obmik1
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Posts posted by obmik1
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29 minutes ago, TheTaintedSpud said:
Been tweaking my list. The idea is a fluffy, but still decent mortal list.
Cult Of Personality
Allegiance: Tzeentch - Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult
LEADERS
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - Lore of Fate : Infusion Arcanum
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) - Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future
The Changeling (140) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150) - Lore of Fate : Arcane Suggestion
Lord of Change (380) - General - Command Trait : Shrouded in Unnatural Flame - Artefact : Chainfire Amulet - Lore of Change : Fold RealityUNITS
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
The plan is to have the the Gaunt Summoner pop in some Pink Horrors. The Acolytes hang back on backfield objects to fling fireballs and cast their spell. The Tzaangors and Enlightened push forward, boltered by the heroes,all the while casting and summoning as much as possible.I like the premise. Just a few things I would consider. Why pyrofane with knits of 10 acolytes? Duplicitous would give the loc a great trait and artifact, and the host ability is strong.
Tzaangor shamen is weak sauce really. A better fit to support the tzaangor would be a fatemaster. But then you've got two ca's competing for competing for your points.
The list lacks rerolls for casting. Blue scribes imo are pretty much mandatory in a tzeentch list. For its points that warscroll is probably the best in the book. Full of flavour and awesome abilities. But not bent.
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14 minutes ago, iogaa said:
How viable would a combined arcanite/daemon force be? (Or arcanite/mortals)
I hate how little diversity a list has if it only uses either
I was thinking about taking two acolytes and one tzaangor unit for battlelines, with some enlightened, screamers and flamers.
I guess the only coven that would really help is the Cult of the Transient Form, but it wouldn't be that useful.
Maybe a skyshoal coven in host arcanum? Screamer battleline with tzaangor disk support? Could be fun.
I run mixed lists all the time. I do well in my local gaming group, but would probably not do so well at an event so it depends on your definition of viable.
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1 hour ago, MitGas said:
I got an interesting rule question I think: the soulsnare shackles mess with movement, halving it on a 3+... now let's say I play against Ironjawz who get extra movement in multiple phases with all their units (like when one of their units gets shot at or I use a spell on them, they are allowed to move that unit further towards me - that could easily result in 2d6 extra inches a turn)... wouldn't the shackles be the best spell ever against them, effectively crippling a horribly scary sounding rule? Or are the shackles truly only usable in the movement round... I feel like GW didn't think of that in the warscroll (which is fine seeing as the IJ battletome came way later).
Else the only thing I can think about is shooting a select few units so that they move closer and closer and be easily killable before the rest of those green raging idiots come charging in and kill my sweet, noble and terribly cute minions...
Soul snare shackles triggers in the movement phase, lasts until the end of that phase, and halves the movement characteristic. So potentially you could trigger it on a 6, say on some ardboyz. The ardboyz would then only get to move 2.5 inches, but they would also get to move a full d6...
What I'm saying is shackles has 0 effect on the d6 movement from taking damage.
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10 minutes ago, Firefrog said:
Seraphon has exactly the same issues and strenghts as us, and I'm quite sure they're more broken than Changehost ever was.
Both have the issue that they have low cost shooting that need buffs to shine, however in the case of Seraphon they are much tankier and cost less points. If they'd increase the point value of flamers it wouldn't do the warscroll justice. I could see a point increase on pink horrors, 50 wounds is nothing to shrug off. However, 50 wounds with the current meta is nothing with such a low save.
I'd rather see them buff the other half of the book, the "friendly" stuff. Because currently the way I see it, only the daemon side is worth the points and by Tzeentch I do love me some Kairic Acolytes!
Agreed. Although seraphon are unlikely to be touched this ghb, I would imagine this had gone to print before or as the seraphon book was dropped. We'll have to wait until christmas for those changes.
Totally agree with buffing the mortal side. And I dont think 20 points on flamers, pinks, and exalted flamers will kill them, but it will make it harder to produce a changehost, and it's the battallion that truly makes those things scary.
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16 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
I don't agry about that: horrors are fine: they quicly lose on fight. They don't do much more that shaff. Bataillion, dunno.
What make the horrors so in despise is the gaund wich will probably go up by 20 , not more I think.
I think that 20 is a bit high. Some will go -10 (kai/tz/HQ ), few -20 (sky/LoC/kairos) to make a heavy tzaang chicken army (like I'd like). (Probably one of the most beautiful in DoT).
But I expect a large discount on max unit.
