should be fun to play, but I also have a few things that I wish I could include that I didn't have room for. An extra hero like a battlemage would be cool for that extra order, artefact and cast (since I am already in Hallowheart). I would kind of like to bring more bodies. Getting in 30 Fusiliers would also be a big damage boost that I feel I am leaving on the table after already investing a lot into the shooting group. On the other hand, I would love to be able to fit in another Steam Tank. But fitting both a tank group and ranged group into the list is actually kind of hard to manage. Overall, I think I want that good Fusilier shooting more than I want an extra tank, though.

I'd be grateful for you guys' perspectives, especially when it comes to some of the list building coices that I am not yet 100% set on, like artefacts and battalions.

I will try to give a more helpful response when I get a chance but looks interesting! I have a couple of questions. Are you assuming that Steam Tank Commanders are meant to get the steam tank keyword for issuing the command to themselves and another tank? I'd be really tempted to see if I could find the missing 10 points to upgrade the steam tank to a commander, the extra shots and option for extra orders seem good.

The other thing is that I don't think a hurricanum can take blizzard? It has to be a locus and has too many wounds I think.

October 24, 2023

5 hours ago, rattila said:

On the other hand, what units of the new cities of sigmar make great allies for stormcast eternals ? Steelhelms for bodies ? The cannon? Or other things? I did not have read the warscrolls already.

I think you are looking for stuff that does unusual stuff and doesn't depend on orders or unique magic.

The command corps being able to stop commands is situationally very powerful, and the command corps are pretty cheap per wound. Keeping the spy and sawbones alive til last let's you keep stopping command traits and the unit can heal itself back up (it's not amazing at it, since you only expect about one model a turn, but it can spike).

The khharibys (spelling is definitely wrong) is a relatively cheap monster that messes with the opponents morale.

I don't think Dark Riders are good, but if the points drop slightly they also are a fast unit that messes with command points.

I could also see some armies wanting to take scourgerunner chariots. 80 points for a fast shooting chariot.

Some other stuff starts to bump up against the ally points limit, you can almost get a unit of drakespawn and 3 drakespawn chariots but end up 10 over.

October 23, 2023

34 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Good shout out, I had not though about him as an ally. Although I think I would rather want to auto-succeed his better Chain Lightning in a lot of cases.

I am still wondering about what Stormcast allies could be fun to run. Maybe the next edition starter box will bring some more cool stuff. Personally, my main problem is that there is already too much cool Cities stuff I can't fit in my lists, haha.

I think SCE allies can be used to fill a few roles.

I think our wizards are too good to replace for most of them, and heroes come at a bit of a premium for CoS due to orders. The only hero I am interested in is the Knight Judicator and maybe Ionus. The knight Judicator can put mortals down field and also comes with a pair of gryf hound buddies who can help with battle tactics. His shooting profile is pretty good as well, and if I remember correctly Greywaters additional AoA doesn't have restrictions on targeting, just that it needs to be issued by a Greywater hero. Having a profile of 3+/2+/-3/3 upping that to 2+/2+ is pretty nice.

There are three other areas where I think SCE fill a gap, one major and two niche.

If you have built a more castle based CoS build you might struggle to grab further away objectives. Something like the questor soulsworn, palladors, or vanguard hunters with teleport on demand could really help get you those points without having to break up your castle. That's an area where khinerai or tree revs could fit as well.

The other areas are pretty niche but interesting. Gryff hounds are a cheap unit and at 9 inches move they are pretty much fast enough to travel with and screen caviliers if you run with them. I also quite like vigilors for being able to put a +1 hit debuff on an enemy unit, which can help if you are running MSU.

October 23, 2023

Rules for Ionus are up. At 400 he just fits in as an ally. I think as a Stormcast priest he gets access to the lethis prayer and can autosucceed on it. Might be optimism based on how cool I think the model is.

