Satyrical Sophist
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Posts posted by Satyrical Sophist
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34 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Good shout out, I had not though about him as an ally. Although I think I would rather want to auto-succeed his better Chain Lightning in a lot of cases.
I am still wondering about what Stormcast allies could be fun to run. Maybe the next edition starter box will bring some more cool stuff. Personally, my main problem is that there is already too much cool Cities stuff I can't fit in my lists, haha.
I think SCE allies can be used to fill a few roles.
I think our wizards are too good to replace for most of them, and heroes come at a bit of a premium for CoS due to orders. The only hero I am interested in is the Knight Judicator and maybe Ionus. The knight Judicator can put mortals down field and also comes with a pair of gryf hound buddies who can help with battle tactics. His shooting profile is pretty good as well, and if I remember correctly Greywaters additional AoA doesn't have restrictions on targeting, just that it needs to be issued by a Greywater hero. Having a profile of 3+/2+/-3/3 upping that to 2+/2+ is pretty nice.
There are three other areas where I think SCE fill a gap, one major and two niche.
If you have built a more castle based CoS build you might struggle to grab further away objectives. Something like the questor soulsworn, palladors, or vanguard hunters with teleport on demand could really help get you those points without having to break up your castle. That's an area where khinerai or tree revs could fit as well.
The other areas are pretty niche but interesting. Gryff hounds are a cheap unit and at 9 inches move they are pretty much fast enough to travel with and screen caviliers if you run with them. I also quite like vigilors for being able to put a +1 hit debuff on an enemy unit, which can help if you are running MSU.
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Rules for Ionus are up. At 400 he just fits in as an ally. I think as a Stormcast priest he gets access to the lethis prayer and can autosucceed on it. Might be optimism based on how cool I think the model is.
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5 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
I have to say the title of the next Dawnbringers book puzzles me. "The Long Hunt", it's the hunt for what ? A new big bad ? A mcguffin that will help or destroy one of the crusades ? I hope it moves the narrative a bit. It's been a very slow burn so far for what's shaping up to be the end of edition campaign.
Hasn't the Stormcast been hunting for a solution to the reforging problem, his dragon to a dragon afterlife, and the bug rider hunting to keep the memory of his god of the hunt alive? Those all seem like long hunts.
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My local shop has steam tanks in for some reason. Tempted to get some, had anyone tried steam tanks but not spamming them? Like 2-3? What do people think?
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4 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:
Fought 3 battles with my steam tank lists so far. I'll give the abreviated run down of the battles and lists.
Battle 1: lord ordinator/warforger +6 stanks and chaff VS Archaon + 30 pinks and 2 auto cast wizards
Opponent was a 1 drop and chose to go first. Auto cast mystic shield on Archy and threw the pinks forward without a care. The squishy wizards hid back behind buildings. My turn he finest houred Archy and thus I ignored him, getting close enough to wipe out a unit of pinks and leaving 1 stank exposed. (5v5)
I won the roll off and goot the dreaded double turn. All cannons turned on Archaon and in a flurry of failed 3+ saves, he took 16/20 wounds. The steam guns neutered the pinks down so that 2 melee charges reduced them to nothing. The gryph hounds retreated out of combat to form a screen.
On my opponent's turn he summoned a lord of change and moved his wizards forward to blizzard me and such. The LoC charged the gryph hounds and took 4 damage for his trouble. Killed 3 gryphs and a gyrocopter. (Archy ran to the other side of the battlefield and healed 6 wounds.) (10v10)
Roll off ... and I won it. My opponent surrendered at this point as Archaon and some pinks vs the world didn't appeal to him.Battle 2: Hurricanum/warforger + 5 stanks and stormcast chaff VS GUO/fly lord +4 mortal flies and plague bearers. ... And some blight kings.