I totally agree with what you're saying about horrors. I don't think they need to go up either, but they will. The issue is they're going to try and balance the book around changehost. Instead of balancing changehost. Which is what worries me.
The points increases I think will happen. Maybe even higher than what I suggested. But I don't think anything in our book will come down. The tzaangor stuff has needed a reduction for a long time.
The reason I've suggested 20 points is because most points adjustments are done in 20s.
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1 minute ago, GeneralZero said:
LoC/Kairos , tzaangors , enlighten/skyfire, kairic , spawn are a bit high. Emphasis on "a bit". Just need a little adjustment. But 10pts here and there and you get another unit somewhere that make the difference.
Gaunt will probably see a slight up.
dunno for the others.
This. Loc/kairos, tzaangor, skyfires and enlightened all down 20 points.
And then more than likely. Pinks, flamers, exalted flamers, changehost battallion up 20.
Gaunts up 40.
Personally I think this will leave is in a good place and people could stop hating on us. I think that's a dream world though. The fearmonger in me things we will be taken out back behind the shed and put down.
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So, I'm trying to build an isolation list that is
A. Ghb proof to some extent,
B. Not horrible to play against for opponents #friendlytzeentch
C. Can win games
So that I can get it all painted up. I've already started my painting obviously but most of what I have painted fits into the list anyway.
So next the reason I think its ghb proof, most everything in the list, I believe, will not go up in points; Excluding the gaunt summoner, and the darkfire daemonrift.
- I have 120 points of redundancy in the list I think, the 20 man acolytes squad can drop to 10 man, and the gaunt on disk can be a gaunt on foot. And the darkfire daemon rift can be traded for geminids, which means I still have a valuable tool, it just does a different job.
So what do you think? If I get this painted up will I still be in a decent place come next ghb? Think its solid enough to take on some of the big boyz? Once iso is all over and the tournement season starts up, however that looks, I'm hoping to get out there and go to an event, for funsies. 👍
Thanks
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Anyone had any experience with the new blades of khorne? They have allot of anti magic capabilities now. Are they a hard counter to us? What about the hexgorger skulls?
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1 hour ago, xanderhansen said:
It was me that won the tournament in Denmark, I'm gonna make a battledeport in Danish that I can link to (a crazy language), but here is my list.
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (120)
Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105I can make a small writeup about the games later, and fell free to ask about anything 😉
Looking forward to reading a write up for your games.
Why did you choose ogroid over perhaps a shamen?
Why did you choose the thermalrider cloak? I assume the gaunt was on balewind?
Why did you choose witchfyre coven with only 2x10 acolytes?
How did summoning go for you?
How many people went to the tournament and sort of competition did you face?
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2 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:
If you look a the latest faq for gaunt summoner, and specifically the ability change for his summon demons. I would put money on some sort of 'realmgate' being our scenery piece along with endless spells.
That would be incredible but can you imagine the points increase on him? If every game he bought a 200 point unit to the board? Then again. Flesh eaters do it. So maybe?
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I agree with everything averageboss and Asimov have said. I honestly think we'll just see points changes though.
I just want all the endless spells and terrain features! Well of eternity for a terrain feature or summoned spell? Things that give us bonuses to casting? Deffo want a force multiplier. Yum yum.
Force multipliers that effect the mortal and arcanites spell casters making them more viable....
And a book that actually means something. Not the thing I currently have.
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2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:
I have found change-host be be a solid option. The battalion ability is a complete game changer and lots of the demon unit are under rated. Not going to be wiping out other armies but they are amazing at objectives.
How do you feel about the limited number of units we can field? Once those units in the battalion are destroyed you lose the benefit. Units summoned do not gain the benefit. And the one thing horrors are good at is dying(Not saying that's a bad thing). The battallion list doesn't do anything else either because of the points investment. So all you have is chaff, chaff shooting and magic. No combat, which happens up to 10 phases in a game.
Not trying to poo poo change host here, actually I'm hoping you can convince me it's worth the monitary investment because I'd love to run a list like that, but I'd also like to win games.
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30 minutes ago, Asimov said:
This!
I did not buy any because of this. And if they don't get a new kit with the battletome. I will look for other minis manufacturerI really just want to run acolytes as marauders, which I don't think is too farfetched. And my friends wouldn't mind this. But the fact that the base size is different bothers me to know end.
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4 minutes ago, MitGas said:
Thanks for the answer - I don't see the extra spell on the online warscroll of the BWV but that is probably outdated. Either way, a Gaunt with three spells is amazing. The guy (and the LoC, though he's so damn expensive at almost 400 points...) is the one character that always does his job.