October 14, 2023

5 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I have to say the title of the next Dawnbringers book puzzles me. "The Long Hunt", it's the hunt for what ? A new big bad ? A mcguffin that will help or destroy one of the crusades ? I hope it moves the narrative a bit. It's been a very slow burn so far for what's shaping up to be the end of edition campaign.

Hasn't the Stormcast been hunting for a solution to the reforging problem, his dragon to a dragon afterlife, and the bug rider hunting to keep the memory of his god of the hunt alive? Those all seem like long hunts.

October 10, 2023

My local shop has steam tanks in for some reason. Tempted to get some, had anyone tried steam tanks but not spamming them? Like 2-3? What do people think?

October 7, 2023

4 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Fought 3 battles with my steam tank lists so far. I'll give the abreviated run down of the battles and lists.

Battle 1: lord ordinator/warforger +6 stanks and chaff VS Archaon + 30 pinks and 2 auto cast wizards
Opponent was a 1 drop and chose to go first. Auto cast mystic shield on Archy and threw the pinks forward without a care. The squishy wizards hid back behind buildings. My turn he finest houred Archy and thus I ignored him, getting close enough to wipe out a unit of pinks and leaving 1 stank exposed. (5v5)
I won the roll off and goot the dreaded double turn. All cannons turned on Archaon and in a flurry of failed 3+ saves, he took 16/20 wounds. The steam guns neutered the pinks down so that 2 melee charges reduced them to nothing. The gryph hounds retreated out of combat to form a screen.
On my opponent's turn he summoned a lord of change and moved his wizards forward to blizzard me and such. The LoC charged the gryph hounds and took 4 damage for his trouble. Killed 3 gryphs and a gyrocopter. (Archy ran to the other side of the battlefield and healed 6 wounds.) (10v10)
Roll off ... and I won it. My opponent surrendered at this point as Archaon and some pinks vs the world didn't appeal to him.

Battle 2: Hurricanum/warforger + 5 stanks and stormcast chaff VS GUO/fly lord +4 mortal flies and plague bearers. ... And some blight kings.
I had less drops and thought I could reach him with my full shooting, so I went first. I could not. He picked our home objectives as active and sat on it. Hiding everything but his plague bearers. I killed a couple and skirmished a little with him. On his turn he sat back and waited. I won the roll off and went second to pick the center objectives and draw him out. He dropped all his flies on my left flank and killed the hunters for 1 fly. (overwatch + counter charge tank) He only took 1 center objective with summoned nurglings. I took both on my turn and unloaded on the flies. The lord and the first escort died, robbing me of my battle tactic. The other took 7 wounds. I won the roll off and elected to go second and keep it in the middle. He finally advanced with is army but struggled to keep the objectives. I spent the rest of the game tying him and killing fleshy abundanced plague bearers. Won by a 4 points from him surrendering the objectives turn 2 & 3. Almost lost 2 tanks.

Battle 3: Coalesced Kroak bomb VS Huricanum/warforger + 5 stanks and stormcast chaff
The deployment was very narrow so we both formed blobs and lined up across. He had 3 kroxigor,3 aggradons with a scar vet and an oldblood carnasaur. I went first and tried to kill Kroak as my hunters took the side objectives. He hero phase moved his front line up and charged my chaff and a stank. 1 hound unit died while the other escaped. Overwatch from 2 tanks and melee took 12 wounds off the carnasaur.
I won the roll off, (A trend? ;p) and killed the carnasuar, the kroxigor, and tried for Kroak again. Failed to kill him. On his turn I learned that Kroak's bomb is 12" + 6", not 18+6, so I was safe again from him. On his turn, in a surprise move, Kroak floated out into the middle of the table to nuke all my stanks.
The roll off came and the double turn gambit ... Failed. Kroak, the temple guard, and the astrolith all died but he took the side objectives from me. At this point the stanks split up and resecured the objectives. Kroak didn't wreck me like I thought he would. Being coalesced probably didn't help him.