I had less drops and thought I could reach him with my full shooting, so I went first. I could not. He picked our home objectives as active and sat on it. Hiding everything but his plague bearers. I killed a couple and skirmished a little with him. On his turn he sat back and waited. I won the roll off and went second to pick the center objectives and draw him out. He dropped all his flies on my left flank and killed the hunters for 1 fly. (overwatch + counter charge tank) He only took 1 center objective with summoned nurglings. I took both on my turn and unloaded on the flies. The lord and the first escort died, robbing me of my battle tactic. The other took 7 wounds. I won the roll off and elected to go second and keep it in the middle. He finally advanced with is army but struggled to keep the objectives. I spent the rest of the game tying him and killing fleshy abundanced plague bearers. Won by a 4 points from him surrendering the objectives turn 2 & 3. Almost lost 2 tanks.Battle 3: Coalesced Kroak bomb VS Huricanum/warforger + 5 stanks and stormcast chaff
The deployment was very narrow so we both formed blobs and lined up across. He had 3 kroxigor,3 aggradons with a scar vet and an oldblood carnasaur. I went first and tried to kill Kroak as my hunters took the side objectives. He hero phase moved his front line up and charged my chaff and a stank. 1 hound unit died while the other escaped. Overwatch from 2 tanks and melee took 12 wounds off the carnasaur.
I won the roll off, (A trend? ;p) and killed the carnasuar, the kroxigor, and tried for Kroak again. Failed to kill him. On his turn I learned that Kroak's bomb is 12" + 6", not 18+6, so I was safe again from him. On his turn, in a surprise move, Kroak floated out into the middle of the table to nuke all my stanks.
The roll off came and the double turn gambit ... Failed. Kroak, the temple guard, and the astrolith all died but he took the side objectives from me. At this point the stanks split up and resecured the objectives. Kroak didn't wreck me like I thought he would. Being coalesced probably didn't help him.All of my group says that they feel the list is matchup dependant and something will just wreck it utterly. The stanks stand up to hits real good. The chaff are key for battle tactics. I would probably have failed many times without them. If you can get the steam guns in range, they absolutely DELETE units with focus fire. Durability is pretty ridiculous too. Aggradons, blight lords, and a carnasaur all bounced off. Still looking for enough mortal wounds lists to kill the stanks.
Hope you have a good one!
Very cool. What was your list? I was wondering about the Pontifex or potentially the command corps in a steam tank list. The opportunity for a ward save or healing 3d3 a turn seem well worth it.
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I wonder how many spares you are left with to jazz up an old unit of ghouls. I think I saw someone counting heads and ending up with 19 or so? A head swap and an arm swap would make a big difference for old ghouls
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2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
I have been looking at the Questors Soulsworn from Warcry for Stormcast allies.
Pros:
- Cool looking melee knight guys
- Deepstrike on warscroll
- Capture for 3 per model
- 3+ save/3 wounds
The only problem for me is that they are kinda expensive at 230.
13 points a wound on a 3+ is not bad though
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26 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:
I agree with the points made by @Mutton I would also add strike first on the charge.
I also find the engagement range of 1 inche in 40k better (instead of 3 inches in aos), I don't like checking up all the time the 3' space between units non in combat, I also don't like the possibility to fail a charge at a very short range and 40k fix that imo
I have never really understood the reasoning behind the concept of failing or succeeding a charge in a wargame like Warhammer. I can understand that you can lose the momentum in a battle because of various factors (bad terrains, pikes, shooting...) and lose the effect of a charge, however you still end up in combat with your enemies by moving towards them.
I would really hate strike first on the charge. It would massively weaken strike first as a mechanic and also really push alpha strike lists. At the moment you need to choose where and when to engage, strike first on the charge is a big push to just always swinging in with combat capable units. I'm in favour of more conditional strike first, and units being able to combination attack, but not just blanket strike first.
Failing a charge would be failing to organise enough to advance as a group in battle ready formation I guess, which is why it is easier the closer you are, stuff like musicians make it easier etc. Its a game choice to have your unit not advance at all as opposed to charging with some kind of penalty, or lost models or whatnot.
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4 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:
I'm really interested in seeing how they handle Stormcast going forward. After the middling response to the initial models, I don't think GW had a lot of time to pivot their design direction in time for 2e; the Sacrosanct feel like a natural expansion rather than a redesign. But 3e and the Thunderstrike models almost feel like a complete reboot, and many of those models feel more like replacements instead of additions (Vindictors and Liberators, Annihilators and the other Paladins, etc.)
I've heard some rumors that older units like Liberators are getting new models for 4e, which I initially thought was absurd until I remembered that it would be nine years since they had been released, and given GW's design-to-release timeline, by the time we get to 4e they could have been in-development eleven to twelve years ago. I don't think there's any scenario where they drop them entirely (at least, not for another twenty years) but the roster bloat is real and I don't see a way they can diversify some of these units when there are so many trying to fill the same battlefield roles.