Loc is also strong. Together they work well. My 2k list at the moment runs them both with blue scribes and pink horrors. I'm seeing some success. Trying to get back into after a 6 month hiatus.
Just now, Asimov said:I really hope your wrong, because I bet the other way ^^
I think the marauders are gonna get revamped and the chaos warrios may stay the same. I got the big StD battlebox already 😛
Maybe what would content us both is if they redo both sets...Honestly, if love the the rules/points to stay the same as far as marauders go, but I'd really like them to get a new kit, those models are bleurgh.
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1 hour ago, Paniere said:
Since my plea for help fell unheard , I'm changing the question: which units do you recommend as mandatory BOTH for 1k and 2k list? Looking forward to expand my actual pieces above with anything that could be used for 1k matches for a start but that won't be put apart in larger battles. Thanks all in advance
Gaunt Summoner is probably the first thing that springs to everyone's mind. Probably fits into every list, one of the strongest units in the tzeentch book.
3 hours ago, Asimov said:3 units of Pinks is maybe too much indeed. 1-2 are a good amount to benefit of the extra summoning. For the 3rd battle line a good tanky unit is definitly not a bad choice.
The Chaos Warriors are indeed good tanks. Tzaangors last not as long but have a stronger impact.
Marrauders are numerous but that's it, a good anti hord capacity and they shrink fast. The kairic are really just a bit better than marrauders but not worth taking in big units, just MSU to hold objectives or take a charge instead of your expensive units.I found having Enligthened waiting just behind a cheap unit is great as they get the reroll bonus to be in combat but not having taken any hit, they even get more pile in options once the screen unit lost some bodies. This requires a good placement though.
My only issue with chaos warriors and marauders is that darkoath is on the horizon and the models/rules may become obsolete. Marauders fit into my list so well! I have to be careful how I spend my money! I deffo want bodies though.
15 minutes ago, MitGas said:Sorry for troubling you but how do you get the GS to cast 3 spells a turn? That would be truly awesome...
Gaunt summoner on balewind vortex gives you an extra 6" range and 1 extra spell per turn. Couple with arcane sacrifice for another 9" range and reroll failed casting. Combined with pink horrors, super strong.
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7 hours ago, Asimov said:
Tzaangors are pretty good. Nice tanking and nice swing.
I find horrors to do the job nevertheless. Proactively killing your pinks provide a nice screen of blues that can suck up charges and buy you a turn or two to cast as many spells as you can.My main issue with just using pinks, as I am now, 3 u it's as my battle line. Is that I struggle to cap objectives with summoning. I feel a nice big block will provide me an opening screen from alpha and later provide bodies that can get into combat potentially to claim objectives.
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2 minutes ago, MrRoff said:
But the "latest" DoT battletome has the wrong pooint values for battalions
Generals handbook is a different book. It contains all the points for all the armies as well as other bits like battle plans and allegiances. The current book is generals handbook 2018
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1 hour ago, Deadkitten said:
Chaos Chosen? They seem pretty comparable:
5 Chosen for 3 A = 15 @ 3+/3+/-1/1 = 4.5 against a 4+ save
3 Enlightened for 3 A = 9 @ 4+/3+/-1/2 = 3.0 against a 4+ Save; and beaks 1A = 3 @ 4+/5+/-/1 = .5 for a total of 4.5 virtually identical.
Chosen are a tad cheaper with the 4+ save vs the 5+ and have an extra W. Might not get all the Chosen in base to base and the Enlightened have the better reach at 2". Again, Chosen seem to be filling the same role, but your overall point is well taken and was the first big weakness I looked to solve. I have a hobby idea for the Chosen, FWIW.
I think I'm at change the first Herald to the Curseling, Drop the second, upgrade the Brims to Blues and add an Endless spell. Prob Gravetide that can also gum up movement. Need to run numbers and look at spells.
Enlightened also have disc attacks, move 16 inches and can be effected by fold reality and if striking second all the rerolls. Overall the enlightened definitely win over chosen.
Might I suggest blue scribes instead of the second Herald. He's a great force multiplier and has some other awesome rules to boot. And again. A 16 inch move.
Edit: I may also consider dropping the brimstone. That would give you the 80 points needed for a balewind and aethervoid pendulum.
Make the gaunt your general and give him arcane sacrifice on the balewind he has an impressive 3 spells at 33" and also kills d3 pinks or blues to farm points for summoning.