All of my group says that they feel the list is matchup dependant and something will just wreck it utterly. The stanks stand up to hits real good. The chaff are key for battle tactics. I would probably have failed many times without them. If you can get the steam guns in range, they absolutely DELETE units with focus fire. Durability is pretty ridiculous too. Aggradons, blight lords, and a carnasaur all bounced off. Still looking for enough mortal wounds lists to kill the stanks.

Hope you have a good one!

Very cool. What was your list? I was wondering about the Pontifex or potentially the command corps in a steam tank list. The opportunity for a ward save or healing 3d3 a turn seem well worth it.

October 1, 2023

I wonder how many spares you are left with to jazz up an old unit of ghouls. I think I saw someone counting heads and ending up with 19 or so? A head swap and an arm swap would make a big difference for old ghouls

September 29, 2023

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have been looking at the Questors Soulsworn from Warcry for Stormcast allies.

Pros:

Cool looking melee knight guys

Deepstrike on warscroll

Capture for 3 per model

3+ save/3 wounds

The only problem for me is that they are kinda expensive at 230.

13 points a wound on a 3+ is not bad though

September 25, 2023

26 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

I agree with the points made by @Mutton I would also add strike first on the charge.

I also find the engagement range of 1 inche in 40k better (instead of 3 inches in aos), I don't like checking up all the time the 3' space between units non in combat, I also don't like the possibility to fail a charge at a very short range and 40k fix that imo

I have never really understood the reasoning behind the concept of failing or succeeding a charge in a wargame like Warhammer. I can understand that you can lose the momentum in a battle because of various factors (bad terrains, pikes, shooting...) and lose the effect of a charge, however you still end up in combat with your enemies by moving towards them.

I would really hate strike first on the charge. It would massively weaken strike first as a mechanic and also really push alpha strike lists. At the moment you need to choose where and when to engage, strike first on the charge is a big push to just always swinging in with combat capable units. I'm in favour of more conditional strike first, and units being able to combination attack, but not just blanket strike first.

Failing a charge would be failing to organise enough to advance as a group in battle ready formation I guess, which is why it is easier the closer you are, stuff like musicians make it easier etc. Its a game choice to have your unit not advance at all as opposed to charging with some kind of penalty, or lost models or whatnot.

September 21, 2023

4 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I'm really interested in seeing how they handle Stormcast going forward. After the middling response to the initial models, I don't think GW had a lot of time to pivot their design direction in time for 2e; the Sacrosanct feel like a natural expansion rather than a redesign. But 3e and the Thunderstrike models almost feel like a complete reboot, and many of those models feel more like replacements instead of additions (Vindictors and Liberators, Annihilators and the other Paladins, etc.)

I've heard some rumors that older units like Liberators are getting new models for 4e, which I initially thought was absurd until I remembered that it would be nine years since they had been released, and given GW's design-to-release timeline, by the time we get to 4e they could have been in-development eleven to twelve years ago. I don't think there's any scenario where they drop them entirely (at least, not for another twenty years) but the roster bloat is real and I don't see a way they can diversify some of these units when there are so many trying to fill the same battlefield roles.

I think the best case for players would be to condense warscrolls and merge some of the Stormcast options. We already haven redeemers as a group name for Vindictors, Sequitors and Liberators. Merge the warscrolls, discontinue the oldest option and let people run them if they like the models, like how you can run phoenix guard as black guard.

You can do the same for Paladins, maybe keep shield armed ones as a separate sheet, but otherwise it's just the same.

September 21, 2023

4 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Yeah thats the idea. Still need to skills to actually pull it off XD. Could also use the 3 as gore grunta proxies. Dont know how much the size difference is between the thunderwolves/guntad/gnashtoofs.

Thunder wolf Cav is on 60 round. Gore Gruntas are 90 by 52 oval. Gnashtoof is on 105 by 70 oval.

I did always think that the existence of the great gnashtoof very much pointed to the existence of the regular gnashtoof, still hoping that gets a model at some point.

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