I think the best case for players would be to condense warscrolls and merge some of the Stormcast options. We already haven redeemers as a group name for Vindictors, Sequitors and Liberators. Merge the warscrolls, discontinue the oldest option and let people run them if they like the models, like how you can run phoenix guard as black guard.
You can do the same for Paladins, maybe keep shield armed ones as a separate sheet, but otherwise it's just the same.
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4 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:
Yeah thats the idea. Still need to skills to actually pull it off XD. Could also use the 3 as gore grunta proxies. Dont know how much the size difference is between the thunderwolves/guntad/gnashtoofs.
Thunder wolf Cav is on 60 round. Gore Gruntas are 90 by 52 oval. Gnashtoof is on 105 by 70 oval.
I did always think that the existence of the great gnashtoof very much pointed to the existence of the regular gnashtoof, still hoping that gets a model at some point.
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1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:
If using a more combined arms force, what would the best chunk of Dark Aelves be to include with a Steam Tank Company (Comm. w 3 tanks, Warforger) and Cavalier entourage (Marshal/5 horsies)? At first I'm thinking 20 Black Guard and a Sorceress, but now I'm wondering about a bunch of skirmishing Corsairs and a Dreadlord and Fleetmaster?
Trying to get my first real Cities game in next week.
How many points we we looking at?
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3 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
Quite interesting article. Turns out there's even more unexplored potential in the BT that we haven't talked about.
https://plasticcraic.blog/2023/09/18/cities-of-sigmar-crunching-the-rules/Too bad the article doesn't go into some of our things (Vindicarum/Cavaliers/Corsairs) but there's some real original stuff in here. My favourite is Steelhelm blocks in Hammerhal Ghyra with the brazier of holy flame + deliver rousing speech, it sounds really viable now ! Would you paint 60+ Steelhelms for it though...
Interesting article. I think he might unfortunately be wrong with the interaction between the aelf command trait and the fleet master one. When you are triggering an effect on a role I think the player rolling the dice picks which effect, so the enemy chooses between 1 MW (command trait) or 2 MW (fleet masters 1 to hit), and can pick the single mortal wound rather than the 2.
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2 hours ago, Beliman said:
Not sure if it's overpower.
Thunderers without the option to Fly High and the Khemist/Admiral buff are not a good shooting unit. It's all about that 4+ to shoot again (with AoA or we are going to shoot at 4+ to hit) that will make them really good with Special Weapons.
So, two options: if we don't hit that 4+, we are not going to do any damage. If we succeed with that 4+, our thunderers be toxic for the game.
Rng will decide for you how good this army will be.
What's stopping you buffing the thunderers with Chemists or admirals? You can only bring one unit with each Hauler but transporting a hero with one and a big unit with another seems possible.
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1 hour ago, Snarff said:
What's the policy on Harbingers spoilers now? Are they still to be avoided or can we talk about the contents of that book openly now?
There is a lore spoiler thread I think?
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6 minutes ago, Doko said:
even if we get the win rate of woehammer as you said,idoneth have 48 win rate and fyreslayers also have 48 win rate.
idoneths got reduction in points across the board and even a buff in rules while fyreslayers got 0,0000 buffs.
so dont make sense from win rate or tournaments wins point of view
Their own numbers have fyreslayers outperforming Idoneth, so that's what they buffed. It makes perfect sense for them. You can argue that their own numbers might not be as accurate as woehammers, but those are the numbers that they are going to use, it doesn't make no sense.
My understanding is that GW metawatch uses more small tournaments than Woehammer or Honest Wargamer, with more of a casual focus. I can definitely see something like Fyreslayers doing better in casual games than Deepkin.
Edit: was typing while request to move was posted, my apologies. One thing that is confusing me rumours wise is just what is happening with warcry. It's been a few months since we saw the Kruleboys warband, and we have now seen a total of 4 warbands spoiled with nothing out in what feels like ages.