And use the pendulum against your pinks to also farm points for summoning.
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1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:
I cant see sky fires changing in price at all to be honest, they are appropriately pointed. But i totally agree the enlightened will go up , back to 160 is the most probable. I honestly don't think you need a big block of acolytes, they are chaff and do chaff well, knock it down to 10 and put the blue scribes in and your not far off what I run.
6 enlightened wouldn't go amiss In your list, 9 is nice but overkill in most situations. (Subjective choice!)
The list needs bodies in my opinion. They are chaff. But they are body's, wounds. Body's win games... hopefully. That's why marauders would be so ideal, cheapest body's we can field. Ideal for the job. But I don't want to go out and buy them for the unit to change and get new models.
I would like to try tzaangors again, but I think that changes the list too much and will cost too much £££
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9 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:
Imo you want one more hero that’s fast , makes dropping your blues around the table much easier to achieve. Blues win games ! 😁
Yeah, originally I had the blue scribes in the list. But finding 100 points for the karic acolytes is difficult. I could purchase some enlightened but I imagine theyll go up in points in ghb19. And with a bit of luck skyfires will come down some! Plus the shooting is great.
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30 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:
Hey all. Looking at maybe running DoT as a new army. I know Multitudinous Host isn't as good as it was but is it still doable? I was thinking of maybe just running a similar list but without the Battalion. The list seems fragile without some sort of anchor piece like 15-20 Chaos Warriors/Enlightened. Thoughts?
I've been running 3 units of pinks as my battle line. In smaller games where that's all I've had along with heroes I've managed to pull some victories off but it needs something more. In the larger games I've been fielding 9 skyfires which has been successful. I've come to the same conclusion as you in that it needs more bodies on the board. Although choosing that unit has been difficult. Marauders would full the roll perfectly but o suspect they'll be obsolete models and rules in the not to distant future.
My own question, is 2 heroes in a list enough? I have limited resources and try to build a 2k that I can play against everyone and in every scenario. I'm fine with proxing some games to get a feel. I have the majority of models i need already excluding my big block.
This is what I'm thinking:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
Lord of Change (380)
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
40 x Kairic Acolytes (300)
Units
9 x Tzaangor Skyfires (600)
Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
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9 minutes ago, MrRoff said:
Quick weird question about the fold reality spell.
If i summon a full unit of chaos spawn 6x and 2 of them dies, and then i summon 2 more to the unit so it's full again.
And then use fold reality:
Fold Reality has a casting value of 7. Ifsuccessfullycast, pick a visible friendly unit of TZEENTCH DAEMONSwithin 18" of the caster and roll a dice. On a roll of 2 or more, you can return that many slain models to the unit. On a roll of 1, the unit is wiped out!
Can i then bring back the 2 slained models to the chaos spawn unit so it exceeds the total unit size of6, so now it's 8 in the unit, but the unit limit is 6?
Chaos spawn don't have the daemon key word so fold reality doesn't work on them.
I also don't believe that fold reality can take a unit beyond its starting models no matter what but I could be wrong.
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What are people's thoughts on the blue scribes? He's an auto include just for his own spell but late game he tends to go out and claim objectives and win games. He's got so many cool rules it's a shame they can't all be used at once. I haven't seen them in many lists on here or anywhere else for that matter.
I also tend to use wellspring of arcane might for redundancy.
Thoughts?
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I've got two 1.25k lists here. The top one I have played twice for 1/0/1. I'm very happy with the way it chaffs up the board summoning 1190 points and 1020 points of models over the two games I played.
The problem is that the spell casting is not very consistent and I don't like the amount of points tied up in endless spells. In my last game against Ironjawz I lost at the top of t3 because I couldn't remove a wizard from the objective. My opponent had 6 models on the board and I had only lost 1 unit of pink horrors to a rogue fold reality.
I'm worried that losing a unit of pinks in the second list will hurt it too much. Overall it's got less spells to cast but more consistent damage I believe. What do y'all think?
Leaders
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
The Blue Scribes (140)
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (140)
- Staff of Change
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 1240 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 45
Leaders
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
The Blue Scribes (140)
Lord of Change (380)
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 44
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Awesome to read about your success, and to listen to them talk about your list earlier today. Kairos + belakor in hoat D seems like an awesome control deck.
I also love brand of the spirit daemon on the manticore.
Interested to hear your ideas for host arcanum? I've been playing with the kairos+chost list that is being touted around the net, having allot of fun, another tricky control deck.