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13 minutes ago, Chikout said:
Why are you using this data? It says July at the top of the page and it lists number of wins not percentage of wins. The faction with the most 5-0s is not necessarily the best faction. According to Woehammer who seem to have the most up to date stats, Khorne are currently at a perfectly reasonable 52% Win rate. That's pretty close to perfect. Soulblight are on their second round of nerds after round one didn't do enough which is probably why we are seeing a bigger change this time. OBR have seen their strongest build hit but we'll have to see how that turns out.
Generally I think this is a solid update. It hits some shenanigans like the incarnate and teleporting blizzards but that might not prove to be enough.
The most common complaint I'm seeing is that Seraphon escaped without any changes though that seems to be more of an NPE problem than a power problem.
Doko has strong feelings about data and their own feelings on which data to use. That data also doesn't seem to include how many players of each faction are playing. Lumineth is only down there for 3 5-0 and 4 4-1 and is put mid tables. If there were only 7 lumineth players that would be an 83% win rate. Equally if there are 100 lumineth players who won no other games then it's a 6% winrate. We just don't have any information. If you want to use 5-0/4-1 you need to have information about faction play rates.
I was surprised how much seraphon dodged in this update, but I think a decent part of that was that they nerfed the rupture incarnate combo that Seraphon and Tzeench were using, so I kind of get being cautious.
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10 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
So due to one Nagash combo and someone who spikes Spirit Gale everything had to be kicked into the dust. I hate it.
The VloZD was questionable at his first point value, only LoB abused it a lot. Awesome he‘s now even worse fir every other faction.
the same goes for zombies - simply prohibit two reinforcements.
It‘s such a big pile of bs, every single change.
I don’t care about too tables or netlisters I care due to this nonsense making my fun games way less enjoyable.
What is your fun list Jack? How many points did you go up?
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37 minutes ago, Doko said:
i think who makes the balance havent idea about the meta.
this is the actual data of the tournaments with 5 rounds since this gheneral handbook.
so we have as the top to vampires and bonereapers with same stats,what make gw? huge nerfs to vampired with across the board increases in almost entire book and some jokes as 30+ to zombis,delete one spell doing it useless,also kill the legion of nigth teleport blizarf, but meanwhile bonereapers get more buffs than nerfs in points and only a direct nerf to one unit.
in general bonerepeaers get a sligth nerf while vampires have been deleted.
then we have khorne in 3th position and get 0! nerfs but many indirect buffs.
other top 10 armys as slaves or nurgles get many buffs.
then we have the botton armys: fyreslayers who are the botton get 0 buffs,then orcs also get 0 buffs.
this balance dont make any sense,only make bigger the gap betwen the top armys and botton,the top got buffed and only vampires have been deleted while the botton got 0 buffs and the middle tier as idoneths got huge buffs
I don't think there is anyway I'd put Nurgle as top tier right now, and the lists that are performing well are mostly very blightlord based, opening up other options is good. Your table there doesn't seem much like there like other meta results based lists I've seen and looks very focused only on 5-0 and 4-1..that's not all GW (and a lot of players) care about. An army that always goes 3-2 won't win any tournaments but isn't ideal to have with a 60% win rate.
1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:Wow, just wow.
They changed the most fun spell in the game to be utter rubbish. (Spiritgale)
I hate such no sensical updates.
How about they stop making the army worse for everyone so some too tables can level the win rate, and instead change the Subfactions Abilities which are problematic. This update really ruined my evening, it’s absurd.
My understanding is that at least half of the vampire subfactions are doing well, with quite different builds? Seems like vampires might just be overall a bit too good, in which case a 10 to 15% point bump seems reasonable. I hope they don't plummet down the table rankings, but I don't think they will. One problem with spirit gale is just that it effects armies so wildly differently. Some armies are barely effected, other armies are going to be messed up by it. It's also very interactive.
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25 minutes ago, Daylight Sneak said:
I don't quite understand the adamant obsession with racial unifications across the board, especially when they make little sense apart from maybe cutting down the amount of battletomes. In my opinion that is just ruination of identity for the entire premise of the setting from the GA: Order's point of view. There was talk about Duardin unification and souping a some years ago and now it's the same about the Aelves. To me it looks more or less like people just can't accept that Age of Sigmar isn't Warhammer Fantasy anymore.
I think some of it is that it can turn limited factions into more indepth factions.
Take Gloomspite Gits. If you want to go trog heavy you can, and there are rewards, but if you end up getting bored of just trolls you can branch out, get some squigs, or goblins or spiders. You don't need to start w completely new army. I suspect a lot of primarily trog players wouldn't have started if they knew the army could only ever be trogs.
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5 minutes ago, Matrindur said:
I felt the same way about the endless spells. In the first half every faction got theirs but in the latter half that kinda fell off. I wonder if GW started designing the Incarnates at that time and because the Endless spells didn't go as they wanted they also stopped designing more Incarnates?
They've been pretty actively balancing and changing the endless spells. I think they might have just decided that they had enough? I think the incarnate turns out to be too powerful for what they were intending and it made them cautious about new ones.
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4 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:
I had been coming closer and closer to making Big Waaagh the next army I assemble, but I think that's probably dead now, sadly. And ironically enough, the super-cool revamped Ironjawz are what killed it. I was already having a ton of trouble fitting lists together before them, and even if I don't take any of the new stuff, the change to Ardboyz removes any chance of cheap battleline. Going from an 80 point minimum in old Ardboyz to 140 point minimum with Brutes is pretty rough. Some of this is self-inflicted, because I want to include a Maw-Krusha in the list just for the model. Still it's disheartening.
I might be wrong, but I think one unit of gutrippas, 1 unit of hob grots and a unit of brutes is the cheapest. Works out as 370, or effectively 123.3 per battle line choice. I don't know if the 50 points you save is worth it, but if it was tight.
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2 hours ago, Gorthor21 said:
I really like this. They used big portable shields with their firearms to protect fro arrows so I could see this being an awesome looking unit if you manage to get them to base up right. Have they changed the rules about basing and I didn’t know?
I think the fancy shield is called a Pavise, which I think is neat.
The rule for basing is (as far as I can remember) that it should be the same size as the bases that come in the box. This one is a bit of a cluster frag honestly since they've changed base size with the same models sometimes. Nurgle piper came on a 40 but nurgle base size list says 32. I think the Warden King used be on a 25 and is now on a 32 etc.
You should try and do this if you can, since base size can make quite a difference (25s being able to fight in 2 ranks for 1" range, or 3 ranks for 2"), and has a big influence on how much space the unit as a whole takes up, a little under 60% more space for a unit on 32s than 25s. It also makes a massive difference for coherency.
Particularly if you are proxying, matching base size is a big one.
Those Fusiliers look awesome Myrdin, hope you find out soon! From looking at Fusiliers I think they are on 32s, since they are visually distinct enough from the human characters that I don't think they'll feel the need to put them on 28s. I've not had a go working out from the photographs though.
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14 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:
Wait where does that "FS mini wave rumour" comes from ? Kurnothi we know because Whitefang, but FS ? Apart from vague Whitefang reacts that FS where somewhere in the pipeline. Elarin or WF said some things about FS recently that I don't know about ?
I thought it was the harbinger thing, the grimhold exile being one of them. The other reason is that FS are one of the 1st edition mini factions, and with FEC getting some kind of update, and rumours of Slyvaneth getting something as well.
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9 hours ago, Doko said:
i am not a fan of the female models of gw(they are more men than girl) and so i dont like these two female dwarfs.
but the minidroth is cute and the male models without the ass visible finally are great.
i hope they are playable
I think it's really good that female dwarfs look muscular and burly, I really don't like the world of warcraft approach where the males of a each species look distinct and the female version are just the human female with a slight colour change and maybe horns or cloven feet.
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AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
I think you are looking for stuff that does unusual stuff and doesn't depend on orders or unique magic.
The command corps being able to stop commands is situationally very powerful, and the command corps are pretty cheap per wound. Keeping the spy and sawbones alive til last let's you keep stopping command traits and the unit can heal itself back up (it's not amazing at it, since you only expect about one model a turn, but it can spike).
The khharibys (spelling is definitely wrong) is a relatively cheap monster that messes with the opponents morale.
I don't think Dark Riders are good, but if the points drop slightly they also are a fast unit that messes with command points.
I could also see some armies wanting to take scourgerunner chariots. 80 points for a fast shooting chariot.
Some other stuff starts to bump up against the ally points limit, you can almost get a unit of drakespawn and 3 drakespawn chariots but end up 10 over.